Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[GotWeez]

1 minute ago, Alexeygridnev1993 said:

Also, it's not like LTT has never been good at testing. They have been pretty reliable for years - until the last 1-2 years when they just started to release 20 videos a week and disregarded the quality completely.

I'm not talking about their past track record... I'm talking about the current trend.

 

And if anything, past accuracy makes it even worse; because you're leveraging people's trust that your accuracy will continue to be of an acceptable level.

 

Spending trust like it's currency in order to shovel content out the door... not great.

[Alexeygridnev1993]

Just now, Glorthiar said:

You "We made this decision based on the fact its doesn't support our position so please stop saying it because it makes us look bad"

https://www.writersdigest.com/write-better-nonfiction/5-rules-of-ethical-journalism
https://journalism.nyu.edu/about-us/resources/ethics-handbook-for-students/nyu-journalism-handbook-for-students/
https://ethics.journalists.org/topics/balance-and-fairness/

5 minutes and 3 different sources saying that If it is possible to reach out to give both sides a chance to comment you probably should.
By just stomping your feet and screaming "BUT HE DOESN'T NEED TOO' You just make yourselves look like babies.

GN made no effort to reach out for comment and it lead to him sharing incomplete stories that make LMG look worse than they were.

Those are just the guidelines, not legal requirements. Plus, in a follow-up, Steve explained why exactly he didn't call Linus. Namely, he was concerned that Linus would start covering things up

[Lagonas]

15 minutes ago, andreimj said:

If you need another youtuber to tell you what to think....i can only say it's a good thing that you recently discovered how much you hate LTT

What an absolute nonsense is that. People with more knowledge can show you evidence of subjects that you did not notice before, because you don't have a decade of experience in the matter. People watch tech channels for entertainment, but also to learn.

[GotWeez]

1 minute ago, Alexeygridnev1993 said:

Those are just the guidelines, not legal requirements. Plus, in a follow-up, Steve explained why exactly he didn't call Linus. Namely, he was concerned that Linus would start covering things up

Or minimize the situation... like he still tried to do with his earlier forum posts.

[Katojana]

26 minutes ago, schwarzerrogen said:

I also can't quite understand where it's GN's job to comment on another content creator's business... is he an expert at commentary? I understand the need for transparency and accountability... but why is GN, a hardware review YT channel, deciding to go full TMZ about other YT channels out of nowhere?

Because GN is in the same field of work and when he sees a horrible mismanagement in his field of work by someone else misrepresenting data and reviews he has to speak out??

[24Pinned]

18 minutes ago, schwarzerrogen said:

I also can't quite understand where it's GN's job to comment on another content creator's business... is he an expert at commentary? I understand the need for transparency and accountability... but why is GN, a hardware review YT channel, deciding to go full TMZ about other YT channels out of nowhere?

He's got a history of calling out bad actors. Bad computer manufacturers, bad retailers, bad assemblers, etc. If you watched the videos he addresses that. It's for the consumer. Because bad stuff should be called out before people spend money on it.

 

He tried giving LMG the opportunity before and was met with Trust Me Bro. After that he said he would only treat them like any other company. 

 

So when LMG posts bad data and gives recommendations on bad data you call that out. When you find out that it took to months for them to own up to the business owners that they sold their prototype (and did it by saying "good news, it's not on a shelf somewhere!" you call that out as well. And when you make a shit apology, complete with a timeline that shows you didn't do right by that company, you call that out. 

 

GN has already said he's not going to bother commenting on LMG anymore, but I hope someone does because today's apology video was tasteless. Three sponsor jokes, one reveal of the prototype cost (against the wishes of the affected party), and one really out of place sex joke. Yeah, LTT/LMG need to do better.

 

Everyone should hold them up to a higher standard. That means people on this forum with no real voice, and it means people in the media with a platform. 

[Godiwa]

6 minutes ago, Glorthiar said:

You "We made this decision based on the fact its doesn't support our position so please stop saying it because it makes us look bad"

https://www.writersdigest.com/write-better-nonfiction/5-rules-of-ethical-journalism
https://journalism.nyu.edu/about-us/resources/ethics-handbook-for-students/nyu-journalism-handbook-for-students/
https://ethics.journalists.org/topics/balance-and-fairness/

5 minutes and 3 different sources saying that If it is possible to reach out to give both sides a chance to comment you probably should.
By just stomping your feet and screaming "BUT HE DOESN'T NEED TOO' You just make yourselves look like babies.

