NVIDIA winning against Samsung in court!

[mr moose]

Oh no, a court has decided the issues Nvidia have taken to court are legitimate and can go to trial.   Everyone must be an nvidia fanboy. :rolleyes:

 

Please, some of the arguments in this thread are just laughable.  You guys couldn't put your emotional bias aside to even read the OP properly, Let alone understand why this case is going ahead.  You all think you understand but clearly you don't.

 

Anyone not blinkered can see a few conditions here that clearly make the case legitimate:

 

Nvidia hasn't sued before - so clearly not patent trolls (even though the AMD fanboys are too stupid to get that)

Intel are paying nvidia for this same IP - so the IP is legit both in precedent and by court approval

Samsung actually physically make the chips and uses them in their phones - if they don't pay for the IP then it is a legit claim from Nvidia.

 

I don't care what company you hate or prefer, the irrational behaviour is getting tiring, the last thread about this went on for ages, and even with the original court filings linked people still ignore the facts and just made shit up. .

[LAwLz]

Best of luck to them. 

 

Hopefully Samsung will have finally had enough of the court spamming after this. 

 

Thanks for sharing. 

I hope you realize that Samsung are not the ones who start the fights. They are being bombarded left and right with lawsuits and they are merely defending themselves.

Blaming Samsung for this is like saying "wow I can't believe guy X hit guy Y. All guy Y was doing was throwing rocks at him. Why the hell would he fight back?"

 

The lawsuit is stupid anyway. They are suing Samsung for using an architecture ARM developed and sold them.

I hope people realize that if Nvidia wins, they could sue HTC, Apple, LG, Sony, Sharp, Huawei or any other smartphone manufacturer.

[mr moose]

I hope you realize that Samsung are not the ones who start the fights. They are being bombarded left and right with lawsuits and they are merely defending themselves.

Blaming Samsung for this is like saying "wow I can't believe guy X hit guy Y. All guy Y was doing was throwing rocks at him. Why the hell would he fight back?"

 

The lawsuit is stupid anyway. They are suing Samsung for using an architecture ARM developed and sold them.

I hope people realize that if Nvidia wins, they could sue HTC, Apple, LG, Sony, Sharp, Huawei or any other smartphone manufacturer.

 

No, they are being sued because they are using nvidia IP without license,  where they got it from is irrelevant.  

[spartaman64]

im sort of hoping that nvidia loses this because im pretty sure they are suing qualcomm also even if nvidia's claims are legit it could be very bad for the mobile market but hey then again fiat justitia ruat caelum 

[LAwLz]

No, they are being sued because they are using nvidia IP without license,  where they got it from is irrelevant.  

I disagree. Again, if you come to that conclusion then NCIX should also be sued since they are profitting from selling Samsung's devices, which includes "stolen" technology.

It is the exact same reasoning as Nvidia is using. In fact, by the exact same logic Samsung can use everyone who uses Nvidia GPUs (including Velocity Micro). See how ridiculously this quickly becomes?

 

 

 

 

im sort of hoping that nvidia loses this because im pretty sure they are suing qualcomm also 

Yes, they are actually suing Samsung because Qualcomm are allegedly infringing on one of their patents.

They are arguing that since Samsung uses Snapdragon chips, and Snapdragon chips include a GPU which infringes on Nvidia's patent, Samsung are guilty of patent infringement too.

[Notional]

Oh no, a court has decided the issues Nvidia have taken to court are legitimate and can go to trial.   Everyone must be an nvidia fanboy. :rolleyes:

 

No one has stated such a thing. However claiming that NVidia is winning, just because a court date and definitions has been set, is quite biased. Remember that OP's source is NVidia by proxy, through anandtech. Can we agree that NVidia is biased on NVidia news?

 

Please, some of the arguments in this thread are just laughable.  You guys couldn't put your emotional bias aside to even read the OP properly, Let alone understand why this case is going ahead.  You all think you understand but clearly you don't.

 

If there are laughable arguments, it should be very easy for you to debunk them, and lecture people on the facts/reality. So far I've only seen fanboys rooting for NVidia, and hating on Samsung, while showing a disturbing lack of knowledge on this case. 

 

Anyone not blinkered can see a few conditions here that clearly make the case legitimate:

 

Nvidia hasn't sued before - so clearly not patent trolls (even though the AMD fanboys are too stupid to get that)

Intel are paying nvidia for this same IP - so the IP is legit both in precedent and by court approval

Samsung actually physically make the chips and uses them in their phones - if they don't pay for the IP then it is a legit claim from Nvidia.

