Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[saintlouisbagels]

2 minutes ago, jubjub said:

They didn't address the Madison situation at all

1 minute ago, GotWeez said:

They aren't ever going to publicly address the Madison situation at all. Labor laws and such.

There was a WAN Show where Linus discussed an ex-employee who really wanted to know why they were let go from the company. Linus stressed that he really wanted to tell them, but due to labor laws, he couldn't.

[BorkBorkBork]

This entire debacle is what happens when you don't have a strong PR plan in place. The internet is truly a dogshit place. There are people in the comments on the subreddit saying "Linus should lose custody of his kids over this" and incel morons with the classic "what if woman is lying cause woman???" takes all over these forums.

Hopefully obvious trolling aside, it's actually insane how poorly this entire saga reflects on everyone involved, including (especially) this audience. GamersNexus should have reached out for comment re: the block. It's pretty clear that situation was not malicious but rather plain stupid and would've been easily fixed by an earnest email. His video would've been just as accurate with that context or leaving it out altogether and only talking about the data accuracy issues (which warrant discussion). These forums and the subreddit look like a train wreck because everyone prefers drama and "THEY SHOULD SUE HIM FOR EVERYTHING" over a simple "actually it's nuanced and pretty clearly an honest if shitty mistake."

Accidents, mistakes, oversights, even critical HR mistakes are almost never malicious. I tend to believe everything Madison says is her truth - and I can easily see why a company full of people who have no idea what they're doing would make some of the very poor decisions it sounds like they made. It's very clear that LMG is in way over their head in running a business this size. That doesn't mean LMG shouldn't be held accountable, but it also doesn't mean we get to advocate for "taking kids away" or public lashings or ruining lives or whatever. 

This is not excusing any of what's happened, but this entire saga is what happens when an online community gets to run rampant and a company doesn't know how to effectively manage their communications. A good internal and external communications plan would have made this whole thing smoother from start to finish.

The apology video was needed. The story in the Verge is needed. Honesty is needed from LMG, but grace is also needed from those expressing opinions, whether audience member or fellow YouTuber.

inb4 "so they can ruin businesses but we can't???!?" and "cAn LinUS gEt ArrestEd for ThEFTT???" and other assorted nonsense that proves this point.

[Dom1252]

9 minutes ago, 3m3m said:

Wonder if GN is going to do a follow-up video. Maybe explain why they didn't contact LTT for comment? This essentially burned GN for me. But I think GN is happy about the 3.4+ million views on the first video and the 1.6 million views on the second video. And with their new 2.01M subs. He profited big time on subs. He might not have profited from the video BUT he will see a good revenue return on the next videos he does monetise.

 

 

 

They did make follow up where Steve explained exactly why he didn't go to LMG 

[Sarra]

10 minutes ago, End User said:

Nepotism at a company is never a good sign.

I don't want to be rude, but this comment is not helpful, nor relevant to this situation. Unless there is something I'm not aware of.

[TheKDub]

Just now, saintlouisbagels said:

There was a WAN Show where Linus discussed an ex-employee who really wanted to know why they were let go from the company. Linus stressed that he really wanted to tell them, but due to labor laws, he couldn't.

Labor laws prohibiting an employer from telling their former employee why they were let go? That doesn't sound right...

[uberDoward]

36 minutes ago, MedievalMatt said:

So wait, if they are taking a week off of making content... no WAN show?

I still like the idea of Luke, Dan, Tarran, so the WAN show goes on!

 

Linus needs a break.  I think Yvonne really hit that on the head - they do not need to keep on the throttle like they are in startup mode.

[andreimj]

4 minutes ago, jubjub said:

They didn't address the Madison situation at all, provided no apology to GN, Linus used the same deflection tactic of "here are people being unhinged" instead of sticking to addressing the issues and the jokes + lttstore plug rubbed some people the wrong way.

Not saying I agree with all those as reasons to dislike the video but I understand why people might see them as reasons to be unhappy. Personally without an apology to GN I refuse to accept that Linus actually believes he was in the wrong and I believe he likely still believes that some of what he said was right.

LMG hired an outside investigator to examine the allegations. What more do you want? The video was recorded before Madison chose to go public

[Dom1252]

1 minute ago, TheKDub said:

Labor laws prohibiting an employer from telling their former employee why they were let go? That doesn't sound right...

Because it's a lie

[saintlouisbagels]

5 minutes ago, TheKDub said:

Labor laws prohibiting an employer from telling their former employee why they were let go? That doesn't sound right...

I imagine it's more of tangential law that protects the employer/employee from lawsuit or whatever, but it has resulted in the unintended consequence not telling someone why they were let go or about their performance. idk man, it's from a WAN Show from forever ago.

Edited August 16, 2023 by saintlouisbagels

[andreimj]

2 minutes ago, Dom1252 said:

Because it's a lie

"Labor laws prohibiting an employer from telling their former employee why they were let go? That doesn't sound right..."

