Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[MrSuperb]

4 minutes ago, NickR1978 said:

No, fanboy, I felt compelled to start an account reading about it while standing in a checkout line with my groceries, because it's exactly the kind of Internet drama people such as yourself like to latch onto, as if defending terrible behavior somehow makes you part of their team, and not just someone they're trying to sell things to with poorly researched content, however nice you think the pretty neon colors in their videos look. Clearly this place, and business, needs more adults in the room. Good luck to whoever takes on that job.

I am not defending anyone. I am just tired of people posting the same things over and over again in an lmg forum. Also all the calls to cancel subscriptions and stop buying things from lmg are just bs. If you don’t want to support them or watch the anymore just don’t and leave. Everything else is just toxicity.

[1982 Original]

39 minutes ago, mMontana said:

It will be a long post. Bear with me.

I am not able to split this quote without quoting every paragraph. Please, consider to read italic writing as my personal opinion on this post.

 

 

 

I'm not even sure how to respond to any of your nonsensical response.  Most of the time you don't actually take into account what I said and the rest of the time you posted wrong information.  You completely disregarded anything I said.  For example: GN criticized LTT for not having a warranty.  That is hypocritical of GN as they DID NOT HAVE A WARRANTY EITHER... when they went through their mod-matt troubles.  Steve made it right and then afterwards made a warranty, afterwards.  Yet Steve still decided to do a take-down of Linus even though Linus was already working on fixing the caribbeaners and replacing them free of charge.  

 

This current event, Steve has been working on a calling out Linus for months (his words), GN also said they published their process to deal with errors not too long ago (his words).  Once again, Steve chose to do a take-down on Linus for things he himself just addressed in his own company.  The only thing that hasn't come out is why Steve is so bitter.  My guess is that Linus "one-ups" everything GN has going on.  Only a guess.

 

Proceed with your trolling.

[IseeFractals]

4 hours ago, eece_ret said:

When part of the problem is people looking for a pound of flesh you get responses like this.

Why the community so incensed by this situation Ill never know its not like it was your water block.  Linus didn't make a video to swindle you into buying something, its YT Computer PC editorials people calm the F.

 

Pertaining to journalism as thats what Steve is purporting to be and standards he espuses to hold himself to.  Asking for comment is the proper path here.  Not asking for a comment for fear of " it's going to give Linus an opportunity to "get ahead of it" and trot out"  only demonstrates someone looking for blood and exercising gotchya "journalism".  Your writing and Steve methods demonstrate that pretty clearly, only reinforced by "It would result in a weakened position for GN for absolutely no gain".  Steve was not the harmed party in any way here.  He is a competitor to LMG, his only position should be that of reporter.  Again, you just looking for blood bro.

 

The REASON you ask for comment before publishing is so you can report both sides, the audience is smart enough (well sans present company...) to see through a business owner placating an audience when the harmed party is standing there with evidence to the contrary.  ie most of us are not that F'ing stupid or naïve to take placations at face value.  Billet Labs doesnt have their water block, LTT sold it... Cant really argue that its factual.   The audience can also evaluate a company that was dumb enough to send what is allegedly a super pricey one of a kind, business depends on it for survival  device to a MEDIA outlet with zero Terms and Conditions signed and agreed to PRIOR to discharge to said MEDIA outlet.  They only asked for it back after Linus dumped on it, which is telling in its own right.  I would not at all be surprised if their orginial plan was to leave it with LMG to get some additional free exposure.  When that exposure was not what they wanted they ask for it back.  At minumum they are dumb,  I don't know how dumb, but such stupidity is usually obfuscating motive.

To support this, you see, that once money is involved their story changes, now its not a one of a kind we cant survive without, but rather "Nevermind, dont want or need it, give us the dough to fund gen2.0 waterblock".    Thats pretty transparent and an obvious 180 degree change of course from how Steve presented the harm to BIllet Labs, and how Billet Labs characterized it on Reddit.  Its an obvious money grab to fund their activities, which is their prerogative, losing the equipment was LMG's mistake, now LMG gotta pay up.  Its really that simple.

