Is Netflix's commitment to net neutrality a lie?

[jdcasazza23]

When Netflix announced that they will be offering it's service in Australia and New Zealand, the company abandoned its principled stand on net neutrality. Check out this article by The Verge: http://www.theverge.com/2015/3/3/8142899/netflix-net-neutrality-flipfl

[Guest Kloaked]

No, they're not.

They were wanting to do the same thing here in the states as an option with the ISP's instead of going to court or paying Comcast outright for a better connection.

[Sakkura]

They were probably forced to do this if they wanted any chance of succeeding in the market; no good clinging to net neutrality if it means customers can only use their service like two hours per month.

[rmac52]

It's not like they had much of a choice. They obviously want net neutrality. without net neutrality there very existence is thretened. If comcast could get away with it they would blacklist Netflix in a heartbeat. So for them to compromise in another market really should have no impact on how they act in the US

[Ertman]

Sensationalistic. This does not go against their stance on net neutrality, but rather the realistic cost of breaking into and doing business in foreign markets.

Zapp: I hate these filthy Neutrals, Kif. With enemies you know where they stand but with Neutrals, who knows? It sickens me.

[mvitkun]

Netflix tried, desperately, to avoid paying off ISPs to give their customers a decent connection to netflix.

If you recall prior to paying off U.S ISPs Netflix offered them a caching server which would cause Netflix to use much less bandwidth......and the ISPs rejected it because all they wanted was to be paid off.

This leaves you two actual choices and one stupid choice.

 -Be forced to not support customers of ISPs who want to be paid off......and essentially go out of business altogether since that was a large portion of ISPs

 -Pay off ISPs to get decent connection for consumers.

 -Expect subscribers of those ISPs to wait for an hour to buffer an episode because you are Jesus and they can't possibly go against you.

[Technous285]

Netflix talking with iiNet to get Netflix Aus traffic EXEMPT from our data CAPS, makes a damn good business direction, meaning that they don't inadvertently screw over their customers on the iiNet network (which includes Westnet and the like), plus is something ALREADY BEING DONE as a few things like ABC iView (which can be viewed on any computer, tablet, media center or gaming console with the app WITHOUT hurting our data caps, at least if you're not on Bigpond/Telstra and presumably Optus) is ALREADY exempt from our data caps (the caps themselves are a hold-over from Hellstra's shit in the past).

This isn't iiNet rorting Netflix Aus to cripple Netflix's data provision capabilities for moar cash (unlike Comcast), if anything this is iiNet saying they won't screw over Netflix and both their consumer bases by pulling the rug out from under the company "just because". If anything, in this case both companies are looking out for the CUSTOMERS.

I'm someone who has been with iiNet (primarily through their Westnet arm) for most of the past decade and have found them to be one of the most customer-friendly ISP's, especially when compared to the hell that is having to deal with Bigpond/Telstra and their constant drive to try and keep you locked with them and to buy Foxtel (PayTV) and push you away from online media consumption.

[Mr.Jackson]

So Netflix, a US company, fights for an open internet in its own country. it wins. it then proceeds to expand its business to other countries.

countries that do not have a very open internet.. this means playing "their game" because it is not their country, they can't lobby like they did for the US. can they?

and say they did. this would cost them a lot. money and time, both of which are valuable resources.

[Ertman]

So Netflix, a US company, fights for an open internet in its own country. it wins. it then proceeds to expand its business to other countries.

countries that do not have a very open internet.. this means playing "their game" because it is not their country, they can't lobby like they did for the US. can they?

and say they did. this would cost them a lot. money and time, both of which are valuable resources.

 

You are correct. However, then can lobby, but the lobbying efforts of a foreign corporation will only go so far.

 

I think its also a foothold situation. Expand into the country, become popular and well used, then lobby for change.

[kpreg]

this is where net neutrality gets complicated... I mean for consumers, the ones ISPs are shitty to, this is great. idek seems like net neutrality will be both good and bad imo

[othertomperson]

I'm certain that it's not a lie. They are motivated by self interest. Net neutrality is in their interest -- especially when it comes to getting a foothold in new markets.

[JaeDee884]

got to love Americans arguing over the situation in Australia.
I pay 129 a month for shit speeds(5/1) and 500GB, and thats the best i can get in my area, sure i can save 29 bucks, get 1TB with another provider but they only offer 2/0.1 speeds which is considered broadband in Australia. 

Australia has shit speeds and shit caps, most households have only 50GB cap plans so having netflix being unmetered will either draw people to iiNet (who i would be with if it was offered in my area) or optus, two of the three major ISP's are doing the unmetered netflix, and its more likely meant to try and draw customers in from the real big guy (Telstra, i say the other two are big, but only compared to other providers, they're tiny compared to Telstra who owns most of the infrastructure in australia and has the monopoly in sales as well.) 

this is Netflix helping a restrictive market access their service easily. in a country with a tiny population with expensive data options, there's no such this as unlimited mobile data here. and most of the unlimited ISP providers can't give you enough speed to even warrant having more than 200GB cap. 

[Bensemus]

Being exempt from a data cap and paying for a fast lane are too different things. If Netflix had cut a deal that would give their content priority over other stuff so customers could watch HD content that is against NN. I would guess that Netflix would rather not have to make this kind of deal in the first place but once again it has to maneuver around ISPs and infrastructure limitations.

[Ohlyver]

People, Please remember that net neutrality as discussed in the recent months is only about the USA 

 

so net neutrality as we all talk about does not apply to australia and new-zealand...

[Sakkura]

this is Netflix helping a restrictive market access their service easily. in a country with a tiny population with expensive data options, there's no such this as unlimited mobile data here. and most of the unlimited ISP providers can't give you enough speed to even warrant having more than 200GB cap. 

