Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[jooroth18]

7 minutes ago, Corey Clak said:

^{Source? - Way back machines (And Social Blade) are showing the opposite of what you are saying.} 

^{They may have lost some but not a 100K.}

Yeah i saw that post and was confused. People were saying floatplane numbers dropped but cant confirm. It is notable that the latest video appears to be performing below expectations.

[TechDeckCAD]

Just now, Drazil100 said:

Just gonna drop this here so everyone is on the same page about this...

There's a gigantic difference between making a mistake, and then going through the necessary channels to ensure that a company will receive their products back, only to auction it instead. Are we really that naïve to think Linus couldn't just set aside the prototype to begin shipment for return?

 

By that point, you've long past the line of error and into intentional malice.

[Saeumii]

4 minutes ago, TechDeckCAD said:

Emailing a company that you're going to return their prototype, and then, you instead auction that product, with no recourse or compensation until GN calls him out, is incredibly malicious.

you're assuming it's not a breakdown in communication somewhere. if lmg doesn't have time to look over their videos before they're published, i wouldn't be surprised if they're so rushed that important information got lost in the noise

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, JuanF Madrid said:

can the new CEO Terren just put linus in his new place and stop him from his own stupidity

 

Linus should only read and act his part of the script, anything involving handling relations is clearly not his strong suit

 

Please LMG get a real PR person, also get this man out of the wan show if you want to last another 3 years

I 100 percent disagree. If this happens it will ruin LMG. You need to let Linus be Linus. As much as people disagree, everyone is there to watch him. You make him stop everyone will stop watching.

[divito]

19 hours ago, arcanition said:

Why does this reply really feel like you're saying "we'll pay you some money for the copper block we oopsie sold, go away and stfu about this"?

 

It doesn't feel like you're sorry for the situation. It feels like you think you did nothing wrong and just want to pay the money to get people to shut up.

The item is gone, making the company whole is the right thing to do due to the mistake that they made. You don't think Billet deserves to be compensated? 

[GS Echo]

On 8/15/2023 at 5:25 AM, LinusTech said:

There won't be a big WAN Show segment about this or anything. Most of what I have to say, I've already said, and I've done so privately.

Not having a big WAN Show segment about this would be LMG's next big mistake. 

[Corey Clak]

5 minutes ago, Monolithic said:

Someone posted a picture in the forum from socialblade showing thew numbers....like 30 pages ago.

Since YouTube's API changes, Social Blade (Subscriber Count Wise) is as accurate as just looking at the channel page. As they no longer have access to the live feed. Whilst yes they may have lost a few subscribers over this incident. But nowhere near 100K. 

[eece_ret]

Just now, Monolithic said:

Is there much difference between the first two? 1 is the reason for 2...

Wrong.

 

1:  I didnt know that could happen

2:  I knew that could happen but didnt do anything to preclude it.

3:  I set that shit like a trap cause Im crazy and ill do what I want 

 

[RangerSavage]

1 minute ago, WTBMFWKEF said:

I am not going to argue with someone that does not understand body cues or reactions but others have commented here about Steve as well. He had a personal issue with Linus and this was his way of handling it. I am not saying Steve was wrong but the video was unprofessional. Remember, these are not individual creators having a fight. These are two media publications that should be treated better from both sides.

You're deflecting good faith criticism by saying that Steve acted unprofessionally somehow. I'm asking how? Is there any actual proof beyond a tone of voice that can be interpreted as disappointment, anxiety, and dumbfoundedness (or all the above?) what standard of reporting would somehow be better? If maybe steve put makeup on and kissed LTT's toes before he started explaining that they'd really fucked up and sold off a prototype that could have ended up in a competitors hands?

[jooroth18]

1 minute ago, TechDeckCAD said:

There's a gigantic difference between making a mistake, and then going through the necessary channels to ensure that a company will receive their products back, only to auction it instead. Are we really that naïve to think Linus couldn't just set aside the prototype to begin shipment for return?

