Posted October 31, 2022 20 hours ago, HenrySalayne said: German copyright law explicitly states that nobody may change your (art-)work without asking. Adobe replacing all colours with black seems like a pretty big change if you ask me. They aren't changing them to black. The colours will be loaded in as black when opened in Adobe's software, but that's because they are not being displayed correctly as the Pantone plugin is not present. The actual data on disk, however, is not changed in any way. If you re-add the plugin, the colour information is still there: Quote Existing Creative Cloud files and documents containing Pantone Color references will keep those color identities and information As your saved data is not being affected, this law will not apply here. 20 hours ago, HenrySalayne said: Contracts need to be specific enough to even be valid contracts. Some changes can certainly be tolerable but not drastic ones. Purging all colours from your previous works seems like a drastic change, at least IMHO. Again: they aren't "purging all colours" - the software simply can't show them anymore. If you set your monitor to black and white mode, does that purge all the colour data from your files? Of course not. If this accounts as a breach of copyright law, every single monitor and TV is breaching the same law with the various image manipulation features that they have built-in (sharpness, brightness, saturation, colourspace etc.). Same with things like MacOS' True-Tone. But this doesn't apply here, because none of these actually modify the data on the disk, they merely change how it's presented. CPU: i7 4790k, RAM: 16GB DDR3, GPU: GTX 1060 6GB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted October 31, 2022 13 hours ago, Roswell said: I literally work in the space as a professional. That’s why it was so easy to spot you making things up after you read a few sentences from Google… As I said before, you should probably refrain from pretending to understand an entire industry because it’s painfully obvious to anyone that works in said industry. It looks real silly. I don't believe you. You seem to think that only corporations make merchandise, and the people that go to conventions and sell pins have a magic wand to create them out of thin air. It was not a tiny "oh, I guess we can't make pins any more" comment, it was like "well, there goes half the merchandise I sell at conventions" type of screaming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted October 31, 2022 If only there was a competitor in the space... "Don't fall down the hole!" ~James, 2022 "If you have a monitor, look at that monitor with your eyeballs." ~ Jake, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted October 31, 2022 7 minutes ago, Sarra said: If only there was a competitor in the space... Yeah because we need another for-profit organization to license colors. This is one of the things that shouldn't be allowed to license. Just wait until most humans have eye implants like in Cyberpunk and suddenly Pantone says people have to pay another fee to not become colorblind. /s If someone did not use reason to reach their conclusion in the first place, you cannot use reason to convince them otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted October 31, 2022 2 minutes ago, Stahlmann said: Yeah because we need another for-profit organization to license colors. This is one of the things that shouldn't be allowed to license. Just wait until most humans have eye implants like in Cyberpunk and suddenly Pantone says people have to pay another fee to not become colorblind. /s If you read twitter on this issue, you'll notice that the majority of people complaining, also don't understand the issue, equating it with "oh just RGBA/CMYK values", when it has more to do with prepress work with, metallic inks, spot color, etc. Which the only other option is to wing it and hope the printer isn't stupid. It is bad enough when people work in RGB colorspace (eg Clip studio paint) and have to pass it to a printer who has to work in CMYK and can't match the colors because of the nature of paper. It's worse when you have people who want "this exact color" (think branding) and can't get it because their workspace color doesn't match a printable color. If people start refusing to use Pantone, then that sets off a chain of products being landfilled because of miscommunications over colors rather than function. People need to pop their head out of their own personal "it doesn't affect me" bubbles, because ultimately it does, and letting Adobe dictate a feature usually results in all competitors pulling the same thing. As you see how many art-related programs have moved to "subscription lose-everything-if-you-cancel" models. Prior to the internet, you had to buy plugins, and you kept them, and that's why you kept using photoshop and not another product. Now , you don't even keep the plugins because subscriptions to them ensure you don't. This is just another grab at doing that, in a critical space that threatens the production workflow of potentially everyone who produces merchandise. So let's say Adobe ejects Pantone, and Pantone stops developing their plugin because people refuse to buy it now. Now you have no way of asking your printer for specific colors because what you see on the screen will not match what they see on their screen. All because of the plugin. This was all supposed to be "over with" by having ICC profiles. When was the last time you actually installed