I no longer care about scalpers at all

[NF-A12x25]

4 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

but there is no exploitation in this instance

 

[Jtalk4456]

17 hours ago, Real_Smoky said:

I honestly don't care at all about scalpers.

You should. The now bald victims didn't deserve this! There's no excuse in our modern society for scalping and it's completely illegal. How dare you disrespect the now bald victims, shame on you!

[Jerakl]

Seems someone just learned about supply and demand for the first time

[Real_Smoky]

2 hours ago, Jerakl said:

Seems someone just learned about supply and demand for the first time

Yeah, the people who were outraged people were scalping cards. 

[superfantastic]

22 hours ago, Real_Smoky said:

Unpopular opinion: 2-3 years into the big bad C and silicon shortage market conditions, I honestly don't care at all about scalpers.

That's how the free market works. GPUs are not essential like water or food, so everyone has the right to buy them for however much they want and sell them for however much the market can bear.

I don't even care about the "unfair" bots who buy cards because somebody has to have paid for the bots or developed them, so somebody did the work every one of us was free to do as well, we just didn't.
 

You make a bigger deal about scalpers in this post than anyone ever did. Like you say, a gpu is not essential to life. And nobody thinks that. Doesn't mean that some ass jacking up the price of a gpu you want to buy isn't annoying.

[Real_Smoky]

2 minutes ago, superfantastic said:

You make a bigger deal about scalpers in this post than anyone ever did. Like you say, a gpu is not essential to life. And nobody thinks that. Doesn't mean that some ass jacking up the price of a gpu you want to buy isn't annoying.

There are literally people celebrating and encouraging robbing of and violence against scalpers. Lurk moar. 

[superfantastic]

2 minutes ago, Real_Smoky said:

There are literally people celebrating and encouraging robbing of and violence against scalpers. Lurk moar. 

I mean those aren't people. I'm talking about humans, not angry apes. You can't communicate with angry apes. Waste of your time.

What does lurk mean?

[ThousandBlade]

I don't think this is a scalper problem, it's a capitalism problem.

 

I mean what's the difference between scalping something and trading stocks and options?

functionally they are the same. people buying and selling things they don't need to extract value out of a market without contributing to society.

 

I mean this is one of those "we live in a society" problems. Being morally corrupt isn't being punished but rewarded.

 

it's up to each individual to decide if they wanna do the right thing and feel like they're better than everyone else, or if they wanna make some money off of some sucker and feel like they're better than everyone else.

[Isuck Assimov]

ppl who get mad at scalpers haven't understood the capitalist system in which we are forced to live.

Get mad about insulin prices or something that actually matters.

[HumdrumPenguin]

On 10/19/2022 at 3:19 PM, Brooksie359 said:

Yep gotta love capitalism. Screw other people over in the name of profit because who cares about other people. It's why tickets to live events have been basically impossible to sell at a reasonable price. I'm sorry but scalpers provide little value to society other than inflated prices on scarce products. Sure the only person that really benefits from scalpers is the rich who can afford the price hike as it ensures they is stock left that they cN buy even if it is an inflated one. Me I prefer when it was first come first serve and you just had to be lucky to get a product rather than people cheating the system with bots. 

None of us will ever change human behaviour, ever. Worrying about what you can’t control is pointless, so I say let it go.

[Brooksie359]

38 minutes ago, HumdrumPenguin said:

None of us will ever change human behaviour, ever. Worrying about what you can’t control is pointless, so I say let it go.

That is a dumb way of looking at things. Scalping essential goods I generally illegal even though it's human nature for some to be absolutely horrible people just to make money. The only issue is that medical companies get to do price gouging and we simply let them in the US because we have no laws against it while in basically every other modern country they have regulations and nationalized health care that bargains the prices down the something reasonable. So although you can't change human nature you can create laws and regulations that stops parts of human nature that are bad for society as a whole. 

[NF-A12x25]

59 minutes ago, HumdrumPenguin said:

None of us will ever change human behaviour, ever. Worrying about what you can’t control is pointless, so I say let it go.

This is a very privileged mindset, but this thread is already toeing the line of forum rules so I will leave it at that.

[Just that Mario]

On 10/20/2022 at 1:19 AM, Brooksie359 said:

Screw other people over in the name of profit because who cares about other people.

Why should you care about random strangers more than about your own needs?

[Brooksie359]

4 hours ago, Just that Mario said:

Why should you care about random strangers more than about your own needs?

It's called empathy and sympathy. If you don't have either of those then you are a sociopath. Also needs and wants are different things. Nobody needs to screw others over to make money it's just a shortcut some people take because they simply don't care about how they screw others over. I mean do you think pharmaceutical companies need to sell insulin at 10x the price in the US in the name of profit vs the price they sell it for in the rest of the world? Obviously not they just do so because it makes them more money and who cares about the thousands that die from lack of insulin because they can't afford to buy more. People do alot of really despicable things in the name of profit and to try and justify it as prioritizing ones needs over a random stranger is plain delusional as nobody needs to do such despicable acts. 

