No more sideloading for you || Android 14 could prevent users from sideloading outdated apps ||

[darknessblade]

Summary

 Google blocks Users from easily sideloading apps trough a APK file.

 

Quotes

Quote

Google is reportedly working on a new change set to go live with Android 14 that will prevent users from installing outdated apps on their devices. The company already enforces minimum API level requirements for apps on the Play Store, preventing developers from publishing apps that target older Android releases. However, this restriction doesn't prevent users from sideloading outdated apps.

Google aims to remedy that with Android 14, and a newly posted code change (via 9to5Google) suggests that the company will enforce stricter API requirements with the upcoming release. Once the change goes into effect, users will no longer be able to sideload APK files for apps that don't meet a specified API level. It will also prevent third-party app stores from installing apps that don't meet the new guidelines.

 

My thoughts

Why the hell is Google trying to look like apple, forcing users to keep using the google appstore, and not sideload their favorite apps on the latest android version.

 

Nothing good will come from this except a lot of hatred from the community that is behind Android itself. since android at its core is a open source system.

Not forgetting this will go against the DSA and DMA regulations. as google is purposely trying to further lock down the system.

 

 

Sources

https://www.xda-developers.com/android-14-block-outdated-apps/

[Gokul_P]

34 minutes ago, darknessblade said:

Summary

 Google blocks Users from easily sideloading apps trough a APK file.

 

Quotes

 

My thoughts

Why the hell is Google trying to look like apple, forcing users to keep using the google appstore, and not sideload their favorite apps on the latest android version.

 

Nothing good will come from this except a lot of hatred from the community that is behind Android itself. since android at its core is a open source system.

Not forgetting this will go against the DSA and DMA regulations. as google is purposely trying to further lock down the system.

 

 

Sources

https://www.xda-developers.com/android-14-block-outdated-apps/

Google will give the toggle to manufactures so im assuming 3rd party roms are not affected by this. and how the aggressive the feature is also controlled by OEMs. But most OEMs still allow unlocking bootloader so maybe some OEMS don't use it. and it only effects apps that isnt updated in the last decade 

[jaslion]

Well good thing my phone is too old :`D

 

But like for real this is just a lawsuit waiting to happen in some way shape or form

[porina]

I'm going to guess Google want to avoid having to support much older API levels. They don't want to end up with a Windows situation where it is hard to move forward when there is so much old stuff around. Assuming such functionality is removed from ongoing Android versions, the old apks wont work even if you can get them on there. The correct solution is for apps to remain updated.

[podkall]

In theory this isn't much of a problem, in my oppinion,

 

as those people who might use older APK files, probably own a device that support it, and shouldn't really need to buy newer phone most of them...

 

or just keep the old device.

 

It's also probably because you can download APK file and install the app, for free, instead of buying it...

[aDoomGuy]

Meh.. I have no need for apps that don't get maintained.

[porina]

Looking at the source link, the claim there is the reason is security, as malware targets older APIs which can bypass modern protections. They're initially targeting ancient versions of android. It doesn't say what the threshold is, but the article mentions eventually moving to Android 6 Marshmallow. For time context, that version was released in 2015.

 

Just how big a loss is not being able to sideload an app that hasn't been updated in 7+ years? This is going to be extremely niche. The title of this thread as it stands is a bit misleading. The main goal is not blocking sideloading, it is blocking ancient apps.

[Gokul_P]

4 minutes ago, porina said:

Just how big a loss is not being able to sideload an app that hasn't been updated in 7+ years? This is going to be extremely niche. The title of this thread as it stands is a bit misleading. The main goal is not blocking sideloading, it is blocking ancient apps.

i think a installing a app that isn't updated in nearly a decade is dumb and blocking that only effects like 0.0000001% of android users that have some app that isn't updated for that long like businesses still stuck with XP and 2000 and the ones need that badly show they are fine stuck with a old os. It is obviously misleading 

[Levent]

Most people that use apps that are that old are pirating them. If the app you were using is removed from google play store due to API level restrictions (if its even a thing) you shouldnt use it anyways, however google should do their due diligence and let users know about these types of things instead of just removing an app from google play store one night and letting it linger in users devices.

