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The amount of (seemingly intentional) misinformation in LTT and ShortCircuit content about anything made by Apple (and featuring Alex) is alarming

just_dave
By just_dave
in General Discussion
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Posted
16 minutes ago, hishnash said:

Linus should know better after all he has started down the line of designing thier own products soon enough they will build something that requires certification and suddenly be faced with the option of either submitting for the design to be accepted as a new standard in every nation of the world or intentionally modifying the design so that it does not fall under the spec of what would need certification.

That is what happened with the power cable. Had apple made it easily removable (given the depth of the display) the only option would be to submit and have certified a new consumer power plug in every region they want to sell the screen. Since you cant ship a product with mains voltage detachable plugs that are not certified.  But this does not apply to internal connectors or connectors not intended for consumers to detach (including accidentally).  So apple had to make the plug harder to remove so that it cant be considered a consumer plug but rather an internal connector.. Apple does not want to do this, it is much effort for apples staff in apple stores (this costs apple $$ as apples rents for these stores are high so every minute a staff member is working on detaching a broken cable is rent and lots of it). They would much prefer (from a profit perspective) if it were as simple as just pulling a cable off the wall and telling the customer to do it themselves.  

 

But given the design team wanted to build a screen of that thickness and did not want to have a power brick this is the option they have.  
 

 

This argument relies on the assumption that apple couldn't have used any of the many already certified cable and plug options out there.  What was wrong with the standard downward facing IEC-c13 or if they didn't need the ground a C7 would be even better.

 

If thickness of the product was an issue for either of these then it was a design choice, not a technical issue.

 

 

 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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Posted
37 minutes ago, hishnash said:

That is what happened with the power cable. Had apple made it easily removable (given the depth of the display) the only option would be to submit and have certified a new consumer power plug in every region they want to sell the screen. Since you cant ship a product with mains voltage detachable plugs that are not certified. 

Just ... no. That ain't how that works for power plugs, you can run with your own design of those and plenty of devices used to do so, it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense:

  • You can most definitely self-certify to the necessary standards in 99% of the cases. You don't even have to do any of the tests, you can certify by documentation or design as well. But it means you're liable if you screw up.
  • You now got to get custom manufacturing lines for whatever connector you devised.
  • Assuming you're responsible, you now got to determine a large battery of custom tests for things like the pull-out force of the crimping on the metal terminals, etc.
  • You now got to warehouse another SKU and manage the supply chain of all of that.

Meanwhile, if you just slap a standard C7 or C13 on there, you can buy them wrapped up and bagged, ready to toss into the box of your product. There are thousands of suppliers making these things, you don't have to consider the fact that there are like twenty or so different power sockets in use globally, etc. So Apple went through all this trouble to avoid using an IEC connector.

 

55 minutes ago, hishnash said:

But given the design team wanted to build a screen of that thickness and did not want to have a power brick this is the option they have.  

Now, given that they have a metal chassis, going for a C7 ain't an option in some jurisdictions since you'll have to earth the metal chassis. However, since it's Apple, and pragmatism is out of the window anyway, slightly increasing the thickness by a couple of mm to fit a C5 probably wasn't deemed feasible. But instead of going for the many alternative commercial solutions, they went with their own design, which honestly feels like a cash grab to lock people into using their Apple-only power cords.

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Posted
9 hours ago, mr moose said:

If thickness of the product was an issue for either of these then it was a design choice, not a technical issue.

 

Of course its a design choice, it is always a design choice what connector you use.  The argument however that they should have made the connector removable or that apple made the connector non removable to make it harder for consumers to repair goes agaist what is best for apple. They would love to have the connector removable as it would save them money but only if they don't need to pay the many millions it would cost to be certified globally. 

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8 hours ago, ImorallySourcedElectrons said:
  • You can most definitely self-certify to the necessary standards in 99% of the cases. You don't even have to do any of the tests, you can certify by documentation or design as well. But it means you're liable if you screw up.
  •  

So for power connector in most of the world the rules are that you must use one of a give number of existing connectors (for mains voltage) if you want to use new ones it is not enough to do your own testing you must submit these to the local Govs to be added to the approved list. 

