Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[Mr. Rabbit]

7 minutes ago, bandainamcofan said:

What fact wasn't presented?

I mean, the fact that they were on it already, and there was a mistake on Colton's part (on the same day that Billet contacted them) with trying to contact Billet to ask for the billing info to send the requested reimbursement?

 

It would change the narrative from "those damn thieves!!!!!" that was rolling around after the video, to "yeah, LTT really needs to sort out their shit, this is a bad mistake"

EDIT: in fact, it probably would alert them of the mistake on the 10th, instead of the 14th, when the video released.
It wouldn't change the important parts of the video: LTT needs to improve, they are making mistakes due to their crazy scheduling.

And it would leave no margin to calling out Steve's motivations, which are now put to question.

[eece_ret]

1 hour ago, IseeFractals said:

No one wants "a pound of flesh" 

What they want is accountability. They expect the face of the $100 million company to stop acting like a spoilt child anytime anyone points something out to them they hadn't thought of. 

When a reporter asks for comment before going to print/air....that presumes that anyone reading/watching the the coverage doesn't have any knowledge of "the other side" 

Everyone knows Linus position. They've already heard his response to the criticism. Over. and Over again. 

In the first minute of the video reviewing the "monoblock" Linus, himself describes it as "a one of a kind, utterly unique water block intended to cool both the CPU and graphics card as one" 

They discuss during the video that they've already agreed to send the block back because "it's obviously very important to their business"

When they get called out for selling the block Linus responds with "We didn't sell it, we auctioned it for charity" (because that somehow makes it better for the wronged party) 

Why would GN think it's beneficial to anyone but Linus to give him more chances to explain things away given that people like you take the position that "well Billet is obviously stupid, and everything is their fault because why would anyone send a prototype to the god king of tech coverage unless they're idiots"

Once money is involved their stance changes? 

You mean after said god king of tech coverage misuses, misrepresents, and shits all over your product before AUCTIONING IT OFF?  Yeah small wonder the circumstances have changed in their eyes. 

Everyone already heard Linus's honest unvarnished opinion "stupid, overpriced product that performs badly and no one should ever buy" and despite every issue raised along the way....people like you are still taking that stance to heart.Billet must be  stupid, greedy or somehow trying to scam...something somehow. 

You're not defending some 2 man operation with 200,000 subs who pumps out a video every week or two and struggles to reach 20k views a post. You're defending a $100 million corporation with 100 odd employees, 15 million subs, with views for every video in the millions who has personal and professional relationships with every major manufacturer they review.  One that for many, is the singular resource for everything tech related.  

Like it or not, the rules are different when you're playing at his level, with his audience, and his reach.

So many people are trying to justify everything being called out on the presumption that people are "smart enough to see through a business owner placating his audience" yet they somehow fail to grasp why so many are angry and frustrated with longstanding failures and bad behavior. 

From the guy with the $100 million empire.
 
But sure, we're all just here with our pitchforks basking in the schadenfreude.  


 

In their message, dated August 10, reply to Colton Billet Labs stipulates they intended for LMG to keep the block "because we thought it would be good for you to have it for future builds".  BIllet Labs originally intended to part ways with teh device.  Once Linus didn't like it and they weren't getting the exposure they wanted they decided they wanted it back.  Fine that's their prerogative.  But once its sold they change their mind again and say instead they want $$$'s citing they had made financial plans based on getting the device back.  All this in a whole whopping two weeks. The device they were originally going to leave with LMG... UH huh...  Sounds like bullshit to me and they are milking it, which fine, LMG mistake take them to the cleaners.  But dont expect me to call an ambulance chaser Clarence Darrow   

 

The pattern I see with you and people like you are statements "we all know what his response would be" , "we know his position" and a portrayal of LMG as some mega conglomerate crushing little people. They are a small business, and in a niche field they may look large they are not "the empire" and Linus isnt Palpatine.  You are simply trying to  justify being shitty and jumping on to the shit wagon.  Its a pretty common base human trait and is an easy thing to get caught up in.  Maybe reflect on why you seem upset at LMG or any other entities in your life, it may lead to a brighter tomorrow for your self and those around you.

 

[Duranu]

Just now, Lurker_Letum said:

 

That's pretty standard when a disgruntled employee leaves after alleged sexual abuse allegations or any other ethical allegation. Still remember all the ethical meetings I had when working for the government every time Trudeau got himself into another scandal. Like me, a minimum wage employee, is about to spend government money on a private jet for vacation lol.

