Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[Amaninacity]

1 minute ago, wanderingfool2 said:

The general sentiment is that there isn't a need to get Linus' response or clarification when it's believed to be a systemic issue.  

From a journalistic standpoint, this sentiment is wrong. Publishing a defamatory piece (whether the defamation is legitimate or not) requires a request for comment from the target of the piece. It’s important for maintaining your journalistic neutrality as well as making sure you don’t get sued. It’s also important for making sure that your reporting is accurate and fair.

 

Requesting comment is important in journalism. If the comment is shitty, that strengthens your piece. If it recasts your criticisms, acknowledging it also strengthens your piece. This isn’t a small point even if Steve’s piece is 100% factually correct. And I find it compelling and find Linus’s response lacking.

[VisibleXela]

Just now, Isaiah D. said:

Just to chuck my 2 cents into the fire:
If the majority of employees are asking for more time to refine these issues and the response on the previous 2 wan shows are "we would need to hire fact checkers and that would cost a lot of money" maybe you really just need to give your videos more time. Why hire fact checkers when you can tell your current employees to go back and verify their own script for a day.

"Everyone, read the script from the person on your left, see if you can find anything wrong with it"

[daydreamfaze]

3 minutes ago, RoseLuck462 said:

If LMG truly wasn’t supposed to sell the cooler than they need to rectify that ASAP.

 

Otherwise I thought it was but not picky to show just a handful of videos with errors.

 

1 minute ago, Isaiah D. said:

Just to chuck my 2 cents into the fire:
If the majority of employees are asking for more time to refine these issues and the response on the previous 2 wan shows are "we would need to hire fact checkers and that would cost a lot of money" maybe you really just need to give your videos more time. Why hire fact checkers when you can tell your current employees to go back and verify their own script for a day. If technical jargon is wrong, surely something as technical as it is is more forgivable than saying "2 HDMI and 3 Display port" while showing the IO to the camera. It's only human after all to make mistakes as they are currently saying. Then maybe tell the hosts to read said scripts a bit closer. Didn't want to bring up the mouse, but just cropping out parts where the skates don't work while keeping the review up is stupid. That was the whole reason not to get the mouse in that review-sorry-unboxing where they recommend things.

 

I'm still mad about that water block though. Imagine giving a Youtuber an LTT backpack prototype and they just auction/sell it off saying "Don't worry, we'll pay back the development costs. I just didn't need a backpack." If Linus doesn't think it's worth $100-$500 of an employee's time to retest said water block then surely he would be pissed at the amount of time wasted to have made a prototype then not have it anymore. You would have to make another prototype clone before they are able to make improvements on it unless you already had everything you needed and nothing to compare it to. I don't think there's any excuse for that one.

 

Linus: Companies are not your friends, they are just out for your money. Also Linus: I spend 30 million on a lab and cant afford 500$ to retest something.

[iAxX]

6 minutes ago, TheProfosist said:

I could tell you a D15 isnt enough for a modern top end CPU. There's a reason the D15v2/D16 is going to be a thing. Also LTT themselves has shown dual 360 rads as not being enough to fully cool a 13900K at full tilt.

 

My brother in christ, LTT Labs tested the 13900k with an NH-D15 and said it can take anything you throw at it. 

This is that conflict of interest. Please watch the original GN video. 

[SimonShipperd]

Just now, Nucleosynthesis said:

Are you serious right now?

 

I can't believe people are still defending Linus on this topic and on top of that attack GN and now even victim blaming Billet Labs.

 

This is not healthy. If you like Linus, you should not condone his insane respones or attack GN/Billet Labs. Instead, help him find his old self and motivate him to do the right thing!

I am in no way defending Linus, LTT, or attacking GN. And I've explained in previous posts that being a victim does not automatically absolve you from any and all responsability. Sure Linus trashed the product, but even without new testing his original point stands by itself. A waterblock that costs 800€ for a last-gen card, and by the time it would be released probably 2 gen old card, is not something anyone should buy.

I think by know he knows all to well what is happening and what needs to happen. Perhaps people should need to give him the time to sort things out. This place is pretty neutral and factual (except for the troll accounts that registered today). But he personally and his lifes work is being bombarded and attacked for the 2nd time in 2 months. I understand his reaction towards GN since there is at least a partial truth in it. GN went out of his way to setup a meeting with Newegg, but now he doesn't even bother to pick up the phone to get at least the other part of the story? Anyway, my point is not to attack GN or Billet in any way.

