Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[Blademaster91]

25 minutes ago, RockerBug17 said:

Makes since if there are stake holders. LMG is privately owned.

 

I just get the feeling people would be just as rabid if Linus had done exactly as you propose. He'd still have no 'tegridty but in the alternate timeline he'd also be a sell out. There's no win here for LMG. People just wanna be mad.

No I think people would have been a lot more positive if Linus had put a genuine apology and publicly apologized to Billet, people are upset because Linus tried to dismiss the whole thing with a non-apology corporate sounding statement, and trying to say they didn't sell the water block, then only paying Billet when GN went public with the video.

[Uttamattamakin]

1 hour ago, PandaSasquatch said:

Stolen? That's a poor choice of words. Stolen implies intent, and is a brain dead take.

Misappropriated, Embezzled, etc.  The result is the same.  Suppose it was someone or some company you did not like that did the same thing.  What would you say? 

[Monolithic]

1 minute ago, finnishguy said:

But the fact that a public callout was needed for LTT to even respond to their messages tells alot.

 

Not to mention why are we just now hearing about the Billet thing? If Steve hadn't mentioned it, we would all still be in the dark.

[J82465]

Can we appreciate the irony of the LMG policy on their website

 

https://linusmediagroup.com/contact-us

 

 

Now we understand why Linus thinks an auction is different from a "Sell"

[TheSaiyan]

On 8/14/2023 at 11:30 PM, LinusTech said:

Billet sent us a quote. I don't know or care how they arrived at the value. If they're good, I'm good.

As for what steps we're taking, you're talking about an outlier issue that has happened once in 10+ years of operation. There won't be a new SOP to ensure we don't accidentally auction stuff. We just need to tighten up some documentation.

You can't lie twice on this subject and then hide like a little child who has broken a glass. 
You tried to make it look like you had already solved the conflict before the GN video to reinforce your role as victims, this is not right and you cannot now simply turn a deaf ear.
I expect more from this company and I expect more from you.  

[Monolithic]

1 minute ago, eece_ret said:

Thank you for exemplifying my point

Bro...you just joined 2020.....you aren't old school either....

[Guest]

1 minute ago, finnishguy said:

But the fact that a public callout was needed for LTT to even respond to their messages tells alot.

 

I can understand and agree about the public callout but I can also 100 percent guarantee you we do not know the full story on this. Thats all I am saying. Not even saying who is right and who is wrong. Just saying we do not know the whole story.

[Icedman181]

3 minutes ago, JuanF Madrid said:

and what the point of making more tests to be better than the them, if you actually get more test wrong more often than them, seems a pretty bad approach

 

but I guess is pretty on brand with their approach to videos Quantity over quality

Yup. It takes a lot of time to setup a repeatable test that produces accurate results. In the rushed environment of LTT, why would you even want to do this? You can rerun everything on an updated rig at fixed intervals, say quarterly or semi- annually, and focus on accuracy.

[coopa]

16 minutes ago, WTBMFWKEF said:

The situation with Billet is unfortunate however, we do not know the whole story. As far as the review, I think Linus was 100 percent right. Nothing would have changed the outcome of the video. Should they have done the extra testing on a proper graphics card, yes but Linux was right but not wasting anyone else's time for a product they they were never going to recommend to buy. People are getting really mad about that point, like LTT was trying to ruin a small company. That is just dead wrong. The company did not have a real product yet. Linus wanted them to make a good product. This was not it. No additional testing was going to fix that.

I don't understand how any reasonable person could reach this conclusion.

 

Billet Labs sent LMG both a 3090 Ti (the card that their product was intended to be used with) and their own product (a monoblock to cool it). LMG proceeds to shoot a video in which they have already been told it's intended to work on a 3090 Ti. But they can't be bothered to get a 3090 Ti, so they just pluck a 4090 and put it on that. Different GPUs have different designs and tolerances, a custom built product that was intended to fit a 3090 Ti specifically should not be tested on another GPU.

When other publications test, they see GPU temps under load closer to 55. LTT tested at 70. Which is screaming "THIS DIDN'T COOL WELL BECAUSE IT WASN'T DESIGNED TO FIT".

 

When pointed out that they tested the monoblock with a GPU it was never intended to fit, Linus dismissively says that it wasn't worth the $100-$500 to retest it, and that his viewers wouldn't have bought it anyways. In the reply here, Linus goes on to compare it to a luxury sports car (Ferrari, Lambo, etc. effectively).

