Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[RevengeofProfKatz]

1 minute ago, PandaSasquatch said:

I'm going to point out the most glaring problem with what you said....

 

Linus is not LMG and clearly did not personally handle every bit of the communication between LMG and Billet Labs.

Linus is the owner of the company, and its front-man, along with being the person WHO DIRECTLY disparaged the prototype, and Billet, in his own preview video and words. He is therefore the most responsible person in this situation. Linus also LIED about his own direct communications with Billet on his own post on this thread.

The only glaring problem here is the fact that Linus is a lying piece of shit who tried to ghost a up and coming company after selling off their prototype, and that some people keep trying to defend his actions. Nothing else to say on the matter.

[Vilacom]

4 minutes ago, Monolithic said:

Tell that to professional overclockers that spend thousands of dollars on mobo's and pots....

Lol professional overclockers use LIQUID NITROGEN to do their cooling, as I’ve mentioned in other places.  It’s not that there isn’t a market, it’s that the market that exists doesn’t need or want LTT or any other reviewer to tell them if something is good value or price to performance.  

I’m pretty sure anyone with the adjective “Professional” in their name doesn’t give a shit what LTT or GN have to say, they have their own bespoke parts and processes to do their work.  They are not what this is marketed for at all, this is an expensive piece of bling to make a system look cool, and it does that quite well, just like a nice Rolex or corvette, but its a stupid thing to buy if you actually care about value or performance 

[Super_goose_007]

11 minutes ago, VascoM said:

So you know Steve from school ?

His reviews of his high school mates personal computers were dastardly!

[aka473]

1 minute ago, HiTechLowSpec said:

Is that the point. To have the gotcha' moment rather than someone being informed of a problem so that a resolution can be made quickly? Perhaps this was just a corporate screw-up that didn't even need to be a video...but we can't let that happen. Ready, Fire, AIM!!!!!

If Linus/LMG wanted to resolve the Billet Labs issue, they shouldn't have sold the block to begin with.

[Taf the Ghost]

Just now, Monolithic said:

You are talking about a person who built pipes in his swimming pool to cool his personal servers at home.

 

He had the ability to do a good review on the product and just chose not too. He could have easily told Bullet he didn't want to review it until it was more user friendly, and allowed someone else who could review it in a manner that would have showcased the products abilities cvorrectly.

They misplaced the 3090 Ti that was went by Billet. The "review" actually gets worse the more information we get.  They could have canceled the shoot until they were at least prepared.

[Middcore]

1 minute ago, ZombieMan762 said:

 

What's disturbing about that attitude is Linus is presuming he knows what is best for his viewers. People like to build PC's with parts that don't make financial sense. Linus has made a name for himself with ridiculous builds that don't make financial sense like $100,000 desk PC video they just did. So, it's ok for Linus to make money off producing content on products that don't make financial sense but thinks his viewers don't need to know if a product even works or not because he had already made up his mind no one should buy the water block so it didn't even deserve using the right parts in the review. 

 

Exactly on point. 

 

Price/value is one valid area to examine in a review of a product. Simply pre-emptively deciding that by your own subjective standards a product is too expensive for anyone to buy, and then pre-determining that the bottom line of the review must be negative because of that, isn't doing anyone a service... and Linus is just about the last person qualified to make judgments about what's good value for money. 

[jooroth18]

8 minutes ago, PandaSasquatch said:

That is not what happened. Why not use the quote from Linus directly?

He said that "we" (meaning LMG) agreed to to compensate them, not that Billet Labs had a formal agreement with LMG. Billet Labs had already sent an email to LMG that included an estimate of it's value.

LMG never asked Billet for an estimate, they made an assumption based on a prior email that billet sent with a ball park number. when someone is mad at you for doing something, do you really think everything in that email will be 100% true and not estimation? Billet labs email was intended to indicate the severity of the situation, so that further emails can be made discussing compensation. THOSE EMAILS DID NOT OCCUR WHEN LINUS'S POST WAS MADE.

 

an agreement is made between two people. If you really think that the agreement was between LMG staff, do you really think he would have worded it the way he did?

No, he would have worded it like this:
we are planning to compensate Billet labs for damages, and are in talks with them right now about the situation.

 

Here is an unbiased third party review of the words:


and since you want to make sure im not doing biases, here is a full link to the chat:
https://chat.openai.com/share/b96d29c9-177e-4cdb-bc6f-f951c26a1dac

[Blademaster91]

16 minutes ago, PandaSasquatch said:

I'm going to point out the most glaring problem with what you said....

 

Linus is not LMG and clearly did not personally handle every bit of the communication between LMG and Billet Labs.

Linus still represents LMG and is being the the face of LMG, unless he plans on handing over the job of CEO, and having someone else manage the PR then Linus is partly to blame and should publicly apologize for the Billet block issue.

20 minutes ago, Vilacom said:

Then it’s still not worth spend $800 for, there is a limit how much performance you get with more cooling and we know the upper bounds by people pouring literal liquid nitrogen on CPUs to test extreme overclocking.