 

Anecdotally pertaining to requests for comment from both sides.  A great example are local news stations picking up a story of some person getting screwed by a local business.  The reporter ALWAYS interviews (or attempts to interview) the business in question to address the concerns of the person getting screwed.  

Those interviews are usually the meat of the article to be honest as you see the business owner having to explain in real time the screw up.

 

Steve didnt do that, and people like you are cheering it on, pitchforks and torches in hand.  ITs gotchya journalism with little desire to inform the audience but rather trolling the audience to illicit a response.

 

Id like to see Steve eat his own dog food on this one review this waterblock and have an interview with both parties (LMG and B_L) and lets go from there.

 

 

 

 

No one wants "a pound of flesh" 

What they want is accountability. They expect the face of the $100 million company to stop acting like a spoilt child anytime anyone points something out to them they hadn't thought of. 

When a reporter asks for comment before going to print/air....that presumes that anyone reading/watching the the coverage doesn't have any knowledge of "the other side" 

Everyone knows Linus position. They've already heard his response to the criticism. Over. and Over again. 

In the first minute of the video reviewing the "monoblock" Linus, himself describes it as "a one of a kind, utterly unique water block intended to cool both the CPU and graphics card as one" 

They discuss during the video that they've already agreed to send the block back because "it's obviously very important to their business"

When they get called out for selling the block Linus responds with "We didn't sell it, we auctioned it for charity" (because that somehow makes it better for the wronged party) 

Why would GN think it's beneficial to anyone but Linus to give him more chances to explain things away given that people like you take the position that "well Billet is obviously stupid, and everything is their fault because why would anyone send a prototype to the god king of tech coverage unless they're idiots"

Once money is involved their stance changes? 

You mean after said god king of tech coverage misuses, misrepresents, and shits all over your product before AUCTIONING IT OFF?  Yeah small wonder the circumstances have changed in their eyes. 

Everyone already heard Linus's honest unvarnished opinion "stupid, overpriced product that performs badly and no one should ever buy" and despite every issue raised along the way....people like you are still taking that stance to heart.Billet must be  stupid, greedy or somehow trying to scam...something somehow. 

You're not defending some 2 man operation with 200,000 subs who pumps out a video every week or two and struggles to reach 20k views a post. You're defending a $100 million corporation with 100 odd employees, 15 million subs, with views for every video in the millions who has personal and professional relationships with every major manufacturer they review.  One that for many, is the singular resource for everything tech related.  

Like it or not, the rules are different when you're playing at his level, with his audience, and his reach.

So many people are trying to justify everything being called out on the presumption that people are "smart enough to see through a business owner placating his audience" yet they somehow fail to grasp why so many are angry and frustrated with longstanding failures and bad behavior. 

From the guy with the $100 million empire.
 
But sure, we're all just here with our pitchforks basking in the schadenfreude.  


 

[Godiwa]

25 minutes ago, 3m3m said:

You call LTT lazy, I call it a growing business. You call GN hard working and he can't pick up the phone and call someone and ask to set the record straight. But he can give someone like Noah Catz the benefit of the doubt? You are seriously willing to believe that? Then that is on you.

he still doesn't have to call them... ppl need to stop thinking he does... it's been discussed all day... he did not need to CALL Linus first... so just stop that BS insinuation that he did... it's gotten real old already...

[jubjub]

2 minutes ago, stflames01 said:

lol, but he has said he was wrong and GN has reached out to others for comment before and expose' (Newegg, the other now forgotten pc building company) so Linus assuming he would get one isn't so outrageous here. Of course, GN can choose not to, which they decided not to so now what's the issue again? Steve made this a huge deal when it realistically didn't have to be. There was no big scandal. LMG made a mistake. Oops. They are trying to fix it. Thats all. And yes, lol, they are a larger company but that doesn't mean things can't be lost in the bureaucratic pipelines. Shit happens and with all the exponential growth, its happening a bit more frequently so they are playing catch up. Thats it. You guys should chill with the pitchforks already

That's a lot of words to not say very much.

Steve's video was the easiest layup ever and he gave Linus the perfect opportunity to address issues in a mature healthy way that would give everyone confidence in the company and its future especially re labs. You might not like Steve's very up front style (which isn't unique to that video) but he gave Linus a specific list of things that have happened and needed to be improved on leaving it up to Linus to produce a response that the community could rally behind. The response Linus gave is what made the video look damning, not the video itself.

