Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[TechDeckCAD]

10 minutes ago, Biomancer81 said:

Steve, someone directly competing with LMG issuing a "report" about their competitor. You know, conflict of interest.

Why don't you address why you don't think 2 entities with history together and gotten together to talk about said report is conflict of interest then?

 

If you can't answer this, you are clearly disingenuous.

[bandainamcofan]

1 minute ago, TechDeckCAD said:

Journalists are literally not obligated to ask questions to the other side, especially when said comments already existed in the public domain, but you ignore this and keep harping on the "you need to have a record from the other side no matter way." That's why I asked you what new content do you think Stephen would've gotten if he went to LTT/LMG to ask.

The other thing that gets ignored is that LMG has the right to do exactly what they did: reply with their own video. 

[TheOtherJohn]

10 minutes ago, Biomancer81 said:

Steve, someone directly competing with LMG issuing a "report" about their competitor. You know, conflict of interest.

I dont see GN and LMG as competitors at all. They make VERY different types of content.

[kewtz]

I don’t agree with comments about GN / LTT channels being competitive. 

The only element they could be considered as competitors is the huge hardware releases, where near ALL tech reviewers are making the “mega videos”. 

 

Otherwise, I do not see a straight 1:1 comparison in content between GN and LTT. 

[drmlnr1]

Long time watcher, first time poster.  I can tell that everyone at LMG is sincere about making a big change for the better.  I support everyone at LMG from Terren to everyone working customer service for ltt store and even the labs staff.  I'm so glad Linus brought someone in he can trust and he's worked with in the past.  No matter what happens (even after the new stuff), I will be watching and still subscribed.  I've been watching since the iJustine collaboration.  This channel (and by extension this community) have become part of me.  @LinusTech you took a fire that went dormant many years ago in me about computer science and rekindled it.  much love and admiration.  

[Lurker_Letum]

1 minute ago, TheOtherJohn said:

I dont see GN and LMG as competitors at all. They make VERY different types of content.

You might not see them as competitors but they are now with the labs. Used to be LTT was haha funny casual content and GN was serious numbers content. But now LTT is trying to move to cover both and GN is pivoting to both serious hardware content and journalism content.

 

I do miss when GN was focused on just hardware and Steve was more down to earth and didn't see himself as the ethics god of the pc world.

I also miss when LTT was more about janky funny videos with the occasional hardware review when a new cpu/gpu was coming out.

 

Things change and I don't like it 

[alexmack]

19 minutes ago, MrStebe said:

...

TLDR (Sorry for the 10 part mini-series)

Linus did bad, but that does not make him a bad person

Don't judge the Madison situation until its properly investigated (Hopefully by a third party)

Gamers Nexus did this for the views and would get more respect if they owned that 

It was a good post, though I wanted to address the Steve section.

 

Linus is not a bad person, and neither is Steve. His channel would benefit from controversy, yes - but one could tell, just by his facial expression and the tone of his voice, that Steve was personally offended/galvanized into making the critical piece after the combo of the labs employee boast and Linus' WAN show implication.

 

Steve is obsessive about the data integrity bona-fides, and one could tell that those asides really got under his skin.

[TechDeckCAD]

1 minute ago, Lurker_Letum said:

GN is pivoting to both serious hardware content and journalism content.

????

 

Gamers Nexus has always been about tinkering with PC builds, enthusiast-grade component reviews  and pieces on companies like Newegg, Nvidia, ASUS, etc. for ages now. This investigative content he's been doing isn't new at all.

[TheOtherJohn]

4 minutes ago, Lurker_Letum said:

I do miss when GN was focused on just hardware and Steve was more down to earth and didn't see himself as the ethics god of the pc world.

I also miss when LTT was more about janky funny videos with the occasional hardware review when a new cpu/gpu was coming out.

 

Things change and I don't like it 

We are on the exact same page.

Call me when the time machine is ready, Im coming too.

[Lurker_Letum]

1 minute ago, TechDeckCAD said:

????

 

Gamers Nexus has always been about tinkering with PC builds, enthusiast-grade component reviews  and pieces on companies like Newegg, Nvidia, ASUS, etc. for ages now. This investigative content he's been doing isn't new at all.