[lyenistek]

Quote

"Trust me bro"

-Linus Sebastian

This is when the "Trust me bro" guarantee gets put to the test.

[Blademaster91]

46 minutes ago, Uttamattamakin said:

Agreed... but how do you fire Linus?  How do you punish Linus?  

Push him out of doing LTT videos, give him a small project within LMG, which he spins off into another company that LMG latter buys.  

Can anyone except Linus fire Linus? He isn't the CEO but he's still on the board and seems to want to be in charge of everything else, it feels to me like he stepped away from being the CEO so he can make hot takes like this without having to actually take responsibility for the consequences.

43 minutes ago, IndustrialBananaBread said:

Just watching the new HW news... wow.

They didn't even offer compensation for Billet until AFTER Steve had to publically call LMG out?
What a sham this company has become. Disgusting behavior that would leave a startup with no compensation even after selling their one of a kind prototype, and then only reach out once you get called out publicly.

Shame on Linus and LMG in general.

Indeed that is the worst part about the whole thing, LMG tried to ignore Billet on compensation, then went into panic mode when GN went public to call them out, It makes even more sense why GN didn't contact LMG first because of that.  Its sad that LMG and Linus thought they could bash on a company then just sell off their valuable prototype and not want to talk to them or even apologize for selling it.

[Cosmic Emotion]

Just now, ScoggsUK said:

I asked you a pretty simple question, please post a qoute from Linus where he lied. He has like one or two posts on this thread one of which is pinned. 

 

Please can you qoute where he lied?

In his reply. He made it look like the situation with Billet was already resolved and then he replied again saying he didn't care how Billet arrived at the reimburshment amount of money. This is pretty clear and that's why everyone had been talking about it like that's what was said by him.

 

If you want to play mind games, prove to me God is fake as well.

 

This is not in your best interests. Linus has to be held accountable, otherwise you're gonna have lesser content. And I really don't care about you in particular, but I do care about me.

[atxcyclist]

9 minutes ago, The_Q42 said:

Sorry, but it sounds like you're making an awfully convenient excuse there.  LMG is massive in this space, but this space is still fairly niche, and MOST people consume LMG content via YouTube.  There is a ton of crossover between LMG viewers and GN viewers, and GN raised some really good points.  People like me who HAVE posted here in the past (but only rarely) simply signed on to voice our concerns, which is valid and part of the reason this forum exists.

 

I think you think people have more time to do crap like this than they actually have.

 

There's also an interesting thing with this audience . . . I'd bet a lot of people are like me: extremely tech savvy, and not really in need of tech help.  I keep up with tech news, and have a group of nerds that I regularly talk about it with in my own social circles.  In other words, I don't feel the NEED to post here often, and I don't have the spare time to be an effective tech resource on this forum AND to my entire family AND in my professional life.

 

In short: I'm a long-time fan that doesn't post often here. I DO care about LMG and want it to succeed.  I'm disappointed in the response so far, and think it's fair to voice that.  Quit trying to shut people like me down just because we don't post a lot or are new.

 

Re-read what I wrote, you are not the type of person I'm calling into question. You've been here for years and have previously engaged in this community, that's not 'a day old account with no posts' situation like I'm talking about. Lots of people here rarely post but have been here a long time, but that shows at least a level of involvement in the community that proves they have some prior knowledge of it.

 

The people that signed-up at 10pm yesterday and have dozens of posts just shitting on this or that, it's very hard to point at their comments as more than just brigading and drama-seeking.

 

[kalleth]

1 minute ago, Amaninacity said:

From a journalistic standpoint, this sentiment is wrong. Publishing a defamatory piece (whether the defamation is legitimate or not) requires a request for comment from the target of the piece. It’s important for maintaining your journalistic neutrality as well as making sure you don’t get sued. It’s also important for making sure that your reporting is accurate and fair.

This is not true.

[wanderingfool2]

2 minutes ago, Leksi T said:

Personally, I am willing to give Linus a bit of slack on what he posted yesterday.  Do I think it was horribly unprofessional, yes. Did he lie? Ugh... I'd have to go into whether he knew what he was saying was truth or not... I just don't know.  But CE has the right to believe he was lied to.

The issue is Linus overly was calling out GN for not contacting him to get the facts.  The fact is Linus acted like some of the stuff he did after the video was somehow done prior to the video.  That makes it a major lie, not just unprofessional but one where he's spin doctoring the narrative to try making himself look in the right.

[harls]

5 minutes ago, Shatterhand said:

 

He wrote it, right here in the forum.

