Intel introduces first new ATX Spec in nearly 20 years (ATX 3.0) with ATX12VO and 12+4-pin 12VHPWR connections- Just in time for RTX 3090ti next week

[ewitte]

On 3/24/2022 at 8:57 AM, Helpful Tech Wiard said:

Actually, having high efficency at low loads is something a lot of people need.

id rather not be paying hundreds a year from having my psu pull 300w when in sleep….

I don't see that as an issue sleep standard I believe are for less than 1w.  When my computer is sleeping the UPS says 0w.

[ewitte]

On 3/23/2022 at 7:50 PM, Caroline said:

Heh, why buy a space heater when you can buy a 600W graphics card.

I spent a lot of time on my 3080 with a custom curve and lowering the wattage (something like 220W with full performance) in the summer its almost unbearable under the desk.  Can't imagine how 600W will feel.  Although that was when I was mining 24/7.

[Dogzilla07]

Both the EVGA Kingpin Extreme and the Galax 3090 Ti HOF use 2x600w Gen5 connectors (shared design with 4080/4090 ?) TGP for both cards I think is 516W, and without OC, without shunt-mod they should top out as ~530W like the EVGA FTW3 Air cooler and MSI Suprim.

 

https://videocardz.com/newz/galax-launches-geforce-rtx-3090-ti-hof-with-dual-16-pin-power-connectors-and-up-to-516w-of-power

https://videocardz.com/newz/evga-geforce-rtx-3090-ti-kingpin-hybrid-revealed-dual-16-pin-power-connectors-and-an-oled-screen

 

[Deadpool2onBlu-Ray]

5 minutes ago, Dogzilla07 said:

Both the EVGA Kingpin Extreme and the Galax 3090 Ti HOF use 2x600w Gen5 connectors (shared design with 4080/4090 ?) TGP for both cards I think is 516W, and without OC, shunt-mod they should top out as ~530W like the EVGA FTW3 Air cooler and MSI Suprim.

 

https://videocardz.com/newz/galax-launches-geforce-rtx-3090-ti-hof-with-dual-16-pin-power-connectors-and-up-to-516w-of-power

https://videocardz.com/newz/evga-geforce-rtx-3090-ti-kingpin-hybrid-revealed-dual-16-pin-power-connectors-and-an-oled-screen

 

Holy..... So you will need 6x8 pin PCIE to 2x16pin to power these monstrosities 

[Dogzilla07]

6 minutes ago, Ryan829 said:

Holy..... So you will need 6x8 pin PCIE to 2x16pin to power these monstrosities 

These 2 (LAB OC and Kingpin) are dedicated OC (the previous 3080 Ti LAB OC was the only 1000W unlocked card from the factory). So without OC/shunt-mod I doubt both cables are needed (though probably at-most 1 additional 8-pin on the dongle, as OC wise it should go higher than 530W (as it looks like the 3x8-pin dongle doesn't allow 600w on one cable out of the box).

 

Though I doubt even overclockers will bother with 2 dongles and 6 damn 8 pin cables. A Gen5 unreleased PSU is gonna be very welcome xD. There's rumors of a possible RTX 4000 series 4x cable 8-pin dongle as well.

 

 

[Deadpool2onBlu-Ray]

10 minutes ago, Dogzilla07 said:

These 2 (LAB OC and Kingpin) are dedicated OC (the previous 3080 Ti LAB OC was the only 1000W unlocked card from the factory). So without OC/shunt-mod I doubt both cables are needed (though probably at-most 1 additional 8-pin on the dongle, as OC wise it should go higher than 530W (as it looks like the 3x8-pin dongle doesn't allow 600w on one cable out of the box).

 

Though I doubt even overclockers will bother with 2 dongles and 6 damn 8 pin cables. A Gen5 unreleased PSU is gonna be very welcome xD. There's rumors of a possible RTX 4000 series 4x cable 8-pin dongle as well.