That's true, but when these kinds of allegations come out, you can't say that "I was in a state of shock reading through these allegations, plain and simple. They aren’t consistent with my recollections." when you yourself called a mandatory meeting to discuss things related to those allegations at the time lol

[bandainamcofan]

1 minute ago, Mr. Rabbit said:

It would change the narrative from "those damn thieves!!!!!" that was rolling around after the video, to "yeah, LTT really needs to sort out their shit, this is a bad mistake"

Where in the video did GN say it was theft? LMG isn't even disputing the fact that they agreed to return it and it still was auctioned off. 

 

4 minutes ago, David_Campbell said:

why? why these things happened? thats the facts that were not presented!  did you not what to know why and how after the video???

The why isn't relevant to the fact that it was a major mistake that got made. There's no explanation that will justify selling off property that wasn't yours, especially after it was agreed to be returned.

[David_Campbell]

2 minutes ago, bandainamcofan said:

Where in the video did GN say it was theft? LMG isn't even disputing the fact that they agreed to return it and it still was auctioned off. 

 

The why isn't relevant to the fact that it was a major mistake that got made. There's no explanation that will justify selling off property that wasn't yours, especially after it was agreed to be returned.

no why? was it malice or a mistake is important, its why we have degrees of murder for example

[Lurker_Letum]

1 minute ago, Duranu said:

That's true, but when these kinds of allegations come out, you can't say that "I was in a state of shock reading through these allegations, plain and simple. They aren’t consistent with my recollections." when you yourself called a mandatory meeting to discuss things related to those allegations at the time lol

Remember one meeting after a disgruntled employee quit after they believed they were mistreated. It was complete bs but they made allegations that our boss was making rude comments and the workplace was toxic. If they came back and alleged that our boss smacked there ass and groped them then I imagine a "state of shock reading through these allegations" would be a pretty appropriate reaction. We don't know the internal allegations that prompted the meeting compared to the current ones.

 

What needs to happen is an official police investigation. Because if what she says is true then there needs to be legal repercussion. If she was lying then it needs to be known.

[Mr. Rabbit]

1 minute ago, bandainamcofan said:

Where in the video did GN say it was theft? LMG isn't even disputing the fact that they agreed to return it and it still was auctioned off. 

 

The why isn't relevant to the fact that it was a major mistake that got made. There's no explanation that will justify selling off property that wasn't yours, especially after it was agreed to be returned.

It was not in the video, but the narrative in the community was precisely that LTT stole it and was trying to kill a small company.

Getting LTT's side would show it for what it was: a stupid mistake that shouldn't have happened, and it was already being handled.

[bandainamcofan]

2 minutes ago, David_Campbell said:

no why? was it malice or a mistake is important, its why we have degrees of murder for example

The whole point of the video was that mistakes were being made, some leading to property that wasn't theirs to sell being sold. That's what was reported. You've still yet to show how this makes GN's actions unethical.

 

2 minutes ago, Mr. Rabbit said:

narrative in the community was precisely that

Not Steve's job to tell the community what to think. He stated the facts, which were mistakes led to someone else's property being sold. 

 

3 minutes ago, Mr. Rabbit said:

stupid mistake that shouldn't have happened,

The video shows that without needing LMG's comment. That's the whole point.

[kewtz]

I didn’t comb through all ~266 pages of posts. 

 

Some practical and gentle reminders for all of us: 

 

- In this context, we are all consumers or we are the product. Our viewership and engagements contribute to feeding the “machine” that LMG / LTT has scaled to. Remember to protect your own interest whether you are the product or consumer. 

 

- We have no responsibility, nor should we actively defend GN or LMG / LTT due to the above. Extreme-ist fans, or those that subscribe to blind, and really, meaningless loyalty, doesn’t help the community at all. 

 

- If any company desires to actually grow, they will do what is right by their consumers, even when we don’t notice the change. Continuous improvement is vital, especially to a company like LMG / LTT where economies of scale plays a factor in a business. What do I mean? I $1m company has to operate very differently than a $250m company. 

 

- Finally, don’t let company errors drive wedges in the community. You didn’t cause the error, you have no responsibility to defend the company. We can all critique, but do so constructively, with intent, and with purpose. 

[dragonuck76]

A few on here still want to make this issue a bigger thing than it is, and yet LMG video today helps clear up so much, yet those same few use that as another reason to claim false things... we now have LMG side and it makes it clear.... now time for GN to reply, if not then why not....

[TheOtherJohn]

34 minutes ago, RevengeofProfKatz said:

I don't have a record of selling peoples prototypes, or giving inaccurate performance metrics on product reviews, lying to an entire viewership that supports me, my channel, and my company, or cultivating a toxic as fuck, slave driving, sexually harassing cesspool of a workplace. So yeah, I'd say I'm better. Thanks for asking though clown.

