LTT Official Folding Month V (2022)

[Alex Atkin UK]

27 minutes ago, GOTSpectrum said:

Feel free to pay for mine  

 

But seriously, I'm not expecting to be amazing, but if no one runs the cards, there's no reason for F@H to work on making the card better. 

Well I would test it on Topaz Gigapixel too, its rather slow on a 1650 and crashes a lot on CPU under WINE.  Sounds like the RT and AI parts of the card are impressive, just not sure how the architecture works so if that has any indication on how OpenCL performs.

[GOTSpectrum]

1 minute ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

Well I would test it on Topaz Gigapixel too, its rather slow on a 1650 and crashes a lot on CPU under WINE.  Sounds like the RT and AI parts of the card are impressive, just not sure how the architecture works so if that has any indication on how OpenCL performs.

We will have to see then, when/if we get out hands on one

[Gorgon]

1 hour ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

Anyone planning to get an Intel A770 to see how it folds?

Looks like no FP64 Support see also this - so it likely won't work. I suspect also the OpenCL support won't be a priority for Intel as they have a LOT of work to do on the drivers for the much larger gaming community.

[GOTSpectrum]

7 minutes ago, Gorgon said:

Looks like no FP64 Support see also this - so it likely won't work. I suspect also the OpenCL support won't be a priority for Intel as they have a LOT of work to do on the drivers for the much larger gaming community.

Well that's it then, no Intel ARC for me... Shame 

 

 

[Baha]

The other big hangup for Arc GPUs, for me at least, is that there is no linux kernel support until version 6.0. That isn't likely to land in any stable linux distributions until sometime next year owing to having released a week ago.

 

I had been hoping to toss one into my server as a video encoder and leave it folding perpetually -- initial OpenCL benchmarks aren't looking bad, the A750 and A770 are landing just below and just above 3060 performance levels respectively -- but it's looking like a bad fit in the near term, if Folding even works at all.

[BiotechBen]

I'm tempted to see how folding goes with my phone, it's a 2020 flagship chip, 8 cores, decent clocks on 7/8 cores with one OC'd prime core. Passmark score is about half of my 2600X. 

 

Edit: F@H took down the mobile app and are working on another one but it will be ready "no time soon"

[Alex Atkin UK]

Ah well, my hope is to get a 4080 anyway, then my 3080 will go into my upscaling/folding box and the 2080 replace the 1650 - then not use them because our electricity bill is estimated to be £5700 for the next 12 months based on LAST YEARS folding.  That's £1068.81 more than last year.

 

That said, if I crank the power limit down on all the cards I would be able to fold as much while using less electricity and its not like I can just give up heat this winter.  Given my TV is only 120Hz and some of the games I play might get upgraded to DLSS 3.0, its likely I'd use less power in gaming too.

[BiotechBen]

12 minutes ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

Ah well, my hope is to get a 4080 anyway, then my 3080 will go into my upscaling/folding box and the 2080 replace the 1650 - then not use them because our electricity bill is estimated to be £5700 for the next 12 months based on LAST YEARS folding.  That's £1068.81 more than last year.

 

That said, if I crank the power limit down on all the cards I would be able to fold as much while using less electricity and its not like I can just give up heat this winter.  Given my TV is only 120Hz and some of the games I play might get upgraded to DLSS 3.0, its likely I'd use less power in gaming too.

Jesus, what is your energy cost per KwH?!

 

Mine is sitting squarely at $.13 (£.12) and I'm adding about $1 a day to my electricity bill while doing 200W of folding.

[Alex Atkin UK]

29 minutes ago, BiotechBen said:

Jesus, what is your energy cost per KwH?!

 

Mine is sitting squarely at $.13 (£.12) and I'm adding about $1 a day to my electricity bill while doing 200W of folding.

New rate is 35.738p, we could get a discount if paying by direct debit but that has a drawback where with food costs also increasing you absolutely do not want a variable fee coming out on a day you have no choice about.   As were both disabled, they can't cut us off for late payment.

Its insane to think a 4080 might actually be a good deal if its dramatically more efficient than the 3080.  I could maybe run it at half the power of the 3080 and still get good enough performance.  If I don't fold as much as last winter (after the event) and use more gas heating at 11.024p, this could work especially given the temporary cost of living payments from the government will shave off £1000.

 

The big drawback is being in rented housing we can't get solar panels, they would dramatically decrease the summer AC costs.