a "monitor" driver that had one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted October 31, 2022 8 minutes ago, Kisai said: This was all supposed to be "over with" by having ICC profiles. When was the last time you actually installed a "monitor" driver that had one? ICC profiles are the wrong solution. And it's good that monitors don't come with one. You should never use an ICC profile that isn't specifically made for your monitor. As long as unit to unit variance stays a thing in the monitor industry, premade ICC profiles are either useless or damaging to color accuracity. If someone did not use reason to reach their conclusion in the first place, you cannot use reason to convince them otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted October 31, 2022 I used TRUMATCH colour matching in my shop in to 90s. My equipment was set up for it. Clients didn't seem to care one way or the other. But my experience was very limited and quite specific to certain products. I think Pantone was the dominant force in their field. I had no idea there were license issue that might extend to clients. What a weird world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted October 31, 2022 16 minutes ago, Kisai said: People need to pop their head out of their own personal "it doesn't affect me" bubbles, I think pantone are the one who should stop getting blinded by their own greed. They already make an insane profit from selling all their physical color samples..... (Which you have to replace regularly allegedly.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted October 31, 2022 25 minutes ago, Kisai said: People need to pop their head out of their own personal "it doesn't affect me" bubbles, because ultimately it does, and letting Adobe dictate a feature usually results in all competitors pulling the same thing. You know, you can simply use something like RAL for free. Nobody forces you to use Pantone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted October 31, 2022 59 minutes ago, jagdtigger said: I think pantone are the one who should stop getting blinded by their own greed. They already make an insane profit from selling all their physical color samples..... (Which you have to replace regularly allegedly.) Well, inks deteriorate over time. More so if they're on plastic or paper. Photofade is a real thing, but that should only happen if you're keeping these things under UV-generating lights (eg fluorescent tubes, not LED lights) or are being left in areas lit by "natural sunlight" Like I wouldn't put too much stock into "have to replace every year" like apparently they say so in the LTT video on the pantone colors. That seems more like something that a manufacturer would have to do if they are getting handled a lot. Not so much prepress work. If they're being kept in a filing cabinet away from light, they should last at least a decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted October 31, 2022 3 hours ago, Stahlmann said: Yeah because we need another for-profit organization to license colors. This is one of the things that shouldn't be allowed to license. Or someone releases a competitive product, and undercuts Pantone's prices, and suddenly, it's not stupid to buy this stuff... "Don't fall down the hole!" ~James, 2022 "If you have a monitor, look at that monitor with your eyeballs." ~ Jake, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted October 31, 2022 That's kinda crappy. But at the same time, I understand why Pantone wouldn't want to just give people access to their software without pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted October 31, 2022 7 hours ago, Kisai said: I don't believe you. Cool story. 7 hours ago, Kisai said: You seem to think that only corporations make merchandise Never said that. 7 hours ago, Kisai said: people that go to conventions and sell pins have a magic wand to create them out of thin air. You don’t need Pantone to make a pin. 7 hours ago, Kisai said: It was not a tiny "oh, I guess we can't make pins any more" comment, it was like "well, there goes half the merchandise I sell at conventions" type of screaming. Please do explain how this change will inhibit these people from selling their pins. Anyone with 2 brain cells can either download the color book or use spot colors and communicate with their printer. Or you know, not use Pantone. I feel like you just read “black and white files” with a complete lack of basic understanding in design and manufactured some weird outrage that makes zero logical sense. MacBook Pro 16 - i9-9980HK - Radeon Pro 5500m 8GB - 32GB DDR4 - 2TB NVME iPhone 12 Mini / Sony WH-1000XM4 / Bose Companion 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Roswell said: You don’t need Pantone to make a pin. Yes you do. https://www.ultimatepromotions.biz/blog/diy-enamel-pin-design-colour-matching Pantone Pantone https://www.pinprosplus.com/resources/pantone-color-matching Pantone https://wizardpins.helpscoutdocs.com/article/184-what-colors-do-you-offer-for-pins Pantone https://alchemymerch.com/pages/file-prep-pins Pantone, even better that one says exactly how Quote The factory uses Pantone+ Solid Coated and Pantone Pastels, so choose your colors from those Pantone group. If the closest match is ok, just let us know and we will assign the closest match and run it by you before it goes to the factory. Metallics (870s Solid Coated) and True Neons (800s Solid Coated/ 900s in Pastels) are not available. 