 

What kind of argument is that? So because NVidia hasn't sued or patent trolled before, it means they never can, and that people are fanboys for claiming so? This is clearly a patent troll, using fundamental patents, they never created themselves (see the link I posted with an overview of the patents, NVidia uses to sue).

 

Intel has never been a great innovator in graphics. It comes as no surprise, that they license all the tech they need. That is irrelevant to ARM/QUALCOMM/Samsung's cases.

 

Samsung pays for ARM's IP, that their graphics chips are based on. That is why Samsung says, this is a case between NVidia and ARM.

 

I don't care what company you hate or prefer, the irrational behaviour is getting tiring, the last thread about this went on for ages, and even with the original court filings linked people still ignore the facts and just made shit up. .

 

People are not irrational, because they know more about a matter, or just has a different opinion about it, than you.

[mr moose]

I disagree. Again, if you come to that conclusion then NCIX should also be sued since they are profitting from selling Samsung's devices, which includes "stolen" technology.

It is the exact same reasoning as Nvidia is using. In fact, by the exact same logic Samsung can use everyone who uses Nvidia GPUs (including Velocity Micro). See how ridiculously this quickly becomes?

We've had this debate before, Samsung is the product manufacturer not the retailer.  If the retailer knows they are selling stolen goods then they are guilty just the same.  But in this case it is reasonable to assume any retailer does not know the phone contains stolen IP and as a result may be forced to take said product of the shelf (if it goes that far). 

 

However Samsung cannot say the same, because Nvidia approached them about it long before they took legal action.  Samsung knew the IP was not licensed and chose to keep using it anyway. 

[mr moose]

No one has stated such a thing. However claiming that NVidia is winning, just because a court date and definitions has been set, is quite biased. Remember that OP's source is NVidia by proxy, through anandtech. Can we agree that NVidia is biased on NVidia news?

 

 

If there are laughable arguments, it should be very easy for you to debunk them, and lecture people on the facts/reality. So far I've only seen fanboys rooting for NVidia, and hating on Samsung, while showing a disturbing lack of knowledge on this case. 

 

 

What kind of argument is that? So because NVidia hasn't sued or patent trolled before, it means they never can, and that people are fanboys for claiming so? This is clearly a patent troll, using fundamental patents, they never created themselves (see the link I posted with an overview of the patents, NVidia uses to sue).

 

Intel has never been a great innovator in graphics. It comes as no surprise, that they license all the tech they need. That is irrelevant to ARM/QUALCOMM/Samsung's cases.

 

Samsung pays for ARM's IP, that their graphics chips are based on. That is why Samsung says, this is a case between NVidia and ARM.

 

 

People are not irrational, because they know more about a matter, or just has a different opinion about it, than you.

you don't like nvidia and that's fine, but that doesn't make your opinion right and everyone else a fanboy. 

 

All the claims made in this thread were debunked in the last thread, we are just rehashing the same old arguments now.   

[LegacyStijncat]

 

and samsung sued back, filing a claim against NV and Velocity Micro, a small PC shop that has nothing to do with any of this...

Most hilarious line ever  :lol:

[Misanthrope]

Too bad Samsung can later go

 

-Samsung uses baffling amounts of money for lawsuit

 

It's super effective!

[LAwLz]

We've had this debate before, Samsung is the product manufacturer not the retailer.  If the retailer knows they are selling stolen goods then they are guilty just the same.  But in this case it is reasonable to assume any retailer does not know the phone contains stolen IP and as a result may be forced to take said product of the shelf (if it goes that far). 

 

However Samsung cannot say the same, because Nvidia approached them about it long before they took legal action.  Samsung knew the IP was not licensed and chose to keep using it anyway. 

Okay, so if Nvidia contacted NCIX then it would be totally okay for them to demand a licensing fee? Because if they did that then "we didn't know" would not be a valid argument.

How about carriers? Should they also pay a licensing fee? They make some of the software used on the phones and profits from those modifications. Does the same also apply to third party software on the device (for example keyboard tech licensed from SwiftKey)?

 

Why is it okay for a retailer to profit from "stolen" technology but not the manufacture to do so?

[Notional]

you don't like nvidia and that's fine, but that doesn't make your opinion right and everyone else a fanboy. 

