Google Echo? Apple Nest? Amazon Homepod? No problem for Matter!

[Lurick]

4 hours ago, Arika S said:

no one needs a lightbulb or thermostat to be connected to the internet

Why?

[Bombastinator]

3 hours ago, BuckGup said:

No this is an API to allow the data to be shared between all these companies under the radar. 

 

Wall-E

I understand wall-E was supposed to be much more gruesome with people not even being recognizable as people anymore but just floating blobs.  They couldn’t make it work visually though.  And of course it wouldn’t really be a kids movie at that point.  Had to do with bone growth in zero gravity.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Bombastinator

[Noble3212]

21 hours ago, Senzelian said:

 

 

Matter 1.0, a new smart home standard, was finally released by CSA (Connectivity Standards Alliance). This new smart home standard allows interoperabillity between different eco systems, such as the ones from Google, Apple and Amazon, which are all members of the alliance. Matter's goals are to simplify the IOT and smart home space by making it easier to adopt new devices, make sure that they work and on top is supposed to increase security by enabling devices to work entirely on private networks without being connected to the internet.

 

Devices that feature support for this new standard will have the matter logo printed on the box.

 

With the release of Matter 1.0 companies will now be able to get their devices certified for the new standard and afterwards push updates to already existing devices to support it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

My thoughts

I personally enjoy the idea of being able to adopt a Amazon or Apple device to Google Home and simply know that these devices will work seemlessly with Google Assistant, even tho they might not offer the full feature set, as I'm sure I won't be able to ask my Google Home Max questions with "Hey Siri". On top of that being able to adopt a Phillips Hue device without having to install the Phillips Hue app is great, as long as Phillips will certify their devices. But considering that IKEA and Lutron are also part of the alliance, I don't think they will miss out on it.

 

Sources

https://www.androidcentral.com/accessories/smart-home/matter-spec-launch

https://csa-iot.org/members/

I connected my toilet RGB to the Internet. ( I use google nest because I hate my life and want google to track me every second of the day. 

[Bombastinator]

23 minutes ago, Noble3212 said:

I connected my toilet RGB to the Internet. ( I use google nest because I hate my life and want google to track me every second of the day. 

You had me at toilet rgb.

 

they actually used to do lighted toilets.  Still might.  They were UV flourescents that were supposed to be anti microbial. Apparently they didn’t work because for UV to function with water the stream has to be really thin.

[BuckGup]

58 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

You had me at toilet rgb.

 

they actually used to do lighted toilets.  Still might.  They were UV flourescents that were supposed to be anti microbial. Apparently they didn’t work because for UV to function with water the stream has to be really thin.

Check out Japanese toilets. They have everything even active carbon filters 

[Arika]

7 hours ago, Lurick said:

Why?

??? Because you don't???

[divito]

2 hours ago, Arika S said:

??? Because you don't???

You also don't need a car when a horse and buggy will do.

[Bombastinator]

4 hours ago, BuckGup said:

Check out Japanese toilets. They have everything even active carbon filters 

That sounds like a ..ahem (removes sunglasses) waste.  REEEEEAHHHH! 

The thing about activated charcoal is what it really is is “recently burned wood” or sometimes not-so-recently burned but put immediately in an airtight container.  When carbon molecules have their bits driven off by high heat they will latch onto almost anything they can find.  So hardcore broad spectrum molecular level cleaning.  The problem is that anything includes air, and once they have something they don’t care anymore, so carbon filters often don’t last very long.

[Arika]

1 hour ago, divito said:

You also don't need a car when a horse and buggy will do.

did you seriously just make that comparison?

 

give me one good reason for internet connected lightbulbs or thermostats.

[divito]

12 minutes ago, Arika S said:

did you seriously just make that comparison?

Cars offer convenience, efficiency, and practical benefits over a horse and buggy, as do IoT devices to their non-connected counterparts.
 

20 minutes ago, Arika S said:

give me one good reason for internet connected lightbulbs or thermostats.