800s/900s Neon can be color matched close in hue, but not the saturation and true neon. 1 hour ago, Roswell said: Please do explain how this change will inhibit these people from selling their pins. Anyone with 2 brain cells can either download the color book or use spot colors and communicate with their printer. Cause the artist and their clients will complain about getting things in the wrong colors. Go look at the LTT video again and note how much money is wasted in prototypes of other merchandise. Small merchandise orders do not have the luxury of wasting that much money. Especially people who produce like 100 pins to sell at a convention. 1 hour ago, Roswell said: Or you know, not use Pantone. Good luck getting the right colors then, or even getting merchandise produced if you care about the color. 1 hour ago, Roswell said: I feel like you just read “black and white files” with a complete lack of basic understanding in design and manufactured some weird outrage that makes zero logical sense. And I feel like you zeroed in something irrelevant just to come into the thread and and provide zero evidence against it. You're the one saying nobody uses pantone for anything, which I easily proved was not the case. There's also this: https://pluralistic.net/2022/10/28/fade-to-black/#trust-the-process Quote What's more, while there may not be any licensable copyright in a file that simply says, "Color this pixel with Pantone 448C" (provided the program doesn't contain ink-mix descriptions), Adobe's other products – its RIPs and Postscript engines – do depend on licensable elements of Pantone, so the company can't afford to tell Pantone to go pound sand. Remember a little while back that thing about Apple no longer supporting postscript? The take away everyone should have from this is that this is Primarily Adobe's SaaS model at fault. If it was not using that model, then people would just hold back upgrading until either Adobe negotiates with Pantone, or just not upgrade. That's no longer an option. Any leverage the customer had, now lies with dumping Adobe completely and destroying their entire workflow and potentially years of documents that now can't be read correctly by older or alternative products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 1, 2022 21 minutes ago, Kisai said: Yes you do. https://www.ultimatepromotions.biz/blog/diy-enamel-pin-design-colour-matching Pantone Pantone https://www.pinprosplus.com/resources/pantone-color-matching Pantone https://wizardpins.helpscoutdocs.com/article/184-what-colors-do-you-offer-for-pins Pantone https://alchemymerch.com/pages/file-prep-pins Pantone, even better that one says exactly how Cause the artist and their clients will complain about getting things in the wrong colors. Go look at the LTT video again and note how much money is wasted in prototypes of other merchandise. Small merchandise orders do not have the luxury of wasting that much money. Especially people who produce like 100 pins to sell at a convention. Good luck getting the right colors then, or even getting merchandise produced if you care about the color. And I feel like you zeroed in something irrelevant just to come into the thread and and provide zero evidence against it. You're the one saying nobody uses pantone for anything, which I easily proved was not the case. There's also this: https://pluralistic.net/2022/10/28/fade-to-black/#trust-the-process Remember a little while back that thing about Apple no longer supporting postscript? The take away everyone should have from this is that this is Primarily Adobe's SaaS model at fault. If it was not using that model, then people would just hold back upgrading until either Adobe negotiates with Pantone, or just not upgrade. That's no longer an option. Any leverage the customer had, now lies with dumping Adobe completely and destroying their entire workflow and potentially years of documents that now can't be read correctly by older or alternative products. Now I understand where your lack of comprehension is coming from. You actually think that you directly need Pantone plug-ins or official swatches in Adobe apps to be able to use a commercial printer that uses Pantone… This is kind of humorous as it demonstrates in complete certainty that you don’t even have a surface level understanding of how Adobe design apps (or any others for that matter) work for print. You’re reading these things and not understanding what they’re actually saying because you don’t even know the fundamentals… People aren’t whining because all of their past and future projects are suddenly not doable without paying Pantone. They’re whining because they have to do some extra work and correspond with their commercial printer. You don’t realize it because you’re too stuck on the whole “gotta win an internet argument” thing, but if you repeat this stuff to other professionals in the space, they’re gonna cringe real hard and call you out just like I did. You’re clearly out of your depth on the subject, you have zero experience as you’ve stated yourself. Just stop, it’s embarrassing. MacBook Pro 16 - i9-9980HK - Radeon Pro 5500m 8GB - 32GB DDR4 - 2TB NVME iPhone 12 Mini / Sony WH-1000XM4 / Bose Companion 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 1, 2022 28 minutes ago, Roswell said: Please do explain how this change will inhibit these people from selling their pins. Anyone with 2 brain cells can either download the color book or use spot colors and communicate with their printer. Have you considered that even the