 

 

I have a feeling that the gen 5 power supplies are late. There are the MSI and Gigabyte ones that are "released" but not available anywhere. And they don't have the new atx12vo standard, only the 16pin pcie5 cable. EVGA JUST released their new p3 line of power supplies in October that are atx 2.0 and don't have the 16 pin pcie5 connector. I have a feeling it is going to be dongle time for a while. Also something I noticed that is kind of scummy. The new 1200p3 has been 219$ since release, but now EVGA raised it to $250 because they assume 3090ti owners will need a new high power psu. $250 on amazon as well. Shame on you EVGA for capitalizing on the market. 

[Dogzilla07]

FSP, Asus and Cooler Master Gen5 are also "released". As for the atx12vo there's only the 2 pre-built from MSI that I mentioned above in this thread. It does make practical sense. atx12vo is not a physical limitation due to physics, it's a "green goal". and Gen5 is byproduct of extraordinary needs, which are in turn byproduct of stagnated moore's law, which is a byproduct of physics limitations in R&D.

[Deadpool2onBlu-Ray]

4 minutes ago, Dogzilla07 said:

FSP, Asus and Cooler Master Gen5 are also also "released"

Meh. I want an EVGA/Corsair/Superflower/Seasonic one. I currently have a 750p2 and I am cutting it really close with my 3070ti/12600k. I am afraid if I slot in a 13900k, I will have stability issues even if I do not upgrade my gpu. I want a 1200w one but I refuse to buy one without the new PCIE gen 5 connector. Even if new motherboards (zen 4/raptor lake/meteor lake, etc.),  have atx12vo instead of 24 pin atx cables, that is just a simple adapter. I refuse to have 3 or more 8 pin cables chilling(or should i say restricting airflow) in the back of my system if I can avoid it. 

[Quackers101]

1 hour ago, Dogzilla07 said:

Both the EVGA Kingpin Extreme and the Galax 3090 Ti HOF use 2x600w Gen5 connectors (shared design with 4080/4090 ?) TGP for both cards I think is 516W, and without OC, without shunt-mod they should top out as ~530W like the EVGA FTW3 Air cooler and MSI Suprim.

do hope higher rated W cards, is able to deal with the heat load. already some are struggling with the current rating and if they can create more surface area between chip to cooler? *becomes dual chip design that is very chippy*

[Deadpool2onBlu-Ray]

Just now, Quackers101 said:

do hope higher rated W cards, is able to deal with the heat load. already some struggles for some of them and if they can create more surface area between chip to cooler?

*becomes dual chip design that is very chippy*

Apparently the high end 4000 series cards Nvidia had to gimp a bit because they couldn't keep 500/600w of heat under control without watercooling them. They won't make a Founders Watercooled card because Founders are MSRP and they want that to be an attractive price. AIO cards are usually like 100 bucks more

[Dogzilla07]

@Quackers101It's gonna depend on the case and fan setup, computerbase testing was toasty in the case, while HardwareUnboxed was fine in Corsair 5000D. As for dual chips, yeah I also can't wait to see how the 8,9 heatpipe vapor chambers +2kg heatsinks are gonna be able to handle the new MCM designs.

 

@Ryan829The cooler for MSI 3090 Ti Suprim together with 2x Noctua A12x25 can handle 550-600w NP as is evident by the 3090 Ti reviews/testing handling 530W with no issues like a champ. Just that it becomes 5.3 slot at that point, and most cases and airflow setups won't be able to handle it.

 

That's why Custom Liquid Cooling is easier, no need to optimize airflow patters, nor mod the case in an ugly way. Just chug in a couple of rads, some great static pressure fans, and voila, done. No hot air pockets, no vortex problems.

 

Asus/Noctua said new Noctua-cooled GPU cards are incoming, so lets see what they bring us xD

[Elisis]

4 hours ago, Ryan829 said:

EVGA JUST released their new p3 line of power supplies in October that are atx 2.0 and don't have the 16 pin pcie5 connector. I have a feeling it is going to be dongle time for a while. Also something I noticed that is kind of scummy. The new 1200p3 has been 219$ since release, but now EVGA raised it to $250 because they assume 3090ti owners will need a new high power psu. $250 on amazon as well. Shame on you EVGA for capitalizing on the market. 