May have worded things badly. The pivot I'm talking from them is purely the journalism. Don't recall much of that at all back when I started watching them around 2015. And all the examples you posted are recent.

[kewtz]

4 minutes ago, Lurker_Letum said:

You might not see them as competitors but they are now with the labs.

There’s a potential to overlap with specific hardware. LTT has a ways to go before I’d consider them as a resource I use to buy a new PC, as an example. GN content caters towards certain hardware with extremely detailed stats - by way of a detailed testing infrastructure. 

 

To me (and everyone is different as to why they watch LTT), I find LTT to be like the grocery store, focused with a little bit of everything. 

GN on the other hand is the butcher - yes it’s still food, BUT, the expertise is that much more in a very specific space. 

[Lurker_Letum]

7 minutes ago, kewtz said:

There’s a potential to overlap with specific hardware. LTT has a ways to go before I’d consider them as a resource I use to buy a new PC, as an example. GN content caters towards certain hardware with extremely detailed stats - by way of a detailed testing infrastructure. 

 

To me (and everyone is different as to why they watch LTT), I find LTT to be like the grocery store, focused with a little bit of everything. 

GN on the other hand is the butcher - yes it’s still food, BUT, the expertise is that much more in a very specific space. 

Oh I agree with most of what your saying 100%

 

But to use your analogy GN is like a butcher. But LTT is like a grocery shop with a part time butcher. GN focuses on the nitty gritty as a focus. LTT focuses on getting a bunch of stuff out with the occasional nitty gritty. But either way when I worked a grocery store part of the non compete clause in my hiring papers included butchers even if the overlap was small.

 

Also as an aside. The fact that a grocery store has a non-compete clause still boggles my mind. Like I kind of understand it for management but for the stock boys? Kinde weird.

 

All this to say that well GN is better at the details it doesn't mean that LTT isn't a competitor even if LTT has a long road ahead of it if it wants to compare to the more specialized groups. Will be interesting to see if LTT ever tries to break into commercial stuff like what level1tech does. I know Linus has said absolutely not in the past but I remember a more recent video were he gave a much more neutral response.

[kewtz]

3 minutes ago, Lurker_Letum said:

 

All this to say that well GN is better at the details it doesn't mean that LTT isn't a competitor even if LTT has a long road ahead of it if it wants to compare to the more specialized groups.

Gotcha, yeah I’m with you now. 

Here’s to hoping that both content creators will improve as a result of competition. 

[TazX14]

4 minutes ago, Lurker_Letum said:

Oh I agree with most of what your saying 100%

 

But to use your analogy GN is like a butcher. But LTT is like a grocery shop with a part time butcher. GN focuses on the nitty gritty as a focus. LTT focuses on getting a bunch of stuff out with the occasional nitty gritty. But either way when I worked a grocery store part of the non compete clause in my hiring papers included butchers even if the overlap was small.

 

Also as an aside. The fact that a grocery store has a non-compete clause still boggles my mind. Like I kind of understand it for management but for the stock boys? Kinde weird.

 

All this to say that well GN is better at the details it doesn't mean that LTT isn't a competitor even if LTT has a long road ahead of it if it wants to compare to the more specialized groups. Will be interesting to see if LTT ever tries to break into commercial stuff like what level1tech does. I know Linus has said absolutely not in the past but I remember a more recent video were he gave a much more neutral response.

Hmmmmm... I wouldn't necessarily say LTT or LMG is the grocery shop, but rather a fine dining experience whereas NG is very much the tried and true butcher. LMG has shown their true colors that they will try to sell you the best dish on display... however they'll also try to push the special when need be as said by the leads of the restaurant... It becomes hard to trust what the freshest of the day is, or what the best dish really will be despite coming mutliple times...

 

GN is the p[rominent butcher... they are blunt, they are forward, they will tell you which cut of the calf you're getting and all about the animal it came from. they don't care about their opinions or others', they don't care that you or they prefer one or the other... they come to you, state the facts, say how it is and the price regardless of whether you like it or not, and leave you to come up with your own decisions...

