Elon Musk starts banning critical journalists (Washington Post, NY Times, CNN) from Twitter

[danieltien]

Summary

Twitter suspended the accounts of several journalists who have been covering billionaire Elon Musk, who acquired the social network in October, and that of upstart rival service Mastodon.

Late Thursday, accounts for reporters from publications including the Washington Post, the New York Times, Mashable, CNN and Substack were listed as blocked and their tweets were no longer visible, with the company’s standard notice saying it “suspends accounts that violate the Twitter rules.”

Twitter also suspended the feed of social-media site Mastodon, which earlier had posted a link on its Twitter page to an account on its own site that uses publicly available flight data to track Musk’s private jet. On Wednesday, Twitter had suspended multiple accounts that followed private jet locations, including Musk’s.

 

Quotes

Quote

Rep. Lori Trahan (D-Mass) wrote on Twitter Thursday night that her staff had met that same day with Twitter officials. “They told us that they’re not going to retaliate against independent journalists or researchers who publish criticisms of the platform. Less than 12 hours later, multiple technology reporters have been suspended. What’s the deal, Elon Musk?”

 

My thoughts

So much for "free speech absolutism". Elon is happy to post info that doxes former employees and put them in danger and then say "oops", but people who report on people who post publicly available data on flights? (Wacko who approached his kid's car was in a car not near an airport), that's a no go.

 

Sources

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/15/technology/twitter-suspends-journalist-accounts-elon-musk.html

https://www.theverge.com/2022/12/15/23512004/elon-musk-starts-banning-critical-journalists-from-twitter

https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2022/12/15/twitter-journalists-suspended-musk/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-12-16/twitter-suspends-accounts-of-mastodon-journalists-covering-musk?srnd=premium

[Kisai]

Gee Elon, whatever happened to free-speech absolution?

 

 

Honestly, the pettiness just doesn't surprise me. Elon is a big hypocrite.

 

[danieltien]

Every time I think my opinion of him can't sink lower, he does yet another thing to show his true colors. I'm sickened that I ever was a fan of his, and nauseated that our country's space program depends on his whims.

[seanondemand]

https://mastodon.social/@elonjet

[Majinhoju]

Are people still surprised anymore? Were all seeing what petulant man child really he really is.

 

For the record, I don't care how he wants to run Twitter. He can rule it with an iron fist and ban who he wants. The market will eventually show Twitter the door.

[wanderingfool2]

3 hours ago, Kisai said:

Gee Elon, whatever happened to free-speech absolution?

 

 

Honestly, the pettiness just doesn't surprise me. Elon is a big hypocrite.

 

There really are varying degrees of free speech though.

 

You may say pettiness, but given what I have seen with the ElonJet thing (even prior to Twitter purchase), I think the guy running it is creating actual security issues.  Like there is a literal distinction between allowing free speech and allowing speech that actively endangers lives by tracking a location of a person.

 

For the record, Musk's child was in a vehicle that got stopped by a stalker (prior to that as well, when Musk appeared at airports people were using the ElonJet to figure out where he was).  My guess is if he delayed the feed by 30 minutes - 1 hour Sweeney wouldn't have been banned.

 

I'll just wait and see though, because there's a bunch of knee-jerk reactions (and I'm willing to be an out of control bot that did some of the banning).  I don't agree with banning journalists, but at this time though we don't necessarily know why they were ban (and if they would be restored).  I do agree though, the twitter account that posts locations of people's whereabouts in real time should be shutdown.

 

As a note as well, what I would like to see is the actual last tweet prior to a suspension by each journalist.  If the tweets that they are showing is correct, then I don't agree with the ban...but if they were referencing to the source where you can find elonjet still (and the fact that a guy literally jumped on the hood of the car), I can understand why.  [For a bigger note, he's referenced that ElonJet could return if he delays the feed]

 

I personally think what Sweeney has done is a bit vial, where he tried to extort money initially to get the tracking removed.

 

I prefer someone like Musk over the former trust and safety  head who literally tweeted "ACTUAL NAZIS IN THE WHITE HOUSE".  That was the line the guy used referring to the government party at the time.  So I'd prefer a public figure who we know at least is calling the shots instead of the one who runs things behind the scenes.

 

  

3 hours ago, danieltien said:

Every time I think my opinion of him can't sink lower, he does yet another thing to show his true colors. I'm sickened that I ever was a fan of his, and nauseated that our country's space program depends on his whims.