 

Edit: I should also add that this will the start of the troubles for third party app-"stores" like f-droid when google decides to pursue higher level of restrictions.

[Fasterthannothing]

Not sure what all the rage is about. If an app is that old you shouldn't be installing it anyway because it's not going to work

[jaslion]

33 minutes ago, porina said:

For time context, that version was released in 2015.

Damn I feel older now.

 

Still have a stock one plus used as a chromecast caster

[Holmes108]

Although in general, I feel I should be able to install what I want on my device, it really just depends on exactly how strict this new system is. I tried to install Paint.net on my moms computer the other day, and it said her build of Windows 10 was too old. So it can even happen on PC. It's not necessarily the end of the world though.

[Kisai]

53 minutes ago, porina said:

 

 

Just how big a loss is not being able to sideload an app that hasn't been updated in 7+ years? This is going to be extremely niche. The title of this thread as it stands is a bit misleading. The main goal is not blocking sideloading, it is blocking ancient apps.

Games. Game developers, particularly on Android, but iOS don't update just to work on newer versions of the OS. But the uproar will be worse on Android simply because developers on Android find it difficult enough to develop ANYTHING for Android in the first place, when on iOS, the biggest obstacle is Apple's approval (who won't approve apps for some very arbitrary or stupid reasons,) not the OS. 

 

So now throw in "we're ripping out old API's cause they're insecure" and you will have applications and even some games that access the camera (eg Unity) just go "NOPE." 

 

I don't imagine there will be too many applications that are sideloaded that "don't work" unless the app uses API's that get ripped out of the OS, which might itself only be things like accessing the Camera, Microphone and GPS.

[Sauron]

1 hour ago, darknessblade said:

Why the hell is Google trying to look like apple, forcing users to keep using the google appstore, and not sideload their favorite apps on the latest android version.

That's not what this is though. You can install the same exact APK through Google Play or sideloading, you just can't sideload apks that would not be supported by the play store. I think it's dumb because there's absolutely no reason for this and I imagine someone out there really needs to sideload that one discontinued app, but it's nowhere near what Apple has been doing where you just can't sideload anything.

1 hour ago, darknessblade said:

Nothing good will come from this except a lot of hatred from the community that is behind Android itself. since android at its core is a open source system.

Parts of android is open source but the vast majority of the development effort comes directly from Google.

[Vishera]

51 minutes ago, porina said:

Assuming such functionality is removed from ongoing Android versions, the old apks wont work even if you can get them on there. The correct solution is for apps to remain updated.

There are apps that have not been updated for ages,

That also includes paid apps.

 

Google's plans are draconian, i am highly depended on side loading so going forward i will install custom ROMs that allow side loading on newer phones.

Also this would mean that newer apps won't work on older phones i presume.

[OhioYJ]

I'll go ahead and chime in as someone who sideoads apps. I actually sideload multiple apps, some that are open source, some that are no longer supported, etc. None of which are pirated, or paid apps. So as mentioned above their are legitimate use cases for sideloading apps. Even my "outdated" apps work fine in Android 13 (Lineage 20). 

[Doobeedoo]

Google is being based. 

I get it they don't want to drag old legacy support though. Will there be some emulation container like on Windows heh.

Either way, Google, maybe you know you being so called Android owner, provide more Android version software support for your phones already you slackera. Samsung already does for a while, 1+ will too and some other. Google should 1 up them and offer 5y ver upgrqdes. 

I never said that less versions makes a phone a brick but these days, it's sad to see and I refuse to support that and buy their phone until that changes, shame because they are nice.

More support would deffinitely help huge ver fragmentation, it's so bad. 

[wanderingfool2]

38 minutes ago, Sauron said:

I think it's dumb because there's absolutely no reason for this and I imagine someone out there really needs to sideload that one discontinued app, but it's nowhere near what Apple has been doing where you just can't sideload anything.

Well I mean security concerns are a valid point if the older API's are the ones that get targeted.  It also allows them to cut API support at the level that they choose, so that that code doesn't need to be maintained/updated.  If it manages to simplify the code base as well, you might get better performance as well (or just in general better security).  It's sometimes about getting rid of the tech debt.