 

The issue comes, when I go to the wonderful restaurant and get food poisoning, the restaurant blames everyone else but themself saying everything they did was right... whereas the butcher merely states you bought a 1 month dry aged beef from someone else and already explained you need to be careful to remove those parts prior to cooking... Also, they didn't steal your steak whereas the supplier for the restaurant is asking what happened to the shipper product that LMG is sellng, and they're saying... we dunno but thanks for sending what they did...

[Biomancer81]

9 hours ago, EchoBravo498 said:

Perhaps need more context around this particular statement from Steve. I actually am glad he didn't reach out. In this case he has personal relationships with folks at LMG that would undoubtedly affect his feelings on the situation. Also almost all of the stuff he commented on was public domain.

 

EDIT: also what info would Steve get that would have been helpful/useful for his story?

That is the exact reason he had no business making the video in the first place. If he can be influenced emotionally, he cant be objective about it.

 

Also, almost all is not the same as all.

[Aiken Drum]

11 hours ago, Shlouski said:

Okay I'm calling you out. This is a flat-out lie.

 

I just re-watched the video to be sure.

 

Steve DOES say he's not monetizing the video.

 

Steve ALSO says there is no sponsor for the video.

 

Steve DOES NOT say to "grab some merch". He doesn't mention merch or the merch store.

 

There is also no mention of merch, nor link to the merch store, in the description.

 

[kewtz]

2 minutes ago, Biomancer81 said:

That is the exact reason he had no business making the video in the first place. If he can be influenced emotionally, he cant be objective about it.

That’s an extreme stance. 

GN can make a video for anything he desires, and must be willing to accept any side effects, positive or negative. 

 

Many of us are quick to call out “emotions”, and while it’s subjective, our emotions aren’t 100% controllable, and trying to dismiss them is inhuman. We have emotions, it’s how we live. 

 

That said, it’s obvious that GN is passionate about objective reporting in the tech space and we can say he’s consistent. He has uploaded many videos about the inefficiencies of tech companies claiming to do good but they are misleading the customer. 

 

I like one of the comments in Steve’s video, consider this a peer review. When one doctor reviews a cancer study of another, it’s not “competition” or trying to harm a base, it’s ensuring bias of success isn’t clouding the reality. 

[bandainamcofan]

7 minutes ago, Biomancer81 said:

That is the exact reason he had no business making the video in the first place.

Wrong. That's a valid reason he shouldn't contact LMG ahead of the story. He committed no ethical impropriety and no matter how many times you say otherwise it won't change that.

[FRESHYLEMON]

1 hour ago, Lurker_Letum said:

 

Damn. 11 hour old comment within the top 10 comments on the video and with 6k likes. They sure are are doing an amazing job at censoring comments lol.

Along with the shit ton of comments in there subreddit and on here. 

 

Edit: Also after clicking on the link to the reddit post you linked. You can see most people on that post commenting about how it's the shitty youtube algorithm fucking with comments. Bang up job on making your point my guy.

Sorry m8, you typed all that up just to miss my edit 2 minutes after I posted my comment. I did see this though about 10 minutes after that which might interest you. Reddit comments vs reddit comments. What else you got?

 

 

[Lurker_Letum]

2 minutes ago, FRESHYLEMON said:

Sorry m8, you typed all that up just to miss my edit 2 minutes after I posted my comment. I did see this though about 10 minutes after that which might interest you. Reddit comments vs reddit comments. What else you got?

 

 

Only saw new comments getting removed. If they are actually removing comments and it's not just youtube causing shit yet again then they can go fuck themselves. I was happy when Linus walked back on the shadowbanning idea and it will be a right piss off if they starts removing comments now without a good reason. Which I can't think of any good reasons.

[JustSomeDudeOnAForum]

So what should Steve do? Just let the inaccuracies slide cause he has a personal connection to Linus? Fuck that.

 

It's more likely than not that Steve tried to personally reach out to Linus about the inaccuracies way before the video was conceived. And Linus, being Linus, probably didn't listen to the advice. 