She wasn't fired, she quit

[jubjub]

1 minute ago, andreimj said:

LMG hired an outside investigator to examine the allegations. What more do you want? The video was recorded before Madison chose to go public

Did you read the part where I was explaining why people were upset not why I was upset? Also the absolute irony of this starting because they refused to delay videos in order to fix errors yet your defence being they already recorded the video. That's literally the whole damn issue that started this all.

I don't even disagree that the video isn't the place to address those issues but there should have been an acknowledgement at the very least.

[Dom1252]

Just now, andreimj said:

"Labor laws prohibiting an employer from telling their former employee why they were let go? That doesn't sound right..."

She wasn't fired, she quit

Point me to the specific law

[andreimj]

Just now, jubjub said:

Did you read the part where I was explaining why people were upset not why I was upset? Also the absolute irony of this starting because they refused to delay videos in order to fix errors yet your defence being they already recorded the video. That's literally the whole damn issue that started this all.

I don't even disagree that the video isn't the place to address those issues but there should have been an acknowledgement at the very least.

How it can be acknoledgment when she went public after they recorded the video. The issue in question happened over two years ago

[Sarra]

Just now, Dom1252 said:

Point me to the specific law

What, about... Quitting?

[andreimj]

1 minute ago, Dom1252 said:

Point me to the specific law

I put the quotes, as that comment is not mine. Soebody else said that. I wanted to say that she wasn't fired but she quit. I included that for context

[jubjub]

1 minute ago, andreimj said:

How it can be acknoledgment when she went public after they recorded the video. The issue in question happened over two years ago

She posted the tweets BEFORE the video released. They can simply not publish the video then go back and add to it. Publishing the video despite the tweets coming out is a decision, their hands were not tied.

[Neroon]

So I just looked at the Pwnage mouse video, which is still up btw, and while they have changed the text of the pinned comment, they still claim it didn't change enough of David's conclusion.

 

I mean seriously guys, why are you still tone deaf? I get, he might still not look at it favourable enough, but you cannot just cut out parts and dismiss it as good enough, because he still isn't a fan...
I get that he might still not like it, but it's the same argument as with the cooler block and so many other videos, yes it may not change a lot, but the video is still based on a non full experience, and in this case it will have changed the whole video. No matter how much I like or dislike a mouse, if it slides crappy, it will make the whole experience worse.

I would honestly just take down the video, maybe make a new one, get someone else to try it out, or have 1 new person and David do it together, or I don't know, but this just feels bad.

[andreimj]

1 minute ago, jubjub said:

She posted the tweets BEFORE the video released. They can simply not publish the video then go back and add to it. Publishing the video despite the tweets coming out is a decision, their hands were not tied.

I don't agree with you. This happened two years ago and her quitting was commented on the WAN show, or so I saw people writing on here

[jubjub]

1 minute ago, andreimj said:

I don't agree with you. This happened two years ago and her quitting was commented on the WAN show, or so I saw people writing on here

You don't agree that tweets were posted hours before the video released? That's literally a hard verifiable fact anyone can see.

[JustChilliing]

1 minute ago, TheKDub said:

Labor laws prohibiting an employer from telling their former employee why they were let go? That doesn't sound right...

I believe the 'crowd' wished to know why the employee was let go, not the person. It is convinient that one side of the party cannot disclose legally why someone was let go, they cannot defend their side from it. And before I get 'corrected' I am not saying that anyone is wrong, but you can't avoid bias if you only have one side of a story. We may only ever hear one side, and that is not a fair state to be in, no matter the scenario. 

 

7 minutes ago, BorkBorkBork said:

The apology video was needed. The story in the Verge is needed. Honesty is needed from LMG, but grace is also needed from those expressing opinions, whether audience member or fellow YouTuber.

 

Wrong or right, I find it peculiar that the entire world seems to be dumping on Linus in particular at the moment. And if we are concerned about one induviduals mental health, why are aren't we concerned about anothers? Allow him to correct his business. We are all obviously (according to comments all over the internet) expecting him to continue to be Linus; we can expect better, but we don't need to burn him at the stake for it. As for GN, they've definately profited from this debacle. I was a massive fan, particularly impressed with their coverage of the 7800X3D issues recently. And if it wasn't got GN, we wouldn't think twice about the issues on LTT. God forbid GN makes a mistake in the future.

 

But just how GN went about the reporting of this (as necessary as it was) hasn't sat right with me for the last 24 hours, depite obviously being a million times removed from the entire ordeal. When GN (or any of the great community guys) call out Intel or whoever, why does the internet not fall over denying them their fantastic profits etc? But because it's Linus, we can poop on his door mat all day. Who gives crap, right? 

 

Just doesn't sit right with me. 

[mMontana]

It will be a long post. Bear with me.

I am not able to split this quote without quoting every paragraph. Please, consider to read italic writing as my personal opinion on this post.

 

 

5 hours ago, 1982 Original said:

GN should have monetized their video. They have employees to pay and a business to run. As does LTT, who won’t see a week of YouTube revenue. GN didn’t monetize because of optics and for some people in the community might put GN on a morale high ground. 
You have the right to this opinion, however you don't have editorial control on GN content.

