Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[ILikeHardware]

3 minutes ago, andreimj said:

You're suggesting on people to reason to common sense and logic? Now that's egregious. The response of the community absolutely astounded me. They glorified the said "victim" for a mediocre product... 

In what way did they glorify the victim? As far as I could tell, the outrage was how they handled the product of a startup company. Could you elaborate?

[aka473]

12 minutes ago, PandaSasquatch said:

LLMs are not a "party." They are very imperfect and imprecise tools. So called "machine translators" are also tools. One being better than the other doesn't matter. You should not rely on them to form your opinions, or assume that their outputs are free of bias.

I did not say they were unbiased. But they aren't biased in a way that materially matters to this conversation. My point about LLM being exceptionably good at identifying the contextual meaning of words and phrases is very much valid. There is a reason why LLMs are nearly 100% more accurate than a machine translator at translating one language to another.

[Monolithic]

Just now, WTBMFWKEF said:

That is just simply not true

It was built for a 3090ti. Billet sent the product with a 3090ti. LTT lost the 3090ti. LTT then forces it onto a 4090. Then makes conclusion it isn't worth the money. Then doesn't return said item and auctions it off.

 

How was that proper testing?

[HiTechLowSpec]

20 minutes ago, aka473 said:

It is still a neutral party to all of this. And it has it's own biases just like any other human. AI, and LLMs in particular are especially good at understanding the definition of words in context. It's part of why they are so much better than machine translators.

LLMs are not "neutral". If you think so, you don't understand the technology. There is nothing sentient or intelligent in LLMs. The human element deeply influences their output. We're a long way from actual AI, but the term is thrown around in so many different contexts it has become meaningless. The conversation of LLMs really belongs in another thread and doesn't belong here with failures in human interactions, IMHO.

[J82465]

Can we appretiate the irony of the LMG page policy on not selling hardware

https://linusmediagroup.com/contact-us

 

now we understand why linus thinks auctioning is not the same as selling

[joaopt]

disappointing to see the day go by and no real formal apology of any kind, you're making a hole you won't be able to get out off

[Saeumii]

22 minutes ago, Color Deaf said:

The charity part is irrelevant, the words "auction" and "sale" have meaning and both of them mean you have sold an item. Whether you donate the proceeds of that sale to charity doesn't change the fact that the item was sold.

i just don't want linus to be misrepresented as some greedy piece of scum who exploits the work of others for profit, when that evidently was not his intent

[whalemonster]

1 hour ago, XtraLarge said:

A lot of the criticism regarding Linus himself could be narrowed down to him being so overwhelmed with business, he hasn't had the time to think of all the context & outcomes in association with his work... the whole water block situation doesn't align at all with being stingy... It is only logical Linus misspoken in the moment. I am sure he hasn't even had time to arrange his thoughts. Give it time.
 

I agree with a lot of what you say, but it's incomplete. Steve's analysis re. the stress and errors resulting from an overly-tight production schedule was spot on, imho. A lot of staff interviewees said as much in the recent video re. working for LMG. And for a post-startup in the accelerate phase, that's not necessarily unusual. However, many young companies misjudge the correct pace/step change of that acceleration when they first encounter it, and can get locked into a cycle thinking they have to operate that way, when in reality survival is possible (and more probable) doing slightly less, better. Unintentionally burning out yourself and the workforce is also not conducive to sustainability. Often with male tech CEOs, that frantic pace and a tendency to overreach is fundamentally related to various aspects of male psychology. That's all part of the issue. The other half of the equation, for me, is getting better at emotional intelligence. The infamous 'hot takes', knee-jerk quickfire judgements or opinions which by their nature are incompletely evidenced, might be meme-able and light-hearted on the one hand, but they also suggest a tendency toward hot-headedness, or worse, hubris. Neither of these traits command respect, and instances of them rearing their ugly heads are always cringeworthy on screen. They're personality flaws that self-aware leaders should be trying to work on and eliminate, rather than revel in. On this occasion, the scale of the knee-jerk defence posture and the rhetoric surrounding it are baffling and surprising. Every tech CEO gets at least one of these crises where for a moment, ego takes full control, they believe all of their own hype, say something silly in an emotional state, then have to swallow their pride and do the embarrassing climbdown / public apology. A greater degree of emotional intelligence could really have helped here. Knowing when to mentally step back, assess, and reinstate calm before responding could avert so many public missteps. It's not a skill prevalent among men in their 30s, let alone 30-something male tech CEOs, but it should be a requirement of the role. Sure, we can all do something stupid and apologise later, eat the humble pie, etc., but damage will have been done which was entirely avoidable had the inflicter spent a little more time on introspection. Breaking stuff and saying sorry as if that makes it fine is what we do when we're young and petulant. Finding humility, learning to listen, banishing pride, recognising your flaws, and resolving to fix them so you stop breaking things in the first place? That's grown-up behaviour, and it speaks to an inner wisdom which effortlessly commands trust and respect in those around you. Often on WAN, Linus and Luke mention being in their 30s and how old they suddenly feel. Ironically, I spend most of those moments thinking "If you only knew how young you sound."