[GOTSpectrum]

4 minutes ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

New rate is 35.738p, we could get a discount if paying by direct debit but that has a drawback where with food costs also increasing you absolutely do not want a variable fee coming out on a day you have no choice about.   As were both disabled, they can't cut us off for late payment.

Its insane to think a 4080 might actually be a good deal if its dramatically more efficient than the 3080.  I could maybe run it at half the power of the 3080 and still get good enough performance.  If I don't fold as much as last winter (after the event) and use more gas heating at 11.024p, this could work especially given the temporary cost of living payments from the government will shave off £1000.

 

The big drawback is being in rented housing we can't get solar panels, they would dramatically decrease the summer AC costs.

I got the same cost... let's say this year folding month is going to hurt!! 

[Alex Atkin UK]

14 minutes ago, GOTSpectrum said:

I got the same cost... let's say this year folding month is going to hurt!! 

[justpoet]

Currently at ¢22/kwh + delivery charges.  Expecting around ¢50 shortly after the new year.  Not gonna be pretty here either.

[GOTSpectrum]

25 minutes ago, justpoet said:

Currently at ¢22/kwh + delivery charges.  Expecting around ¢50 shortly after the new year.  Not gonna be pretty here either.

Thank you for getting involved, especially because if I remember correctly, you are a CPU folder

[Gorgon]

1 hour ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

New rate is 35.738p, we could get a discount if paying by direct debit but that has a drawback where with food costs also increasing you absolutely do not want a variable fee coming out on a day you have no choice about.   As were both disabled, they can't cut us off for late payment.

Ouch!

Here in Eastern Ontario it's $0.082/kWh off-peak; $0.113/kWh mid peak and $0.17/kWh peak. or £0.054; £0.075 and £0.112 respectively. The higher rates are as they have to spin up Natural Gas Generators to meet peak demand but off-peak the Hydro-Electric and Nuclear Plants can meet the demand.

 

Nuclear is a ticking bomb as they haven't properly factored the cost of decommissioning the existing plants which are getting really old.

 

I just run a crontab to finish folding 1 1/2 hours before the rates go to mid-peak and then resume when the rates go back down to off-peak.

 

Don't try to run your 3080 at minimum power (125W) as it might fall off the cliff. Maximum efficiency is around 1300-1500MHz from my testing. Try:

nvidia-smi -i 0 -lgc 0,1440

which should keep you close to the sweet spot. My 3 are running that and drawing about 200-210W and yielding 6-6.5MPPD.

 

My 3070 is running at around 31kPPD/kW and my 2070supers around 21kPPD/W on the same WUs so Ampere is about 48% more efficient (less actually as the CUDA cores aren't 1:1 and the costs increased) at the sweet spot than Turing. Not as big of a jump as from Pascal to Turing which was closer to 100%.

[Alex Atkin UK]

54 minutes ago, Gorgon said:

Ouch!

Here in Eastern Ontario it's $0.082/kWh off-peak; $0.113/kWh mid peak and $0.17/kWh peak. or £0.054; £0.075 and £0.112 respectively. The higher rates are as they have to spin up Natural Gas Generators to meet peak demand but off-peak the Hydro-Electric and Nuclear Plants can meet the demand.

 

Nuclear is a ticking bomb as they haven't properly factored the cost of decommissioning the existing plants which are getting really old.

 

I just run a crontab to finish folding 1 1/2 hours before the rates go to mid-peak and then resume when the rates go back down to off-peak.

 

Don't try to run your 3080 at minimum power (125W) as it might fall off the cliff. Maximum efficiency is around 1300-1500MHz from my testing. Try:

nvidia-smi -i 0 -lgc 0,1440

which should keep you close to the sweet spot. My 3 are running that and drawing about 200-210W and yielding 6-6.5MPPD.

 

My 3070 is running at around 31kPPD/kW and my 2070supers around 21kPPD/W on the same WUs so Ampere is about 48% more efficient (less actually as the CUDA cores aren't 1:1 and the costs increased) at the sweet spot than Turing. Not as big of a jump as from Pascal to Turing which was closer to 100%.

The 3080 is on Windows and will remain so due to moving to my upscaler box, the 2080 will end up on Linux and not fold so much as I haven't figured how to stop it from using up 100% and making the OS lag.  But a bit of fiddling in Afterburner should do the trick when the time comes.

I had considered keeping the 1650 for display and have the 2080 as well in the same system, but that wastes something like 30W when idle?  As that would be 99% of the time, that seems a bad idea.  Its a a shame idle power on these cards isn't a lot lower.