GN made no effort to reach out for comment and it lead to him sharing incomplete stories that make LMG look worse than they were.

He still doesn't have to... no matter how many sources you list... it is not a REQUIREMENT...

And did Linus reach out to them when he slammed them on the WAN show? no? good... then we have set that straight...

[Biomancer81]

34 minutes ago, SimonZerafa said:

So it seems that a lot of people throwing shade at GN really haven't watched Steve's video about the issues at LTT. Or if you have they you really didn't understand what Steve said. Go watch it again and really listen this time.

 

To be clear I watch and enjoy both channels but to call Steve out for point out the egregious errors LTT been publishing and the poor way they previously handled criticism are deluding themselves.  There would be no changes or reflection going on at LTT now if Steve hadn't published what he did in exactly the way they did it.

 

Yes, public criticism is hard to take and its doubly worse when it's accurate and fully justified. No I wouldn't be happy either.

 

LTT hopefully will learn and be better for it. When Linus understands and accepts this hopefully he will contact Steve and thank him. That will be the sign he's understood and taking everything onboard and change has arrived. Yes that will be hard but I suspect Linus can do it.

 

The situation with Madison is really fucking disturbing and if 1% of what she says is accurate then LTT has much more serious internal issues to resolve. In most serious UK organizations the type of behavior she describes would get you fired. I suspect it would be in Canada also, at least it should be the cause for very serious ramifications. Let see what the independent investigation mentioned in the Verge article brings.

 

We watched, we understood what he is saying, we even commented that his criticism is valid.

 

What we take issue with is him framing himself as some sort of moral agent in the fight, when at the minimum he is acting in base hypocrisy. and at the worst, leveraging this for his own benefit.

[Biomancer81]

3 minutes ago, Godiwa said:

He still doesn't have to... no matter how many sources you list... it is not a REQUIREMENT...

And did Linus reach out to them when he slammed them on the WAN show? no? good... then we have set that straight...

Linus has never attacked GN on wan show, seriously what are you on about.

[ColinJ451]

I think for what it is worth is Linus needs to step back more than he was intending to as CVO, video data, writing and editing needs to be put in the hands of the heads of departments and trusted to get it right or Taren needs to keep them accountable.

I struggle to understand what Steve's specific issues with Linus is nowadays but clear they go far deeper on a personal level since the TMB warranty situation and can't help this is yet again shooting down LMG to keep GN ahead as things go forward.

Does this issue need a 44min drag, absolutely not, does LMG need to do much better moving forward and have a lot to do with the quality checking that they were talking about on the wan show.

The scale of channels, new writers, schedule and commitment have taken their toll, however given the lack of recent releases that require accuracy of testing I wonder if this is a post LTX take down, and then Madison piled on.

The billet labs is an awful exception to this of course but given the amount of money and time since that video was released if that was the only working prototype they had it would be bizarre 

[Glorthiar]

1 minute ago, Godiwa said:

He still doesn't have to... no matter how many sources you list... it is not a REQUIREMENT...

And did Linus reach out to them when he slammed them on the WAN show? no? good... then we have set that straight...

You seem to lack even the most basic understanding of the problem. It's like arguing with a fucking brick wall.
I will happily disregard the opinions of you and every one babbling the same lame ass illogical arguments.
 

[Commander_Z]

So when is Linus properly quitting???

[Katojana]

4 minutes ago, Biomancer81 said:

Linus has never attacked GN on wan show, seriously what are you on about.

He has. Have you not watched the trust me bro wan shows?