You actually need to go take a break and chill for a bit; I feel you've become heightened and need a breath of fresh air.
I am genuinely concerned and hope your doing alright.

[theRockyRay]

I thought the LTT video was well done, other than accidentally leaking the price of the Waterblock even when they were asked not to (YIKES), but most of the team's apologies were just what I was looking for: they're working to fix it.

 

Linus, your apology wasn't the best. I get it, you want to make sure that you're not apologizing to being something worse than you actually are (the internet can be savage tbh). But to me it watered down the apology. However, I could tell it was your apology, instead of some pre-written corporate, filtered one. So points for that.

 

Although I didn't think your apology wasn't the best, I am a true believer that the best apology is action, not words. I believe you will do the right thing. The issue with Billet Labs, although definitely not handled perfectly, you and your team put in the work to make things right. The added context was good to know.

 

I feel like maybe I'm giving you a little more leeway because I'm a really big fan of your work. That's probably true. But I'm also a big believer in second chances, and I also know that just because a person or company makes a mistake, even if it's big, that doesn't make them a bad person or company.

 

It can be very easy in this world to lose our way, to get so invested in the dream that things get dropped, like review inaccuracies and quality drops. As long as we notice our problems and correct them, then I believe that you have redeemed yourself.

 

There are some amazing people in LMG, and I fully expect them to learn from this and become even better than the past. And although Linus may not be the best at apologies, I sincerely think he is sincere and tries his best to be a better person.

 

This may not matter what I say. I'm just a viewer. But I hope someone in LMG sees this and knows that even though they messed up big time, redemption is a real thing when you constantly try to do your best and fix mistakes.

[vannac]

3 hours ago, End User said:

Jeez. The damning evidence has been presented very clearly by both GN and, by his actions, Linus. LMG is a sh!tshow of bad vibes (to say the very least). Open you eyes.

And the internet is fucking NOTORIOUS for encouraging mob mentality and reactionary irrational thinking. I've watched Linus for many many years. Those of us who have been around for a long time know what LMG is about and we'll be here when LTT is back on the air.

[Chairman Boofy]

Yo Terren make Linus shut up and take a long vacation - the dude seriously can't help but make the situation worse for himself as he has no clue how to handle these situations appropriately. That's what CEOs are supposed to be for lol.

[MrStebe]

Created an account just for this. Figured I'd give my 2p worth 

 

I've been watching LTT since literally the second video he ever uploaded 14 years ago, I was watching the WAN show before it was even called the WAN show, I've probably been around longer than 99% of the community. Hell, I've been around longer than Luke has

 

Linus has definitely changed over the years, I would say most noticeably since Covid times, he seems to have gotten increasingly less concerned with what he says, the "Hot Takes" became more common and on the occasion he said something that crossed the line he's been spectacularly bad at handling the fallout.

 

And yet, not once have I ever doubted the mans intentions. Every scenario he's always made it right in the end, at least as far as I can tell.

 

We say he should learn from his mistakes, particularly reacting emotionally to things. But with every issue the noise gets louder. It's real easy to be calm and professional when you have 1 or 2 people criticizing you. Multiply that by 10,000, add in people calling you a "thief", "liar" and "scumbag" and see how well you'd react in this situation. I'd wager at least half of us would react the same or Linus as worse. He is only human

 

I think the original response on here was emotional and misguided, Linus should have waited for a clearer head.

 

But the video response is exactly what was needed. Every person in the management team, coming together and showing, collectively, they need to do better and laying out a plan for how they're going to do that. 

I understand why some people might take issue with the fake sponsor spots and Nick's references to the store and the screwdriver, but personally, I don't mind. Having something to lighten the mood in an otherwise pretty serious video can make it more digestible. I think a huge amount of people are missing that this was originally a case of some factual errors, a miscommunication around a water block and a boneheaded response to these from the face of the company. It wasn't actually a super deep issue.

 

But then Madison's tweets came out and the goal posts moved.

 

Speaking of which. Anyone who thinks LTT will acknowledge and respond to this clearly has no understanding of the actual working world. Allegations of this nature are incredibly severe, no legal department in their right mind would sign off on making comments about this. This kind of issue is not the kind of thing that should be played out in the public domain and much less in front of a community that at this point is more interested in sharpening pitchforks than actually having any kind of reasoned debate.

 

I make no judgement on the validity of Madison's claims. I've been watching for a long time but I'm under no impression I know the people or understand the inner workings of LTT, neither do 99% of people here. The correct thing to do is let this play out and hopefully the truth will come out and it will be handled in the right way. 