Thermostats
Automation

- Automated firmware updates

- Real-time weather (useful in places that experience all four seasons to adjust accordingly)
- Schedule adaptation to save energy during certain hours

Convenience
- Ability to override settings while away for a variety of circumstances

- Subjective ease-of-use features compared to non-smart options

Light Bulbs
There are slightly less benefits to light bulbs, outside of being able to turn off lights if you forgot to before leaving. The ability to have them attached to apps and be able to develop routines/schedules to help automate and save energy shouldn't necessarily need internet access.

I think this positioning IoT as being unnecessary, or risky, flies in the face of a lot of the ways technology is setup and has been used for decades. There are far more concerning, critical pieces of infrastructure in governments and commercial companies that allow remote access versus someone turning your lights on and off. The fear mongering that goes on is a bit much, and the general public's normal internet use is far more risky than having some IoT devices in their home. As with anything, education and standards are important to help reach the next level.

 

[Bombastinator]

23 minutes ago, divito said:

Cars offer convenience, efficiency, and practical benefits over a horse and buggy, as do IoT devices to their non-connected counterparts.
 

Thermostats
Automation

- Automated firmware updates

- Real-time weather (useful in places that experience all four seasons to adjust accordingly)
- Schedule adaptation to save energy during certain hours

Convenience
- Ability to override settings while away for a variety of circumstances

- Subjective ease-of-use features compared to non-smart options

Light Bulbs
There are slightly less benefits to light bulbs, outside of being able to turn off lights if you forgot to before leaving. The ability to have them attached to apps and be able to develop routines/schedules to help automate and save energy shouldn't necessarily need internet access.

I think this positioning IoT as being unnecessary, or risky, flies in the face of a lot of the ways technology is setup and has been used for decades. There are far more concerning, critical pieces of infrastructure in governments and commercial companies that allow remote access versus someone turning your lights on and off. The fear mongering that goes on is a bit much, and the general public's normal internet use is far more risky than having some IoT devices in their home. As with anything, education and standards are important to help reach the next level.

 

Just because there are bigger problems around doesn’t make a given problem smaller.  It just means there are more dangerous things to deal with.  There’s a non zero possibility the human race could get wiped out by Putin’s ego right now.  Doesn’t mean you should start doing unsafe things though.

[divito]

1 minute ago, Bombastinator said:

Just because there are bigger problems around doesn’t make a given problem smaller.  It just means there are more dangerous things to deal with.  There’s a non zero possibility the human race could get wiped out by Putin’s ego right now.  Doesn’t mean you should start doing unsafe things though.

There are concerns with IoT, just as there are with any connected device; nothing about my comments is trying to eschew that there aren't steps that are needed to make IoT devices better.

However, the reaction and sentiment some people have about IoT is disproportionate to the actual risk involved, compared with any other activity and device they use on the internet. Crusading against IoT is simply illogical.

[Blademaster91]

16 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

Or a microwave that speaks with the fridge 

That reminds me of an IOT microwave that was made useless because of a bad firmware update, there is no reason why a microwave or fridge needs to connect to the internet.

[Blademaster91]

1 hour ago, divito said:

Cars offer convenience, efficiency, and practical benefits over a horse and buggy, as do IoT devices to their non-connected counterparts.

So you're insisting normal light bulbs are outdated? I still don't see the comparison you're making lol.

1 hour ago, divito said:

Thermostats
Automation

- Automated firmware updates

- Real-time weather (useful in places that experience all four seasons to adjust accordingly)
- Schedule adaptation to save energy during certain hours

Convenience
- Ability to override settings while away for a variety of circumstances

- Subjective ease-of-use features compared to non-smart options

Light Bulbs
There are slightly less benefits to light bulbs, outside of being able to turn off lights if you forgot to before leaving. The ability to have them attached to apps and be able to develop routines/schedules to help automate and save energy shouldn't necessarily need internet access.