[Biomancer81]

22 minutes ago, Godiwa said:

because if you haven't noticed it they always point out when companies does shitty things for the consumer... which LMG was/is doing... shitty/fake/wrong results and conclusions that can mislead people both into buying something that isn't as good as claimed (300% performance gain on the GPU test) or claim a mouse is utterly useless.... when it is the tester himself that is utterly useless... both cases hurt the consumer

viewers(consumers) have complained about it for atleast 2 years now... and Linus has brushed it off everytime...

now he got a wakeup call he couldn't just ignore because another sizeable channel called out the shenanigans... and when all those that have been bamboozled finds out what they thought was trustworthy reviews is pure garbage... then there is the uproar you see here...

and little fanbois like yourself is totally unhappy because someone told the truth about your lord saviour Linus

GN has gone after multiple companies with exploding powersupplies, self-igniting cases, burning graphicscards, bad warrenties and scamming winners from their price etc. etc. and LMG is just another large company... that did a poor job on their "customers" the viewers feeding them incorrect information...

information was served, with a dose of proof... and all the fanbois cries foul... and goes after the messenger instead of listening to the facts and demand that the issues are corrected...

end of story...

Yes LTT points out when companies, not in the same industry as LTT does shitty things.

 

 

 

If LTT called out Anker but was also making a security priduct that competed with their Eufy brand, it would be wrong, the same kind of wrong Steve is for bringing up the matter this way. Steve himself said it is a conflict of interest to review content because of said conflict of interest, so why would we accord him the special position of being a "journalist" that is the exception to the conflict of interest argument.

 

It is a conflict of interest for him to review LTT at all in terms of videos as a competitor in that market.

 

The fact that you can conflate in your mind reviewing a product you have no intrinisic interest in the outcome, meaning potential profit, and one where you do is a huge issue.

[24Pinned]

17 minutes ago, Awsmkiid13 said:

But the thing missing from Steves video is that Linus was allready trying to resolve this on the 10th.. 

How long had they had the cooler post testing without returning it? What happened to the 3090ti that was sent along with it but not used for testing? Why did it take weeks to get to the point that they not only realized they lost it, but had sold it?

 

He was willing to pay them on the tenth. After mishandling their items, failing to use half of them, absolutely trashing them and doubling down on it, losing the card, selling the cooler, and then finally owning up to it on the tenth.  

 

Then his apology where he wants them to eat, but you know not by reaching anyone who might afford the "supercar" that is the product. I'm not sure why you're hung up on the fact that he mishandled an email that showed he was willing to pay a few days before LMG got exposed, instead of putting it on the pile of one more thing that was mishandled. The person he sent it to in procurement didn't do anything about it either. 

 

So the question is really, with a pattern of clumsy testing, community bashing, and Trust Me Bro antics, why are you trying to defend him on this one thing? 

[Biomancer81]

Just now, Katojana said:

He has. Have you not watched the trust me bro wan shows?

Ive watched every WAN show for the past couple of years.

 

He absolutely did not tear into GN. He did respond to GNs, once again, interest conflicted statement.

 

GN is a competitor with LTT, anything he says furthers his own interest in the conflict.

[Godiwa]

2 minutes ago, Biomancer81 said:

Ive watched every WAN show for the past couple of years.

 

He absolutely did not tear into GN. He did respond to GNs, once again, interest conflicted statement.

 

GN is a competitor with LTT, anything he says furthers his own interest in the conflict.

apparently you don't pay much attention when you watch em... others have seen it, it's not like it some sort of state secret... so maybe you missed something that others didn't miss... doesn't mean it didn't happen because you missed it...

[Duranu]

I think Linus' update comment is great:

Quote

Update 1: It's come to my attention that in Billet Labs' Reddit post, they censored the quoted cost of their prototype water block. We were never asked to keep this information private, and given that our sources for the matter were our own correspondence with them rather than Reddit, we didn't know to include the censorship.

Totally understandable, it's not as if Gamers Nexus, or anyone else for example, had made 2 videos with millions of views each, days prior to LTT's apology video, If that would have happened LTT surely would have watched them and had known Billet didn't want this info released, but Since no one made such a video, and Billet Labs didn't tell LTT specifically/directly not to do it, it's totally acceptable /s

[Biomancer81]

19 minutes ago, Katojana said:

Because GN is in the same field of work and when he sees a horrible mismanagement in his field of work by someone else misrepresenting data and reviews he has to speak out??

This is the very definition of Conflict of Interest, which Steve seems to be suoer concerned about.