 

I don't think the tiny population is the problem, more the fact that it's spread out across such a huge area, and on a separate continent.

 

Being exempt from a data cap and paying for a fast lane are too different things. If Netflix had cut a deal that would give their content priority over other stuff so customers could watch HD content that is against NN. I would guess that Netflix would rather not have to make this kind of deal in the first place but once again it has to maneuver around ISPs and infrastructure limitations.

 

Data cap exemption is still a violation of net neutrality, just different from having specific types of traffic throttled. And as you can see, Netflix has spoken out against this exact type of thing in the past.

 

But I don't think this makes them hypocrites, they're just forced to do this if they want to do business in Australia. I bet they'd love to get rid of data caps in general.

[Silent_Xaxal]

The Verge. Continuing it's FUCKING SENSATIONALISTIC hole digging.

[JAKEBAB]

Majority of our isp's have data caps, IInet is one company that has what they call the "freezone" and anything on that doesn't count towards your data so i take this as a good thing. If you don't want to go with IInet there is TPG, DODO and Optus who all do unlimited.

[Misanthrope]

You know all the stupid regulations from content owners that frequently make shows disappear from Netflix? Yeah it's 100x worst if you're using Netflix abroad. They have been able to be popular mainly because they're popular among tech saavy people who know how to use a proxy and their "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" policy on it, which btw despite their public claims of them blocking popular proxies they mostly continue to work just fine even today.

[Stomplar]

guys better read up on what nn is.

[Orblivion]

Honestly this doesn't really fall under the category of net neutrality to me.  Netflix isn't given higher priority or higher bandwidth at all from this deal, the deal just makes it so that their content does  not count against your data cap.  This is a result of how ridiculously low the data caps are in Australia.

[Bensemus]

Data cap exemption is still a violation of net neutrality, just different from having specific types of traffic throttled. And as you can see, Netflix has spoken out against this exact type of thing in the past.

 

But I don't think this makes them hypocrites, they're just forced to do this if they want to do business in Australia. I bet they'd love to get rid of data caps in general.

I agree that this isn't a priactice of net neutrality. In my comment I said "I would guess that Netflix would rather not have to make these kind of deals in the first place but once again it has to maneuver around ISPs and infrastructure limitations." what they are doing is the lesser of two evils, kinda. If they didn't make this deal a lot of people wouldn't be able to use their servises as they would hit their cap. Netflix has, I'm assuming, very little influence with the Australian goverment so it really has no other way around these problems. They supported Net Neutrality in the US to but still made deals with isps so their customers could enjoy their content. Netflix is a buisness and will do what it can to gain customers and make sure that those customers can enjoy the content they paid for.

[Technous285]

I agree that this isn't a priactice of net neutrality. In my comment I said "I would guess that Netflix would rather not have to make these kind of deals in the first place but once again it has to maneuver around ISPs and infrastructure limitations." what they are doing is the lesser of two evils, kinda. If they didn't make this deal a lot of people wouldn't be able to use their servises as they would hit their cap. Netflix has, I'm assuming, very little influence with the Australian goverment so it really has no other way around these problems. They supported Net Neutrality in the US to but still made deals with isps so their customers could enjoy their content. Netflix is a buisness and will do what it can to gain customers and make sure that those customers can enjoy the content they paid for.

Yes & No - as someone with Westnet (subsidiary under iiNet), Netflix wouldn't be the only ones having their traffic exempt from my 300GB/month data cap - ABC's iView setup so I can catch up on FTA shows from the past 2 or 3 weeks is exempt from the data caps of iiNet customers, and so is using Steam - provided your system is chatting with servers owned by Valve (such as game distribution servers) and not third-party game servers in things like TF2.

I am also a customer of Quickflix (our version of Netflix/RedBox) & CrunchyRoll, and the data I use streaming shows and movies from them DOES count towards my monthly 300GB cap, whilst Netflix is trying to get their data treated like ABC & Valve, by not counting towards our caps and possibly pissing us off when the content they try to deliver is cut in speed because we hit our limit for the month if they weren't otherwise exempt.

Honestly, I'd like to hear that Quickflix opens talks with iiNet and the like to try and get the data their customers exempt from the customers data caps, making happy Netflix/Quickflix, happy ISP's (not having to deal with nightmares of micromanaging who is capped for what streaming service, everyone is exempt) & happy customers (who'd otherwise move away from Netflix, Quickflix or their current ISP).

[Bensemus]

snip

Everyone should be except from data caps as they serve no purpose as far as I am aware.

[han_han08]

i am against throttling when I know I am paying for something unlimited..(though, many would argue and agree unlimited would not mean consistent high speed internet) it really just sucks for me..

 

by subscribing in the service, I am told i'm also abiding by the company's Fair Use Policy (throttling speeds of excessive internet users to keep surfing an enjoyable experience for everyone else subscribed in the service)

 

is that the same as Net Neutrality? will we ever see NN in our shores? 

[Technous285]

Everyone should be except from data caps as they serve no purpose as far as I am aware.

Except with the sorry state our telecom infrastructure is in here in Aus, the only types of accounts ISP's can afford to provide "unlimited" data plans to are 56K Dial-up users, whilst those on ISDN or ADSL ("broadband") get caps to regulate the general amount of data flowing through and processed by any given ISP's network per-month.

What folks like Netflix, ABC & Steam are doing is trying to give their customers the best experience they can in a fucked-up nightmare where most of the exchanges are 25-30 years old and nowhere NEAR capable of handling the sort of data traffic required by the modern world.