printer ink on paper is actually more than just the RGB value of the color? Or even that why there's different color models from which RGB, CMYK and L*a*b* are most used but especially RGB is often combined into HSL or HCL to make it usable? Why even Pantone is often used just as general color reference rather than the exact right color system? Pantone is often used as a reference color because since we found out magical substance called plastic and the Pantone color palette is exactly plastic color palette it somehow became the most relevant color reference. As in if you work with metals and paints, you probably hardly ever need to empty your pockets for Pantone color map because you use RAL colors which are paints and powder coatings. Now you probably can guess why RGB is actually very bad system when it leaves the computer world. RGB is only color, it doesn't tell luminance, glossiness or opacity, more physical paint related things like viscosity, additives or texture. The hex color doesn't help at all because it is just the RGB formated and told differently. Pantone and RAL are both known more as reference systems to which companies make their own color palettes because physical color is even more complicated than just what values it can be given because pigments, the materials that give things colors. "Just slap some blue pigment and red pigment and you get purple" as it was that simple, no no no, summer child, now we start to talk about metal oxides, ultramarine (sulfur), indigo and whole list of elements, plants, chemicals and all that juicy stuff that someone needs to mix into their own stuff in some amounts to get even that RGB value created. Now I need to join you with the argument for that why, most often certain professions, are so fixated to have the exact Pantone colors. As in back when I moved to use Krita over Photoshop one of my workers completely lost it because "iT DoEsN't uSE PaNtonE cOlOUrs!" while Krita does have Pantone approximation build in, which is colors that are indistinguishable from Pantone colors. As in while for example Pantone 2728 C is #0047BB it is literally just that, you can just as well use #0148BC and it isn't Pantone 2728 C anymore, it's not even #0048BA Absolute Zero, it's iLiedBlue and I made it up. But those three colors are technically the same color, no one can tell them apart unless they are given the RGB or hex values, no one can tell which one of them is which one without the values. And as long as you keep track of that little bit shift and remember to undo it if you need to reference the color to Pantone colors, or just write a script that do same kind of bit shift to every Pantone color in import and undoes it on export, what's the big deal? Yeah, you don't see the "ExACt" color on the screen but if you can, you really should rethink your professional endeavors because that is some supertaster, or more like hypertaster level of color separation skill and probably every art museum in there would like to hire you to spot the fakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Roswell said: Now I understand where your lack of comprehension is coming from. You have not proven you know any more than what can be read in wikipedia, so you are not winning any argument here. 1 hour ago, Roswell said: You actually think that you directly need Pantone plug-ins or official swatches in Adobe apps to be able to use a commercial printer that uses Pantone… Do you seriously expect people who are producing merchandise, to just make a guess? Cause I'm sure your clients will really appreciate the fact that you just pick random "good enough" colors. 1 hour ago, Roswell said: People aren’t whining because all of their past and future projects are suddenly not doable without paying Pantone. They’re whining because they have to do some extra work and correspond with their commercial printer. They are complaining because their workflow is going to be damaged, and will need to spend a lot of time and money on doing something manually that the computer could do, but gosh-darn-it, costs money. If the artists were making thousands of dollars a month, they could justify the stupid plugins, but they don't. Especially when they might only need it on one project, but they have to retain the license in perpetuity in order to open the files. 1 hour ago, Roswell said: You don’t realize it because you’re too stuck on the whole “gotta win an internet argument” thing, but if you repeat this stuff to other professionals in the space, they’re gonna cringe real hard and call you out just like I did. You’re clearly out of your depth on the subject, you have zero experience as you’ve stated yourself. Just stop, it’s embarrassing. The only thing embarrassing here, is your attempt to argue down someone on the internet, while providing zero factual evidence. You're the one trying to win an argument through attrition. I have experience with things I talk about. Clearly you do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 1, 2022 2 hours ago, Kisai said: Do you seriously expect people who are producing merchandise, to just make a guess? Cause I'm sure your clients will really appreciate the fact that you just pick random "good enough" colors. No guesswork needed… You’re just confirming my theory from my previous comment. You don’t need Pantone plug-ins, swatches or whatever to get your commercial printer to use Pantone calibrated colors. They need a number. You would know this if you had any shred of knowledge in design