[pressure]

19 minutes ago, Godiwa said:

He still doesn't have to... no matter how many sources you list... it is not a REQUIREMENT...
 

While you're right that it may not be a strict "REQUIREMENT" for Gamers Nexus or any other outlet to ask for LTT's side of the story, it's considered a standard journalistic practice to seek comment or clarification from the party being discussed or criticized, especially if the claims can be potentially damaging. This approach ensures fairness, balanced reporting, and also gives audiences a more comprehensive view of the situation. If Gamers Nexus chose not to take this step, they may have missed out on providing a well-rounded perspective to their viewers.

Terming it as "yellow journalism" might be strong, but it does raise questions about the thoroughness and fairness of their reporting. It's always essential for journalistic entities, even in the YouTube realm, to strive for accuracy and fairness, regardless of whether it's a formal "requirement" or not.

[JeffreyLF]

2 minutes ago, sakib002001 said:

While you're right that it may not be a strict "REQUIREMENT" for Gamers Nexus or any other outlet to ask for LTT's side of the story, it's considered a standard journalistic practice to seek comment or clarification from the party being discussed or criticized, especially if the claims can be potentially damaging. This approach ensures fairness, balanced reporting, and also gives audiences a more comprehensive view of the situation. If Gamers Nexus chose not to take this step, they may have missed out on providing a well-rounded perspective to their viewers.

Terming it as "yellow journalism" might be strong, but it does raise questions about the thoroughness and fairness of their reporting. It's always essential for journalistic entities, even in the YouTube realm, to strive for accuracy and fairness, regardless of whether it's a formal "requirement" or not.

tbh even if they had reached out it wouldn't have made much of a difference imo

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, 3m3m said:

My last take is this. I honestly don't like the way LTT treat hardware. As someone that honestly needs and can't afford most of the stuff, LTT drop test is beyond my tolerance level. I registered to this forum because I saw that GN pulled a fast one for the cloud. We have to say no to this kind of stuff. We have to say GN why didn't you give LTT a call? Why did you go out of your way to nuke their channel while virtue signalling? GN wants to keep LTT accountable sure fine do that.

 

But we as a community, as a viewer and as a consumer need to keep GN accountable for their bad practices as well. No matter what GN say, the fact is they didn't allow LTT to comment. Social Balde showed us exactly why they didn't.

 

They created a perfect storm for LTT to sink their ship. That was their intent. For us, outsiders that are not fans of LTT or GN saw this. Right is right and wrong is wrong. I gave my argument and provided links and screenshots. You make up your own mind. But make sure it is your own opinion. If you believe GN did right by you. Then by all means give them credit. If you think LTT is working hard to do better and we all hope they are. Then by all means let's hope they do. 

 

But remember if you allow GN to create the rules for other journalism then every channel will mimic their underhanded strategy. That should not be acceptable because we end up losing. GN should be held responsible by the community and the community should demand GN respond with a proper explanation not just a "run down". If he is in the right it should not be a problem. But I stand by this. Noah Katz was asked to comment. Just let that sink in. Now ask yourself exactly what it is you are seeing.

 

Again I am here to point this out. I am going to bed now Have a good one and remember to think for yourself. Don't let others think for you.

This is a very level headed post!

 

I too am the same mind set as you and see it the exact same way. I am by no means saying that Linus /LTT are saints and do not need to be called out, they really did need this. However lets call a spade as spade. GN is not innocent in this by any means. He knows what he is doing, and is purposefully lowing his standard to essentially "get back at Linus LTT" for some random comment made by an Labs employee that was not explained/handled very well IMHO.... really are you really being that petty.

 

I've watched many of GN's videos and there are countless examples of where he has commented on the fact that they have reached out to x company for comment and showcased their response regardless if it was good, or bad. So he is capable and knows the proper process. The problem is, he is being selective on how he uses this approach. He doesn't want to talk to Linus, fine, but here's a bright idea, how about talk to someone else, I don't know....Terran the new CEO who he probably doesn't have a personal relationship, or some one else higher up, Luke, etc... There are many avenues he could have taken, but chose not to...