Anything with mains voltage is very highly regulated. 
 

8 hours ago, ImorallySourcedElectrons said:

But instead of going for the many alternative commercial solutions, they went with their own design, which honestly feels like a cash grab to lock people into using their Apple-only power cords.

As I explained making thier own cord and making it harder to remove in the end cost apple more as the places were they will do this have externally high rents so each minute spent on the floor costs them thousands of $. It would only be a cash grab it they expected users to replace the cable thimbles and then tried to upset the suers to buy a longer cable or something. 

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Posted
52 minutes ago, hishnash said:

So for power connector in most of the world the rules are that you must use one of a give number of existing connectors (for mains voltage) if you want to use new ones it is not enough to do your own testing you must submit these to the local Govs to be added to the approved list. 

No, that's false. You must meet electric code, which usually has a whole list of requirements for connectors and power cords. If I recall correctly, in the US it's some UL standard I can't be bothered to remember the number/name of. However, they do not regulate the actual connector and cord design. There are some exceptions, but that's primarily in safety critical systems - such as medical devices where you must have connectors that can't be unplugged easily, are water ingress resistant, etc.

 

And again, even for cases where you must get listed and submit reports, you can still self-certify. It's incredibly common for things like electromagnetic emissions testing to happen in-house or based on a paper trail instead of doing a thorough analysis. It's just easier for everyone involved that way because it enables products to go to market without spending a couple of million on testing.

1 hour ago, hishnash said:

As I explained making thier own cord and making it harder to remove in the end cost apple more as the places were they will do this have externally high rents so each minute spent on the floor costs them thousands of $.

Which rent? o_O

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Posted

I’m just wondering why they haven’t put this all on MAC Address.

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Posted
On 2/2/2023 at 2:03 AM, LAwLz said:

I've said this before and I'll say it again. Do not watch LTT videos for information.

The amount of misinformation their videos contain is not just limited to Apple products. They constantly get things wrong all the time. Watch them for entertainment if you want, but don't watch them to be educated. 

 

 

I think Linus said that he wanted to be the Top Gear of tech. I don't think he has really succeeded in that. I think he is more like the Pimp My Ride of tech.

He has been failing hard. He just focuses on the money aspect. While Top Gear featured expensive wow content it wasn't entertaining for the sole fact things where really expensive. Linus also wants to have the Lab and make hyper specific Gamers Nexus style of videos but no one is going to trust them as a valid source

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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34 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Linus also wants to have the Lab and make hyper specific Gamers Nexus style of videos but no one is going to trust them as a valid source

I struggle to believe he will take the guidance from the lab when presenting that content. I remember him talking about audio equipment reviews and how the lab engineers had said that including recordings in YouTube (given all the compression and the fact users will be listing with different gear) was pointless and he still wanted to include recordings since that is what makes money not presenting facts. knowing that users would go about buying decisions based on these recordings rather than based on the dry data.

In end he is running an entertainment company. Even Gamers nexus need to adapt the content they present to be more entertaining over factual but I feel they do a better job of avoiding topics they are unable to present in an ok way even if those topic would create clicks.

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50 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

He has been failing hard. He just focuses on the money aspect. While Top Gear featured expensive wow content it wasn't entertaining for the sole fact things where really expensive. Linus also wants to have the Lab and make hyper specific Gamers Nexus style of videos but no one is going to trust them as a valid source

Steve will call him out if he finds shady unrepeatable data

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 ~Extra L3 cache is exciting, every time you load up a new game or program you never know what your going to get, will it perform like a 5700x or are we beating the 14900k today? 😅~

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1 hour ago, Ripred said:

Steve will call him out if he finds shady unrepeatable data

Absolutely, just like when he called him out for the warranty fiasco. 

"It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brain falls out." - Carl Sagan.

