This GPU is WIRELESS?!

[Emily Young]

Why use HDMI and DisplayPort when you can go WIRELESS? This GPU technology existed over 10 years ago, but no one has used it since. Is it a hidden gem, or is there a reason it died on the vine?

 

 

[LinusFanNumber 14.8M]

5 minutes ago, GabenJr said:

Why use HDMI and DisplayPort when you can go WIRELESS? This GPU technology existed over 10 years ago, but no one has used it since. Is it a hidden gem, or is there a reason it died on the vine?

 

 

Epic gamer movement

[LinusFanNumber 14.8M]

18 minutes ago, GabenJr said:

Why use HDMI and DisplayPort when you can go WIRELESS? This GPU technology existed over 10 years ago, but no one has used it since. Is it a hidden gem, or is there a reason it died on the vine?

 

 

For some reason when Linus Shakes the GPU I fill the shaking on my table.

[parkerlreed]

LG had a really good implementation of this from 2010. It was a small unit that you velcroed to the back of the TV and then a separate set-top box that was basically a whole other TV over a wireless link. Gave you a boatload of extra inputs. Still use it to this day. Actually does 1080p with no visible artifacts. 

 

 

[MKGA]

Actually, there was second wireless gpu on the market, but a few years before this gtx460.
ASUS EN6600GT/WTD/128M
Source : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1RW-3o7P_U&t=172s&ab_channel=RAVK
(Yeah I know that it's in Polish. Although I can help translating it if needed.) :]

[GodAtum]

That poor guy from Milwaukee. I wonder if he's still alive?

[Nystemy]

The reason for 5 antennas is likely not to run 5 "streams".

 

Radio transmission in free air don't care about how many antennas one has. If a device is sending RF encoded data, they occupy some portion of the spectrum. Directional antennas can improve things since only the stuff that is along the path will be "disturbed".
 

Secondly, one can send an arbitrary amount of channels over a single antenna _{(combining RF transmissions isn't new)}, so long as the antenna is able to radiate the bandwidth asked for. Something it obviously would, since else it just wouldn't work.

 

However, the 5GHz ISM band provides 150 MHz worth of bandwidth, so to get 3 Gb/s, we only need 1024 QAM modulation. A hard task to ask for back then, and even today due to noise. So they likely include a hefty amount of compression to get that number. _{(A similar lie that LTO tape drives have done for decades in regards to their own capacity.)}

 

The 6 GHz ISM band's 500 MHz bandwidth would make the task easier, but still not trivial.

 

However, a reason for multiple antennas could be beam steering. Ie, making the many omnidirectional antennas into a directional one.
 

Could though be the good old "it is just for looks" type of antennas. Where only 1 is actually used, while the others are just dummy ones. Since more antennas looks fancier than fewer antennas. And other wireless products have played that card before. _{(SMA connectors are literally a dime a dozen, and the antennas are quite cheap too, so it wouldn't be all that expensive, especially if it instills a sense of quality.)}

I myself would have dragged out my spectrum analyzer to check what is actually going on. _{(even if mine only goes to 2.7 GHz, but a prescaler solves that minor issue.)}

[wONKEyeYEs]

SignalRGB is a hot mess.

 

 

[ImorallySourcedElectrons]

31 minutes ago, Nystemy said:

The reason for 5 antennas is likely not to run 5 "streams".

 

Radio transmission in free air don't care about how many antennas one has. If a device is sending RF encoded data, they occupy some portion of the spectrum. Directional antennas can improve things since only the stuff that is along the path will be "disturbed".
 

Secondly, one can send an arbitrary amount of channels over a single antenna _{(combining RF transmissions isn't new)}, so long as the antenna is able to radiate the bandwidth asked for. Something it obviously would, since else it just wouldn't work.

 

However, the 5GHz ISM band provides 150 MHz worth of bandwidth, so to get 3 Gb/s, we only need 1024 QAM modulation. A hard task to ask for back then, and even today due to noise. So they likely include a hefty amount of compression to get that number. _{(A similar lie that LTO tape drives have done for decades in regards to their own capacity.)}

 

The 6 GHz ISM band's 500 MHz bandwidth would make the task easier, but still not trivial.

 

However, a reason for multiple antennas could be beam steering. Ie, making the many omnidirectional antennas into a directional one.
 