I've found this whole affair quite bizarre and it has shaken my faith in LTT - a channel I've always loved and recommended - but I know it can be repaired. I wish to continue supporting the channel for many more years, so I dearly hope now we'll see some humility, atonement, and some level-headed, logical damage control. GN's video must have felt like a kick in the, well, in most places I guess,  but I suspect the vehemence of the reaction to it might be explained precisely because it highlighted publicly something that was already feared internally - that mistakes are being made, because things are moving too fast. I hope LTT takes this as a wake-up call and recentralises around its people to take better account of their needs and concerns. Some slight deceleration is required, but don't fear it. Those excellent humans, as the CEO well knows, are integral to the channel's success. Listen to them please - they're also your family (not Colton no). Content pays the bills, sure, but in a few decades from now, nobody retired from LTT will be fondly reminiscing about x million views on Video A, B or C. They'll be smiling as they recall how much they laughed, and with whom, while they were making it.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, JuanF Madrid said:

Can we appretiate the irony of the LMG page policy on not selling hardware

https://linusmediagroup.com/contact-us

 

now we understand why linus thinks auctioning is not the same as selling

I don't even feel I need to explain why this is just a bad take.

[SubLimation7]

I have always suspected he runs off of greed...

Now it is confirmed.

[andreimj]

1 minute ago, Monolithic said:

But we don't know if it was mediocre, it was never tested properly and never will be.

 

 

There you go. Linus explained why this product can never be a solution to cooling, but everyone is ignoring this. The difference between me and you is that I don't need a reviewer to tell me what to think. You people are just regurgitating other people's opinions. The design is not only mediocre at best but also wastful (milling a block of high purity copper) but also 800$ (reduced from 900 btw)

[Monolithic]

1 minute ago, Saeumii said:

i just don't want linus to be misrepresented as some greedy piece of scum who exploits the work of others for profit, when that evidently was not his intent

Honestly, it being a charity is worse. Is it ok for someone to steal your money as long as they donate it to charity? LTT included a totally innocent third party in this whole thing, the charity.

[HiTechLowSpec]

26 minutes ago, Monolithic said:

So "He is responsible, but he is not responsible" is your response? huh....

You having a problem with comprehension? Have you ever heard the President Harry S. Truman phrase, "The buck stops here..."?

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Monolithic said:

It was built for a 3090ti. Billet sent the product with a 3090ti. LTT lost the 3090ti. LTT then forces it onto a 4090. Then makes conclusion it isn't worth the money. Then doesn't return said item and auctions it off.

 

How was that proper testing?

It did not need to be properly tested to know it was not going to work in the first place and that no one should have purchased it. It does not change the review. Whats going to be great is when this thing is tested by another company, I bet GN will get one soon and the temps are the same.

[tkrsh_rage]

Sadge

[Texbobcat]

2 minutes ago, andreimj said:

 

 

There you go. Linus explained why this product can never be a solution to cooling, but everyone is ignoring this. The difference between me and you is that I don't need a reviewer to tell me what to think. You people are just regurgitating other people's opinions. The design is not only mediocre at best but also wastful (milling a block of high purity copper) but also 800$ (reduced from 900 btw)

It's not intended to be a standard cooling solution, it's made for very unique builds like in a ps2 case where there really is no better solution due to the size constraint so obviously if you compare it to your standard block it will look like complete dog shit.

[RangerSavage]

Just now, Monolithic said:

It was built for a 3090ti. Billet sent the product with a 3090ti. LTT lost the 3090ti. LTT then forces it onto a 4090. Then makes conclusion it isn't worth the money. Then doesn't return said item and auctions it off.

 

How was that proper testing?