 

Lately I have started disliking GN and Steve particularity because it is very evident he is developing and/or already has a massive ego problem. He has zero issues calling out others, be it companies, or fellow media outlets, but he is incapable of taking on criticism directed towards him. If there is ever criticism directed towards him, he always makes a video outlining how they are wrong and I am right. If he and others want to accuse Linus of not taking responsibility, I think GN needs to take a serious look in the mirror. No one is perfect and he makes many mistakes as well.

 

Another thing I've noticed as well is he has no issues taking pot shots at other creators. He often does take pot shots towards Linus/LMG in his videos, look no further than his recent video on his new acoustic chamber. So I question, who is being the child here....? If Steve is incapable of taking an off handed comment (while in poor taste), but with no real malice intent, without going off the rails to destroy a company, I think over time, this will end up biting him as well.

 

Again before anyone says I am defending Linus/LMG, I am not. The quality of their videos have been in decline and lacking accuracy. This call out was needed, as they need to shape up and turn things around. That being said I am not going to pretend to ignore what GN is doing by being selective on when he wants to act with journalistic integrity, and when he chooses not to. You want to call out Linus and LMG for lacking consistency/accuracy fine, but you better well show constancy in your practises as well.

[Lurker_Letum]

22 minutes ago, 24Pinned said:

He's got a history of calling out bad actors. Bad computer manufacturers, bad retailers, bad assemblers, etc. If you watched the videos he addresses that. It's for the consumer. Because bad stuff should be called out before people spend money on it.

 

He tried giving LMG the opportunity before and was met with Trust Me Bro. After that he said he would only treat them like any other company. 

 

So when LMG posts bad data and gives recommendations on bad data you call that out. When you find out that it took to months for them to own up to the business owners that they sold their prototype (and did it by saying "good news, it's not on a shelf somewhere!" you call that out as well. And when you make a shit apology, complete with a timeline that shows you didn't do right by that company, you call that out. 

 

GN has already said he's not going to bother commenting on LMG anymore, but I hope someone does because today's apology video was tasteless. Three sponsor jokes, one reveal of the prototype cost (against the wishes of the affected party), and one really out of place sex joke. Yeah, LTT/LMG need to do better.

 

Everyone should hold them up to a higher standard. That means people on this forum with no real voice, and it means people in the media with a platform. 

He reached out for comment from Gigabyte for the PSU failures. He reached out to to Newegg for the customer issues. He reached out to fucken Noah Katz for being a fucken awful human being. Yet he treats LTT differently and decides to not reach out. This was personal when it shouldn't have been. It's also extra awful since LTT is a direct competitor to GN.

 

I'm still staying subscribed to GN since I enjoy there videos but I won't be buying the modmat this September like I intended to. 

Also not buying the LTT screwdriver with how much LTT fucked up.

 

At least Jay hasn't hasn't done anything awful that I know of.....yet.

[ACES284]

48 minutes ago, schwarzerrogen said:

I also can't quite understand where it's GN's job to comment on another content creator's business... is he an expert at commentary? I understand the need for transparency and accountability... but why is GN, a hardware review YT channel, deciding to go full TMZ about other YT channels out of nowhere?

Go to GN's youtube page and sort by popularity. The overwhelming majority of their high view content is based on "calling out" various things and general negativity. GN is really good at what they do but there's zero arguing that they feed and profit off negativity. You dont keep spamming content like that unless its just your thing or the financial incentive is high.

 

The first Linus vid from 2 days ago is already #4 all time in terms of view for them. The followup is not far behind. This is a channel that has been going for over a decade now. I understand that they're not monetizing the vid but there's no denying that they knew the shitstorm and attention this would kick up. Which ultimately helps their cause.

 

Below is a list of things that appear in their top 12ish most popular videos.

2. Walmart Gaming: Bigger scam than expected!

3. Dont buy a "gaming chair"

5. Incompetent Alienware!

6. One of the worst cases we've ever reviewed!

7. Inside the collapse of Artisian builds

11. Crazy Bad Alineware $5000 ripoff!

 

LTT is def in the wrong with all this but GN is not the holier than thou "doing this for the community" white knights that they love to portray themselves to be.

 

[bandainamcofan]

41 minutes ago, Biomancer81 said:

acts in unethical

Flat out wrong. There's no ethical obligation to reach out to the subject of a story for comment.