Could though be the good old "it is just for looks" type of antennas. Where only 1 is actually used, while the others are just dummy ones. Since more antennas looks fancier than fewer antennas. And other wireless products have played that card before. _{(SMA connectors are literally a dime a dozen, and the antennas are quite cheap too, so it wouldn't be all that expensive, especially if it instills a sense of quality.)}

I myself would have dragged out my spectrum analyzer to check what is actually going on. _{(even if mine only goes to 2.7 GHz, but a prescaler solves that minor issue.)}

Sometimes these things just use passive beam shaping with monopoles, wouldn't be the first one I've seen that does it  

 

But this might also be interesting (from the wikipedia WHDI entry): https://www.mathworks.com/company/newsletters/articles/developing-wireless-high-definition-video-modems-for-consumer-electronics-devices.html?issue=nn2011

[Spotty]

46 minutes ago, wONKEyeYEs said:

SignalRGB is a hot mess.

If you have issue with any of the sponsor spots in videos it's better to post in the LMG sponsor complaints thread so the right people can see it.

 

[Hadis]

I'm 100% sure that this card has already been covered by ltt before.

I believe it was in a compilation of weird GPUs or something like that, does anyone else remember?
It's been over 5 years for sure!

 

Edit: I just checked the comments and at least a couple more people remember this too!
I tried to find it on their channel but wasn't able to find it though..

[papajo]

2 hours ago, GabenJr said:

 

 

 

I bet that the "jitter" witnessed at 17:30 of the video is just because its a source game and you are in an elevator lol  

Also I think for better results the receiver device needs to be oriented towards the antennas and the antennas need to have a 90 degree phase difference with each other (like it is almost certain that they shouldnt all point towards the same direction this is basically the same as having only 1 antenna) 

+ maybe some of the issues could have been remedied if you were using the actual drivers of this GPU  (you have the CD ROM, but I am sure if you put someone to search on archive.com or other back up nostalgia driver/software websites you may find something more recent ) 

Last but not least CSGO released on about the same time as the 400 series GPUs but it since has been updated and gotten heavier vanilla csgo from a decade ago doesnt look the same as nowadays csgo... 

With that I mean that they must have some sort of encoding going on which uses at least partially more resources so if you are going to put the GPU on its knees that encoding is going to suck and it wouldnt have been the GPUs fault cause you use it on a game that this GPU was not meant to play flawlessly 

 

[JEskandari]

they advertise the card for 100m and through the wall and you guys had to put the receiver just 50cm from the GPU ?

come on at least you could put one in another room and then, we could see how bad the implementation of the idea was

[djenson]

In fairness to it

-You're using an open testbench, which will be throwing off some EMI
-Your studio is likely plastered in 5Ghz WiFi, something that would not be the case in 2011 and could be an issue if it is using 5x 40mhz bands as you describe 
-Did not fully investigate interlacing issue or see if the behaviour was there in 1280x720

[kasper93]

I like presentations of niche products that not much people remembers now, and I got disappointed.

 

All I got was in standard LTT fashion fake/forced reactions and little to none care about the actual product. This GPU does support 1080p as advertised, look at this review https://pcper.com/2011/01/galaxy-geforce-gtx-460-1gb-whdi-edition-wireless-hdmi-streaming/3/ just need to select proper resolution.

 

Evaluating product with wrong resolution set, on some bottom of the barrel monitor which itself probably has dozens of ms of latency. Not validating HDCP, not trying to use it as an actual product. And to be honest for 1080p HTPC setup even today it sounds like nice thing. (yeah, I know 4k is a thing).

I guess making nice product overview is not as "fun" as farming content by shitting on a product... while most issues are caused by users.

 

[Radium_Angel]

58 minutes ago, kasper93 said:

All I got was in standard LTT fashion fake/forced reactions and little to none care about the actual product.

I was going to say "You're new here aren't you?" but then I see that you are actually "new here"

This is SOP for LTT videos and one (of many) reasons I rarely, if ever, watch them. This very cool and rare video card deserved a better video.