 

GN and LTT aren't really competitors. GN is more targeted towards data-junkie PC enthusiasts whilst LTT is more of a general tech review channel with entertainment laced in. 

 

Even if the video was made in bad-faith: who cares? The end result is ultimately a good thing. A channel with as much of a reach as LTT shouldn't be misinforming consumers. 

 

As for the Madison thing, it's very unfortunate. I do hope that the 3rd party investigation is impartial, and it's handled well. No one should endure that bullshit on the job.  

[Lurker_Letum]

2 minutes ago, JustSomeDudeOnAForum said:

So what should Steve do? Just let the inaccuracies slide cause he has a personal connection to Linus? Fuck that.

 

It's more likely than not that Steve tried to personally reach out to Linus about the inaccuracies way before the video was conceived. And Linus, being Linus, probably didn't listen to the advice. 

 

GN and LTT aren't really competitors. GN is more targeted towards data-junkie PC enthusiasts whilst LTT is more of a general tech review channel with entertainment laced in. 

 

Even if the video was made in bad-faith: who cares? The end result is ultimately a good thing. A channel with as much of a reach as LTT shouldn't be misinforming consumers. 

 

As for the Madison thing, it's very unfortunate. I do hope that the 3rd party investigation is impartial, and it's handled well. No one should endure that bullshit on the job.  

Don't know why people keep asking this even though the answer has been stated again and again. The answer is simple. Steve should of reached out for comment instead of treating LTT different. His harsher treatment of LTT compared to previous topics like Asus, Newegg, and Artesian builds shows a clear bias. Which is not what he should want when it's clear he has much to gain from this.

[Aiken Drum]

11 hours ago, EchoBravo498 said:

Tone of the response is very subjective. Linus took it on the chin from many of his coworkers. Including his wife. Sure it was emotional, but a truly humbling experience will do that. Imagine having your entire leadership (not to mention company you built) looking at you as the cause for a potentially company wide hit on the bottom line - that's a big deal. I'd be emotional and I bet you would be too. Let's judge on the results over time for now.

Hey, having emotions about the situation is fine and understandable.

 

What isn't fine or understandable is allowing them to taint the apology you're giving.

 

At the end of the day, there is apparently no one who can tell Linus, "NO!" and have it stick. If Luke had a chance to see Linus' segment before that video went live, I think he would have recognized the problem. I don't know if he was able to see it, I don't know if he had the chance to tell Linus to rethink, and even if he did, I think Linus would have resisted the advice and pushed the video out the door.

 

I've seen this happen over and over on the WAN show. Luke is Linus' conscience and guardian angel, he is ALWAYS paying attention to Linus being an idiot. You only have to watch his face during any sketchy subject that Linus is commenting on, and he frequently speaks up, and Linus usually just steamrolls over his feedback. Linus seems to have very little idea what a good friend and counsel he has in Luke, nor respect for the care he shows for both Linus and the company.

[bandainamcofan]

2 minutes ago, Lurker_Letum said:

Steve should of reached out for comment instead of treating LTT different

And it's been shown repeatedly that there is simply no obligation in terms of journalism ethics to contact the subject of a story. If he had called up Linus as a friend and told him he was about to run this piece, that in and of itself would have been an unethical practice by showing preferential treatment.

[Mbmm]

1 hour ago, TechDeckCAD said:

Journalists are literally not obligated to ask questions to the other side, especially when said comments already existed in the public domain, but you ignore this and keep harping on the "you need to have a record from the other side no matter what." That's why I asked you what new content do you think Stephen would've gotten if he went to LTT/LMG to ask.

 

Yeah, I don't understand why people thinking "that's what journalists are obligated to do". If a food journalist goes in to try a place and the service is bad, the journalist doesn't need to ask for comment about their side of the bad service. It's literally not even mental gymnastics to see how this relates. However people always say "apples and oranges" without considering they both are freaking fruit.

 

In an ideal situation where details are obscure, sure, get both sides of a story. This what pretty cut and dry on "what happened", what wasn't 100% sure is the "how" but when you have leadership acting like nothing bad happened because he doesn't keep up with managing his company that's how this happens.

 

Thanks for actually understanding this.