 

 

[Kid.Lazer]

How does an end user know their old APKs will no longer work (and what APIs it's using) before they update Android, and it is suddenly no longer usable?

 

I need to make the switch to another mail client at some point (trust me, I know), but I (along with many other unhappy users) am currently using K9mail v5.600, which was released way back in 2018. Is my pixel going to update someday, and it just disappears forever, leaving me scrambling to setup a new mail client?

[Commodus]

2 hours ago, darknessblade said:

Summary

 Google blocks Users from easily sideloading apps trough a APK file.

 

Quotes

 

My thoughts

Why the hell is Google trying to look like apple, forcing users to keep using the google appstore, and not sideload their favorite apps on the latest android version.

 

Nothing good will come from this except a lot of hatred from the community that is behind Android itself. since android at its core is a open source system.

Not forgetting this will go against the DSA and DMA regulations. as google is purposely trying to further lock down the system.

 

 

Sources

https://www.xda-developers.com/android-14-block-outdated-apps/

Like others have said, you're overstating the case here. You'll still be allowed to sideload apps; you just wouldn't get to sideload some eight-year-old app just because.

 

As it stands, people forget that Google isn't a charity doing things out of the goodness of its heart. It's a business using open source as a strategic tool. Antitrust concerns are one thing, but it doesn't owe you completely unfettered access. And it's amusing/disappointing that people will rail against Apple as some unfathomable evil while still putting Google on a pedestal; Google happily locks down things when it makes business sense.

[wanderingfool2]

15 minutes ago, Kid.Lazer said:

How does an end user know their old APKs will no longer work (and what APIs it's using) before they update Android, and it is suddenly no longer usable?

 

I need to make the switch to another mail client at some point (trust me, I know), but I (along with many other unhappy users) am currently using K9mail v5.600, which was released way back in 2018. Is my pixel going to update someday, and it just disappears forever, leaving me scrambling to setup a new mail client?

Well hopefully, not sure if they would, they would pop up with a warning prior to doing the update that xyz apps would no longer be supported...but not sure if they are.

 

In the case of the K9mail thing, yea looks like someday it would no longer be supported.  With that said, the developer could set the target to Android 6 (and with a bit of refactoring could likely get something running, having done it once before for apps I wrote, it took myself about a half a day to fix up everything that used old API calls).  The question is, should apps be supported forever and at what stage to drop API support.  I used to target the older devices because it simply gave me a larger audience.

 

1 hour ago, porina said:

Just how big a loss is not being able to sideload an app that hasn't been updated in 7+ years? This is going to be extremely niche. The title of this thread as it stands is a bit misleading. The main goal is not blocking sideloading, it is blocking ancient apps.

2 hours ago, aDoomGuy said:

Meh.. I have no need for apps that don't get maintained.

So here is an issue, it's not 7+ years...or even ones that don't get maintained.

 

There is, admittedly, a cost of refactoring code to work with the current API.  When you develop an Android app as well you don't usually set the minimum requirement to the most current API; unless you want to utilize the a feature in it that only exists in the current API and the app can't work without that specific feature...otherwise you target the older version and still add the new feature in (but wall it off to only devices that support it).

 

So generally you choose what you want, using the minimum API you can get away with to support the app (in order to hit more audience) or choosing a slightly higher one (to utilize some of the newer API without using the old one).

https://gs.statcounter.com/android-version-market-share

 

Targeting 4.0 to 6.0 Android you would get an extra 1.8% (so likely not really too important), but if you were to target 8.1 and higher you would be missing roughly 8% of the market (released 6 years ago). Targeting Android 9 (5 year old OS), you get about 13% missed and Android 10 (4 year old) you miss about 22%.

 

So I don't think it's necessarily straightforward to just look at the year it was released in, as as of right now I would likely build Apps targeting Android 8.1/9 as minimum SDK level...and depending on the App I might target 6.0.  If they lets say keep creeping it by an year each time, that would mean I would have to update the App yearly (even if it was working fine without issues)

[darknessblade]

33 minutes ago, Commodus said:

Like others have said, you're overstating the case here. You'll still be allowed to sideload apps; you just wouldn't get to sideload some eight-year-old app just because.