 

1. Linus mentioning the dollar amount to re-shoot first shows the priority: he did not think it was worth the cash out of LMG's pockets to bother.
2. Linus tested the product wrong, and rather than acknowledge that, asserts with zero evidence that it wouldn't have made a difference in performance. How does Linus expect to be taken seriously on benchmark/lab results if he'll retest under proper conditions "only if it doesn't cost $100" and "I installed it wrong, but my opinion is no difference, trust me bro?"
3. Here, in the post Linus made on this thread acknowledging the controversy, he alludes that it wouldn't have mattered because no matter how well it cooled, he still wouldn't have recommended it, and at ~$800 USD price, his viewers wouldn't have bought it. If that's the criteria, why did he expect the review in the first place? And again, if the criteria is "well testing it accurately doesn't matter because I think you're all too poor, so f#&! it" - then why should any of the benchmark/lab tests that LMG presents be considered trustworthy?
4. Then in Linus' reply here he says it would be impossible to test under perfect conditions - nobody asked him to invest in a multmillion dollar perfect pressure and air temperature/filtered air chamber or anything absurd. They asked Linus to test the monoblock on the GPU it was intended for. This isn't a tall order, nor is it unreasonable, but Linus takes the out that absolute unknowable perfection is impossible so screw it, won't re-do my massively flawed original test properly.

LMG can't have it both ways. They can't have errors that they bury or minimally acknowledge in content, and then refuse to re-test products when it is objectively plain that their testing methodology was objectively flawed because they find it inconvenient or too costly, and expect to be taken seriously for benchmarks and lab content.

All of this is ignoring how they lost the 3090 Ti Billet sent, and mistakenly sold (an auction is a sale, even for charity) a prototype they didn't own from Billet for the monoblock, and just focuses on how LTT handled the testing and refusal to re-test of the Billet monoblock.

[Rex Hite]

I suggest LMG ignore the issue and just let short attention span, inertia and apathy solve the problem, inasmuch as there is a problem, which I think is being grossly overstated and amplified out of proportion anyway.

[Monolithic]

Just now, WTBMFWKEF said:

I can understand and agree about the public callout but I can also 100 percent guarantee you we do not know the full story on this. Thats all I am saying. Not even saying who is right and who is wrong. Just saying we do not know the whole story.

This is true, but it becomes an issue when we are getting two different stories.

 

The slighted party is saying something totally different than Linus is.

[Monolithic]

1 minute ago, Rex Hite said:

I suggest LMG ignore the issue and just let short attention span, inertia and apathy solve the problem, inasmuch as there is a problem, which I think is being grossly overstated and amplified out of proportion anyway.

Being LTT is down over 100k subs in 24 hours isn't looking good.

[Harlem_Shaker]

6 minutes ago, DrHax34 said:

 

Please stop spreading the idea GN did this out of jealously. Did they do it all 100% correctly? No, they did not. But LMG can't be excusable from the mistakes because they do present their findings on video as fact. But the fact is that the data isn't fully correct because not everything is set up correctly. LMG should AT LEAST present a disclaimer that their data may not be correct as their processes are still being tuned.

I wasn't the OP here, but I agreed with what was said.  And maybe jealousy isn't the right word...but you certainly can't objectively watch the attitude with which Steve talked about Linus in today's follow-up news segment and say that it wasn't vindictive.  Maybe people are cool with that, but to me it seems pretty personal.  Which sucks because I liked Steve.

I'm not saying he didn't make some decent points.  Again, an objective person has to acknowledge that.  As bad as it makes LMG look, I personally think GN is taking an L on this one too.  Based on everything I'm reading everywhere though, I'm sure I'm in the minority there.

[RangerSavage]

7 minutes ago, WTBMFWKEF said:

Maybe its just Steves demeanor in the videos but I just disagree. Its the entire way he acts in the video. To me when I watch the videos his demeanor is in a very attacking way. I don't know Steve personally. Maybe that is just the way he is. Just did not come off right to me.

That's genuinely how Steve talks.

[eece_ret]

Just now, Monolithic said:

Bro...you just joined 2020.....you aren't old school either....

Not espousing that one way or the other.  Only that joining only to quit is, putting it nicely, silly.

[Uttamattamakin]

1 minute ago, Blademaster91 said:

No I think people would have been a lot more positive if Linus had put a genuine apology and publicly apologized to Billet, people are upset because Linus tried to dismiss the whole thing with a non-apology corporate sounding statement, and trying to say they didn't sell the water block, then only paying Billet when GN went public with the video.

An apology would be good.  I mean how much do you need?  I have only seen a public figure all caps APOLOGISE for anything once.  IT was this guy way back in the 1980's.  I don't agree with his views on much but I do still respect that he did. 