Trial by social media ain't that.

 

And that brings me on to Gamers Nexus. 

 

I'm sorry, but I just don't buy that this came from a place of wanting everyone to be better

 

I have no issues with his accuracy claims, I actually agree. But the fact he brought up conflicts of interest, whilst this entire piece is a conflict of interest. He's attacking a direct competitor in his space. A competitor that's suffering from issues that Gamers Nexus themselves have been through in the past.

 

Linus has admitted every conflict of interest he has, he disclosed the Framework investment before he did it, and has continued to do so ever since. Lack of transparency really isn't something you can level at LMG

 

Steve clearly likes to play savior for the tech space and act like he is beyond reproach, but all this showed me is that he's anything but.

The choice to frame LMG as "A Corporation" was done for no reason other than he knows it will rile up the "Corporation Bad" crowd.

Choosing not to reach out, when his own previous work show's this is a practice he believes in, was in my view, done in bad faith, because he had no interest in portraying both sides.

 

If he'd have just monetised the video and owned the fact he loves to engage in the drama because it's good for business, I'd have more respect for it. Just don't claim to be something your not.

 

Steve isn't a Journalist, he's an entertainer. Just like Linus.

 

@LinusTech If you see this, just know that there's some of us that have been supporting for a very long time and will continue to do so into the future. I don't expect you to be perfect, but I do hope you can do better. You guys aren't the scrappy upstarts fighting to survive anymore. Listen to your team, take on board what they have to say and take all the negativity of the last couple days and use it to come back better than ever.

 

TLDR (Sorry for the 10 part mini-series)

Linus did bad, but that does not make him a bad person

Don't judge the Madison situation until its properly investigated (Hopefully by a third party)

Gamers Nexus did this for the views and would get more respect if they owned that 

[starsmine]

The first four questions are relevant for this thread.

[Biomancer81]

5 hours ago, Mbmm said:

Well, if I recall correctly Steve doesn't always reach out for comment especially when information just hits. Second when people create publications / news it does not prevent people from reporting on what has happened, and then proceed to seek out further comment and information.

 

Someone has said this before but if you go to a store and have a less than stellar experience do you immediately ask to speak their manager or do you write a review about it? What if this is a repeat time of a less than stellar experience? Do you still ask for the same manager who potentially apologized earlier? LTT has essentially established a history of bungling something up, refusing to apologize, doubling down, "realizing they are wrong", and making an apology about it later. This doesn't even account to the hypocritical nature regarding adblocks/pirating. Steve is beyond perfect, but I will say just like Coffeezilla he does shed light on people doing wrong and wants them to correct the behavior.

 

I thinking reaching out to LTT in this instance would have just swept everything under the rug and they would have learned nothing. Heck, there isn't even proof that they learned anything even after this. I'd almost bet good money they have another mass issue so long as Linus refuses to go through a PR person.

Right, because when I read an article about... let say a mobster, and their comments are included, I immediately think, well gee, what thwy said completely invalidated the rest of it.

 

No, you think critically and respect the journalist for giving both sides of the issue. There is literally only one reason not to include the other side of a story, and that is because you have a reason to hide details from people who have the ability to think critically.

 

Literally even asking for a comment, whether it was answered or not, would have relieved this from Steve and GN, but they chose not to and it looks bad.

 

[TechDeckCAD]

5 minutes ago, Lurker_Letum said:

Along with the fact that there is a massive conflict of interest here and that Steve treated LTT differently from other companies he ran pieces on. Paints a bad image for GN. Not as bad as the image LTT has painted themselves so GN is lucky for that. But still not good either.

Where is this massive conflict of interest? Covering a story =/= conflict of interest. If anything, knowing the history LTT/LMG has with Stephen Burke, there's more of a conflict of interest if they were communicating.

When GN ran a piece on Artesian Build's shenanigans, Katz tried every opportunity to try to control the narrative about what happened, and why the shutdown had absolutely nothing to do with incompetence, and why the giveaway was fine (when it clearly wasn't). Katz tried to wine and dine GN, and GN rejected that.

[bandainamcofan]

1 minute ago, Biomancer81 said:

There is literally only one reason not to include the other side of a story, and that is because you have a reason to hide details from people who have the ability to think critically.

Flat out false.

 

Quote

There are many reasons a journalists may need or want to contact someone prior to publication – for example, to check facts, to seek further information, or to get comment − but the newspaper is not under a duty to contact every person involved in every story they write.

In fact, there are several reasons why they might not, for example:

• they may not be able to get into contact with the person
• a person’s comments may already be in the public domain
• the person may have asked the press not to contact them
• telling the person prior to publication may have an impact on the story
• it may be inappropriate to contact the person
• it may be impractical to contact everyone involved in the article.