 

By that point, you've long past the line of error and into intentional malice.

I mean its plausible to think that a process like that isnt built into their inventory system. 

[TechDeckCAD]

4 minutes ago, eece_ret said:

If executed by teh same person sure I guess.  However if the left hand and right hand are not aware of their independent actions.  Things fall through the cracks.  Sometimes literally and in places youd last expect

 

https://www.computerworld.com/article/2590600/fbi-ends-investigation-into-missing-los-alamos-hard-drives.html

 

So your premise relies on Linus literally not having any authority to go "ohey, set this piece aside, we have to return this to the sender in x days/weeks"

[mitcHELLspawn]

4 minutes ago, WTBMFWKEF said:

My question was not stupid. You act like you were personally attacked by Linus or LMG. My point is thats not the case and everyone needs to chill out. Even if millions of people watch LTT, they do not owe you anything. Thats just the truth. If you don't like the issues then unsub and stop watching videos.

I literally have nothing to work with here. This is such a braindead take.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, codemak said:

LTT and GN have a long history.  While true, this isn't how you handle a "team" company. 

 

Here one example of a better way to handle that conversation:

 

"Linus, LTT has been making some non-negligible mistakes in recent videos and I am concerned about viewers receiving bad information.  At GN, we feel responsible to ensure that consumers get the most accurate information possible with little to no deception.  It's one of our company goals.  Knowing this, we're going to make a lengthy video detailing the errors LTT has made.  Out of respect to our friendship and parallel interests, I wanted to hear from you first before we go through with the videos.  I believe there may be a better way to move forward that benefits both of us while informing the consumer about the issues at hand."

 

Also, GN owes at least some of it's success to LTT.  They had Steve on several videos in the past which helped get his name out there.  Many people discovered GN through LTT.  If Steve denies that he is delusional, even through his obvious youtube grind.

 

Finally a take a 100 percent agree with. This is exactly how GN should have handled it.

[justin one]

2 minutes ago, Saeumii said:

you're assuming it's not a breakdown in communication somewhere. if lmg doesn't have time to look over their videos before they're published, i wouldn't be surprised if they're so rushed that important information got lost in the noise

wow sounds like a them problem bro

[RandomDude843]

If floatplane losing subs don’t wake up £inu$, i dont know what will.

 

I am enjoying the memes on reddit though. I dont mind this going for a bit longer. Keep em coming!

[Nyotengu]

8 minutes ago, WTBMFWKEF said:

My question was not stupid. You act like you were personally attacked by Linus or LMG. My point is thats not the case and everyone needs to chill out. Even if millions of people watch LTT, they do not owe you anything. Thats just the truth. If you don't like the issues then unsub and stop watching videos.

This is such a bad take. They sell themselves as tech reviewers, the least they can do is do it properly. I don’t understand what are you gaining by so vehemently defending LTT? Wouldn’t you think the channel you love do better if they applied more care to their review process?

[Corey Clak]

3 minutes ago, jooroth18 said:

Yeah i saw that post and was confused. People were saying floatplane numbers dropped but cant confirm. It is notable that the latest video appears to be performing below expectations.

Yeah, I am not saying that. Across all channels in which they have uploaded since this incident. You can tell the view /Like count is less than normal. To be utterly honest, give this a week maybe two. It may not be forgotten about, but it will be like the Trust me bro incident. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, mitcHELLspawn said:

I literally have nothing to work with here. This is such a braindead take.

How is that a braindead take? Its just 100 percent fact. Everyone on the internet just needs to get the pitchforks and act like there the victim. They when being called out on it, they lash out.

[TechDeckCAD]

2 minutes ago, Saeumii said:

you're assuming it's not a breakdown in communication somewhere. if lmg doesn't have time to look over their videos before they're published, i wouldn't be surprised if they're so rushed that important information got lost in the noise

Linus literally worked on the video, why should I give him benefit of the doubt that it was a logistical error that resulted in auctioning of the product? He could've taken 5 minutes to go "no one touch this, we're sending this back."