"I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you" - Edward I. Koch

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15 hours ago, hishnash said:

Of course its a design choice, it is always a design choice what connector you use.  The argument however that they should have made the connector removable or that apple made the connector non removable to make it harder for consumers to repair goes agaist what is best for apple. They would love to have the connector removable as it would save them money but only if they don't need to pay the many millions it would cost to be certified globally. 

Again, they don't need to pay anything to be certified with a removable connector if they just used one of the many options already certified and super fucking cheap to boot.

 

Apple literally re-invented the wheel so they could have a proprietary plug in a thinner device,  this is a design choice not an engineering limitation or certification issue. And like all design choices it will be driven by money. 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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On 2/5/2023 at 12:19 PM, hishnash said:

Linus should know better after all he has started down the line of designing thier own products soon enough they will build something that requires certification and suddenly be faced with the option of either submitting for the design to be accepted as a new standard in every nation of the world or intentionally modifying the design so that it does not fall under the spec of what would need certification. 

That's Apple's problem, not the consumer's problem. If Apple can't figure out detachable cables because of technology/bureocracy, it shouldn't be in the businness of selling devices for which having a removable cable is the industry standard feature.

It also is deeply embarassing for Apple. Other manufacturers seems to have no problem building monitors with detachable cables. All the R&D and legal budget of Apple can't achieve the industry standard? Shame on them.

  

On 2/6/2023 at 2:57 AM, BuckGup said:

Gamers Nexus style of videos but no one is going to trust them as a valid source

LTT Labs will need years to build up a reputation for sure, but it's not like it's impossible.

Linus giving back large amount of third party benchmark data (that is expensive to collect) is a laudable service to the tech community

My System: i7-13700F // Asus TUF 3080 10GB 

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Posted

Cannot agree more. Their Mac content in general is lacking in quality and they make mistakes that should not have appeared at all. It is actually ironic that Linus in a live stream said that we viewers are the ones not watching his apple content. Also, LTT content in general has fallen somewhat in quality. As can be seen from the XPS13plus video, which is a computer that suffers from horrible thermal problems due to the speakers blocking the air intake( I hope no one bought that) , not to mention the numerous repetitive PC building videos he releases every year( they used to be to showcase cool hardware, now it is just repetitive ). LTT content in general was better back in the x299 days. 

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20 minutes ago, 05032-Mendicant-Bias said:

That's Apple's problem, not the consumer's problem. If Apple can't figure out detachable cables because of technology/bureocracy, it shouldn't be in the businness of selling devices for which having a removable cable is the industry standard feature.

It also is deeply embarassing for Apple. Other manufacturers seems to have no problem building monitors with detachable cables. All the R&D and legal budget of Apple can't achieve the industry standard? Shame on them.

  

LTT Labs will need years to build up a reputation for sure, but it's not like it's impossible.

Linus giving back large amount of third party benchmark data (that is expensive to collect) is a laudable service to the tech community

It is certainly Apple's design choice and Apple most certainly is to blame, but just ignoring Linus's brutality when handling the information live from "it can't be removed" to " it can" is embarrassing, at one point even going as far to prepare to "break the monitor" to find out. This is not how research is done and certainly not how a company like Linus media group should have handled the situation. Searching the exact way to remove a non standard cable is, I guarantee you, not that hard, and full information should be achieved before they make videos about the product. ( Or else they would be "misleading consumers", something they are out to stop in the first place) Simply put, Apple should be criticized on making a bad product  decision and Linus should be criticized on his attitude towards his content. (Also, if you know, how exactly is LTT labs quote" giving back large amount of 3'd party benchmark data"? They hardly get featured in the videos and I think they should appear in more content LTT makes)

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On 2/5/2023 at 6:41 PM, RoseLuck462 said:

I’m just wondering why they haven’t put this all on MAC Address.