[Shlouski]

29 minutes ago, Gorgon said:

Here in Eastern Ontario it's $0.082/kWh off-peak; $0.113/kWh mid peak and $0.17/kWh peak. or £0.054; £0.075 and £0.112 respectively

 

Your off and mid peak are nice.

 

I'm on a flat rate of $0.15/kWh, but I hope that will go down to $0/kWh when I get my solar .

 

3 hours ago, GOTSpectrum said:

Well that's it then, no Intel ARC for me... Shame 

 

I will still try to get my hands on one if I can figure out where to buy one, I'm sure I can find a use for it if folding isn't possible.

 

2 hours ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

New rate is 35.738p

 

Damn that's high, I really hope it drops back down asap. 

 

My electric also soared for a short time a while back, but luckily the government introduced electricity and fuel discounts, otherwise I would also be looking at an astronomical bill.

 

49 minutes ago, Gorgon said:

Maximum efficiency is around 1300-1500MHz from my testing

 

Now I'm at maximum electrical capacity I really need to get more efficient if I'm serious about getting more ppd.

 

I guessed that 30 series were most efficient around those frequencies, but I will have to go back and carry on that testing with HfM.net like you showed me so I can fine tune.

 

I really need to find a practical way of running multiple gpu's on one system. I have one system running 5 gpu's, a couple running two cards, and many systems running one card. I'm guessing that each system (excluding gpu's) is consuming around 50 to 100 watts, and this is really eating into my power budget.

 

 

[Gorgon]

5 minutes ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

The 3080 is on Windows and will remain so due to moving to my upscaler box, the 2080 will end up on Linux and not fold so much as I haven't figured how to stop it from using up 100% and making the OS lag.  But a bit of fiddling in Afterburner should do the trick when the time comes.

I had considered keeping the 1650 for display and have the 2080 as well in the same system, but that wastes something like 30W when idle?  As that would be 99% of the time, that seems a bad idea.  Its a a shame idle power on these cards isn't a lot lower.

Clock-limiting works on Windows as well as Linux.

 

Under Linux my 2000 and 3000-series cards drop to 6-12W when idle. Perhaps you might want to check your p-states. The exception is my 2070 Super Hybrids where they don't have fan stop for the 120mm fan on the radiator an/or don't slow down the pump when idle. Those run ~20W at idle.

 

I haven't figured how to stop it from using up 100% and making the OS lag

100% of What under Linux? It's a bit of work getting coolbits working for gpu over/under clocking but the nvidia-smi commands for power and clock-limiting work out-of the box once the driver is installed.

[justpoet]

1 hour ago, GOTSpectrum said:

Thank you for getting involved, especially because if I remember correctly, you are a CPU folder

Yep.  CPU crunch baby!  At least this year I'll have a 5700G instead of just a pile of old space heater Xeons from 2007 and 2010.

[Gorgon]

18 minutes ago, Shlouski said:

I really need to find a practical way of running multiple gpu's on one system. I have one system running 5 gpu's, a couple running two cards, and many systems running one card. I'm guessing that each system (excluding gpu's) is consuming around 50 to 100 watts, and this is really eating into my power budget.

50-100W is about right from what I see on my UPSes.

 

About the only practical method of running many GPUs is HEDT so x299 or Threadripper but the entry cost is steep and adding in the cost of ribbon risers etc and power supply shenanigans I figured that just sticking with x570 and 2 GPUs max per system had a lower over-all cost but at the expense of a higher system overhead.

 

It's costing me about $17/week for the Electricity to run my rigs during off-peak so recouping the investment in HEDT would take a long time. Last time I did the math running x570 with m.2 to PCIe break-out for up to 6 GPUs was still cheaper than a Threadripper build.

 

650-850W 80+ Gold Power Supplies are about the best bang for the buck. Moving to larger systems the 1000-1600W power supplies are much more expensive and adding 80+ Platinum/Titanium just make it less enticing. I do, however, wish I had access to 220V to be able to get a couple more % efficiency from the power supplies but while I could run them at 240V off the electrical Grid inexpensive 240V or 120/240V UPSes are not easy to find in North America.

[BiotechBen]

1 hour ago, Gorgon said:

Here in Eastern Ontario it's $0.082/kWh off-peak; $0.113/kWh mid peak and $0.17/kWh peak. or £0.054; £0.075 and £0.112 respectively. The higher rates are as they have to spin up Natural Gas Generators to meet peak demand but off-peak the Hydro-Electric and Nuclear Plants can meet the demand.