software. But you don’t, yet continue to argue as if you do. It’s like I’m arguing with a toddler that says they know how to engineer a rocket. I’m done, this just cringe at this point. I’ll leave you with your own words. The point where you should have stopped pretending to be knowledgeable on a subject you admittedly have no experience with whatsoever: On 10/29/2022 at 1:33 PM, Kisai said: I don't personally produce merchandise MacBook Pro 16 - i9-9980HK - Radeon Pro 5500m 8GB - 32GB DDR4 - 2TB NVME iPhone 12 Mini / Sony WH-1000XM4 / Bose Companion 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 1, 2022 3 hours ago, Roswell said: You would know this if you had any shred of knowledge in design software. But you don’t, yet continue to argue as if you do. It’s like I’m arguing with a toddler that says they know how to engineer a rocket. I’m done, this just cringe at this point. Do you not think I have clients that do? Where do you think I've been hearing the complaints from hmm? If you're going to pretend to try and challenge someone on a forum, you better produce proof. All you've proven is that you you seem to think that nobody but businesses produce merchandise. It was pretty clear from this comment that you don't know anything at all about design or merchandise: Quote sRGB printers don’t exist. Because the context of what I said was: Quote And what do you think happens when you get something printed hmm? You think they're just running some sRGB inkjet printer? Nobody uses an inkjet printer for anything but throw-away "hard copies" of things. I implied that you seem to think that convention sellers are using their $49 inkjet printer without any calibration or color matching (which is why I said sRGB, because that's the computer screen,) just to print jpeg's that they then glue on things, that's only a large step under cafepress POD stuff. No, people at conventions use the exact same commercial printers the big "only large businesses make merchandise" do. And if they don't use the tools the commercial printers want them to use, they have to pay a lot of money to get them to do the conversion, which they do not have the money for. Go visit an Artist Alley or any number Exhibitor booths at a comic, anime, gaming or entertainment convention. AA people are lucky to even make their table costs back. Pins are some of the cheapest things you can make that are profitable because they don't take up much space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 1, 2022 Thread cleaned. Stay on topic. CPU: Intel i7 6700k | Motherboard: Gigabyte Z170x Gaming 5 | RAM: 2x16GB 3000MHz Corsair Vengeance LPX | GPU: Gigabyte Aorus GTX 1080ti | PSU: Corsair RM750x (2018) | Case: BeQuiet SilentBase 800 | Cooler: Arctic Freezer 34 eSports | SSD: Samsung 970 Evo 500GB + Samsung 840 500GB + Crucial MX500 2TB | Monitor: Acer Predator XB271HU + Samsung BX2450 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 1, 2022 what about other color matching systems like RAL? What makes pantone so dominant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 1, 2022 1 hour ago, spartaman64 said: what about other color matching systems like RAL? What makes pantone so dominant? RAL is like less than 500 colors while Pantone is like a few thousand. But that's not the problem here. The problem is literately "That's not orange", so how many times do you go back to the manufacturer for another prototype? Linus himself said that the opportunity costs are many times more than the $10,000 the Pantone chips are. And that's also not considering the counterfeiting of their screw driver before they even got to sell it. In today's market, you can not afford to have products prototyped more than once. Someone will rip it off, patent it, and then sue you for selling your product in other markets that they started selling it in first. (I saw this many many many times when working for the auction company) One of those ways you keep counterfeit's out of your market is by using "trademark" color schemes, which means those colors have to be a match. The counterfeiters just know you used "orange", but what shade of orange? Some people are right though, the overall ordeal is pretty much a nothingburger, it's only such that there are not sufficient work arounds to "pantone licensed" products. Simply going "just use the CMYK color" completely misses the problem that the color on your screen and the color your manufacturer in China see will never exactly match, despite being given the same values. You can order paints, inks, threads, etc that are explicitly formulated "Pantone(tm)" colors. How do you go to a paint store that only sells Pantone(tm) calibrated color paints with a RAL color? "good enough" is only good enough for people who don't actually care. That said, there is a certain level of misunderstanding that permeates tech circles that a tech solution (eg websites with RGB-CMYK code conversions to RAL and Pantone(tm)) will solve or circumvent the problem, when that's only a small part of the problem. Yes, you could convert CMYK values. That doesn't mean everyone in the production workflow will understand what you want. Offset every pantone RGB value by 1 bit and now it's no longer a Pantone color, but now the people doing the prints can't print it, because it's not a Pantone(tm) color. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 2, 2022 58 minutes ago, Kisai said: That said, there is a certain level of misunderstanding that permeates tech circles that a tech solution (eg websites with RGB-CMYK code conversions to RAL and Pantone(tm)) will solve or circumvent the problem, when that's only a small part of the problem. Yes, you could convert CMYK values. That doesn't mean everyone in the production workflow will understand what you want. Offset every pantone RGB value by 1 bit and now it's no longer a Pantone color, but now the people doing the prints can't print it, because it's not a Pantone(tm) color. Say if I was to make a script for Photoshop that turns every Pantone color into the close approximation for work, tracks them (as in makes a new palette where it holds the approximation colors) and turns them back into Pantone colors when the work is saved, printed, exported, copied and whatever (except if someone takes a photo or screenshot from the screen at which point it probably doesn't matter if the color is Pantone or approximation because in that photo it 100% won't be), what is the problem? The program itself isn't using any Pantone colors because all of them will be changed to approximations and basicly anything usable coming out will have Pantone colors because we shift them back. The only problem would be that on the monitor the color isn't exactly the Pantone color but please, show me the person who can differentiate Pantone 2728 C from Absolute Zero, even more superhuman would be to differentiate the 2728 C from the color with only 1 bit changed as in it is literally +-1 in one channel (that is literally 1 off from 16,581,375 possible colors with RGB or CMY color space, even less if we include HSL or HCL color spaces with their added depths). As in no human can tell the difference only by looking between the Pantone color and the approximation, the difference is done within the code. But instead of letting that change go out, we just track the approximation color used with special palette in which every color will be shifted by the same +-1 bit on ANY output so the file or print we end up with will have the Pantone color. We do expect that no one will be using Pantone color and the exact approximation color given to that Pantone color in the same file but that would probably only happen with some gradient color use or perspective drawing with color shift and even then we probably could get away by excluding the approxiated and the Pantone color from the gradient without anyone being able to tell (without computer aid) that they are missing (very rarely any gradient does actually use 1 bit fine steps in the gradient because that is pretty much wasting resources except in some special cases). Quote "good enough" is only good enough for people who don't actually care. In some cases the good enough is what you get and people just care too much about insignificant things. You cannot tell 1 bit different colors apart, computer can tell you but we can just put the color into special place and tell the computer to lie to you about those colors and you wouldn't know the difference if it wasn't told to you that the computer lies. We can even make the eye dropper tool to report you the RGB/CMY/Hex value of the Pantone color while in reality it has copied the value and color of the approximation palette, so you wouldn't spot even from that that you are not actually using Pantone colors. What is important is that the saved files, anything send to anywhere and any written palette lists use the correct colors and the correct values; That nothing leaves the software with the colors from the "special palette" without them being transformed into what they should be first. I don't know how far Pantone licensing goes so can you include list of Pantone color values and reference to it everytime the user chooses a color and change the bit if it's a match or do you even there need to do some circumvention and hold already bit shifted values and then compare the values. But that is just inconvenience because we don't actually need to hold a list of Pantone colors to check if user has chosen a Pantone color that we need to give some unPantone treatment because Pantone cannot own every list of numbers there is and we can do a lot of things to simple numbers to hide their true meaning and we do have a lot of computational power to do way too many operations that someone could say that we are holding a list of Pantone colors without paying a cent for them, hell, throw some salt and pepper in just to get some spice into the mix and Pantone has even less to complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 2, 2022 5 hours ago, Kisai said: . Someone will rip it off, patent it, and then sue you for selling your product in other markets that they started selling it in first. That's not how patents work. 5 hours ago, Kisai said: RAL is like less than 500 colors while Pantone is like a few thousand. And? Do you need 80 different shades of slightly tinted grey with 5 more being released every year? Or do you want an established and more or less free to use colour system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted November 2, 2022 On 10/31/2022 at 8:24 PM, Sarra said: Or someone releases a competitive product, and undercuts Pantone's prices, and suddenly, it's not stupid to buy this stuff... It's still stupid to have any kind of licensing cost when it comes to colors. If someone did not use reason to reach their conclusion in the first place, you cannot use reason to convince them otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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