Copper is not magical, there is no level of cool engineering that makes heat transferring into water that much more efficient.  There is no reason to ever spend $800 on a gpu block. That’s been proven multiple times by multiple channels doing tests of custom water cooling vs good air coolers, a pretty block does not change that and does not change basic thermodynamics

Well if Linus though it wasn't worth $800 then why was it even accepted for review?

Also overclockers and enthusiasts spend way more than $800 on hardware, a full custom water cooling loop with glass or copper tubing isn't worth $1000, but that is what some of them cost because people buy them.

 

[Poagie]

1 minute ago, Vilacom said:

Yes there are people who would buy something like this, just like there are people who will spend $50,000 on a purse and $350,000 on a watch.  The performance of those products isn’t why they’re being purchased, its entirely down to status and looks, so the review couldn’t matter less, people with that kind of disposable income are just gonna buy top of the line everything and then make it look how they want it.  

They don’t look at reviews for price and performance, they just want the best of everything. 

Well you made the point. They want the best of everything. Something that costs a lot should work right? Well LTT didn't even give it a chance to work correctly. They used it improperly and told everyone it doesn't work. So those people who would consider that block at what ever price now won't. All because a channel and company that is branding themselves as accurate, as ethical and against internal testing corporations use because of transparency issues. Just potentially broke all their own philosophies and could ruin a small company... And seemingly stole from them. Though how those agreements work on paper I have no clue

[VALKUR811]

Linus man I hope you are reading these, you should know exactly how gamers nexus work. They will point out the flaws in the raw with the hard line of integrity over all else. The way to respond to him is devastatingly simple: admit and acknowledge all the errors, no excuses own it and say you will do better. Say what you are going to do to make things right and how in explicit detail. Transparently say how and why and what happened with billet labs with no excuses other than, we are going to make this right. The video was in fact quite fair and even gave constructive advice. It may not have been what you wanted to hear but he has a point on all accounts. The answer is complete and utter humility.

 

I love LTT because you represent a lot of techeads who love to see cool experiments and jank as well as reviews. You have of course always been as open as can be reasonably done. But your response to this video is a massively lost opportunity. You need to respond with complete ownership and accountability and take one for your 100+ people team  because it will show a level of humility that the community demands because your whole business is built on it.

 

Do a proper video response. Eat the humble pie. You will thank yourself in a years time. 
 

 

[JoshuaScholar]

Linus, instead of covering up that you JUST got around to contacting Billet by saying "we have already agreed to compensate Billet Labs for the cost of their prototype" you should have said, "I am now reaching out to Billet Labs and offering to pay for the cost of their prototype."  See, admitting to the timeline isn't hard!

 

Maybe you should also pay for the 3090 TI you lost as well.

 

Also, apologize. 

[eece_ret]

1 minute ago, aka473 said:

If Linus/LMG wanted to resolve the Billet Labs issue, they shouldn't have sold the block to begin with.

So time travel ??

[aka473]

Just now, jooroth18 said:

LMG never asked Billet for an estimate, they made an assumption based on a prior email that billet sent with a ball park number. when someone is mad at you for doing something, do you really think everything in that email will be 100% true and not estimation? Billet labs email was intended to indicate the severity of the situation, so that further emails can be made discussing compensation. THOSE EMAILS DID NOT OCCUR WHEN LINUS'S POST WAS MADE.

 

an agreement is made between two people. If you really think that the agreement was between LMG staff, do you really think he would have worded it the way he did?

No, he would have worded it like this:
we are planning to compensate Billet labs for damages, and are in talks with them right now about the situation.

 

Here is an unbiased third party review of the words:


and since you want to make sure im not doing biases, here is a full link to the chat:
https://chat.openai.com/share/b96d29c9-177e-4cdb-bc6f-f951c26a1dac

I wish I thought of doing this first. Good post!

[Saeumii]

4 minutes ago, dustypaws said:

Nah mate...it's just honest disappointment. Disappointed by somebody who preaches higher moral standards on any occasion he gets.

"honest disappointment" while depicting his statements and behavior as hypocritical when they can be easily explained [in this situation, at least]... you'll excuse me if i don't believe that

[aka473]

Just now, eece_ret said:

So time travel ??

No I'm saying that it wouldn't have been an issue if they didn't sell it.

[jitteryzeitgeist]

Just now, Skipple said:

Right, so how is it typically handled? 

 

I work in ITSM process and compliance. I'm not sure how that's relevant. I'm not attempting to attack you. I'm asking a legitimate question.

You don't sell or recycle anything you didn't buy, you didn't receive and sign for, and you don't have paperwork for, for one.

 

You don't accidentally "give away" IP with a big company.  If they had done that with someone who has an army of lawyers instead of some small startup they'd be filing the lawsuit paperwork as we speak for breach.  Which is something I saw here because someone let a bit of IP slip out into the public from a large client, and even after it was returned we spent a year in the lawsuit settling terms.