Here's a question though, if, and it's an if, the reports did share information regarding where to view Elon's jets location, and if it is true that it was used to follow his kid, where the vehicle was stopped and a guy jumps on the hood.  Would you not consider it an issue with journalists sharing the information on how to do the same?

 

Being the devils advocate.

 

The tl;dr, if it was showing current locations and if it his kids were literally accidentally targeted I 100% agree with the bans if the journalists were also linking where to find the information.

[HenrySalayne]

15 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

There really are varying degrees of free speech though.

You may say pettiness, but given what I have seen with the ElonJet thing (even prior to Twitter purchase), I think the guy running it is creating actual security issues.  Like there is a literal distinction between allowing free speech and allowing speech that actively endangers lives by tracking a location of a person.

For the record, Musk's child was in a vehicle that got stopped by a stalker (prior to that as well, when Musk appeared at airports people were using the ElonJet to figure out where he was).  My guess is if he delayed the feed by 30 minutes - 1 hour Sweeney wouldn't have been banned.

Maybe you should read a thing or two about this.

• No person was tracked.
• ADS-B is a free broadcast anyone can receive. (Scott can explain this better)
• There are hundreds of websites sharing ADS-B data.
• There were dozens additional accounts suspended from the same person; his personal account and accounts tracking scientific aircraft.

 

[wanderingfool2]

6 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

Maybe you should read a thing or two about this.

• No person was tracked.
• ADS-B is a free broadcast anyone can receive. (Scott can explain this better)
• There are hundreds of websites sharing ADS-B data.
• There were dozens additional accounts suspended from the same person; his personal account and accounts tracking scientific aircraft.

 

It doesn't matter whether or not it came from public data.  Linus' address is a matter of public record, it would be creepy to look it up and I would consider it doxxing if people put it online where it was easier to find (like on a this forum)

 

If you grab data and utilize it in a way that gives access to millions of people who otherwise wouldn't even begin to know how to, then yea I consider that tracking.  Again, there is a difference in my view of broadcasting all data, vs formatting it and letting anyone see it (as it would be out of most people's capabilities to utilize the ADS-B data)

 

Especially if it's what lead to the incident where Musk's kid came in contact with a stalker.

 

Oh and here's a hint as well, it was a serious enough thing that Canada had a temporary order to prevent the publishing of the tracking of the PM's plane information.

[Needfuldoer]

1 hour ago, wanderingfool2 said:

You may say pettiness, but given what I have seen with the ElonJet thing (even prior to Twitter purchase), I think the guy running it is creating actual security issues. 

Fair enough, but I think we're getting distracted from the bigger story:

 

4 hours ago, danieltien said:

Late Thursday, accounts for reporters from publications including the Washington Post, the New York Times, Mashable, CNN and Substack were listed as blocked and their tweets were no longer visible, with the company’s standard notice saying it “suspends accounts that violate the Twitter rules.”

[HenrySalayne]

14 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

If you grab data and utilize it in a way that gives access to millions of people who otherwise wouldn't even begin to know how to, then yea I consider that tracking.  Again, there is a difference in my view of broadcasting all data, vs formatting it and letting anyone see it (as it would be out of most people's capabilities to utilize the ADS-B data)  

"Flight radars" are around since the mid 2000s. The Twitter account of FlightRadar24 is still going strong, openly advertising the tracking of hundreds of aircraft in REAL TIME!

This was a petty move from Elon, you know it, I know it and maybe we can stop making up excuses.

 

25 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

Especially if it's what lead to the incident where Musk's kid came in contact with a stalker.

Which you have proven? Ah, no, it was a pseudo fact you created out of thin air two posts ago to support your argument. Maybe we can stop doing this?

Your point is already homoeopathically thin; watering it down further with this kind of BS is completely pointless.

[wanderingfool2]

1 hour ago, Needfuldoer said:

Fair enough, but I think we're getting distracted from the bigger story

Except they buried the lead

 

Quote

In a tweet, Mr. Musk said Twitter’s rules on “doxxing” — which refers to the sharing of someone’s personal documents, including information such as their address — “apply to ‘journalists’ as well as everyone else.” He did not elaborate.

