NVIDIA winning against Samsung in court!

[LukaP]

Yes I did. Did you? Look at the thread title, then read the actual source. And read mine. The court date isn't even until June, but somehow NVidia has won it? Come on. Ironically, NVidia actually lost their claim to move the counter suit to their location of desire (Which Luka actually mentioned).

 

This is a bad case, and NVidia fanboys are liking it in droves (just look at the posts on this thread), yet seems to have little to no knowledge on what it is about. Even worse, they criticize Samsung for all of this. Samsung has done nothing in this case, but protect themselves, yet they are portrayed as the bad guys? Instead of just automatically going on NVidia's side, how about actually reading up on this case, and what lead up to it? You'd be so much more knowledgeable, and understand the consequences of NVidia's bully methods.

1. It says winning, not won. And if you would read the actual article thats what it says there. This is a good premise for the actual court ruling
2. I said this was a Markman hearing
3. How is NV the bad guy in your view. They had IP. Samsung used IP without NV's consent. NV sues for unlawful use of patented IP.

[TERAFLOP]

This topic is horribly misleading. Samsung AND Qualcomm which is also involved in this did not use any of Nvidia's IP. Nvidia is suing Samsung over fundamental graphics building blocks necessary for any GPU, including AMD's ARM's and Intel's GPUs.  This is the worst kind of patent trolling.

This is from Nvidia's official website !

Those patents include our foundational invention, the GPU, which puts onto a single chip all the functions necessary to process graphics and light up screens; our invention of programmable shading, which allows non-experts to program sophisticated graphics; our invention of unified shaders, which allow every processing unit in the GPU to be used for different purposes; and our invention of multithreaded parallel processing in GPUs, which enables processing to occur concurrently on separate threads while accessing the same memory and other resources.

http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/09/04/nvidia-launches-patent-suits/

Nvidia invented NONE of these, these are industry standard fundamental graphics building blocks. They're basically suing Samsung and Qualcomm for building any sort of graphics processor at all ! In fact by this logic AMD can sue Nvidia for the exact same things, since AMD's graphics division which is based on ATi was founded 7 years before Nvidia's inception. That's seven long years of patent filings for fundamental graphics IP. It's like claiming to have patented the letter N in the English language and then suing Samsung and Qualcomm specifically for using it.

There's something deeply disturbing about what Nvidia is doing and people need to know the facts.

[Notional]

Patent trolling? This is the first time in 21 years that NVIDIA decided to sue a company over patent infringement, they rightfully own the patents and both Samsung and ARM likely knew that.

 

On that same note, though, it seems sketchy that NVIDIA got the patent to the concept of a GPU.

Yes they have. They're basically attempting to ban near all of NVIDIA's products from America.

 

The problem is that NVidia did not sue ARM. The so called patent infringement, they accuse Samsung for is based on ARM tech, and IP, which is why Samsung refuses to pay for it, as they claim it is a case between NVidia and ARM. It is also worthy to note, that the patent itself, was made by a company bought by 3dfx, which was itself acquired by NVidia later on. For all intents and purposes, this is an obsolete patent, which is why I call it patent trolling.

 

NVidia faces big problems down the line, as both AMD and Intel, will eat away the gpu market, from the bottom up with integrated graphics, as well as their 0 gaming console presence, that AMD rules for the time being. This is why NVidia is so fixated on propriety tech and vendor lock in. They failed at gaining mobile market share, so now they try and sue their way in.

 

Samsung's suit is a counter suit, as an extra line of defence. This is a common strategy, and honestly quite understandable. NVidia should have sued ARM, instead of QUALCOMM and Samsung, that just licenses ARM tech/IP.

 

Do you have an insider on this case or something? Because I don't think anyone here knows the first two things about it.

 

You could read the source I linked, the subsequent links in that source, as well as OP's source. That should give you a broader understanding on the case.

[MrRavens]

I actually forgot this was still going on. 

[MetroP]

 

1. How is NV the bad guy in your view. They had IP. Samsung used IP without NV's consent. NV sues for unlawful use of patented IP.