[schwarzerrogen]

I also can't quite understand where it's GN's job to comment on another content creator's business... is he an expert at commentary? I understand the need for transparency and accountability... but why is GN, a hardware review YT channel, deciding to go full TMZ about other YT channels out of nowhere?

[Erik_]

Been following LTT for years and never really noticed much of the things that GN pointed out. Now that I am aware of it I really dislike LTT.

 

Conflict of interest, disrespect, and recklessness.

 

What is the value of the LTT videos? Entertainment, sure, but for reviews and product info like I have trusted them for is without any value.

 

The way Billet Labs was treated is just horrendous, and the way Linus took a crap in their face at every chance instead of taking one of many opportunities to make things better has made me loose all respect for Linus and LTT. The damage done is massive, and I hope LTT gets some karma for this.

 

And the lying, Linus, what's up with that?

 

I hope LTT gets the karma they deserve for all the crap they unjustly took on others.

[Guest]

My last take is this. I honestly don't like the way LTT treat hardware. As someone that honestly needs and can't afford most of the stuff, LTT drop test is beyond my tolerance level. I registered to this forum because I saw that GN pulled a fast one for the cloud. We have to say no to this kind of stuff. We have to say GN why didn't you give LTT a call? Why did you go out of your way to nuke their channel while virtue signalling? GN wants to keep LTT accountable sure fine do that.

 

But we as a community, as a viewer and as a consumer need to keep GN accountable for their bad practices as well. No matter what GN say, the fact is they didn't allow LTT to comment. Social Balde showed us exactly why they didn't.

 

They created a perfect storm for LTT to sink their ship. That was their intent. For us, outsiders that are not fans of LTT or GN saw this. Right is right and wrong is wrong. I gave my argument and provided links and screenshots. You make up your own mind. But make sure it is your own opinion. If you believe GN did right by you. Then by all means give them credit. If you think LTT is working hard to do better and we all hope they are. Then by all means let's hope they do. 

 

But remember if you allow GN to create the rules for other journalism then every channel will mimic their underhanded strategy. That should not be acceptable because we end up losing. GN should be held responsible by the community and the community should demand GN respond with a proper explanation not just a "run down". If he is in the right it should not be a problem. But I stand by this. Noah Katz was asked to comment. Just let that sink in. Now ask yourself exactly what it is you are seeing.

 

Again I am here to point this out. I am going to bed now Have a good one and remember to think for yourself. Don't let others think for you.

[andreimj]

1 minute ago, Erik_ said:

Been following LTT for years and never really noticed much of the things that GN pointed out. Now that I am aware of it I really dislike LTT.

 

Conflict of interest, disrespect, and recklessness.

 

What is the value of the LTT videos? Entertainment, sure, but for reviews and product info like I have trusted them for is without any value.

 

The way Billet Labs was treated is just horrendous, and the way Linus took a crap in their face at every chance instead of taking one of many opportunities to make things better has made me loose all respect for Linus and LTT. The damage done is massive, and I hope LTT gets some karma for this.

 

And the lying, Linus, what's up with that?

 

I hope LTT gets the karma they deserve for all the crap they unjustly took on others.

If you need another youtuber to tell you what to think....i can only say it's a good thing that you recently discovered how much you hate LTT

[Godiwa]

3 minutes ago, schwarzerrogen said:

I also can't quite understand where it's GN's job to comment on another content creator's business... is he an expert at commentary? I understand the need for transparency and accountability... but why is GN, a hardware review YT channel, deciding to go full TMZ about other YT channels out of nowhere?

because if you haven't noticed it they always point out when companies does shitty things for the consumer... which LMG was/is doing... shitty/fake/wrong results and conclusions that can mislead people both into buying something that isn't as good as claimed (300% performance gain on the GPU test) or claim a mouse is utterly useless.... when it is the tester himself that is utterly useless... both cases hurt the consumer

viewers(consumers) have complained about it for atleast 2 years now... and Linus has brushed it off everytime...