 

All the claims made in this thread were debunked in the last thread, we are just rehashing the same old arguments now.   

 

I don't like NVidia's business strategies. That does not make me a fanboy, nor that I don't like their products. I give credit where credit is due, and I call companies out on bs, when they do bad things.

 

Do you have a link for that thread please? I would love to read it.

[mr moose]

Okay, so if Nvidia contacted NCIX then it would be totally okay for them to demand a licensing fee? Because if they did that then "we didn't know" would not be a valid argument.

How about carriers? Should they also pay a licensing fee? They make some of the software used on the phones and profits from those modifications. Does the same also apply to third party software on the device (for example keyboard tech licensed from SwiftKey)?

 

Why is it okay for a retailer to profit from "stolen" technology but not the manufacture to do so?

 

what?  NCIX are a retailer not a manufacturer.  there is a difference.  Legal responsibility for infringing IP is limited to the infringing company, not the poor guy at the end of he sales chain or the raw material supplier at the start. 

[Frankie]

Why is it okay for a retailer to profit from "stolen" technology but not the manufacture to do so?

 

Manufacturer are the one that pull the trigger on what to use, retailer is just selling the product and they can't possiblity know if something is not up to snuff when they are selling thousand different things. 

[LegacyStijncat]

Just checked on Wikipedia, cause I was interested in what scandals Samsung keeps doing.

Samsung is also involved in:

• Financial scandals: In 2007, former Samsung chief lawyer Kim Yong Chul claimed that he was involved in bribing and fabricating evidence on behalf of the group's chairman Lee Kun-hee and the company.
• Some strange Government stuff: "You can even say the Samsung chairman is more powerful than the President of South Korea".
  Korean people have come to think of Samsung as invincible and above the law.
• Marketing scandals: The case was commenced after the Fair Trade Commission of Taiwan Commission received complaints stating that the agency hired students to attack competitors of Samsung Electronics in online forums.
• Child Labor: Samsung was the subject of several complaints about child labor in its supply chain from 2012 to 2015._(What?)
• Price conspiracies: On October 19, 2011, Samsung was fined EUR 145,727,000 for being part of a price cartel of ten companies for DRAMs which lasted from 1 July 1998 to 15 June 2002.

Yeah I think that Nvidia MIGHT be the good guy here. Might.

 

 

EDIT:

• Price conspiracies part 2: ...however in 2014, the Canadian government reopened the case and investigated silently. Sufficient evidence was found and presented to Samsung and two other manufacturers during a class action lawsuit hearing.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Stijncat

[mr moose]

I don't like NVidia's business strategies. That does not make me a fanboy, nor that I don't like their products. I give credit where credit is due, and I call companies out on bs, when they do bad things.

 

Do you have a link for that thread please? I would love to read it.

 

You called everyone in this thread who doesn't see a problem with the lawsuit a FANBOY, even though I see it has been edited out. you think it's BS and that's fine, you are entitled to your opinion, doesn't make it right though. 

 

I have been looking, all google is returning are the reposts that have been locked.

[Notional]

 

Just checked on Wikipedia, cause I was interested in what scandals Samsung keeps doing.

Samsung is also involved in:

• Financial scandals: In 2007, former Samsung chief lawyer Kim Yong Chul claimed that he was involved in bribing and fabricating evidence on behalf of the group's chairman Lee Kun-hee and the company.
• Some strange Government stuff: "You can even say the Samsung chairman is more powerful than the President of South Korea".

  Korean people have come to think of Samsung as invincible and above the law.

• Marketing scandals: The case was commenced after the Fair Trade Commission of Taiwan Commission received complaints stating that the agency hired students to attack competitors of Samsung Electronics in online forums.
• Child Labor: Samsung was the subject of several complaints about child labor in its supply chain from 2012 to 2015._(What?)
• Price conspiracies: On October 19, 2011, Samsung was fined EUR 145,727,000 for being part of a price cartel of ten companies for DRAMs which lasted from 1 July 1998 to 15 June 2002.

Yeah I think that Nvidia MIGHT be the good guy here. Might.

 

 

EDIT:

• Price conspiracies part 2: ...however in 2014, the Canadian government reopened the case and investigated silently. Sufficient evidence was found and presented to Samsung and two other manufacturers during a class action lawsuit hearing.

 

There are no good guys here per se; they are just companies. But patent trolling is always a bad thing.