I think this positioning IoT as being unnecessary, or risky, flies in the face of a lot of the ways technology is setup and has been used for decades. There are far more concerning, critical pieces of infrastructure in governments and commercial companies that allow remote access versus someone turning your lights on and off. The fear mongering that goes on is a bit much, and the general public's normal internet use is far more risky than having some IoT devices in their home. As with anything, education and standards are important to help reach the next level.

A normal thermostat never needs updates, I can use my phone to check the weather and adjust the thermostat accordingly myself, every other "convenience" feature is also a way for companies to mine data and utility companies to not allow you to adjust your own thermostat.

As for light bulbs I don't see the need for internet connected light bulbs, the only reason I can see is turning them on or off while away for security, but that shouldn't require light bulbs to be connected to a wifi router.

And there are lots of more concerning things than worrying about saving a few cents on an energy bill while willingly letting companies data mine from IOT lights and appliances, and I think the e-waste all this IOT crap causes is a lot worse than using a bit more energy from forgetting to turn the lights off. It isn't fear mongering as IOT devices usually have terrible security and even if there was a standard I wouldn't expect companies to actually care about making secure devices while still violating consumer privacy.

[Bombastinator]

12 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

So you're insisting normal light bulbs are outdated? I still don't see the comparison you're making lol.

A normal thermostat never needs updates, I can use my phone and adjust the thermostat accordingly myself, every other "convenience" feature is also a way for companies to mine data and utility companies to not allow you to adjust your own thermostat.

As for light bulbs I don't see the need for internet connected light bulbs, the only reason I can see is turning them on or off while away for security, but that shouldn't require light bulbs to be connected to a wifi router.

And there are lots of more concerning things than worrying about saving a few cents on an energy bill while willingly letting companies data mine from IOT lights and appliances, it isn't fear mongering as IOT devices usually have terrible security and even if there was a standard I wouldn't expect companies to actually care about making secure devices while still violating consumer privacy.

The thing that bugs me about internet connected light bulbs or more or less anything IOT is whatever it is has terrible security.  The concept of “yeah my toaster and bathroom vanity got PWNed by a cartel and are currently part of a botnet doing a DDoS attack on Deutchebank atm” is just something I don’t want to be a part of.  I watched a thing about a guy that does intrusion testing and the first thing they look for is IOT stuff.  They took down a whole grocery store completely because the meat scale in the deli was internet connected.

Edited October 7, 2022 by Bombastinator

[suicidalfranco]

2 hours ago, divito said:

Cars offer convenience, efficiency, and practical benefits over a horse and buggy, as do IoT devices to their non-connected counterparts.
 

Thermostats
Automation

- Automated firmware updates

- Real-time weather (useful in places that experience all four seasons to adjust accordingly)
- Schedule adaptation to save energy during certain hours

Convenience
- Ability to override settings while away for a variety of circumstances

- Subjective ease-of-use features compared to non-smart options

Light Bulbs
There are slightly less benefits to light bulbs, outside of being able to turn off lights if you forgot to before leaving. The ability to have them attached to apps and be able to develop routines/schedules to help automate and save energy shouldn't necessarily need internet access.

I think this positioning IoT as being unnecessary, or risky, flies in the face of a lot of the ways technology is setup and has been used for decades. There are far more concerning, critical pieces of infrastructure in governments and commercial companies that allow remote access versus someone turning your lights on and off. The fear mongering that goes on is a bit much, and the general public's normal internet use is far more risky than having some IoT devices in their home. As with anything, education and standards are important to help reach the next level.

 

none of those "features" require a constant internet connection

[GhostRoadieBL]

Iot device control without a stupid subscription and internet connection will be a massive game changer. It's curious how the new standard works with future  mandatory online devices like the echo, voice control code doesn't require internet unless the company forces it on the user (been voice controlling Win 7 for years) it's unlikely to change surveillance 'assistant' devices like the nest but maybe this is a step in the right direction for fully local devices to run assistant software.

[Arika]

4 hours ago, divito said:

- Automated firmware updates

or you can get something that never needs updates and just works..