Billet also noted that there would be a gap between a 4090 and the prototype when mounting, since- yknow- it wasn't made for it. Which makes the cooler non-effective because it's being used improperly.

 

Linus's mixed response of "Well I didn't wanna retest it because it'd cost 500 in wages." (When spending 500K on a lab is affordable I don't see how paying your employees isn't affordable) On the WAN, only then to later post in here that it was more like "Nobody should buy this its too expensive." seemed to me to reek of changing tune when confronted on it. That said, it is entirely possible both reasons are true at the same time.  This stubborn attitude on telling people not to buy it because it's needlessly overengineered is frankly quite silly coming from the channel that jerryrigged an entire AC unit to cool a CPU.

[Monolithic]

1 minute ago, andreimj said:

 

 

There you go. Linus explained why this product can never be a solution to cooling, but everyone is ignoring this. The difference between me and you is that I don't need a reviewer to tell me what to think. You people are just regurgitating other people's opinions. The design is not only mediocre at best but also wastful (milling a block of high purity copper) but also 800$ (reduced from 900 btw)

You should look into your source before using them. His other posts are begging for help because they cannot figure out why their GPU is crashing....this is not a person I would trust for info such as this.

[aka473]

12 minutes ago, Harlem_Shaker said:

I wasn't the OP here, but I agreed with what was said.  And maybe jealousy isn't the right word...but you certainly can't objectively watch the attitude with which Steve talked about Linus in today's follow-up news segment and say that it wasn't vindictive.  Maybe people are cool with that, but to me it seems pretty personal.  Which sucks because I liked Steve.

I'm not saying he didn't make some decent points.  Again, an objective person has to acknowledge that.  As bad as it makes LMG look, I personally think GN is taking an L on this one too.  Based on everything I'm reading everywhere though, I'm sure I'm in the minority there.

I mean, everything steve said about this being completely tee'd up for LMG to hit it out of the park is right. They just missed so hard that they ended up quadrupling down, and ended up nitpicking the video instead of actually responding to any points.

[eece_ret]

1 minute ago, JuanF Madrid said:

Can we appretiate the irony of the LMG page policy on not selling hardware

https://linusmediagroup.com/contact-us

 

now we understand why linus thinks auctioning is not the same as selling

Thats applying a pretty narrow view of this policy to make such a thin point.   Sat If you recall VAG was created during the height of the GPU scalping during C-Rona.  I cant imagine how many emails they had already gotten from viewers asking to buy review units.  Which if they obliged would preclude their ability to use them for their purposes.

This policy is clearly written to cover teh VAG program and sales, not a blanket policy covering LMG.

 

[joaopt]

Just now, WTBMFWKEF said:

It did not need to be properly tested to know it was not going to work in the first place and that no one should have purchased it. It does not change the review. Whats going to be great is when this thing is tested by another company, I bet GN will get one soon and the temps are the same.

 

wtf, there was no review in the 1st place because the product was misused, and a reviewer isn't supposed to not review and just say if i should buy something or not based on nothing but a clown show.

[Guest]

What bothers me about everyone in this situation is everyone is acting like LTT did something wrong to us.

 

Like did LTT make you buy something you should not of? Did they steel your money? Did they kill your first born son?

 

Like damn everyone has there own issues in real life and making way to big of a deal about stuff that really does not matter.

[ddpp]

4 minutes ago, Saeumii said:

i just don't want linus to be misrepresented as some greedy piece of scum who exploits the work of others for profit, when that evidently was not his intent

Yeah, wouldn’t want the anti-union guy who constantly spams ads in your face to be portrayed as a scumbag…

[WhateverGuy]

11 minutes ago, WTBMFWKEF said:

Also Steve may not be factually incorrect on anything he said but I would say the same thing about Linus's statement. He said nothing that was not also factually correct. Just because he told the truth doesn't mean we have the whole story.

If Linus did not in fact reach an agreement with Billet Labs before the release of the video, that would be a factually incorrect lie, and a real scumbag move.

[Monolithic]

1 minute ago, WTBMFWKEF said:

What bothers me about everyone in this situation is everyone is acting like LTT did something wrong to us.

 

Like did LTT make you buy something you should not of? Did they steel your money? Did they kill your first born son?

 

Like damn everyone has there own issues in real life and making way to big of a deal about stuff that really does not matter.

Why make a forum if you only want it to be used for positive replies about you?

 

Is this really your defense?