 

As for your examples, they really aren't relevant. Samsung was also the company, that was built and entrusted to rebuild south Korea after the Korean war. There make ships and all sorts of stuff, and is currently responsible for 17% of SK's entire GDP. When you deal with such gigantic companies, there will always be issues.

 

Either way, the consequences of NVidia's court suits, is bad for the entire industry.

 

You called everyone in this thread who doesn't see a problem with the lawsuit a FANBOY, even though I see it has been edited out. you think it's BS and that's fine, you are entitled to your opinion, doesn't make it right though. 

 

I have been looking, all google is returning are the reposts that have been locked.

 

Edited out? Are you accusing me of editing out accusations? Because you'd better prove that!

 

I have said it is fanboyism to claim that NVidia is winning, based on this news, and supporting NVidia in this insane case, without even understanding it.

[LAwLz]

what?  NCIX are a retailer not a manufacturer.  there is a difference.  Legal responsibility for infringing IP is limited to the infringing company, not the poor guy at the end of he sales chain or the raw material supplier at the start. 

So how about carriers? How about Global Foundries (or whoever manufacturers Snapdragon chips)?

 

So what you are saying is that Nvidia should get a royalty from Qualcomm for them using their architecture, then from Global Foundries for manufacturing it, then from Samsung and all other smartphone manufacturers for using the chips, and then possibly from the carriers since they are making modifications and selling the device.

 

That sounds insane.

 

 

Edit: and before you say "but they didn't know!", let's assume Nvidia contacted them and asked.

[Dabombinable]

There are no good guys here per se; they are just companies. But patent trolling is always a bad thing.

 

As for your examples, they really aren't relevant. Samsung was also the company, that was built and entrusted to rebuild south Korea after the Korean war. There make ships and all sorts of stuff, and is currently responsible for 17% of SK's entire GDP. When you deal with such gigantic companies, there will always be issues.

 

Either way, the consequences of NVidia's court suits, is bad for the entire industry.

 

 

Edited out? Are you accusing me of editing out accusations? Because you'd better prove that!

 

I have said it is fanboyism to claim that NVidia is winning, based on this news, and supporting NVidia in this insane case, without even understanding it.

Look, Nvidia isn't patent trolling, considering Intel actually has paid for the right to actually use the IP that Samsung has been using without going through all of the correct procedures, and despite being approached about it before the lawsuit started.

[mr moose]

I have said it is fanboyism to claim that NVidia is winning, based on this news, and supporting NVidia in this insane case, without even understanding it.

 

Exactly.

 

 

So how about carriers? How about Global Foundries (or whoever manufacturers Snapdragon chips)?

 

So what you are saying is that Nvidia should get a royalty from Qualcomm for them using their architecture, then from Global Foundries for manufacturing it, then from Samsung and all other smartphone manufacturers for using the chips, and then possibly from the carriers since they are making modifications and selling the device.

 

That sounds insane.

 

 

Edit: and before you say "but they didn't know!", let's assume Nvidia contacted them and asked.

the whoever that manufactures some of the snapdragon ships is Samsung, TMSC (who couldn't keep up) and UMC.

 

carriers who sell are no different than retailers.  just because they stick their logo on it and customize the rom a bit doesn't make them a product manufacturer in the same class as samsung.   I am not saying nvidia can double dip,  they should get the royalties only once,  who said they want to double dip?

 

I have seen no evidence or insinuation that Nvidia want royalties from every entity along the production chain. 

[mr moose]

 

Just checked on Wikipedia, cause I was interested in what scandals Samsung keeps doing.

Samsung is also involved in:

• Financial scandals: In 2007, former Samsung chief lawyer Kim Yong Chul claimed that he was involved in bribing and fabricating evidence on behalf of the group's chairman Lee Kun-hee and the company.
• Some strange Government stuff: "You can even say the Samsung chairman is more powerful than the President of South Korea".

  Korean people have come to think of Samsung as invincible and above the law.

• Marketing scandals: The case was commenced after the Fair Trade Commission of Taiwan Commission received complaints stating that the agency hired students to attack competitors of Samsung Electronics in online forums.
• Child Labor: Samsung was the subject of several complaints about child labor in its supply chain from 2012 to 2015._(What?)
• Price conspiracies: On October 19, 2011, Samsung was fined EUR 145,727,000 for being part of a price cartel of ten companies for DRAMs which lasted from 1 July 1998 to 15 June 2002.

Yeah I think that Nvidia MIGHT be the good guy here. Might.