The fact that LTT didn't even attempt to do right by Billet until GN came out with the video speaks for itself.

[Philz69]

What a terrible response. Tripling down on the Billet Labs situation without offering anything of value about the rest of the issues is unacceptable. You simply tried to deflect responsability and point at others. I have personally cancelled my floatplane subscription following this debacle.

[ayysub]

1 minute ago, codemak said:

LTT and GN have a long history.  While true, this isn't how you handle a "team" company. 

 

Here one example of a better way to handle that conversation:

 

"Linus, LTT has been making some non-negligible mistakes in recent videos and I am concerned about viewers receiving bad information.  At GN, we feel responsible to ensure that consumers get the most accurate information possible with little to no deception.  It's one of our company goals.  Knowing this, we're going to make a lengthy video detailing the errors LTT has made.  Out of respect to our friendship and parallel interests, I wanted to hear from you first before we go through with the videos.  I believe there may be a better way to move forward that benefits both of us while informing the consumer about the issues at hand."

 

Also, GN owes at least some of it's success to LTT.  They had Steve on several videos in the past which helped get his name out there.  Many people discovered GN through LTT.  If Steve denies that he is delusional, even through his obvious youtube grind.

 

Firstly, the LTT Lab called out Gamers Nexus by saying they don't run new components/new tests. How is that "handling" a "team" company. 

 

Secondly, Gamers Nexus doesn't owe LTT anything, regardless of how much help they received. Saying something like that risks journalistic integrity and its how bad company cultures develop. Look at how Linus handled the criticism publicly, he wouldn't have changed anything if it was delivered behind closed doors. Everyone knows Linus doesn't take criticism well.  

[aka473]

12 minutes ago, Nintendo Prime said:

I am a huge fan of LTT. Been watching them since basically the end of the NCIX days in the very early Linus and Luke days. I am a "somewhat" successful youtuber myself in a different space. I am nowhere near LTT or GN's size, but I support 3 kids and my wife doing YouTube with 130k+ subs talking about Nintendo games, news, and the tech they use. I present this to give some context for my viewpoint as a fellow content creator who has also made mistakes, dealt with call outs, and how this whole mess has gone down.

For starters, Linus does need to stop pretending that the tech community of youtubers should still be treating him as buddy-buddy. Gamers Nexus made it known ages ago that he can no longer treat LMG like it's just your average tech youtube channel anymore - they are big corporation with over 100 employees and now run 6 actively successful youtube channels where the lowest subbed one is at 421k... and it's Game Linked which is their newest and still growing. Almost all of the other tech youtubers in this space have a single channel - sometimes maybe 3 max. One for all their main content, another for a podcast of sorts, and then maybe a 3rd for clips.

But in generally, they are a one channel show. Even with millions of subs. Even MKBHD who does have a handful of channels - only the podcast channel and his main channel are consistently active. The others just get videos whenever. No real schedule. So even other megasized youtubers don't really do what LMG does, and certainly don't have 100+ employees.

Now, all of this isn't to say this is a mistake on LMG's part. Linus has a vision for what LMG can be, and that vision is extremely ambitious compared to other channels in the space and he has every right to use the success he's built to continue chasing that vision. But, along with that vision comes the responsibility of accepting you are no longer going to be treated like an everyday tech youtuber anymore. You have a literal corporate structure with managers and people working for you from major parts of the tech industry. 

 

This prefaces what I am saying, because Gamers Nexus doesn't reach out and wait for comment from any other major organization. He didn't with ASUS (nor did Jayztwocents), and nobody blasted him for that. He didn't with newegg - and again - nobody blamed steve for that. In fact, it's arguably his newegg videos actually may have long haul lead to positive change - or at least an attempt at it given how newegg responded, which was in a very professional way. It is not on him, to reach out privately to corporations and get a list of excuses for why there is objectively bad flaws with videos. Also, with the borrowed and auctioned off part - GN can't be seen showing bias to a tech youtuber by getting their response to it first before publication, when the other sided provided a bunch of evidence that's all dated.