 

Quote

- Real-time weather (useful in places that experience all four seasons to adjust accordingly)
 

why does your thermostat need to tell you that?

 

Quote

- Schedule adaptation to save energy during certain hours

doesn't need internet

 

Quote

- Ability to override settings while away for a variety of circumstances

what "variety of circumstances"?

 

Quote

- Subjective ease-of-use features compared to non-smart options

 

5 buttons is too complicated compared to setting up the smart features, connecting it to your network, downloading an app, being connected to the internet?

 

Quote

The ability to have them attached to apps and be able to develop routines/schedules to help automate and save energy shouldn't necessarily need internet access

....who needs to schedule lightbulbs to turn on and off?

 

 

Quote

As with anything, education and standards are important to help reach the next level.

education and standards don't fix the vulnerabilities that exist and not to mention that IOT devices are more likely to NOT be updated and therefore vulnerabilities are more liekly to stick around

 

4 hours ago, divito said:

There are far more concerning, critical pieces of infrastructure in governments and commercial companies that allow remote access versus someone turning your lights on and off.

people complain about needing to update windows every now and again, but they're expected to keep their fridge, light switches, hub, smart assistants, lightbulbs etc all updated so you don't have all these weaknesses in your network?

like how you can access an internal network from said lightbulbs

 

[mr moose]

19 hours ago, BuckGup said:

 

 

Wall-E

Was going to make that a part of my post but decided not everyone would understand connection.

[LAwLz]

7 hours ago, Arika S said:

give me one good reason for internet connected lightbulbs or thermostats.

Dude, seriously?

There are massive power savings to be had by using an Internet connected thermostat. How much or little heat you need in your home is very dependent on the weather, which is every changing. It can also depend on things like if you are away from home or not. 

 

I can somewhat understand being against Internet connected lightbulbs (although I think some people are unreasonably against them), but they can be neat. 

Maybe you want to close some curtains and turn the lights on at the same time? 

Maybe you want some light to turn on slightly if your baby starts screaming in the middle of the night?

 

A lot of IoT things are not necessarily connected to the Internet either. Oftentimes it is more about automating things where multiple devices needs to work together or in a particular manner. Turning on outdoor lights when the gate to your driveway opens up, but only if it's dark outside. Making a camera record when for example a certain key/tag is used to open your door (maybe you want cameras to record your gardener but don't want it recording all the time).

 

 

There is no need to hate a tool. You can object to how they are being used, but there will always be use cases for tools, and it is up to people to decide how they can be used and if they feel like using them.

[suicidalfranco]

1 minute ago, LAwLz said:

Dude, seriously?

There are massive power savings to be had by using an Internet connected thermostat. How much or little heat you need in your home is very dependent on the weather, which is every changing. It can also depend on things like if you are away from home or not. 

 

I can somewhat understand being against Internet connected lightbulbs (although I think some people are unreasonably against them), but they can be neat. 

Maybe you want to close some curtains and turn the lights on at the same time? 

Maybe you want some light to turn on slightly if your baby starts screaming in the middle of the night?

 

A lot of IoT things are not necessarily connected to the Internet either. Oftentimes it is more about automating things where multiple devices needs to work together or in a particular manner. Turning on outdoor lights when the gate to your driveway opens up, but only if it's dark outside. Making a camera record when for example a certain key/tag is used to open your door (maybe you want cameras to record your gardener but don't want it recording all the time).

 

 

There is no need to hate a tool. You can object to how they are being used, but there will always be use cases for tools, and it is up to people to decide how they can be used and if they feel like using them.

and all of those things don't require the internet

[Quackers101]

8 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

That reminds me of an IOT microwave that was made useless because of a bad firmware update, there is no reason why a microwave or fridge needs to connect to the internet.

very much like singleplayer games being forced with multiplayer/server connections.

some devices could benefit from them, but doesn't outweigh the bad stuff forced with it or if its forced to use it... which is just retarded and shouldn't be allowed.