Said he already agreed as a critique towards GN, while he contacted Billet only after the initial GN video went up.

So he lied.

 

 

Read what he wrote.  He did not say He had agreed to a price with Billet.  He did not say LMG and Billet agreed.  He said we agreed.  Quite possibly meaning that LMG has agreed that they will pay what they need to to make it right.  Remember this all happened over the course of a couple business days.  

[dege13]

3 minutes ago, PandaSasquatch said:

...

The block wasn't theirs to sell, and clearly it was auctioned by accident (and not for profit).

...

Exactly. I think this goes to show the poor communication at LMG. Nobody has time to talk about these things and emails appear to get lost, even when there were like 3+ emails where they said they would ship the prototype back. There were so many LMG employees saying they want time to settle down, take a break, learn from past mistakes. I noticed this myself before GN highlighted it in their video.

[SimonShipperd]

5 minutes ago, jooroth18 said:

Well you would want to put your best foot foward so the results can be as high as they are. Sending linus a worse prototype would be bad optics, as the rewiew would be bad, and even though they might say in the video that billet has a better prototyoe with x improvement, who would believe that? Most people would see it as BS like every single kickstarter.

I agree, and I understand Billet for sending the product. But you would think that any company, even a startup, would have at least a 2nd one they keep on site at all times. For al they know, the plane transporting it from the UK to Canada could crash in the Atlantic Ocean. 

[OuterMarker]

The Billet Labs situation has distracted many from the most important part of Steve's criticism... the quality of LTT videos. 

 

I am way more concerned about the poor quality of the testing, the many mistakes that are allowed in videos, and the overall rushed and unprepared nature of some of the shoots (the Billet Labs video itself).

 

Steve hit the nail on the head when he said the root cause is the self-imposed deadlines and upload schedule. Linus has to decide what the purpose of each video is. Is it a review? Is it showing off an ambitious tech project? Or is it mindless tech entertainment? Right now, I don't think they are doing any of those videos well.

 

If the goal is to be a review video, accuracy needs to be the number one priority. If that means you delay a video or pull a video down, so be it. An asterisk is not good enough. Sometimes the corrections are on the screen so briefly that I have to go back and pause the video. Who knows how many I missed when I wasn't looking at the screen.  And how can I expect to trust your conclusion if so many facts are corrected days or weeks after you recorded the video?

 

If it's an ambitious tech project (like showing off an expensive water block that looks cool). Put the product in its best light. Most of us are never going to play with those halo projects. You are our chance to see what they can actually do. And I really don't want to hear, "We aren't going to treat this product with respect because we don't think you should buy it." If that was the case, we would all be gaming on a 5-year-old CPU and last gen card. Sometimes we like to splurge on our hobby rather than only buy stuff with the best performance-to-dollar ratio. Wouldn't that suck if you couldn't find a serious review of a Porsche Taycan because the only youtube review of it said, "A Honda Civic will get you to work just as fast and is cheaper, so rather than taking this Taycan to a track, we are going to see how many bags of groceries it can carry."

 

But my biggest issue is Linus's refusal to do anything that will hurt his channel's performance when he knows there is a mistake. I get it, youtube crushes your video if you delete it and re-upload a similar one a few hours later, but that's the price you pay for your current level of quality control and workflow. If you don't want to delete videos, give your writers and production crew more time. You would call out a tech company that knowingly shipped a defective product, so why shouldn't your viewers treat you the same? It is completely unacceptable to build a media company that can't afford to remove a video or miss an upload if the video is full of errors

[Nucleosynthesis]

Just now, VisibleXela said:

It's not about "faking" anything, it's that people on the internet are vultures and will descend on anything Linus says and make it an even bigger issue. It's already happened, people (myself included) are tearing Linus's response to bits.

 

YouTuber apologies are damn near impossible to get right, and in recent memory the only times I can remember them working is when the person given the apology doesn't seem like the person in the wrong to begin with.

Agreed, but Linus' response on this particular topic was childish, and he was twisting the narrative. 

 

I think, for once, it is actually deserving of a barrage of criticism. 

[PandaSquawk]

6 minutes ago, zeroality said:

Yeah he definitely did when he said Steve should’ve reached out for a comment because he had reached out to billet and agreed to compensate them.. which does prove Linus is a time traveler since he reached out to billet 2 hours after the video and so if Steve had reached out to him he’d have gone back in time to inform Steve it was being resolved.