 

 

EDIT:

• Price conspiracies part 2: ...however in 2014, the Canadian government reopened the case and investigated silently. Sufficient evidence was found and presented to Samsung and two other manufacturers during a class action lawsuit hearing.

 

 

Except this isn't a competition about who is the worst company, truth is they are all bad.  Only fanboys want one company to win over another because of some misconception that their favorite company is somehow morally superior.

[LAwLz]

who said they want to double dip?

Nvidia themselves. It is because they are trying to double dip that I am against it. If it was just ARM, Imagination and Qualcomm having to pay licensing fees then sure, go ahead.

The problem I got is that Samsung is being dragged in too. Samsung actually responded with something along the lines of "you'll have to ask Qualcomm and ARM for your licensing fee money" and Nvidia went "nope, we want money from you too". That is the entire reason why Samsung is included in the lawsuit.

That is why both Samsung and Qualcomm are being used.

 

The fact that they aren't suing ARM (but they are suing Samsung for using ARM's GPU) is also undeniable proof that they want to double dip.

 

 

I have seen no evidence or insinuation that Nvidia want royalties from every entity along the production chain. 

I think it's bad enough they want from 2 companies in the chain, and has the potential (if they win) to demand licensing fees from 3 or maybe even more. It is a horrible, horrible thing if they win. Not only is it horrible, but it could open up the possibility for a truckload of other nasty lawsuits from other companies.

 

If company 1 licensing your technology then company 2 or 3 shouldn't have to pay the same fee.

 

 

The fact that people are getting pissed at Samsung for suing Velocity Micro shows that people are either Samsung haters/Nvidia fanboys, or don't understand the lawsuit, because Samsung are using the same reasoning as Nvidia.

[Notional]

The fact that people are getting pissed at Samsung for suing Velocity Micro shows that people are either Samsung haters/Nvidia fanboys, or don't understand the lawsuit, because Samsung are using the same reasoning as Nvidia.

 

Indeed, but also to have the court case in Virginia, which are much faster, to deal with these cases, it seems.

 

This article is really interesting about the counter suit, showing how far into the deep end, NVidia put themselves. Using fundamental patents to sue, is almost always patent trolling (although that term, does not have a proper definition). NVidia's greed is too much, and they will be punished for this. Have fun, not using cache in the GPU's. This is all just dumb.

 

http://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/anton-shilov/samsung-vs-nvidia-and-velocity-micro-a-deeper-look/

 

---

 

Addendum: This case, is also why we will never see Samsung Gsync monitors.

[mr moose]

Nvidia themselves. It is because they are trying to double dip that I am against it. If it was just ARM, Imagination and Qualcomm having to pay licensing fees then sure, go ahead.

The problem I got is that Samsung is being dragged in too. Samsung actually responded with something along the lines of "you'll have to ask Qualcomm and ARM for your licensing fee money" and Nvidia went "nope, we want money from you too". That is the entire reason why Samsung is included in the lawsuit.

That is why both Samsung and Qualcomm are being used.

 

The fact that they aren't suing ARM (but they are suing Samsung for using ARM's GPU) is also undeniable proof that they want to double dip.

 

 

I think it's bad enough they want from 2 companies in the chain, and has the potential (if they win) to demand licensing fees from 3 or maybe even more. It is a horrible, horrible thing if they win. Not only is it horrible, but it could open up the possibility for a truckload of other nasty lawsuits from other companies.

 

If company 1 licensing your technology then company 2 or 3 shouldn't have to pay the same fee.

 

 

The fact that people are getting pissed at Samsung for suing Velocity Micro shows that people are either Samsung haters/Nvidia fanboys, or don't understand the lawsuit, because Samsung are using the same reasoning as Nvidia.

 

When I read the original filing, it laid out that they were suing Samsung for manufacturing and selling products containing their IP.  If the products Samsung manufacture or purchase had already had the royalties paid by qualcomm, then we wouldn't see Samsung in this.  But because Samsung is actually making the chips not just buying them, they are as much as guilty as qualcomm (in nvidias eyes).      Samsung can buy IP from qualcomm. but that doesn't include Nvidias IP and as such the second they manufacture a product using IP they don't have rights to they are guilty.   This doesn't sound like they want royalties from both companies for the same end product, but that neither are paying royalties at all and Samsung isn't qualcomms only customer.

[Yoinkerman]

What?  An american company winning against a Korean one in American courts?  No way!