I don't think EVGA knows enough about PSUs to be malicious with regards to their market 

[Deadpool2onBlu-Ray]

19 minutes ago, Elisis said:

I don't think EVGA knows enough about PSUs to be malicious with regards to their market 

It just seems like convenient timing for the "instant rebate" to expire that's all. 

[AnonymousGuy]

4 hours ago, Ryan829 said:

Meh. I want an EVGA/Corsair/Superflower/Seasonic one. I currently have a 750p2 and I am cutting it really close with my 3070ti/12600k.

Doubt you're using more than about 500W, really.  My desktop fits in 850W with a shunted 3090 mining and a 12900K running OCCT, which isn't even a "realistic" load either.

[AnonymousGuy]

5 hours ago, Dogzilla07 said:

Both the EVGA Kingpin Extreme and the Galax 3090 Ti HOF use 2x600w Gen5 connectors (shared design with 4080/4090 ?) TGP for both cards I think is 516W, and without OC, without shunt-mod they should top out as ~530W like the EVGA FTW3 Air cooler and MSI Suprim.

 

https://videocardz.com/newz/galax-launches-geforce-rtx-3090-ti-hof-with-dual-16-pin-power-connectors-and-up-to-516w-of-power

https://videocardz.com/newz/evga-geforce-rtx-3090-ti-kingpin-hybrid-revealed-dual-16-pin-power-connectors-and-an-oled-screen

 

 

Sigh...it's turning into a dick measurement of how many power pins you have, much like how many 9999 phases of power delivery you have when your TDP is 300W but the VRM section is 4000W.  Meanwhile I'm drawing 650W on 2x8pin and it's fine...doesn't even get the cables or connectors hot under FLIR.  Ironically this new connector shit is just going to lead to everyone using adapter cables which increase the resistance in the path (because the connectors are always the weakpoint, not the wires themselves).

[Deadpool2onBlu-Ray]

4 minutes ago, AnonymousGuy said:

Sigh...it's turning into a dick measurement of how many power pins you have, much like how many 9999 phases of power delivery you have when your TDP is 300W but the VRM section is 4000W.  Meanwhile I'm drawing 650W on 2x8pin and it's fine...doesn't even get the cables or connectors hot under FLIR.  Ironically this new connector shit is just going to lead to everyone using adapter cables which increase the resistance in the path (because the connectors are always the weakpoint, not the wires themselves).

I don't like having adapter either. That is why I am using this cable for my 3070ti FE. https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=100-NK-3000-B9

[Falkentyne]

On 3/24/2022 at 9:48 AM, jonnyGURU said:

That's still not a need.  That's a nice to have.  

Jonny,

What about the PSUs that already have the 12 pin cable (that connects to 2x8 pin from the PSU), e.g. Seasonic PSUs with their Micro-fit 3.0 cable?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Falkentyne said:

Jonny,

What about the PSUs that already have the 12 pin cable (that connects to 2x8 pin from the PSU), e.g. Seasonic PSUs with their Micro-fit 3.0 cable?

You can use that for 3090 Ti.  But since it lacks the two sense pins, it will throttle a 40 series card to 150W.

 

[jagdtigger]

5 hours ago, jonnyGURU said:

You can use that for 3090 Ti.  But since it lacks the two sense pins, it will throttle a 40 series card to 150W.

 

Which is totally pointless, if the psu cant deliver it just shuts down....

[Spotty]

3 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

Which is totally pointless, if the psu cant deliver it just shuts down....

Well, not necessarily.

What happens normally if your PSU is incapable of providing enough power to a system is it will trip over current protection or over power protection and the power supply will shut off, resulting in the system turning off. The system (including the graphics card) doesn't know how much power the PSU can deliver so it will just draw as much power as it needs until the system turns off.

What the new 12VHPWR connector does is by using those additional pins on the cable tells the graphics card how much power the graphics card can draw from the power supply over the cable, the graphics card then locks itself to a lower power mode forcing it to not exceed that power draw. If the graphics card limits itself in how much power it can draw the GPU will run much slower as it can't hit the higher P-states and high clock speeds but it shouldn't shut down unexpectedly.