It all makes sense 

Who cares about all that? LMG is staffed by humans who do not work 24/7/365, and I don't want them to. LMG staff had at most 1 business day to respond to the last email sent. For all we know the process of reimbursing Billet Labs had already been set in motion.
 

But by all means, keep raging about this, you're clearly making the world a better place. /s

[Lagonas]

 

20 minutes ago, harls said:

He never said he had an agreement with Billet labs.  

 

5 minutes ago, harls said:

Again he did not say it was already resolved. 

 

Those are 2 different things, chief.

[Drazil100]

3 minutes ago, Nucleosynthesis said:

Are you serious right now?

 

I can't believe people are still defending Linus on this topic and on top of that attack GN and now even victim blaming Billet Labs.

 

This is not healthy. If you like Linus, you should not condone his insane respones or attack GN/Billet Labs. Instead, help him find his old self and motivate him to do the right thing!

I personally think both sides need to chill a bit. People are defending him so hard cause he is getting attacked so hard. He deserves criticism and to be shamed, especially for his terrible response to this. But he doesn't deserve to go out of business or all the people who always hated him coming in and being like "You see! This is why I never trusted that clown".

He literally JUST hired a new CEO who hasn't even been there a quarter. They were already in the process of fixing their processes BEFORE Steve made his video and Linus has shared many of the same concerns Steve has on wan show in the past (though more sugar coated). It's gonna take time for the business to adjust to all the recent changes and I think some of the haters need to take a step back and realize they are going through a transition.

That being said, come on guys. Linus is at fault. It doesn't matter if Steve covered this in a perfectly journalistic way or if he is just drama baiting or whatever. The facts in his videos are accurate and Linus himself has admitted fault. Just cause they are going through a transition doesn't mean they aren't responsible for their mistakes. Let LMG take it's lumps, there will be time to defend him later.

[jooroth18]

5 minutes ago, ColonelSupremePizza said:

No, but he should fire himself after fanning the flames and causing more damage to the brand and image of LMG. Just saying, he is still very much running the company and the CEO position is 1000000000000000000% honorary.

I dont think firing himself is nessessary. The real problem is linus has been going at full speed for far too long, and desperately needs a break. In prior wan shows, linus has talked about how Yvonne has asked him to slow down company wise and spend more time with family, and frankly she is right 100%. Linus is far to wrapped up in LMG, both physically and emotionally, and needs to understand this isnt the small team it used to be. Every single time controversey arrises, he takes it personally first and foremost.

 

Linus needs a break, weather it be a few weeks to a few months, and let the team handle and fix this. They are talented and bright people.

[ILikeHardware]

9 minutes ago, ScoggsUK said:

That's not grabbing the qoute where he lied. Qoute a post where Linus lied please. 

 

Quoting other people's interpretation is not a qoute.

Sure, here you go:
 

22 hours ago, LinusTech said:

Billet sent us a quote. I don't know or care how they arrived at the value. If they're good, I'm good.

As for what steps we're taking, you're talking about an outlier issue that has happened once in 10+ years of operation. There won't be a new SOP to ensure we don't accidentally auction stuff. We just need to tighten up some documentation.

Billet never sent them a quote, they told him they would like their $XXXX product back. So there you go, bud.

[Bananasplit_00]

22 hours ago, LinusTech said:

we have already agreed to compensate Billet Labs for the cost of their prototype).

That "we" is carrying so SOOOOOO much weight here.

 

Must be a "we" meaning LMG management seeing as Billet didn't know or agree to any of this before this went up.

 

I am amazed at how you manage to be so technically correct yet still dig an even deeper hole with a single sentence.

[Leksi T]

Bringing up the employee interviews. There's another tough spot.  Linus has said that he will never watch that video.  In this case, it's probably good that GN included that in his video, lets Linus have a loophole to hear it for himself.  But on the other hand, GN cut some context from that, so it might be best if Linus has the opportunity to hear those quotes in context, however he has to work it.

[SimonShipperd]

2 minutes ago, kalleth said:

This is not true.

It is if you present yourself as the authority on non-biased journalism the way GN does.

[BlackSmokeDMax]

1 minute ago, harls said:

Read what he wrote.  He did not say He had agreed to a price with Billet.  He did not say LMG and Billet agreed.  He said we agreed.  Quite possibly meaning that LMG has agreed that they will pay what they need to to make it right.  Remember this all happened over the course of a couple business days.  

 

Sure, but at that time, Billet had not agreed that just getting a check was sufficient. Since then, that has come to be, now that they know the part is not in the hand of any competitors.