I will say, Steve maybe could have at least gotten a remark from LMG before bringing up this aspect of it, but when the damn thing is publicly auctioned off at LTX... it's hard to wait. Still, I can agree with some here that he should have asked Linus first, and gotten both sides before publication. A flaw in GN's process.

But, everything else he pointed out in that video is fair game and he doesn't need to contact LMG to get a list of excuses for WHY incorrect data is being used in videos, or how important they think that data is to the final statement - if it's not important, why include it? And, because so many data flaws keep happening, how can we have faith in data from labs in the future, when Linus has talked at length about how important accurate data is, while the content presents inaccurate data?

This isn't talking about Linus' response, which feels a lot like how he responds to most things which is to go on the defensive, and take some time before he realizes the errors going on. He was that way with the backpacks before Luke seemingly got him to understand it more and then he eventually changed tunes a bit. Enough to satisfy the issues, at least. And the new CEO clearly wasn't going to stop him - Linus may not be CEO, but he is still the owner. So it still falls on him, either way, unfortunately.

LTT has inspired me to built sets and I've used their recommendations for equipment and other purchases made to do my job. I love their content so much. But I also believe in integrity. As content creators - big and small - we all make mistakes. And sometimes we don't even realize it. But when those mistakes are pointed out, the only correct way to respond is to acknowledge it, deeply apologize, and talk about and figure a way to help mitigate similar mistakes in the future. Calling out the other outlet for pointing out your many mistakes is not a good way of responding. 

Steve isn't infallible. He makes mistakes but does often own up to them at least without needing a lot of pushback. And how he handled this situation wasn't 100% perfect in every respect, but it doesn't make what he presented any more factually incorrect. I think for him, just as someone who works with other youtubers, making that video wasn't probably easy. There are likely people at LMG, Linus included, Steve actually gives a shit about. And he is trying his best to treat this like he woudl any other company.

In the end, Linus needs to better address this and I hope he pulls a newegg, invites Steve to come out, and then hash it out.

Nuance? On the Internet? Somebody take the computer away from this person!!!!!

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Nyotengu said:

This is such a bad take. They sell themselves as tech reviewers, the least they can do is do it properly. I don’t understand what are you gaining by so vehemently defending LTT? Wouldn’t you think the channel you love do better if they applied more care to their review process?

I am not saying they cant improve and yes they can do way better with a better review process. I am just against the people that are making this sound like its the end of the world. Someone literally compared this to a school shooting. My point was people need to relax and realize this is YouTube drama and not as crazy as some make it to believe.

[eece_ret]

Just now, TechDeckCAD said:

So your premise relies on Linus literally not having any authority to go "ohey, set this piece aside, we have to return this to the sender in x days/weeks"

So your premise relies on assumptions that Linus, personally, was and is the sole point of contact with Billet Labs as well as the sole point of contact coordinating the internal logistical processes involved in assuring it is properly handled and discharged to teh mfg.

Isnt it more likely the coordination with Billet was done by LMG Staffer 1 while the logistical aspects of LMG are Staffer 2 and LTX auction person LMG Staffer 3.  If 1 doesnt in a timely fashion alert 2 of the need to return to mfg it could have been snagged by 3 for auction.  Classic race condition, and it looks like #3 is our winner.

[zoey]

I've watched Linus for a very long time now, same with Steve.

 

What the actual fuck Linus, you're just digging the hole deeper with that response knowing damn well Steve had receipts. Your ego has gotten so big that everyone else is wrong, you can't be.

 

Anyone at LMG got a needle to pop it and bring him back to earth? Where's Terren's response to this? This is his ship now (even if he's not full time and still working remote).