 

This NEVER happened, look up what Nvidia is suing Samsung and Qualcomm over. They don't want them to make and graphics processors at all, because Nvidia claims it exclusively owns the rights to make graphics processing units. I'm not even making this up, please look it up.

[Notional]

@TERAFLOP Finally someone who knows what this is all about!

 

So Nvidia should shut-up when other companies steal it's work because it's better for consumer ?? 

 

It's their hard work and it's patented so if anyone wants to use it they should ask for their permission - paying fees/royalties or just not allowing is Nvidia choice - .

 

Sorry it's Nvidia hard work and Samsung just stole it so I'm on there side wither it will hurt the consumer or not.

 

Their hard work? No it is a fundamental IP, like patenting a clickable button. It was invented by a company, bought by 3DFX, which NVidia acquired. NVidia didn't exist when that patent was filed.

 

Samsung's graphics chips are based on ARM tech/IP, which Samsung licenses. If anyone is infringing on NVidia's troll patent, it would be ARM. I wonder why NVidia are not suing ARM? Perhaps, because NVidia themselves, license ARM IP's.

 

Why are you defending such an insane patent infringement case?

 

1. It says winning, not won. And if you would read the actual article thats what it says there. This is a good premise for the actual court ruling
2. I said this was a Markman hearing
3. How is NV the bad guy in your view. They had IP. Samsung used IP without NV's consent. NV sues for unlawful use of patented IP.

 

1. I did read the article. Along with many others. This is preliminary definitions, that ha been settled. NVidia calling it a winning, is plenty biased.
2. Fair enough
3. Because this is grade a patent trolling, which is not only very damaging for the entire GPU business (primarily the mobile markets), as well as suing Samsung for their use of ARM IP, instead of suing ARM, which holds these so called infringing patents/tech.

[LukaP]

This NEVER happened, look up what Nvidia is suing Samsung and Qualcomm over. They don't want them to make and graphics processors at all, because Nvidia claims it exclusively owns the rights to make graphics processing units. I'm not even making this up, please look it up.

I know its partly that. 

 

BUT

They own patents. They can exercise their rights to them. Samsung (or ARM in this case, though im not sure samsung uses Mali, i think they us Power) can just licence it. They are suing Qualcomm over Adreno, and they have no ARM IP in there. IIRC both Intel and Imagination actually licence some NV patents, hence they arent being sued. NVIDIA has just decided that maybe its time to get into mobile, one way or another. so they will get there. as will intel. Because they have money and existing IP. They can use both of that and they will. 

[LukaP]

 

@TERAFLOP Finally someone who knows what this is all about!

 

 

Their hard work? No it is a fundamental IP, like patenting a clickable button. It was invented by a company, bought by 3DFX, which NVidia acquired. NVidia didn't exist when that patent was filed.

 

Samsung's graphics chips are based on ARM tech/IP, which Samsung licenses. If anyone is infringing on NVidia's troll patent, it would be ARM. I wonder why NVidia are not suing ARM? Perhaps, because NVidia themselves, license ARM IP's.

 

Why are you defending such an insane patent infringement case?

 

 

1. I did read the article. Along with many others. This is preliminary definitions, that ha been settled. NVidia calling it a winning, is plenty biased.
2. Fair enough
3. Because this is grade a patent trolling, which is not only very damaging for the entire GPU business (primarily the mobile markets), as well as suing Samsung for their use of ARM IP, instead of suing ARM, which holds these so called infringing patents/tech.

 

 

 

I know its partly that. 

 

BUT

They own patents. They can exercise their rights to them. Samsung (or ARM in this case, though im not sure samsung uses Mali, i think they us Power) can just licence it. They are suing Qualcomm over Adreno, and they have no ARM IP in there. IIRC both Intel and Imagination actually licence some NV patents, hence they arent being sued. NVIDIA has just decided that maybe its time to get into mobile, one way or another. so they will get there. as will intel. Because they have money and existing IP. They can use both of that and they will. 

[GPUXPert]

I know its partly that. 