I don't think he needs to go full Swaggart but just frank honesty I messed up.  I am the one whose name is on the building.  I am one of the high officers of the company no matter what my title.  On behalf of LMG I am so sorry to Billet Labs etc etc.  Talk about what they'll do in the future to ensure nothing like this happens again. 

[Monolithic]

1 minute ago, eece_ret said:

Not espousing that one way or the other.  Only that joining only to quit is, putting it nicely, silly.

Oh, I didn't have that context. My bad. I came in halfway through the convo. I agree.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Monolithic

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Alexeygridnev1993 said:

It doesn't matter! Even if Steve was a complete dick who was just jealous of Linus (he is not, but just for the sake of an argument) - how does it make Linus look any better? Steve is factually completely correct.

The whole point of Steve's video was about journalistic Integrity and the lack of it from LTT. My point is you cant act like you have a personal issue with the person you are going after, claim its for better of the community and do it in a way that is unprofessional. It undermines Steve's whole point.

 

Also Steve may not be factually incorrect on anything he said but I would say the same thing about Linus's statement. He said nothing that was not also factually correct. Just because he told the truth doesn't mean we have the whole story.

[andreimj]

1 minute ago, WTBMFWKEF said:

I can understand and agree about the public callout but I can also 100 percent guarantee you we do not know the full story on this. Thats all I am saying. Not even saying who is right and who is wrong. Just saying we do not know the whole story.

You're suggesting on people to reason to common sense and logic? Now that's egregious. The response of the community absolutely astounded me. They glorified the said "victim" for a mediocre product... 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Harlem_Shaker said:

I wasn't the OP here, but I agreed with what was said.  And maybe jealousy isn't the right word...but you certainly can't objectively watch the attitude with which Steve talked about Linus in today's follow-up news segment and say that it wasn't vindictive.  Maybe people are cool with that, but to me it seems pretty personal.  Which sucks because I liked Steve.

I'm not saying he didn't make some decent points.  Again, an objective person has to acknowledge that.  As bad as it makes LMG look, I personally think GN is taking an L on this one too.  Based on everything I'm reading everywhere though, I'm sure I'm in the minority there.

I 100 percent agree with this. Any maybe its my bad for using the world jealousy. But Steve was very vindictive and I hate the personal attack. Linus screws up a lot but never went on a personal attack. Even when Linus was talking about GN on the wan show, they never used there name.

[Monolithic]

Just now, andreimj said:

You're suggesting on people to reason to common sense and logic? Now that's egregious. The response of the community absolutely astounded me. They glorified the said "victim" for a mediocre product... 

But we don't know if it was mediocre, it was never tested properly and never will be.

[PandaSquawk]

4 minutes ago, Uttamattamakin said:

Misappropriated, Embezzled, etc.  The result is the same.  Suppose it was someone or some company you did not like that did the same thing.  What would you say? 

I don't know... How about something accurate and truthful?

 

Off the top of my head let's go with "mistakenly auctioned for charity." Or, if you're feeling less charitable how about "negligently sold?"

[Silent Node]

5 minutes ago, Rex Hite said:

I suggest LMG ignore the issue and just let short attention span, inertia and apathy solve the problem, inasmuch as there is a problem, which I think is being grossly overstated and amplified out of proportion anyway.

I assume you're just commenting here while taking a break from your role as CEO of Reddit? 

[Guest]

Just now, Monolithic said:

But we don't know if it was mediocre, it was never tested properly and never will be.

That is just simply not true

[DrHax34]

Just now, Harlem_Shaker said:

I wasn't the OP here, but I agreed with what was said.  And maybe jealousy isn't the right word...but you certainly can't objectively watch the attitude with which Steve talked about Linus in today's follow-up news segment and say that it wasn't vindictive.  Maybe people are cool with that, but to me it seems pretty personal.  Which sucks because I liked Steve.

I'm not saying he didn't make some decent points.  Again, an objective person has to acknowledge that.  As bad as it makes LMG look, I personally think GN is taking an L on this one too.  Based on everything I'm reading everywhere though, I'm sure I'm in the minority there.

People are reading his attitude as jealous or "attacking" mainly because of personal and mindset bias. If you go into a video with the mindset of "This guy is attacking Linus again" or "Man, Linus did some shit again", you'll get different emotional readings each time, specifically because of mindset bias.

 

It's basically why people have different views and opinions on content, because everyone understands something differently based on their own multiple unconscious bias. I read Linus apology and thought initially "huh, this doesn't seem too bad". But after realizing I had a unconscious bias benefitting LMG, I understood that yes, it's a not a well made apology and LMG needs to do better.