Paying for Cloud Storage is Stupid

[Galadriel]

I currently run two home servers, one B550 VM host that has my Lancache server with 4x2TB NVMe drives in RAID0 on a x16 non-bifurcation card to max out my 2.5Gb local network and another server that acts as my NAS and runs plex with an RTX A2000 (unable to host plex on VM host due to PCIe limitations on Platform alongside NVMe RAID0). Would this be a viable option to offload my lanCache server and consolidate my NAS and encoding GPU back into my VM-Host to repurpose my other server hardware?

[kaylexmorgana]

13 hours ago, Elijah Horner said:

it was on one device

Damn. I was going to buy this but I need it to work for 4k as well.

Anyone else have any other suggestions similar like this? 

[OhYou_]

On 3/29/2024 at 4:54 PM, Elijah Horner said:

If you are tired for paying for Cloud Storage like Google Drive or ICloud? Then we found the NAS Device for you! This tiny computer is so small it can fit in your pocket and have over 30TB of SSD Storage. For under $100 you can have a powerful ARM based board to call youre own!

 

Buy TeamGroup MP34 4TB SSD: https://bit.ly/3ROypBM

Buy FriendlyELEC CM3588 NAS: https://lmg.gg/kgce0

where yesterday's video thread?

[Aleph256]

2 hours ago, OhYou_ said:

where yesterday's video thread?

Probably not making one since it's an AF joke and they'll be busy enough running damage control in the YT comments?

[dogwitch]

1 minute ago, Aleph256 said:

Probably not making one since it's an AF joke and they'll be busy enough running damage control in the YT comments?

yep.

\gamer fell hard for nvidia buying xbox joke.....

i swear people skill now to no research anything and take face value from rando source.... is a issue

[OhYou_]

21 minutes ago, Aleph256 said:

Probably not making one since it's an AF joke and they'll be busy enough running damage control in the YT comments?

how am I supposed to complain about the bloopers/setup of it being paywalled on floatplane without a thread

[Kisai]

On 3/29/2024 at 4:54 PM, Elijah Horner said:

If you are tired for paying for Cloud Storage like Google Drive or ICloud? Then we found the NAS Device for you! This tiny computer is so small it can fit in your pocket and have over 30TB of SSD Storage. For under $100 you can have a powerful ARM based board to call youre own!

 

Buy TeamGroup MP34 4TB SSD: https://bit.ly/3ROypBM

Buy FriendlyELEC CM3588 NAS: https://lmg.gg/kgce0

I'm sorry but what? It supports only a single PCIe 4.0 4 lane drive. Unless you're gonna run all the drives at 1 lane (1GB/sec), but completely wastes the NVMe potential on anything with more than one lane. And you want to turn that into 5 SATA ports? Are we forgetting the Ethernet bottleneck?

 

This is my Red Pro 20TB drive:

(This drive has 8K clusters because MS formats NTFS >16TB at 8K)

 

A 2.5Gbit connection gets you 312MB/sec, at most. So in theory 4 SATA 7200RPM drives = 1GB, so theoretically you can use 4 of those SATA ports at once within the NVMe PCIe lane, but only one drive will ever be "useable" on the remote host. If two drives are accessed, or worse, all of them, the performance goes in the toilet because the Ethernet interface is a bottle neck. Maybe that's fine if this is archiving data, but it's going to take absolutely forever to get data on and off it.

 

It's typically better to just have the drive in the machine you want to archive from, make that archive on that machine and then put the drive into something else and mount it as-is. That's where I can see this being useful. However when we're talking about large mechanical drives, 5x4x20TB= 400TB, and it would take around 19 days to completely fill. Perhaps that's better than cloud services, but it's not saving very much time.

 

And trust me, things things are worse if you just buy external drives chassis.

I bought a bunch of these: 

They stop working at random destroying the data on the drive. So before someone goes "just buy a bunch of externals" damn near all USB external drive chassis are unreliable. This has been true since inception. I've had to throw away pretty much every single one because either the power supplies failed or the in the case with the JX, it just randomly crashes the USB bus and corrupts data on the drive, and usually locks up the desktop.

 

So I saw the video and was like "oh, what snake oil is this?"

 

In theory, this might work, emphasis on "might". In practice this is not the right hardware at all. Because these low power devices are often designed around trying to save power, so unless you're going to stick 4, 2TB SN570's in it and run them at 1x instead of 4x ($520) you're wasting the performance of the 4-lane drives. a 700 dollar 8TB drive that can only put out the speed of a single SATA drive is just kinda stupid. You're better off sticking 4 drives in an iGPU system that has the 16x slot free.