now he got a wakeup call he couldn't just ignore because another sizeable channel called out the shenanigans... and when all those that have been bamboozled finds out what they thought was trustworthy reviews is pure garbage... then there is the uproar you see here...

and little fanbois like yourself is totally unhappy because someone told the truth about your lord saviour Linus

GN has gone after multiple companies with exploding powersupplies, self-igniting cases, burning graphicscards, bad warrenties and scamming winners from their price etc. etc. and LMG is just another large company... that did a poor job on their "customers" the viewers feeding them incorrect information...

information was served, with a dose of proof... and all the fanbois cries foul... and goes after the messenger instead of listening to the facts and demand that the issues are corrected...

end of story...

[Lagonas]

3 minutes ago, 3m3m said:

My last take is this. I honestly don't like the way LTT treat hardware. As someone that honestly needs and can't afford most of the stuff, LTT drop test is beyond my tolerance level. I registered to this forum because I saw that GN pulled a fast one for the cloud. We have to say no to this kind of stuff. We have to say GN why didn't you give LTT a call? Why did you go out of your way to nuke their channel while virtue signalling? GN wants to keep LTT accountable sure fine do that.

 

But we as a community, as a viewer and as a consumer need to keep GN accountable for their bad practices as well. No matter what GN say, the fact is they didn't allow LTT to comment. Social Balde showed us exactly why they didn't.

 

They created a perfect storm for LTT to sink their ship. That was their intent. For us, outsiders that are not fans of LTT or GN saw this. Right is right and wrong is wrong. I gave my argument and provided links and screenshots. You make up your own mind. But make sure it is your own opinion. If you believe GN did right by you. Then by all means give them credit. If you think LTT is working hard to do better and we all hope they are. Then by all means let's hope they do. 

 

But remember if you allow GN to create the rules for other journalism then every channel will mimic their underhanded strategy. That should not be acceptable because we end up losing. GN should be held responsible by the community and the community should demand GN respond with a proper explanation not just a "run down". If he is in the right it should not be a problem. But I stand by this. Noah Katz was asked to comment. Just let that sink in. Now ask yourself exactly what it is you are seeing.

 

Again I am here to point this out. I am going to bed now Have a good one and remember to think for yourself. Don't let others think for you.

For someone asking me to think for myself and not let others think for me, you just fed me a whole load of stuff you want me to accept.

[Dohregard]

18 hours ago, HiTechLowSpec said:

You have absolutely no idea that is the fact of the matter. To say it's not relevant is your opinion. Please state how many years you have been married to your CFO and I'll decide how much weight I give your opinion.

What's hilarious is Yvonne came out and said "I told him not to do it" making this a pretty funny moment for me.

[Blademaster91]

3 minutes ago, schwarzerrogen said:

I also can't quite understand where it's GN's job to comment on another content creator's business... is he an expert at commentary? I understand the need for transparency and accountability... but why is GN, a hardware review YT channel, deciding to go full TMZ about other YT channels out of nowhere?

It was partly because LMG attacked them first,  their labs engineer claiming they do better benchmarking, even though LMG still manages to get lots of things wrong in their videos.  For example see their "Why is everyone buying this mic" video, they couldn't even do the mic testing correctly but went ahead and put up data and graphs anyway, and the spelling mistakes are simply unacceptable. And then Linus went to attack them on the WAN show, he didn't name GN but you can obviously tell who he was talking about.

Why is LTT, a channel with video quality that has been going down hill for a long time now, also making videos mostly about playing with expensive things or making things like a game controller made of gold or a $100,000 gaming desk claiming they're better than a hardware reviewer that has a reputation for making good reviews? It seems like LMG is jealous and trying to punch down at GN and HW Unboxed because they are making content with good data that people want to see, and they didn't have to spend millions on a fancy lab building to do that either.