[wasab]

6 hours ago, Just that Mario said:

Why should you care about random strangers more than about your own needs?

because humans are social animals. Be loved and love others are important for ones health. If you are thrown into solidatry confinment for your entire life, you will eventually get sick and die, this is a an actual medical condition and disease. This means you do need to have some minimal consideration for others

[NF-A12x25]

On 10/20/2022 at 11:54 AM, that_dude said:

TL;DR It feels like companies are now the scalpers

always have been

[SansVarnic]

"I no longer care about scalpers at all", ok, but most people feel the same way. Scalpers are scummy but if people pay that's on them and why should I care? I don't, don't buy from scalpers and they would stop existing if people would stop buying from them.

[Arika]

4 hours ago, SansVarnic said:

"I no longer care about scalpers at all", ok, but most people feel the same way. Scalpers are scummy but if people pay that's on them and why should I care? I don't, don't buy from scalpers and they would stop existing if people would stop buying from them.

i didn't think this was a hot take when the thread was first posted. but the 3 preceding pages proved me wrong

[LogicalDrm]

On 10/20/2022 at 6:34 PM, Jtalk4456 said:

You should. The now bald victims didn't deserve this! There's no excuse in our modern society for scalping and it's completely illegal. How dare you disrespect the now bald victims, shame on you!

I think you forgot the /s

 

On 10/20/2022 at 6:51 PM, NastyFlytrap said:

It seems the corporate brainwashing has gotten to you komrade

You are mixing two things. Scalpers, for the most part, aren't corporate. They are individuals who have extra funds to gain even more funds buy buying and selling high-demand items. What I think you mean are price gaugers, which are companies that sell essential products for high overpricing. And there are normal markets and retailers who price their items with formula of <buy-in>+<shipping and other fees>+<running costs/amount of items>*>profit marging>.

[SansVarnic]

On 10/20/2022 at 8:09 PM, ThousandBlade said:

I don't think this is a scalper problem, it's a capitalism problem.

 

I mean what's the difference between scalping something and trading stocks and options?

functionally they are the same. people buying and selling things they don't need to extract value out of a market without contributing to society.

 

I mean this is one of those "we live in a society" problems. Being morally corrupt isn't being punished but rewarded.

 

it's up to each individual to decide if they wanna do the right thing and feel like they're better than everyone else, or if they wanna make some money off of some sucker and feel like they're better than everyone else.

On 10/21/2022 at 2:19 AM, Assimov said:

ppl who get mad at scalpers haven't understood the capitalist system in which we are forced to live.

Get mad about insulin prices or something that actually matters.

 

Capitalism is not the issue.

The word or term you are looking for is Cronyism, not Capitalism. Most people get this wrong, a lot. Cronyism is the issue, capitalism =/= cronyism and vice versa. Capitalism works simply fine and has been proven to be the best system for economic growth. Price gouging and scalpers are examples of cronyism. Like the product but don't like the price? buy from the competitor or make one and compete yourself. That is the beauty of capitalism and doesn't exist in other forms of economics. Capitalism allows for competition for product improvement and healthy pricing, if cronyism is involved that does not happen and you see this happen more and you think to yourself, capitalism is bad because this is supposed to be a capitalist economy and so logically you assume capitalism is the problem.

LMG prices will go down as demand goes down, demand is remarkably high so the price will stay. Don't want to wait for the product to come out of its adoption phase? then it's no longer a capital or crony problem, it's now a you problem.

 

LMG priced their screwdriver appropriately to make sure they were able to pay off the investment, now granted the precepted right thing to do is to lower the price to both stay competitive and as the proper thing to do for customers since they obviously sold more than they initially expected. Now, I won't advocate that they do this now, I would agree that the price should not drop until at least until after all the waves have been filled. Why? because it's fair for both LMG and the purchaser and the screwdrivers are still in its early adoption phase. They already had to do one recall and fix it with the initial wave. The product has not yet been out in the hands of people to pass this phase. If the screwdriver does have a manufacture issue, that money LMG is making right now will be funneled to fix the issue and provide warranty replacements for the faulty product. Did you consider this? I will go on a limb and say no. There is much in the way of how a product is priced that isn't revealed publicly and in general is just not known to the purchaser but if you understand the process, you will understand the pricing. Another thing to consider is the pricing may stay the same to help fund the next project, companies do this as well, use profit from one product to as capital to fund other projects or R&D and this is not uncommon or wrong to do, its business.

 

I am in no way defending the price LMG has set, but neither was I there to fully under the investment, time and sheer amount of work that went into the process that took 3 years to develop. LMG is within their right and wherewithal to price and sell the screwdriver at the level they chose to compete at.