 

[Lurker_Letum]

Message from LTT video today that shows on Aug 10 there was already discussion between LTT and Billet Labs about reimbursement, return of the 3090, and return of the prototype. Note that in the message sent by Felix he already acknowledges that he knows it was auctioned.

 

Comment by GN that Billet Labs didn't learn about this until August 11'th

 

Minor but one of the things that could of been cleared up had GN followed general journalistic practices and asked LTT for comment right before posting the video. But things like these would of make the video more positive and less of a hit piece. And we know hit pieces generate more subs/money.

 

If Steve wanted to avoid these allegations he should of treated LTT like he does any other corporation and asked for comment before posting the video. But instead he either was focused on getting a hit on the big guy for his own gain, or is ignorant on general journalist ethical practices. I don't know which is worse.

 

Edit: Going to nip this one in the bud before people reply.

I know the GN transcript says "around" but we are talking a few days before the video went live. So either Steve had the email chain with the exact date and decided not to show them. Or he took Billet Labs at face value and didn't ask for any form of proof. Either way is terrible journalistic practice and lends further proof that Steve was aiming for as much damage as he could get away with.

[starsmine]

Just now, Lurker_Letum said:

Message from LTT video today that shows on Aug 10 there was already discussion between LTT and Billet Labs about reimbursement, return of the 3090, and return of the prototype. Note that in the message sent by Felix he already acknowledges that he knows it was auctioned.

 

Comment by GN that Billet Labs didn't learn about this until August 11'th

 

Minor but one of the things that could of been cleared up had GN followed general journalistic practices and asked LTT for comment right before posting the video. But things like these would of make the video more positive and less of a hit piece. And we know hit pieces generate more subs/money.

 

If Steve wanted to avoid these allegations he should of treated LTT like he does any other corporation and asked for comment before posting the video. But instead he either was focused on getting a hit on the big guy for his own gain, or is ignorant on general journalist ethical practices. I don't know which is worse.

Let me ask you this.
WHAT time is it in London UK when it is 18:12 Pacific Standard time?
WHAT day is it in the UK?

[Biomancer81]

6 hours ago, throwawayManMode said:

They said nothing about the conflicts of interest, right?

Noctua, Asus, Frame Laptops, etc...

Steve, someone directly competing with LMG issuing a "report" about their competitor. You know, conflict of interest.

[Lurker_Letum]

8 minutes ago, starsmine said:

Let me ask you this.
WHAT time is it in London UK when it is 18:12 Pacific Standard time?
WHAT day is it in the UK?

Email from Felix at 10:31AM vancouver time on Aug 10 already acknowledging the charity auction. That would be 6:31PM in the UK on Aug 10. And the email from Felix was already responding to an earlier email. Can't tell when the earlier email came but either way it would of been on the 10'th at the latest.

 

Edit: Email to Felix shows local time for Felix. Which was 18:12 which would 6:12PM. Email reply from Felix show local time for LTT which was 10:31AM or 6:31PM for Felix.

[TechDeckCAD]

17 minutes ago, Biomancer81 said:

Right, because when I read an article about... let say a mobster, and their comments are included, I immediately think, well gee, what thwy said completely invalidated the rest of it.

 

No, you think critically and respect the journalist for giving both sides of the issue. There is literally only one reason not to include the other side of a story, and that is because you have a reason to hide details from people who have the ability to think critically.

 

Literally even asking for a comment, whether it was answered or not, would have relieved this from Steve and GN, but they chose not to and it looks bad.

Journalists are literally not obligated to ask questions to the other side, especially when said comments already existed in the public domain, but you ignore this and keep harping on the "you need to have a record from the other side no matter what." That's why I asked you what new content do you think Stephen would've gotten if he went to LTT/LMG to ask.

[ThousandBlade]

https://youtu.be/XH6zCNR0SZ4

I don't know how to feel about this. But I fear that getting this much mainstream attention might not be great for the forum. 

I've always had the mindset where at some point in any community, the more people you include into it, the worse it gets.

Part of the reason why I've always had nostalgic feelings towards the early internet days when only a small portion of the population was on it all the time. The whole thing really went downhill as soon as internet got so popular and integrated into everyday life. 

 

Now with this getting covered by such a mainstream youtuber, we might get a influx of normies in this forum. Which will ruin the friendly vibe we currently have. God forbit they decided to stick around even after the controversy ends. I have no problem if they share the same interest in tech, but that might not be the case for all of them that finds it's way here. 

Thoughts?