 

As it stands, people forget that Google isn't a charity doing things out of the goodness of its heart. It's a business using open source as a strategic tool. Antitrust concerns are one thing, but it doesn't owe you completely unfettered access. And it's amusing/disappointing that people will rail against Apple as some unfathomable evil while still putting Google on a pedestal; Google happily locks down things when it makes business sense.

The way I look at it is if it is not stopped right now, Google will further lock down android, making Sideloading a thing of the past.

That is why it needs to be stopped before they have even the chance to implement it.

 

Even if they are a ""Business"" they are using a OPEN SOURCE system, and further locking it down is not really that "open source" if you ask me.

 

Also your statement regarding owing  completely unfettered access. Is completely false.

 

IT IS MY DEVICE AND I WANT TO DO WITH IT, WHAT I WANT TO DO.

It is not up to some company to tell me what I cannot do with MY DEVICE, that I PAID FOR with MY MONEY.

 

If they handed me the device 100% free of charge it would have been a different story. But since I purchased the device it is 100% my property, and they CANNOT tell me what I CAN and CANNOT do with MY DEVICE.

 

 

I wouldn't have expected anything else from people who had never known any PROPER consumer protection in their own country.

 

Unlike in the USA and Canada Companies cannot Bribe Lobby against consumer protection regulations in the EU.

Just look at the right to repair act in New-York that recently got botched trough Bribing lobbying efforts by big tech.

_____________________

It still baffles me that soo many people think companies can do whatever they want with something they created. without anything or anyone to stop them.

 

Consumer protection regulations exist for a reason.

If they did not exist, companies would just say ""Warranty void when opening the box it is packaged in"" Just like those Illegal warranty void if removed stickers many PC manufacturers used in the old days.

https://www.ifixit.com/News/11748/warranty-stickers-are-illegal#:~:text=Most consumers don't know,language of your warranty says.

 

Making ANY defect no matter what, a YOU problem. even if that defect is a DOA out of the box. [broken screen], when you have opened right in front of the Seller's/company's employee their eyes. they will deny any rights you as a consumer would have had with proper consumer protection.

 

[wanderingfool2]

5 minutes ago, darknessblade said:

IT IS MY DEVICE AND I WANT TO DO WITH IT, WHAT I WANT TO DO.

It is not up to some company to tell me what I cannot do with MY DEVICE, that I PAID FOR with MY MONEY.

 

If they handed me the device 100% free of charge it would have been a different story. But since I purchased the device it is 100% my property, and they CANNOT tell me what I CAN and CANNOT do with MY DEVICE.

Then don't update to Android 14, simple as that.  There are justifiable reasons behind not supporting, sometimes having old API's lingering around can come back to bite you.

 

Just image the world if strcpy in c was deprecated and no longer supported...it would break a lot of apps, but those that used strcpy_s would be a lot safer from buffer overflows.  It's always a weighing of the impact vs other benefits.

[Lightwreather]

20 minutes ago, darknessblade said:

Even if they are a ""Business"" they are using a OPEN SOURCE system, and further locking it down is not really that "open source" if you ask me.

I don't think you understand what open-source is then, this kind of deprecation of older APIs, and instruction sets are done quite regularly (Further Reading: Linux).

[tikker]

1 hour ago, darknessblade said:

Even if they are a ""Business"" they are using a OPEN SOURCE system, and further locking it down is not really that "open source" if you ask me.

Open sources simply means the source code is open to see and/or reuse. It doesn't mean they have to support whatever you want or demand from them in their product.

1 hour ago, darknessblade said:

IT IS MY DEVICE AND I WANT TO DO WITH IT, WHAT I WANT TO DO.

It is not up to some company to tell me what I cannot do with MY DEVICE, that I PAID FOR with MY MONEY.

 

If they handed me the device 100% free of charge it would have been a different story. But since I purchased the device it is 100% my property, and they CANNOT tell me what I CAN and CANNOT do with MY DEVICE.

What about the other side then? They develop Android (at least mostly, from what I know), it's their product. Doesn't that mean that they can do whatever they want with it, because it is their property? Why can you tell them what to do with their software, but they can't decide what to do with their software?