 

Or, maybe this company is on the right path. Maybe they can get a chip that has 16 pcie 3 or 4 lanes and sell that as a NAS device with a multi-gigabit (10g/5g/2.5g/1g) ethernet to make it worth using.

 

But I think the lack of cheap 1-lane PCIe 3.0 drives makes this device a bit of a "who is this for exactly?" You either need to waste money on NVme drives that will have 75% of their performance wasted or adapters to SATA, and then you need a specialized chassis to go with it.

[Gamel]

I have made the purchase of the board. and turns out it is so new that no one have even made a case for it.

 

I am now trying to design a case for 4bay3.5 or 6bay2.5

 

Currently stuck at power supply selection/option. The easiest way should be DC12V 1to2, then DC12V to SATA, then SATA 1to6

But the main issue is this setup will power on the HDD/SSD 24/7 even the "NAS" was switch off by choice or sudden power outage.

I'd want the HDD/SSD to only be power when the "NAS" is power on, is there any way to do that? or i need to add a MOS/relay?

 

Also for the M.2 to SATA, I notice there are 2versions, one use JMB chip and the other use ASM chip. Both listed as plug and play for Win/Mac/Linux. Does this ARM based board also can use directly? I have some small 128/256GB M.2 on hand to do the initial setup. but I'd want to use SATA eventually, got some 10TB spare HDD around. I'd want to stay away from synology after last time I got hack. This time I am going to set LAN only and must connect to correct VPN to access

 

[Gamel]

On 4/2/2024 at 2:29 PM, Kisai said:

I'm sorry but what? It supports only a single PCIe 4.0 4 lane drive. Unless you're gonna run all the drives at 1 lane (1GB/sec), but completely wastes the NVMe potential on anything with more than one lane. And you want to turn that into 5 SATA ports? Are we forgetting the Ethernet bottleneck?

 

This is my Red Pro 20TB drive:

(This drive has 8K clusters because MS formats NTFS >16TB at 8K)

 

A 2.5Gbit connection gets you 312MB/sec, at most. So in theory 4 SATA 7200RPM drives = 1GB, so theoretically you can use 4 of those SATA ports at once within the NVMe PCIe lane, but only one drive will ever be "useable" on the remote host. If two drives are accessed, or worse, all of them, the performance goes in the toilet because the Ethernet interface is a bottle neck. Maybe that's fine if this is archiving data, but it's going to take absolutely forever to get data on and off it.

 

It's typically better to just have the drive in the machine you want to archive from, make that archive on that machine and then put the drive into something else and mount it as-is. That's where I can see this being useful. However when we're talking about large mechanical drives, 5x4x20TB= 400TB, and it would take around 19 days to completely fill. Perhaps that's better than cloud services, but it's not saving very much time.

 

And trust me, things things are worse if you just buy external drives chassis.

I bought a bunch of these: 

They stop working at random destroying the data on the drive. So before someone goes "just buy a bunch of externals" damn near all USB external drive chassis are unreliable. This has been true since inception. I've had to throw away pretty much every single one because either the power supplies failed or the in the case with the JX, it just randomly crashes the USB bus and corrupts data on the drive, and usually locks up the desktop.

 

So I saw the video and was like "oh, what snake oil is this?"

 

In theory, this might work, emphasis on "might". In practice this is not the right hardware at all. Because these low power devices are often designed around trying to save power, so unless you're going to stick 4, 2TB SN570's in it and run them at 1x instead of 4x ($520) you're wasting the performance of the 4-lane drives. a 700 dollar 8TB drive that can only put out the speed of a single SATA drive is just kinda stupid. You're better off sticking 4 drives in an iGPU system that has the 16x slot free.

 

Or, maybe this company is on the right path. Maybe they can get a chip that has 16 pcie 3 or 4 lanes and sell that as a NAS device with a multi-gigabit (10g/5g/2.5g/1g) ethernet to make it worth using.

 

But I think the lack of cheap 1-lane PCIe 3.0 drives makes this device a bit of a "who is this for exactly?" You either need to waste money on NVme drives that will have 75% of their performance wasted or adapters to SATA, and then you need a specialized chassis to go with it.

 

That's exactly why I made the purchase. for the 2.5Gbps bottleneck

If go for ready built NAS, they have 10Gbps version, but the price tag for those are not so affordable.

And the price just add up quick, 10Gbps pci card for PC, 10Gbps switch, 10Gbps router and 10Gbps internet.

the last one is cheap in the place I live (Singapore), but 10Gbps switch/router is crazily costly here or online from oversea. compare to the monthly 10Gbps boardbrand plan.