It's not about being distracted from the story...it's that we don't know what the story is yet.  It's like what I said, I don't think banning journalists is good (although it was only a 7 day suspension), and it's all don under the guise doxxing.  If the journalists were posting in regards to the new ElonJet account on Mastodon then I can understand how they could get suspended.  The issue becomes as well, we can see what the final tweets were (like if they tried posting it and got suspended immediately then no one but the author would know); and then they wouldn't really want to admit it as to them it would mean potentially less press for them (as controversy of being suspended without cause is a lot better than, suspended for sharing information that was deemed doxxing)

 

That's why I'm saying it's important to what tweets were done and whether or not they were linking to where they could find that information.

 

  

51 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

"Flight radars" are around since the mid 2000s. The Twitter account of FlightRadar24 is still going strong, openly advertising the tracking of hundreds of aircraft in REAL TIME!

This was a petty move from Elon, you know it, I know it and maybe we can stop making up excuses.

Again, there's a big difference between a "here's the flights generally, if you know someones plane info put it here to track it" than "here's xyz's flight, they are now moving, and XYZ will be going to this location" and sending it out as a notification effectively by doing it on Twitter.

 

  

51 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

Which you have proven? Ah, no, it was a pseudo fact you created out of thin air two posts ago to support your argument. Maybe we can stop doing this?

Or maybe you can try taking 2 seconds to try verifying if what I am saying might be true instead of assuming I made it up.

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/9351055/elon-musk-jet-tracking-account-suspended-twitter/

 

So yea, so much for my "pseudo fact", lets just ignore that it was also reported on, and that I was stating if it was what lead to the stalker being able to do that.  It wasn't made up to support my argument, it's literally one of the justifications that news agencies thought was the reasoning for the ban.

 

To put further to bed the whole "public data".  He utilized ADS-B, and cross-referenced the movements from what is supposed to be an anonymized FAA flight plan to essentially deanonymize it and know when and where it will land.  So it very much is tracking someone, yes it's "public" information, but it requires a lot more industry specific knowledge to track on that level.  So yes I very much consider it tracking someone to the point of doxxing if you post information about where they are going to land in real time.

 

 

Honestly, you don't know what the feeling is like until you have someone close to you who has had a stalker that used "public information" to track them down.

[HenrySalayne]

1 hour ago, wanderingfool2 said:

if you know someones plane info put it here to track it" than "here's xyz's flight, they are now moving, and XYZ will be going to this location" and sending it out as a notification effectively by doing it on Twitter.

This is literally what you can do on most sites (excluding the Twitter part)...

And just a quick reminder: the account wasn't called "Where is Elon Musk?" but "ElonJet". It is tracking an aircraft and not a person. And it wasn't even sharing real time locations but just take-offs and landings.

Quote

On Wednesday night, Musk tweeted the apparent reason behind the rule change, writing: “Any account doxxing real-time location info of anyone will be suspended, as it is a physical safety violation.”

 

 

1 hour ago, wanderingfool2 said:

So yea, so much for my "pseudo fact",

Did you read your own source?

1 hour ago, wanderingfool2 said:

it's literally one of the justifications that news agencies thought was the reasoning for the ban.

No.

Quote

Replying to his own tweet, Musk alleged that, “Last night, car carrying lil X in LA was followed by crazy stalker (thinking it was me), who later blocked car from moving and climbed onto hood.”

“Legal action is being taken against Sweeney & organizations who supported harm to my family.”

It is not a fact, it is just the idea of a erratic, petty man.

 

1 hour ago, wanderingfool2 said:

Or maybe you can try taking 2 seconds to try verifying if what I am saying might be true instead of assuming I made it up.

Fair shot but I would recommend using "allegedly" and a link ...

2 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

For the record, Musk's child was in a vehicle that got stopped by a stalker (prior to that as well, when Musk appeared at airports people were using the ElonJet to figure out where he was).  My guess is if he delayed the feed by 30 minutes - 1 hour Sweeney wouldn't have been banned.

... and not "for the record".

 

 

 

1 hour ago, wanderingfool2 said:

Honestly, you don't know what the feeling is like until you have someone close to you who has had a stalker that used "public information" to track them down.

Switch off ADS-B so all the billionaires can fly with privacy! A stalker would not just plug the registration number into any "flight radar" site. That's way too much work. They rather get their information in small pieces somewhere, sometime, hidden in a Twitter feed...

[Lightwreather]

16 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

Switch off ADS-B so all the billionaires can fly with privacy!

Just as an addendum and not as a reply, an aircraft shouldn't really turn off ads-b, especially during take off and landing. RIMCAS (the Runway Incursion Monitoring and Collision Avoidance System) which is used by ATC to prevent collisions pretty much relies on the data reported by the transponders. 