MAC address seems like an under funded, under recognized channel focused on the more "experience" aspect of apple products. It almost seems that the channel is used to draw Mac viewers away from the main channel. Linus himself seems to have little interest in apple or it's products in the first place, as I remember one of his videos about how his videos launched on the same day apple launched something always have less views forcing him to make apple content. ( I do not actually know if they are under funded so don't quote me on that)

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1 minute ago, Mackerel said:

MAC address seems like an under funded, under recognized channel focused on the more "experience" aspect of apple products. It almost seems that the channel is used to draw Mac viewers away from the main channel. Linus himself seems to have little interest in apple or it's products in the first place, as I remember one of his videos about how his videos launched on the same day apple launched something always have less views forcing him to make apple content. ( I do not actually know if they are under funded so don't quote me on that)

Since the 11 series of iPhones he's stopped reviewing them, then again he does have MAC Address for that,  but they tend to release their videos (for the most part) long after the apple products have been released. Come to think of it, Linus hasn't reviewed any flagship phones since the Note 20, with one exception, the galaxy fold.

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3 minutes ago, NB912 said:

Since the 11 series of iPhones he's stopped reviewing them, then again he does have MAC Address for that,  but they tend to release their videos (for the most part) long after the apple products have been released. Come to think of it, Linus hasn't reviewed any flagship phones since the Note 20, with one exception, the galaxy fold.

Well he sure does like his fold 🤣

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On 2/1/2023 at 6:33 AM, UndefinedException said:

Until now, there are 3 types of LTT videos you should not watch.

 

1. ShortCircuit - Riley reviewing smart watches

2. Linus Tech Tips - Any GPU benchmark video (they lost my trust since the RTX 4090 video)

3. [NEW!] ShortCircuit -  Alex reviewing Mac

They lost me on the 7900xtx/xt videos, but yeah. Linus does things sometimes.

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On 2/5/2023 at 8:49 PM, Ripred said:

Steve will call him out if he finds shady unrepeatable data

So what's the point in watching LTT if you have to go to another channel to verify it's factual 🤣

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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1 minute ago, BuckGup said:

So what's the point in watching LTT if you have to go to another channel to verify it's factual 🤣

To watch Linus get owned, plus they introduce us to technology and upcoming companies that we might otherwise have never known about

                          Ryzen 5800X3D(Because who doesn't like a phat stack of cache?) GPU - 7700Xt

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 ~Extra L3 cache is exciting, every time you load up a new game or program you never know what your going to get, will it perform like a 5700x or are we beating the 14900k today? 😅~

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On 2/7/2023 at 5:09 PM, BuckGup said:

So what's the point in watching LTT if you have to go to another channel to verify it's factual 🤣

i mean a lot of people. will watch 1 part of the video. then think they are expert to talk about it.

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Posted

Ahh yes.  The complaints in the OP are rooted in truth but they miss the broader non technical context.  Historically PC and Mac users were AT WAR all the time before Intel Macs were a thing. For that period Macs were just the same as "Wintel" / IBM compatible / Industry Standard Architecture PC's.  You know the kind you can walk into Micro Center or a similar shop and buy the parts for.  They just had a special OS.  

Now, again they are special devices that will have some limitations compared to the x86 based open platform most of us use.  Their ARM SOC's will have some advantages too.  Historically PC users were far less charitable about the limitations of Macs back in the day.  At the same time Mac users would never shut up about how great their computers were.  

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On 2/7/2023 at 2:09 PM, BuckGup said:

So what's the point in watching LTT if you have to go to another channel to verify it's factual 🤣

I think Steve would get really bored if all he did was recap LTT's videos, just sayin...

"Don't fall down the hole!" ~James, 2022

 

"If you have a monitor, look at that monitor with your eyeballs." ~ Jake, 2022

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8 hours ago, Sarra said:

I think Steve would get really bored if all he did was recap LTT's videos, just sayin...

GN/Steve has missed the ball countless of times on things electronics manufacturing and circuit design related as well.

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3 hours ago, ImorallySourcedElectrons said:

GN/Steve has missed the ball countless of times on things electronics manufacturing and circuit design related as well.

I think Electroboom would get really bored if all he did was recap GN's videos, just sayin...

"Don't fall down the hole!" ~James, 2022

 

"If you have a monitor, look at that monitor with your eyeballs." ~ Jake, 2022

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