 

And 200+MB/s is more than enough for my NAS use, the most intense case for my usage is to watch 8k(hopefully higher in future) video in VR

 

That's why I am going for M.2 to SATA with HDD as my reply posted above. it is way more affordable.

Now I only need a 2.5Gbps switch and router, my PC already have 2.5Gbps on board. And I don't need 2.5Gbps WAN for now.

If I need that, I can upgrade anytime, only SGD$21.8 per month (10Gbps is SGD$59.99 per month)

[Kisai]

3 hours ago, Gamel said:

 

That's why I am going for M.2 to SATA with HDD as my reply posted above. it is way more affordable.

Now I only need a 2.5Gbps switch and router, my PC already have 2.5Gbps on board. And I don't need 2.5Gbps WAN for now.

If I need that, I can upgrade anytime, only SGD$21.8 per month (10Gbps is SGD$59.99 per month)

2.5Gbit switches are overpriced, I had to hold my nose and buy TL-SG108S-M2 (TP-Link) which is basically just a 2.5G version of the 1Gbit model. I could not find ANY multi-gigabit models from any vendor. They do not exist. Either I had to buy a 10Gbit model that doesn't support 2.5/5.0 or I had to stick with 1Gbit models with SFP+ ports. At that point you're paying for $800 for the switch.

 

To go back to the issue with this SoC. What I would suggest is finding one of the same chasis used by the FreeNAS Mini.

https://www.truenas.com/blog/introducing-freenas-mini-e-plus/ and just build something to adapt the screw holes. Because otherwise you're going to have to build something that supports the ventilation requirements of 4 drives in close proximity. There are other chassis out there, but basically the stumbling point with this SoC is that it's not an complete product.

 

Like for real, Let's assume they come with a smarter design, because on the surface what they've done is broken out the SoC's 4 PCIe lanes into 4 separate M2 slots, when the vendor could have just had 20 SATA connectors if that's what people wanted. If these were all 16 lanes, and each was 4, I could understand sticking SATA adapters in it. Realistically, you can not use 5 SATA ports. This card would would have to be the only card in it.

 

Notice in the description it requires 2 3.0 lanes and you can't boot the OS. So that means you can't really use this. Maybe it works in 1 lane mode, maybe it doesn't. Someone would have to try, and that still assumes the OS has drivers compiled for the SoC for the chip.

 

Anyway, my misgivings about the product is primarily that if this was a complete product (Eg 4 x 4.0 lanes) even if it was limited by 2.5G, the kind of product I would want is one where I can plug in 4 NVMe 4-lane drives, plus one PCIe 4 lane 10Gbit or 2.5Gbit card. Alas, this product doesn't do this. Now if I wanted SATA on it, what I would expect is the vendor to sell something like the above card, and a power-supply board on the inside that has the necessary SATA power connector headers. 

 

Anyway, if someone wants to buy one and see how far they can get, neat project, but it's not a practical one for users. They would just have to sell a power supply that is capable of powering 20 x 7w drives. So you need a 140watts for that, plus what you need for the SOC. You can buy used Dell/HP 130w/180w bricks off ebay to get that. The same OEM's make both.

 

[Gamel]

16 hours ago, Kisai said:

2.5Gbit switches are overpriced, I had to hold my nose and buy TL-SG108S-M2 (TP-Link) which is basically just a 2.5G version of the 1Gbit model. I could not find ANY multi-gigabit models from any vendor. They do not exist. Either I had to buy a 10Gbit model that doesn't support 2.5/5.0 or I had to stick with 1Gbit models with SFP+ ports. At that point you're paying for $800 for the switch.

 

To go back to the issue with this SoC. What I would suggest is finding one of the same chasis used by the FreeNAS Mini.

https://www.truenas.com/blog/introducing-freenas-mini-e-plus/ and just build something to adapt the screw holes. Because otherwise you're going to have to build something that supports the ventilation requirements of 4 drives in close proximity. There are other chassis out there, but basically the stumbling point with this SoC is that it's not an complete product.

 

Like for real, Let's assume they come with a smarter design, because on the surface what they've done is broken out the SoC's 4 PCIe lanes into 4 separate M2 slots, when the vendor could have just had 20 SATA connectors if that's what people wanted. If these were all 16 lanes, and each was 4, I could understand sticking SATA adapters in it. Realistically, you can not use 5 SATA ports. This card would would have to be the only card in it.