Furthermore, during flight, I believe that it is used by controllers to maintain separation between aircraft, not too sure tho.

[HenrySalayne]

3 minutes ago, Lightwreather JfromN said:

Just as an addendum and not as a reply, an aircraft shouldn't really turn off ads-b, especially during take off and landing. RIMCAS (the Runway Incursion Monitoring and Collision Avoidance System) which is used by ATC to prevent collisions pretty much relies on the data reported by the transponders. 

I hope the irony behind my statement was obvious...

[Lightwreather]

11 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

I hope the irony behind my statement was obvious...

It was.

[Coaxialgamer]

3 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

It doesn't matter whether or not it came from public data.  Linus' address is a matter of public record, it would be creepy to look it up and I would consider it doxxing if people put it online where it was easier to find (like on a this forum)

 

If you grab data and utilize it in a way that gives access to millions of people who otherwise wouldn't even begin to know how to, then yea I consider that tracking.  Again, there is a difference in my view of broadcasting all data, vs formatting it and letting anyone see it (as it would be out of most people's capabilities to utilize the ADS-B data)

 

Especially if it's what lead to the incident where Musk's kid came in contact with a stalker.

 

Oh and here's a hint as well, it was a serious enough thing that Canada had a temporary order to prevent the publishing of the tracking of the PM's plane information.

if Mr Musk is so concerned about his aircraft's location being advertised to the world, perhaps he shouldn't fly private? No one would have to know what commercial flight he'd be taking and he gets the benefits of airports and airplanes being full of people too (making an attack against his aircraft potentially more difficult?). It would also be a whole lot greener too.

 

But hey, if asking billionaires not to use private jets when they could just as easily fly commercial borders on the unreasonable I'm all ears.

[Kisai]

5 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

There really are varying degrees of free speech though.

 

You may say pettiness, but given what I have seen with the ElonJet thing (even prior to Twitter purchase), I think the guy running it is creating actual security issues.  Like there is a literal distinction between allowing free speech and allowing speech that actively endangers lives by tracking a location of a person.

 

For the record, Musk's child was in a vehicle that got stopped by a stalker (prior to that as well, when Musk appeared at airports people were using the ElonJet to figure out where he was).  My guess is if he delayed the feed by 30 minutes - 1 hour Sweeney wouldn't have been banned.

 

Nope, this was petty and spiteful, and again, you do not need to defend billionaires here. What you have here is a Streisand effect. Elon decides he doesn't like what someone posts, suspends them, and then uses that as an excuse to suspend anyone who tweets about it. That is censorship.

 

If he simply had twitter "bury" posts containing "elonjet" so it wouldn't trend, none of this would even be a thing. But even then, that's not doxxing. If you fly by private jet, everyone knows where you are. That's how air travel works. The airport security, the air traffic controllers, the ground crew, all of them. There is ZERO privacy when you fly.

 

If you want privacy take a train, ferry or a private car, where there is no record of the person buying the ticket. It's just a toll to cross. Or hell, if you are worried about your family being stalked for whatever imaginary reason, have them fly with someone else. I'm sure chartering a private jet as-needed is just as viable as owning one.

[mr moose]

I see freedom of speech is only important when it's your views that are being suppressed.    For those of you who think this only applies to Elon then you need to look in the mirror.

[Coaxialgamer]

20 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I see freedom of speech is only important when it's your views that are being suppressed.    For those of you who think this only applies to Elon then you need to look in the mirror.

Most people aren't buying major social networks and proclaiming themselves to be "free speech absolutists".

[mr moose]

5 minutes ago, Coaxialgamer said:

Most people aren't going out buying major social networks and proclaiming themselves to be "free speech absolutists".

but they can pontificate their self concluded virtues which is just as bad.   You have no right to your opinion because mine is better. How dare you listen to that far X radical twit, he should be banned, lets cancel everything we don't agree with.  In my opinion it is right for twitter to ban trump, but not CNN or the NYT.  

 

How about people just learn how to deal with information they don't like rather than trying to silence or insult others all the fucking time?

[Arika]

This forum confuses the fuck out of me sometimes

 

Twitter before musk purchase: "it's their platform, they can do what they like"

i guess it's not Elon's platform to do with what he likes

 

Free speech before musk bought twitter: "there are limits to freedom of speech / freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences"

And NOW people are pontificating for Free Speech on twitter.