 

[Awsmkiid13]

2 minutes ago, Godiwa said:

because if you haven't noticed it they always point out when companies does shitty things for the consumer... which LMG was/is doing... shitty/fake/wrong results and conclusions that can mislead people both into buying something that isn't as good as claimed (300% performance gain on the GPU test) or claim a mouse is utterly useless.... when it is the tester himself that is utterly useless... both cases hurt the consumer

viewers(consumers) have complained about it for atleast 2 years now... and Linus has brushed it off everytime...

now he got a wakeup call he couldn't just ignore because another sizeable channel called out the shenanigans... and when all those that have been bamboozled finds out what they thought was trustworthy reviews is pure garbage... then there is the uproar you see here...

and little fanbois like yourself is totally unhappy because someone told the truth about your lord saviour Linus

GN has gone after multiple companies with exploding powersupplies, self-igniting cases, burning graphicscards, bad warrenties and scamming winners from their price etc. etc. and LMG is just another large company... that did a poor job on their "customers" the viewers feeding them incorrect information...

information was served, with a dose of proof... and all the fanbois cries foul... and goes after the messenger instead of listening to the facts and demand that the issues are corrected...

end of story...

But the thing missing from Steves video is that Linus was allready trying to resolve this on the 10th.. 

[Emirbz]

My only concern about this thread is the prototype auction; that was wrong, very wrong, they shouldn't offered a payment, they have to return the prototype. 

 

About the data errors, let's face it, Ltt is just entertainment, not very data accurate

[Lagonas]

4 minutes ago, Emir23 said:

My only concern about this thread is the prototype auction; that was wrong, very wrong, they shouldn't offered a payment, they have to return the prototype. 

 

About the data errors, let's face it, Ltt is just entertainment, not very data accurate

I keep seeing this exact argument. They invested a lot of million dollars in a lab to do accurate data testing. How can you say they are just entertainment? People follow these channels, from which LTT has over 15 million subs, to get good information to make good decisions on their next purchase. You may find it pure entertainment and don't take it serious, but a lot of people do.

[Biomancer81]

33 minutes ago, Fufia said:

translation GN is bad so everything he said in the video is invalid

if you really watch GN you should know why these videos haven't been made yet. because he already said it

and what a great irony. the reason is because he wants to collect lots of data and make sure everything is working as it should and not provide false results

No, he didnt say that it was invalid criticism, but the way that Steve did handle it, and the things he has done, very much speak to the fact it had nothing to do with wanting truth, and more to do with the fact he benefits from targeting LTT. He claims to be ethical, and acts in unethical and frankly hypocritical ways. If you cant see that you are being deliberately  obtuse.

 

Linus has been plainly open about the growing pains of labs, and the incorrect data points.

[GotWeez]

2 minutes ago, Emirbz said:

My only concern about this thread is the prototype auction; that was wrong, very wrong, they shouldn't offered a payment, they have to return the prototype. 

 

About the data errors, let's face it, Ltt is just entertainment, not very data accurate

That's a serious problem when you're trying to become the face of data accuracy and investing in a $10m testing facility.

[Lurker_Letum]

32 minutes ago, Fufia said:

 

if you really watch GN you should know why these videos haven't been made yet.

No idea why I would lie about watching GN.

Been subscribed to the since late 2020 and watched them for longer. But it's been what. A year and a half now? Coming up on 2 years. And nothing. At least with LTT labs they have the excuse that they had to buy an entirely new building and outfit it. If I was given a single new piece of testing equipment at work and after a year I couldn't produce any results for my boss I would of been fired. 

[Sarra]

1 minute ago, Emir23 said:

My only concern about this thread is the prototype auction; that was wrong, very wrong, they shouldn't offered a payment, they have to return the prototype. 

 

About the data errors, let's face it, Ltt is just entertainment, not very data accurate

I disagree. The prototype sale was, in fact, wrong, I do agree with that.

 

Data errors, well... LTT, and Linus himself, claim that they do their best for the highest accuracy on benchmarking. If they treated their content as entertainment, then why even post up data? Why collect it to begin with?

 

If they're going to put data out, it needs to be correct. The content is intended to be "worthwhile after the video is posted, for a long time, to help future purchases".

 

They really need to do better, and right now, I want to hear how they are going to accomplish this.

[Glorthiar]

16 minutes ago, Godiwa said:

he still doesn't have to call them... ppl need to stop thinking he does... it's been discussed all day... he did not need to CALL Linus first... so just stop that BS insinuation that he did... it's gotten real old already...