 

BUT

They own patents. They can exercise their rights to them. Samsung (or ARM in this case, though im not sure samsung uses Mali, i think they us Power) can just licence it. They are suing Qualcomm over Adreno, and they have no ARM IP in there. IIRC both Intel and Imagination actually licence some NV patents, hence they arent being sued. NVIDIA has just decided that maybe its time to get into mobile, one way or another. so they will get there. as will intel. Because they have money and existing IP. They can use both of that and they will. 

You have to understand that patents merely protect your implementation of an idea not the idea itself. Nvidia is claiming that if any company builds any sort of logic that processes graphics then its infringing on its patent, because it "invented the GPU".

 

That's absolutely ridiculous in that case I'll just patent the use of human beings as employees in companies and then sue every company in the world.  I'm sorry but if you don't see through this then you're jaded beyond reason.

[cesrai]

 

@TERAFLOP Finally someone who knows what this is all about!

 

 

Their hard work? No it is a fundamental IP, like patenting a clickable button. It was invented by a company, bought by 3DFX, which NVidia acquired. NVidia didn't exist when that patent was filed.

 

Samsung's graphics chips are based on ARM tech/IP, which Samsung licenses. If anyone is infringing on NVidia's troll patent, it would be ARM. I wonder why NVidia are not suing ARM? Perhaps, because NVidia themselves, license ARM IP's.

 

Why are you defending such an insane patent infringement case?

 

 

1. I did read the article. Along with many others. This is preliminary definitions, that ha been settled. NVidia calling it a winning, is plenty biased.
2. Fair enough
3. Because this is grade a patent trolling, which is not only very damaging for the entire GPU business (primarily the mobile markets), as well as suing Samsung for their use of ARM IP, instead of suing ARM, which holds these so called infringing patents/tech.

 

Fair enough.

[LukaP]

You have to understand that patents merely protect your implementation of an idea not the idea itself. Nvidia is claiming that if any company builds any sort of logic that processes graphics then its infringing on its patent, because it "invented the GPU".

 

That's absolutely ridiculous in that case I'll just patent the use of human beings as employees in companies and then sue every company in the world.  I'm sorry but if you don't see through this then you're jaded beyond reason.

I see through it. But what youre saying is wrong. They arent patenting the GPU. They are patenting how they started implementing an integrated Fixed Function Pipeline (and later the Shader based pipeline). Or rather how 3dfx did. Now is it right what they are doing. Not completly (Samsung/whoever is infriging on the patent should still pay). But its still their patent. They have the right to enforce it. And they did.

[Suika]

The problem is that NVidia did not sue ARM. [...] This is a common strategy, and honestly quite understandable.

You talk like you don't know anything about the issue, and then you talk like you do wtf.

 

Common business practice: sue the money. Whatever NVIDIA could get from ARM, they could get multitudes more from Samsung. Who are they more motivated to sue?

 

Also the patent for the basic design of a GPU was filed in late 1999, patent 6198488. The original assignee was NVIDIA.

[GPUXPert]

I see through it. But what youre saying is wrong. They arent patenting the GPU. They are patenting how they started implementing an integrated Fixed Function Pipeline (and later the Shader based pipeline). Or rather how 3dfx did. Now is it right what they are doing. Not completly (Samsung/whoever is infriging on the patent should still pay). But its still their patent. They have the right to enforce it. And they did.

I'll just patent water then and sue companies that bottle it (Qualcomm) and the people who drink it (Samsung). According to you I have the right to do that because I own a patent that says I invented drinkable water.

And you're plain wrong when you say they "arent patenting the GPU" because they DID and it's one of the patents they're using to sue Samsung and Qualcomm. Just read their official statement to realize how pathetic this is.

Those patents include our foundational invention, the GPU, which puts onto a single chip all the functions necessary to process graphics and light up screens

So anything that can "process graphics and light up screens" is patented by Nvidia and NO ONE else should be allowed to make, seriously do I need to go on ?!!!

 

@Suika

NVIDIA did invent the marketing term "GPU" in 1999 however they by no means invented the video card, the 3d accelerator, or any of the indivdual facets that make up a "GPU".

ATI can say they invented the "VPU".

Essentially it's like Kleenex saying they invented the Kleenex. Of course they did, but they didn't invent the first tissue paper.

The terms GPU and VPU are both semantic BS.