[Arika]

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

There are massive power savings to be had by using an Internet connected thermostat. How much or little heat you need in your home is very dependent on the weather, which is every changing. It can also depend on things like if you are away from home or not. 

My air-conditioner already does this. And it's not internet connected. I can set on and off times, temperature limits and power saving mode for when I'm not in that room. Doesn't need internet.

 

2 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Maybe you want to close some curtains and turn the lights on at the same time? 

Maybe you want some light to turn on slightly if your baby starts screaming in the middle of the night?

Why does it need to be internet connected to do that?

I'm not against smart home stuff. I'm against all of it needing to be internet connected for no reason.

 

2 hours ago, LAwLz said:

A lot of IoT things are not necessarily connected to the Internet either.

Which us what I'm supporting with this matter release. If it let's things work without being internet connected, then It might make me consider smart devices.

 

2 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Turning on outdoor lights when the gate to your driveway opens up, but only if it's dark outside

You mean like my motion sensor lights that have existed for years?

 

2 hours ago, LAwLz said:

There is no need to hate a tool. You can object to how they are being used, but there will always be use cases for tools, and it is up to people to decide how they can be used and if they feel like using them.

I don't hate the tool. I hate the internet connection requirement forced on you when it could just as easily be local network only.

[LAwLz]

3 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

and all of those things don't require the internet

1) Some things does depending on how you want them to work.

2) Who said anything about Internet? Seriously, I feel like a lot of you people are really hung up on this "hurr durr it shouldn't connect to the Internet" argument and yet this news has nothing to do with that. This is for interoperability between devices, so that they can talk between each other. This is not a standard for reaching the Internet.

 

 

I feel like a lot of people these days goes around with a strong and irrational hatred for something, and as soon as that thing is mentioned they just have to shout and scream about the thing they don't like, regardless of whether its relevant or not.

I get it, you don't like that some IoT devices requires an Internet connection. What does that have to do with this news topic? 

 

 

Edit: Just noticed that someone did imply that these things requires Internet access for a reason. I can understand the thermostat but it is a bit harder to justify the lights, but I still see some benefits to it as described in the next post.

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, Arika S said:

My air-conditioner already does this. And it's not internet connected. I can set on and off times, temperature limits and power saving mode for when I'm not in that room. Doesn't need internet.

Manually setting on and off times is not the same as automatically adapting depending on the weather and current price of heating.

It's like saying we don't need computers because we got typewriters. Two very different things. 

Here is an example of what I am talking about, and I strongly recommend you watch the full video with an open mind before dismissing it:

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Arika S said:

Why does it need to be internet connected to do that?

I'm not against smart home stuff. I'm against all of it needing to be internet connected for no reason.

If we are arguing about the whole Internet requirement thing then the things I brought up are bad examples. But let's turn the question around.

Why shouldn't these things be connected? Yes I know about the security risks, but those are quite frankly overblown a lot of times but should hopefully get better as time goes on. If we assume perfect security, why shouldn't I be able to control the lights, AC, locks and other various things in my home from anywhere?

• Why shouldn't I be able to water my plants when I am on holiday?
• Why shouldn't I be able to check a security camera when I am at work?
• Why shouldn't my alarm be able to send notifications to an alarm center if someone breaks in?
• Why shouldn't I be able to check "did I turn the lights off in the basement" when I am on a train?
• Why shouldn't I be able to get a notification if someone opens my front gate when nobody should be entering my house?
• Why shouldn't I be able to monitor and configure all my things from one centralized place rather than one for the things that doesn't "need" to be connected online, and one for the things that in your opinion have a legitimate reason to be connected?
• Why shouldn't I be able to configure and set these things up while they are still in their boxes on a delivery truck on their way to my home? Why should I need to wait for them to arrive before configuring them? 

 

 

1 hour ago, Arika S said:

You mean like my motion sensor lights that have existed for years?

Yes, but less primitive which allows for more configurations and fewer false positives.