If anyone doesn't like it, buy a competitor's screwdriver simple as that, and no need to get worked up or point fingers at certain processes because your unhappy. And as I said the price will come down, just give it the appropriate amount of time to happen. If it never drops, say a year from now, then maybe you will have a proper complaint to make. And then I suggest you make that suggestion to LMG directly. 

This may sound a little direct and to some a little aggressive but there is an old saying, put up or shut up. It means if you dont agree to something then do something about it or walk away and do nothing. Complaining about isn't do anything. Educate yourself, learn the process, then step up and get involved and make the change.

[Rex Hite]

Market pricing is just a component of capitalism and its fluctuations neither indict nor validate capitalism.

Prices are determined by decisions, not forces. Supply and demand describes conditions, not laws.

 

Right now my business is hit hard by a so-called global shipping crisis. I have two major suppliers that are gigantic multi-national concerns many many...many decades old.  Both manufacture competing but essentially identical products.

 

One of the companies raised their prices (my costs) by an outrageous amount. But they still only deliver a small fraction of mine and my customers' demand.

The other company  has not raised their prices beyond historical rates at all, and yet  they too cannot adequately fulfill my or my customers' demands. This scarcity is a joke/meme in my industry.

 

When these items are delivered to me for re-sale I mark up both items by the same percentage since before the shortage.  That makes one outrageously more expensive than the other. The customer can decide on the value and merits of each.

 

So prices are ultimately determined by decisions, not forces. I think the so-called "law of supply and demand" and "market forces" are just some of the many fictions we tell ourselves to justify either greed or misfortune, depending on the side of the ledger we prefer.

 

 

[Jtalk4456]

On 10/23/2022 at 8:28 AM, LogicalDrm said:

I think you forgot the /s

I really hope the /s wouldn't be necessary there XD

[wasab]

if demand and supply can decide whats best for humanity, we wouldnt have situtaions like people starving to death in Africa while supermarkets in the first world decide to throw away perfectly edible apple or peaches beacuse they dont look red or pink enough. We wouldnt have movie stars, entertainers making billions while people out there saving lives like nurses and firefighters making a faction of that.

 

The only thing supply and demand is good at is that they respond to human desire(want) vs the desired item/service's scarity(supply) better than any other alternatives. Understanding how people reconciled unlimited desire vs sacarcity of resources is pretty much entirety of the field of economics. It doesnt mean whatever is produce and whatever resources consume is the best to produce and the best to consume for the society as a whole.

 

A tocbacco company can produce shit tons of cancer sticks and earn a greater profit and margins than like say vegetables and produces. It doesnt mean they are better for the society than like say vegetables and produces, it only meant people with enough resources and money think spending this much on these items/services is worth it. The supply side of the equation will heavily exercbate or eliminate their accessibility to these items/services, hiking up the prices or completely crash it to free for all. It will respond to demand by increasing prodcution and scale back production when facing low demand which is what made it superior to the alternative like say centrally planned economy.  

 

What is sad is that no alternative to free market exists as of now. Command economy is a miserable failure. So until humanity progress enough in technology or whatever else to fully supplant it, free market and supply and demand is the best thing out there to regulate how goods and sercvices are priced at and how much produced.

[Slave2school]

I'm holding out against buying an overpriced card, not because I can't afford it but the principal right now and my stuff is perfectly sufficient. It is frustrating though. I would really like a 4090 for 4k. These are luxury goods though.

[NF-A12x25]

On 10/23/2022 at 10:10 AM, SansVarnic said:

 

Capitalism is not the issue.

The word or term you are looking for is Cronyism, not Capitalism. Most people get this wrong, a lot. Cronyism is the issue, capitalism =/= cronyism and vice versa. Capitalism works simply fine and has been proven to be the best system for economic growth. Price gouging and scalpers are examples of cronyism. Like the product but don't like the price? buy from the competitor or make one and compete yourself. That is the beauty of capitalism and doesn't exist in other forms of economics. Capitalism allows for competition for product improvement and healthy pricing, if cronyism is involved that does not happen and you see this happen more and you think to yourself, capitalism is bad because this is supposed to be a capitalist economy and so logically you assume capitalism is the problem.

LMG prices will go down as demand goes down, demand is remarkably high so the price will stay. Don't want to wait for the product to come out of its adoption phase? then it's no longer a capital or crony problem, it's now a you problem.

Cronyism is not the issue, capitalism is the issue and cronyism is simply a symptom of capitalism. Capitalism has no beauty, it’s a ruthlessly exploitative system that goes against the herd nature of humans. It’s based on the extraction of surplus value from workers and is therefore unsustainable without exploitation. 

There are other forms of market economy, such as mutualism, that eschew the extraction of surplus value and therein lies any beauty that one could find in a market system. Markets very much exist in other economic systems.

 

Capitalism, as you said, only “works simply fine” if you ignore the repetitive recessions that must occur, the exploitation of the working class by the bourgeois class, the billions that have died of preventable causes solely due to lack of money, and the billions more (yes, literally billions) that have died in the global south due to imperialism under capitalism.