 

He's lucky it's just a small startup who needs their product back more than months in international litigation.

[Pailloran]

5 minutes ago, Monolithic said:

No to mention a PR person would have stated, "We haven't heard back from Billet yet"

PR person also wouldn't have allowed a video to go up explaining how they are differentiating from GN and HUB by testing new hardware with new testing every time. They should have framed it as a vision and left unique entities out of it.

[Monolithic]

1 minute ago, VALKUR811 said:

 

Do a proper video response. Eat the humble pie. You will thank yourself in a years time. 
 

 

Honestly, at this point, this is the only outcome that would have me remain a fan.

[lyeuhm]

I've been on YouTube (watcher, and occasional creator) for a long time but this is probably the first time I recall a shit show in the tech space of this size.  There has been shit shows nearly every year that die off under a bridge because they're not really that big of an issue.

 

But this is insane.  Ignoring the data errors, ignoring accuracy, mistakes do happen, but the lack of responsibility and prior review of the things that were being auctioned off at LTX to the point that a one of a kind prototype was sold (however you want to word it Linus, it was sold) when the company wanted it back, didn't say you could auction it, and then you're response is "we'll reimburse them" is insane. 

 

I've ignored a lot of LTT "controversies" over the years because they've just been stupid things and I never really use the Forum at all - I think this is my forth account purely because I don't use it often enough to remember my login, but this is honestly insane and Linus' response was awful. 

 

Edit (22:51 BST):

 

I also refuse to believe that no one knows who now has the waterblock.  In the Gamer Nexus video you can see where people were writing their names down, so clearly they have some form of information as to who now owns it to try and get it back. 

 

It doesn't fix the issue that it was sold in the first place, but they could at least get it back for them and hope a competitor hasn't gotten their hands on it.

Edited August 15, 2023 by lyeuhm
additional comment

[rav007]

1 minute ago, jos said:

They have mentioned the labs are not fully functional yet, process are being set up, so at a transition time.l, Errors are expected. In this case a large company is trying something new. Everyone on the other side(labs) are new to LMG. It is new for Linus as well. He is used to long rants and entertainment. So there will be learning curve and need procedures and steps to make things right. At this phase, mistakes are quite common. What I would suggest for LMG is may be spin off labs to seperate channel.

In the formative phases where there are clear errors, it is absolutely unacceptable to allow quality control to let it out of the door. Your whole response is to say there will be errors as if thats a given, I disagree. When you hire the people he has hired with thr experience they have, and purchase the equipment and resources he has, the road to success should be faster than usual, and the people have the experience to know errors will surface so they do everything possible to mitigate them before release. But even if I was to humour your reponse for a moment, if errors are quite common then shouldnt even an inexperienced set of hires know about it to stop it going out of the door? And what does that mean for consumers or even companies who provide their products for testing? Are you saying everyone should give them a free pass and a pat on the back for trying? They have viewerships in the millions. They have a direct impact on market with the things they publish. They do not get a free pass for known incompetence.

[dustypaws]

1 minute ago, Saeumii said:

... you'll excuse me if i don't believe that

Yeah, you do you

[Monolithic]

1 minute ago, eece_ret said:

So time travel ??

Weird we never heard about this until GN's video.....not so much about transparency when it makes you look bad.

[RockerBug17]

1 minute ago, ColonelSupremePizza said:

To me, it would show that multiple people had reviewed it and chosen the words carefully to ensure the best outcome possible with such a statement. Would it be satisfactory? I doubt it, but it would at least show that it was something done with more people involved than Linus just free firing from the hip.

 

I hate PR damage control pieces as much as the next person, but EVERY time a person at a company tries to pull what Linus did and does everything to push the blame, ignore the actual issues, and sweep things under the rug while trying to twist the narrative, it's ended in disaster. Linus SHOULD NOT have the power to make and post such atrocious takes in answering serious allegations WITHOUT people reviewing it first. The focus should be on maintaining the brand or image reputation at all cost.

Makes since if there are stake holders. LMG is privately owned.

 

I just get the feeling people would be just as rabid if Linus had done exactly as you propose. He'd still have no 'tegridty but in the alternate timeline he'd also be a sell out. There's no win here for LMG. People just wanna be mad.

[ze77y]

On 8/14/2023 at 10:38 PM, LinusTech said:

Getting all the details before publication is *NOT* the opposite of journalistic integrity.

This isn't about being on a side... There's no war. You don't need to fight. You need to slow down and think.... 

You mean like you contacted Pwnage and Billet Labs before publishing the videos?

[Skipple]

1 minute ago, jitteryzeitgeist said:

You don't sell or recycle anything you didn't buy, you didn't receive and sign for, and you don't have paperwork for, for one.

See this is what is a bit confusing for me. Typically would there be some type of written agreement for something like this? I can't imagine prototypes are loaned out simply on good faith like this if the expectation is that they will be returned.