 

Notice in the description it requires 2 3.0 lanes and you can't boot the OS. So that means you can't really use this. Maybe it works in 1 lane mode, maybe it doesn't. Someone would have to try, and that still assumes the OS has drivers compiled for the SoC for the chip.

 

Anyway, my misgivings about the product is primarily that if this was a complete product (Eg 4 x 4.0 lanes) even if it was limited by 2.5G, the kind of product I would want is one where I can plug in 4 NVMe 4-lane drives, plus one PCIe 4 lane 10Gbit or 2.5Gbit card. Alas, this product doesn't do this. Now if I wanted SATA on it, what I would expect is the vendor to sell something like the above card, and a power-supply board on the inside that has the necessary SATA power connector headers. 

 

Anyway, if someone wants to buy one and see how far they can get, neat project, but it's not a practical one for users. They would just have to sell a power supply that is capable of powering 20 x 7w drives. So you need a 140watts for that, plus what you need for the SOC. You can buy used Dell/HP 130w/180w bricks off ebay to get that. The same OEM's make both.

 

I just found out it is cheaper to get 4/6bay docking/raid station with USB3.0. compare to buying parts like M.2to SATA and DIY around.

Also those comes with power supply already. USB3.0 is still faster than 2.5Gbps. so it should be read as external drive directly.

now i just need to pick one raid box that i like and design the case for CM3588 to fit the style. the workload have cut down 80%, nice

[Spindel]

I like the video but 4 of the SSD ”recommended” would be around 1600 USD (that is with VAT added) where I live so big no to mass storage, for personal use, that isn’t HDDs.

 

 

[Issac Zachary]

This is an awesome video and awesome product! I'm getting one (or maybe two)!

 

I do need to understand it better though. Can I connect to it through the internet, like from a different city, or does "network" in "network attached storage" only refer to a home/local network?

[Aleph256]

3 hours ago, Issac Zachary said:

This is an awesome video and awesome product! I'm getting one (or maybe two)!

 

I do need to understand it better though. Can I connect to it through the internet, like from a different city, or does "network" in "network attached storage" only refer to a home/local network?

It nominally only works on a local network, though you can do some setup (local VPN, port forwarding...) to access it remotely. The NAS subsection of the forum might be a better place to ask though.

[mcmohan]

Is it possible to get step by step instructions to set this up? Asking for a noob friend... 

[Selluminis50]

Which M.2 drives do we really need for this?  I am not sure that gen 4 or 5 is needed.  Gen 3 would probably be good enough, yeah?  Still be way faster than HDD.

[Kevkid]

Anyone concerned about heatsinks for these m2 drives? The space between them looks super tight. Was considering an m2 like the Lexar NM790 which is about $250 a pop for 4tb but want to make sure it will fit. 

[Pawz2142]

I'd like to see the NAS performance for the CM3588 go head to head with the Intel N100 solution shown here. CM3588 definitely takes the power consumption trophy but the N100 definitely has a lot of perks being an Intel platform and massive single core performance bump.

[killetsean]

I bought this board but there is no information regarding the default logins for all the different images. When you flash to image to the board there is not a prompt to create a login.

[Elijah Horner]

26 minutes ago, killetsean said:

I bought this board but there is no information regarding the default logins for all the different images. When you flash to image to the board there is not a prompt to create a login.

2 Different things that may help find it

You can use something like https://www.advanced-ip-scanner.com/ to ping and locate it on your network if its not showing the IP on the screen

Another thing is the default creds are searchable https://forum.openmediavault.org/index.php?thread/7784-default-login/

[ELseoudi Tech]

It is very useful product and there is no competition from any other company at this price , nobody should use cloud storage

 

[Godlygamer23]

28 minutes ago, ELseoudi Tech said:

It is very useful product and there is no competition from any other company at this price , nobody should use cloud storage

Cloud storage is very useful for offsite backups, in addition to using onsite storage.

[rgshea]

Can I buy one of these already put together and ready to go? I'm not tech savvy enough to build and set this up on my own.

The WD My Cloud NAS I bought two years ago just reset on me and now I have to go get the data recovered.

Seriously though.. I'm interested in this.

[ELseoudi Tech]

10 hours ago, Godlygamer23 said:

Cloud storage is very useful for offsite backups, in addition to using onsite storage.

Yes for backup cloud storage is a great option

[T34p075]

I'm having an issue with this and wondering if anyone else is as well...I bought two of these kits plus drives for use in two different locations. However, when using openmediavault, only one of the NVME drives is detected despite the slots being full. I've reseated the drives and tested through power cycles. I'd assume bad drives, but...two machines and multiple drives all being a problem leads me to believe that something else is going on. Am I alone in this?