 

I imagine the 3090Ti's and possibly future 40 series cards will come with a 12VHPWR adapter since there's not any PSUs on the market that include them yet, so you'd be better off just using the adapter with standard 8pin PCIe cables instead of trying to use the Nvidia 12pin cable. I believe the adapter cables with 3x PCIe 8pin to 12VHPWER will be limited to 450W.

 

8 hours ago, jonnyGURU said:

You can use that for 3090 Ti.  But since it lacks the two sense pins, it will throttle a 40 series card to 150W.

150W per cable. Should be 225W for the card including the PCIe slot, right? And I'm assuming if the card has two 12VHPWR connectors like some of the 3090Ti cards have the graphics card total board power limit could be as high as 375W without any of the sense wires present if both cables are plugged in.

[jagdtigger]

18 minutes ago, Spotty said:

Well, not necessarily.

Yes, it is. PSU trips on overload -> change psu. GPU slower than it should be -> normies will get confused where is the issue. Its pointless to try and build protection against human stupidity and definitely no need for a new standard to implement it.

As for power savings AFAIK there is not much of a difference between regular ATX and 12V0, the only difference is in case of 12V0 they moved some PSU parts onto the mobo so they can cheat and claim better efficiency on the PSU.

Edited March 30, 2022 by jagdtigger

[Hairless Monkey Boy]

On 3/23/2022 at 8:35 PM, Quackers101 said:

as in 10 > x (is less than x) or 10 < x (is more than x).

Didn't see anyone else touch this so I will.

 

10 > X  :: 10 is greater than X.

10 < X :: 10 is less than X.

 

FTFY

[Deadpool2onBlu-Ray]

4 hours ago, Spotty said:

Well, not necessarily.

What happens normally if your PSU is incapable of providing enough power to a system is it will trip over current protection or over power protection and the power supply will shut off, resulting in the system turning off. The system (including the graphics card) doesn't know how much power the PSU can deliver so it will just draw as much power as it needs until the system turns off.

What the new 12VHPWR connector does is by using those additional pins on the cable tells the graphics card how much power the graphics card can draw from the power supply over the cable, the graphics card then locks itself to a lower power mode forcing it to not exceed that power draw. If the graphics card limits itself in how much power it can draw the GPU will run much slower as it can't hit the higher P-states and high clock speeds but it shouldn't shut down unexpectedly.

 

I imagine the 3090Ti's and possibly future 40 series cards will come with a 12VHPWR adapter since there's not any PSUs on the market that include them yet, so you'd be better off just using the adapter with standard 8pin PCIe cables instead of trying to use the Nvidia 12pin cable. I believe the adapter cables with 3x PCIe 8pin to 12VHPWER will be limited to 450W.

 

150W per cable. Should be 225W for the card including the PCIe slot, right? And I'm assuming if the card has two 12VHPWR connectors like some of the 3090Ti cards have the graphics card total board power limit could be as high as 375W without any of the sense wires present if both cables are plugged in.

The PCI5 Power Supplies seem really late to me. Seems like a giant missed opportunity by the manufacturers to get new 3090ti owners to buy a new psu too

[Falkentyne]

20 hours ago, jonnyGURU said:

You can use that for 3090 Ti.  But since it lacks the two sense pins, it will throttle a 40 series card to 150W.

 

Thank you for the information.  Glad to see the Seasonic micro-fit cable will still work on a 3090 Ti.

Seasonic replied in email saying they are developing ATX 3.0 spec PSU's and they will be announced at a later time.

 

I guess shunt mods will be a thing of the past on a 4090 card, huh

[Deadpool2onBlu-Ray]

Just now, Falkentyne said:

Thank you for the information.  Glad to see the Seasonic micro-fit cable will still work on a 3090 Ti.

Seasonic replied in email saying they are developing ATX 3.0 spec PSU's and they will be announced at a later time.

 

I guess shunt mods will be a thing of the past on a 4090 card, huh

 That is not good at all. "developing, announced later time" sounds like they won't even come out this year in time for Zen 4 and Raptor Lake.