You "We made this decision based on the fact its doesn't support our position so please stop saying it because it makes us look bad"

https://www.writersdigest.com/write-better-nonfiction/5-rules-of-ethical-journalism
https://journalism.nyu.edu/about-us/resources/ethics-handbook-for-students/nyu-journalism-handbook-for-students/
https://ethics.journalists.org/topics/balance-and-fairness/

5 minutes and 3 different sources saying that If it is possible to reach out to give both sides a chance to comment you probably should.
By just stomping your feet and screaming "BUT HE DOESN'T NEED TOO' You just make yourselves look like babies.

GN made no effort to reach out for comment and it lead to him sharing incomplete stories that make LMG look worse than they were.

[Alexeygridnev1993]

1 minute ago, GotWeez said:

That's a serious problem when you're trying to become the face of data accuracy and investing in a $10m testing facility.

Also, it's not like LTT has never been good at testing. They have been pretty reliable for years - until the last 1-2 years when they just started to release 20 videos a week and disregarded the quality completely.

[Erik_]

5 minutes ago, andreimj said:

If you need another youtuber to tell you what to think....i can only say it's a good thing that you recently discovered how much you hate LTT

Have you never gotten input on a subject that influenced your opinion on that matter?

As I get more information it affects my opinion on subjects.

Since you did not consider that possibility I can only assume that you do not, and so your opinion in any subject is not interesting.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Godiwa said:

because if you haven't noticed it they always point out when companies does shitty things for the consumer... which LMG was/is doing... shitty/fake/wrong results and conclusions that can mislead people both into buying something that isn't as good as claimed (300% performance gain on the GPU test) or claim a mouse is utterly useless.... when it is the tester himself that is utterly useless... both cases hurt the consumer

viewers(consumers) have complained about it for atleast 2 years now... and Linus has brushed it off everytime...

now he got a wakeup call he couldn't just ignore because another sizeable channel called out the shenanigans... and when all those that have been bamboozled finds out what they thought was trustworthy reviews is pure garbage... then there is the uproar you see here...

and little fanbois like yourself is totally unhappy because someone told the truth about your lord saviour Linus

GN has gone after multiple companies with exploding powersupplies, self-igniting cases, burning graphicscards, bad warrenties and scamming winners from their price etc. etc. and LMG is just another large company... that did a poor job on their "customers" the viewers feeding them incorrect information...

information was served, with a dose of proof... and all the fanbois cries foul... and goes after the messenger instead of listening to the facts and demand that the issues are corrected...

end of story...

I have just a couple of questions. Just think about them GN focused on all the stuff LTT got wrong. What about all the things LTT got right? I mean seriously everyone makes mistakes and yes those were a few really bad mistakes. But what about the other videos with good information? One thing about Journalism is to introduce balance. Where in both of GN's videos did he point to the positive work LTT was doing? I am not talking about a "run down". I mean actual journalistic commentary.

 

I know of this old saying "You are only as good as your last job". Sure LTT messed up. But did GN do a good job? Did GN give a fair and honest account? If GN did then where is the stuff LTT did right? Based on the lack of the "good" that LTT did. Based on that I can conclude GN's intention. It is what it is. I am sorry but it is very easy to put someone in a bad light with one-sided commentary.

 

GN if you are reading this and you call yourself an investigative Journalist. Where is the balance? Why wasn't LTT allowed to comment? Are you going to benefit from your new-found cloud in the long run? Be honest.

[andreimj]

The last 3 hours of reading your takes were realy insightful and helpful for the comunity. It's a shame that many of us that acted against the hating mob of lynches got lost in the shitstorm. What happened was not ok. It wasn't even about Linus. Can you imagine that I've read comments on this forum and on reddit that threatened Linus's kids?! Yesterday I've lost all hope for the community and felt like I was living a lie in my own bubble. I am greatful for LMG's response and how calmness and reason led them to the right decision. I am also greatful for the people that kept their calm and didn't choose the herd mentality over common sense and reason. Today we have a broader picture and it's only getting better from here.

 

It's been a wild ride these 48 hours, but I'm really exciting for what's to come.

 

I'm going to sleep now. Take care and remember to be kind to yourselves and others