[LukaP]

I'll just patent water then and sue companies that bottle it (Qualcomm) and the people who drink it (Samsung). According to you I have the right to do that because I own a patent that says I invented drinkable water.

@Suika

NVIDIA did invent the marketing term "GPU" in 1999 however they by no means invented the video card, the 3d accelerator, or any of the indivdual facets that make up a "GPU".

ATI can say they invented the "VPU".

Essentially it's like Kleenex saying they invented the Kleenex. Of course they did, but they didn't invent the first tissue paper.

The terms GPU and VPU are both semantic BS.

No you cant. because water is a concept that has existed forever. 3dfx was the first, and for a while, the only one with a fixed function 3d accelerator. They literally invented and patented that then. they let ATi use the same concept, and with time, evolution of those made both versions become a relatively simple shader pipeline. 

but 3dfx invented it. they patented it. they got bought by NV. now they own that patent. And they dont want Samsung to stop making GPUs or ARM to stop designing them or whatever. They want what is rightfully theirs, a licencing fee.

If ARM (Mali), QC (Adreno), Imagination (PowerVR) and Intel dont want to pay, they can go and invent their own version of the pipeline. But Intel and Imagination know its cheaper to just pay some fees, than be late to the mobile party.

 

Look im not stupid. i know what your point is. but you dont seem to get my point. The tech that is licenced isnt that universal. It was invented by 3dfx. and so the patent is legitimate.

[Notional]

You talk like you don't know anything about the issue, and then you talk like you do wtf.

 

Common business practice: sue the money. Whatever NVIDIA could get from ARM, they could get multitudes more from Samsung. Who are they more motivated to sue?

 

Also the patent for the GPU was filed in late 1999, US 6198488. The original assignee was NVIDIA.

 

I seem to grasp this entire case more than most in here. That does not make me all knowing or anything of course, but at least I get the fundamentals.

 

If NVidia sued ARM and won, they would get licensing fees from each Samsung unit, using ARM's IP's as well. Going after Samsung is just as bs.

[Suika]

@Suika

NVIDIA did invent the marketing term "GPU" in 1999 however they by no means invented the video card, the 3d accelerator, or any of the indivdual facets that make up a "GPU".

I didn't say that NVIDIA invented anything, what are you on about? I said they applied for and own the patent.

[Frankie]

How to start war on LTT forum:

 

1) Post news about big company/companies

2) Wait

 

Guys come on now.

[LukaP]

How to start war on LTT forum:

 

1) Post news about big company/companies

2) Wait

 

Guys come on now.

Its always like this. You just read the normal comments and try to educate the stupid ones ^^

[Frankie]

Its always like this. You just read the normal comments and try to educate the stupid ones ^^

 

Pretty much. That's what you get for bringing us the news you heathen. 

[LukaP]

Pretty much. That's what you get for bringing us the news you heathen

Should i get spanked? K ill bring the executioner @AlwaysFSX

[Frankie]

Should i get spanked? K ill bring the executioner @AlwaysFSX

 

You two have some kind of a fifty shades of LTT club or something ?

[LukaP]

You two have some kind of a fifty shades of LTT club or something ?

[Notional]

Here is a good overview of the patents, NVidia uses to sue QUALCOMM and Samsung: http://www.mofoatitc.com/2014/09/new-complaint-certain-consumer-electronics-and-display-devices-with-graphics-processing-and-graphics-processing-units-therein/

[Memphaestus]

Wow.  Better not let 99% of this forum be part of the jury.  It is like trying to put down the glorious GabeN.  "NOOOOOO!!!! WE ALL LOOOVE HIM, AND NVIDIA, INTEL, VALVE, AND TESLA!!!"  (I'm guilty of the last two)  

 

And then massive droves of hate against Apple, Samsung, Microsoft, General Motors, Alienware, etc.  Come on guys, they are all corporations that do crappy things from time to time.  Just put aside your Fanboyisms, and look at the facts first, please.

[AlwaysFSX]

Should i get spanked? K ill bring the executioner @AlwaysFSX

I've been summoned.

 

You two have some kind of a fifty shades of LTT club or something ?

Yes.