[dogwitch]

still cool tech to see. that never came to market. consumer one anyhow

[Bitter]

Isn't this similar to Intel's WiDi?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WiDi

[papajo]

3 hours ago, JEskandari said:

you could put one in another room and then

 

2 hours ago, djenson said:

Your studio is likely plastered in 5Ghz WiFi, something that would not be the case in 2011

Fair points too

56 minutes ago, dogwitch said:

still cool tech to see. that never came to market. consumer one anyhow

I think it did I don't have a source other than I was alive and a tech guy/gamer back when 60 series cards from nvidia used to be priced around 150-200 and like the flagship 400-500 and tech journalist were b1tching about the prices being high instead of being apologetic about "WHY" the prices are high like they are now...
So back in the years of reasonable and honorable quid pro quo between manufacturers and customers. 

Now its like Jensen and the other fat cats are too much into cocaine and try to steal every last penny from the gullible children in order to maintain their 1 kilo per week cocaine addiction... 

[8tg]

@GabenJrserious inquiry here, when you guys are done with it and if it wasn’t a loaner, if you want to sell this card just PM me a number, I’m a gpu collector and I’ve been looking for a WHDI for years

 

As far as weird gpu stuff goes, I’d love to see more on things like this. The WHDI is a good semi modern example of a unique feature being implemented to test the waters of sorts. It’s basically what colorful does with their Kudan cards, pic related:

Passively cooled gtx 680 with Heatsink sli

This I don’t think ever hit mass market but there’s a few examples in colorfuls hands still.

Stuff like this is far less common these days, where some of the only oddball feature examples are either really minor cosmetic things, or end-all be-all performance targets like the Galax HOF cards. Very rarely how do we get to see unique ideas.

 

 

 

[JEskandari]

7 hours ago, Bitter said:

Isn't this similar to Intel's WiDi?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WiDi

i once tested widi , was not impressed , the latency killed it for me, the distance was about 10m and there was two wall involved , in fairness , unlike north America we wont use wood in houses , weapon of choice in building house in my country is brick , cement and concrete and the walls tend to be thicker and denser than there , but even in the same room it was not something i could tolerate

[ImorallySourcedElectrons]

56 minutes ago, JEskandari said:

i once tested widi , was not impressed , the latency killed it for me, the distance was about 10m and there was two wall involved , in fairness , unlike north America we wont use wood in houses , weapon of choice in building house in my country is brick , cement and concrete and the walls tend to be thicker and denser than there , but even in the same room it was not something i could tolerate

I think it's pretty much only useful for connecting to projectors.

 

And thinking about it, I also suspect this GPU was more of a product meant for commercial installations where wires don't necessarily work. Like connecting to a TV in the building lobby to display fancy adverts. They probably had already designed it, realised there might be a market for prosumers, threw on some fancy game-style labelling and sold it to see how much demand there was. That'd explain both the price point and why they didn't seem to be all that bothered marketing it.

[kasper93]

9 hours ago, Radium_Angel said:

I was going to say "You're new here aren't you?" but then I see that you are actually "new here"

This is SOP for LTT videos and one (of many) reasons I rarely, if ever, watch them. This very cool and rare video card deserved a better video.

I'm well aware, they are often pushing cheap entertainment over quality too far. But then again I don't care most of the time, as you noticed I don't ever post here, but this time I just got triggered. I don't expect GN style, dozen graphs video, but at least set the resolution right and evaluate the product fairly. Some basic latency measurement would be a bonus, but I wouldn't expect that from LTT.

 

Then again, people are watching this content and majority is happy with it, so I just need to chill and ignore it.

 

(even Wikipedia confirms that whdi is uncompressed link, so basically half of the video is wrong and misleading)

[darknessblade]

Darn it, The meme's would have been amazing if babyface linus returned for a product out of that same era

[papajo]

7 hours ago, JEskandari said:

i once tested widi , was not impressed , the latency killed it for me, the distance was about 10m and there was two wall involved , in fairness , unlike north America we wont use wood in houses , weapon of choice in building house in my country is brick , cement and concrete and the walls tend to be thicker and denser than there , but even in the same room it was not something i could tolerate

yea lol I wonder why americans (and Canadians apparently judging from linu's house improvement videos) build dollhouses/trree houses instead of real buildings   

especially considering their salaries AND the pricing for building a house. 

If I can run through walls wearing a us football suit and helmet I dont consider it a real house lol