 

Look, i get it, what he said and what he did are 2 completely different things, but the same can be said for:

• Politicians
• CEOs
• High end management
• Linus
• People
• Children

Tell me you wouldn't bring down punishment on someone who was tracking your every move and potentially putting your family in danger if you had the power, regardless of your thoughts on free speech.

 

Apparently Doxxing is now fine, i guess......

[Coaxialgamer]

9 minutes ago, mr moose said:

but they can pontificate their self concluded virtues which is just as bad.   You have no right to your opinion because mine is better. How dare you listen to that far X radical twit, he should be banned, lets cancel everything we don't agree with.  In my opinion it is right for twitter to ban trump, but not CNN or the NYT.  

 

How about people just learn how to deal with information they don't like rather than trying to silence or insult others all the fucking time?

Most people can accept that social media platforms need moderation. If you believe that some political leanings are being unfairly discriminated against on social media I suggest you take a look at the content and rhetoric that actually gets people banned. If anything, the algorithmic choices the likes of Twitter make to amplify polarizing and controversial topics discounts the idea that more "radical" views are being suppressed, and the role played by twitter in the 2016 election is one example of this.

 

But that's hardly the problem. A simple choice on Elon's part to silently ban dissenting opinions would reflect poorly on Elon for sure, but would hardly cause much controversy. It's the fact that he actively championed the idea that his "new twitter" would be a censorship-free (in the sense that more radical views would not be algorithmically suppressed or result in sanctions) that makes this hypocritical. Either Elon wants a "free-speech absolutist" platform or he doesn't.

[Avocado Diaboli]

6 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

I do agree though, the twitter account that posts locations of people's whereabouts in real time should be shutdown.

I agree. Any service that tracks people's whereabouts and actions should be shut down. So please, take all data krakens down. Let's start with Twitter themselves.

 

7 minutes ago, Arika S said:

Free speech before musk bought twitter: "there are limits to freedom of speech / freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences"

And NOW people are pontificating for Free Speech on twitter.

I see this more as a lesson being taught to people, that they don't really want whatever they claim free speech to mean. Some people need a very real demonstration, because the mind of the narcissist is incapable of empathy. And you'd need that to see the world in any perspective other than your own.

[mr moose]

7 minutes ago, Coaxialgamer said:

Most people can accept that social media platforms need moderation.

Most people agree that they need moderation, so long as that moderation is of content they disagree with. 

 

7 minutes ago, Coaxialgamer said:

If you believe that some political leanings are being unfairly discriminated against on social media I suggest you take a look at the content and rhetoric that actually gets people banned. If anything, the algorithmic choices the likes of Twitter make to amplify polarizing and controversial topics discounts the idea that more "radical" views are being suppressed, and the role played by twitter in the 2016 election is one example of this.

Of course its happening.  you'd have to be willfully blind to not see the bias in all forms of media. twitter banned a presidential candidate in the lead up to an election on some of the most flimsiest of excuses.  If that isn't bias then your not looking hard enough.  And that is before you even consider about the amount of shady and unethical practices that were going on with twitters head turned the other way.

 

7 minutes ago, Coaxialgamer said:

But that's hardly the problem. A simple choice on Elon's part to silently ban dissenting opinions would reflect poorly on Elon for sure, but would hardly cause much controversy. It's the fact that he actively championed the idea that his "new twitter" would be a censorship-free (in the sense that more radical views would not be algorithmically suppressed or result in sanctions) that makes this hypocritical. Either Elon wants a "free-speech absolutist" platform or he doesn't.

 

My point is people will argue this is either good or bad depending on what they think of those news outlets.  People will cry freedom of speech for this, but not for presidential candidates in the lead up to elections.  Or the reverse will happen, they will be rejoicing for his holiness the Elon of musk has redeemed twitter from the evil overlords. That's the pontification I am referring to.  It's as obvious as all get out.

 

As is with everything Elon does, you'll have to wait a few days before we get something that even slightly resembles the truth.

 

 

[My_Computer_Is_Trash]

10 hours ago, Kisai said:

Gee Elon, whatever happened to free-speech absolution?

 

 

Honestly, the pettiness just doesn't surprise me. Elon is a big hypocrite.

 

Personally, I believe there must be a reason why these accounts were suspended. Elon doesn't just do things for no reason. In my opinion, he will explain himself sometime soon.