I'm in the greater Philadelphia area and with 2 nuclear power plants in the eastern half of the state (one with 2 of 3 reactors still in operation, and one with only 1 of 3 still in operation, electricity from nuclear is super cheap, and then we're also drowning in natural gas so natural gas electricity is cheap too, and there are 17 hydro plants with a combined 2000 megawatts of capacity, and then also a few small solar fields and the mountains in the northern half of the state being covered in windmills.) so that contributes to the $.13 kWh flat rate. That's also accounting for the duopoly that the greater metropolitan area suffers from.

[Alex Atkin UK]

27 minutes ago, Gorgon said:

100% of What under Linux? It's a bit of work getting coolbits working for gpu over/under clocking but the nvidia-smi commands for power and clock-limiting work out-of the box once the driver is installed.

When folding on the GPU, the UI turns into an 80s PC.  Maybe because I do not use KWin compositing (you'd kinda think the opposite tbh but then it depends what the GPU considers a priority I guess) as every time I've tried over the years I had stability issues with it.  I also still use Xorg due to drag and drop compatibility issues with Wayland.

 

Its just one of those things where when everything is working smoothly how you want it, kinda don't want to break it.

[Shlouski]

6 minutes ago, Gorgon said:

x299 or Threadripper but the entry cost is steep and adding in the cost of ribbon risers etc

 

Yeah I noticed this.

 

I guess my best option is still x570, gen 3 Ryzen, and bifurcated risers 4x4.

 

Bifurcated Riser X16 to 4X4 | PCIe Bifurcation Riser X16 to 4X4 (maxcloudon.com)

 

16 minutes ago, Gorgon said:

650-850W 80+ Gold Power Supplies are about the best bang for the buck

 

Agreed, I have be going for 850 watts.

 

I picked up these recently on offer:

 

 

I like the fact they come with power supply tester in the box:

 

 

23 minutes ago, Gorgon said:

wish I had access to 220V

 

Fortunately I'm on 230v, otherwise I would have run into trouble much earlier.

[Gorgon]

2 hours ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

When folding on the GPU, the UI turns into an 80s PC.  Maybe because I do not use KWin compositing (you'd kinda think the opposite tbh but then it depends what the GPU considers a priority I guess) as every time I've tried over the years I had stability issues with it.  I also still use Xorg due to drag and drop compatibility issues with Wayland.

 

Its just one of those things where when everything is working smoothly how you want it, kinda don't want to break it.

I haven't noticed any issues with desktop UI performance lag while folding on Ubuntu 18.04, 20.04 or 22.04 using GDK on Xorg which used to be the default but 22.04 is pushing Wayland, which I disable as it breaks things in general. Xorg is ancient but it (mostly) just works.

 

But then again my daily driver is still Windows as there's still a few apps I need but I hope to fix that over Christmas.

[Gorgon]

2 hours ago, Shlouski said:

Yeah I noticed this.

 

I guess my best option is still x570, gen 3 Ryzen, and bifurcated risers 4x4.

 

Bifurcated Riser X16 to 4X4 | PCIe Bifurcation Riser X16 to 4X4 (maxcloudon.com)

 

Agreed, I have be going for 850 watts.

 

I picked up these recently on offer:

 

Seasonic would be my preferred choice but I have so many Corsair power supplies that It would be hard to change as I like not having to worry about cable compatibility as mine are all Corsair Type 4 pin-outs. Corsair's a good runner up though their low end C-series should be avoided for 24x7 80% loading.

 

If your power or clock-limiting the GPUs you can also get away with much smaller Power Supplies as well. I have mostly 650 and 750W units I've picked up as they go on sale.

[BiotechBen]

3 hours ago, Gorgon said:

Seasonic would be my preferred choice but I have so many Corsair power supplies that It would be hard to change as I like not having to worry about cable compatibility as mine are all Corsair Type 4 pin-outs. Corsair's a good runner up though their low end C-series should be avoided for 24x7 80% loading.

 

If your power or clock-limiting the GPUs you can also get away with much smaller Power Supplies as well. I have mostly 650 and 750W units I've picked up as they go on sale.

I remember when seasonic used to have good value PSU's, 2020 was a good time. The PSU I have in my system now was ~90usd and it's on SALE for $100. Up until recently I'd seen it routinely going for upwards of 120usd