You can define his choice "not ideal", but was in pursuit (IMVHO) to focus on content, not on monetization, knowin that would be considered as a back-stabbing move.

 

GN clearly has a vendetta against LTT. This is their 2nd take-down in just a matter of months. GN can state truths about how LTT is running their business and it can also be personal, both of those things can be true at the same time. 
I cannot say if you're correct or not. 

GN IMHO highlighted some behaviour from Creator Warehouse (the company who sell goods) and Linus Media Group (the company who release content) that in my opinion was represented in fair, precise and objective way.

Mr Sebastian got pissed both time? He's an adult.

 

The backpack take-down was especially petty. GN had their own issues with their mod-matt, had to fix it, then came up with a warranty after the fact. Then to leverage a take-down on LTT as they were working through their own issue with the caribeaner on their backpack is petty. GN could have easily said, “here’s how we handled our mod-matt mess-up.”  

I don't agree that the criticism against the "no warranty policy" declared by Mr Sebastian during WAN Show at the beginning was petty.
250USD for a backpack is an hefty price, even if it's deserved, and any product competing with that backpack had warranty policy. If you don't like the callout, that's fair. But callout was not something to piss off Creator Warehouse, rather protect their (possible) customers.
In one of the latest WAN Shows, Mr Sebastian proudly remarked 38.000 backpacks sold. at 250 USD par piece, it's close to 10 million dollars of revenue for this product only.

 

In this case, GN only just published how they internally handle video errors. Then to immediately turn around and criticize LTT is petty. Accurate, but petty. All of these YouTubers have the same problems, GN fixes their’s, just to turn around to blast LTT and no one else (other YouTubers).

Yes... but no. The group has a parent company for a streming service, a parent company for merchandise design, sell and delivery.

Currently LMG is quite a unicorn for tech channels, for size, societary structure and correlated companies. The things are not the same, the companies are note the same kind.
 

Steve screamed personal relationships don’t matter here, yet has various other personal relationships across YouTube, Hardware Unboxed, Wendell, Jay, Buildzoid, Derbauer. The other Steve from HUB said they talk weekly. The relationship with Linus just meant nothing clearly. Something happened in the past to put Linus in Steve’s crosshairs is my guess. 

I tend to agree about that. I'm personally confident that if Thermal Grizzly do something wrong with products or customer service, and GN get gist and details about that, GN will expose this in the same way.
Audience is the only revenue source for any kind of YT entity: I'm not speaking about the revenues from ads, but no sponsor would do any kind of contract if the creator do not reach the correct size for sponsors.

 

[andreimj]

2 minutes ago, Neroon said:

So I just looked at the Pwnage mouse video, which is still up btw, and while they have changed the text of the pinned comment, they still claim it didn't change enough of David's conclusion.

 

I mean seriously guys, why are you still tone deaf? I get, he might still not look at it favourable enough, but you cannot just cut out parts and dismiss it as good enough, because he still isn't a fan...
I get that he might still not like it, but it's the same argument as with the cooler block and so many other videos, yes it may not change a lot, but the video is still based on a non full experience, and in this case it will have changed the whole video. No matter how much I like or dislike a mouse, if it slides crappy, it will make the whole experience worse.

I would honestly just take down the video, maybe make a new one, get someone else to try it out, or have 1 new person and David do it together, or I don't know, but this just feels bad.

Who the hell puts protective film on their mouse pads and doesn't instruct it's users to take them off. It's absurd. I think I bought more than 20 mouses in my life and never have I ever had to peel protective film from the mouse before use

[Dom1252]

11 minutes ago, Sarra said:

What, about... Quitting?

That one Linus talked about 

[Godiwa]

9 minutes ago, jubjub said:

She posted the tweets BEFORE the video released. They can simply not publish the video then go back and add to it. Publishing the video despite the tweets coming out is a decision, their hands were not tied.

they said what they COULD say to that case TWO YEARS AGO... the end... they don't need to add anything to the video about that... ancient case... public was answered then and it's still out there and someone even posted it on the forum today...

So stop acting like you are entitled for anything... You are not... and for legal reasons they can't go into details... which is what they said more elaborately

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Dom1252 said:

They did make follow up where Steve explained exactly why he didn't go to LMG 

Here is the problem with that "follow up" GN  "made the news" GN did not "report on it". He created the story, set the narrative and then manipulated the situation so that GN can sling mud all day and get away with it.

 

I can't see GN in a good light anymore. To be clear I am not subbed to LTT. But right is right and wrong is wrong and no matter how they butter the situation it is still wrong to do what they did. Imagine for a moment it was GN that got hit by something like this. Do you think they would not ask for an opportunity to comment?

 

But I do believe in what goes around comes around and GN will never be able to make a mistake because there will be a million YouTube channels reporting on it doing the exact same thing to them. Why? Because GN set the standard for this type of conduct.

 

But then there is This. So the video wasn't monetized, right? YouTube Stats Summary / User Statistics for Gamers Nexus (2023-08-03 - 2023-08-16)

I wonder why Socialbalde think they did. Guess it is a bug? But we can now blow it out of proportion but at least we give him a benefit of a doubt.