GPD Claims Steam Deck is Worse than Win 3 and is Closed Platform. Users Call GPD’s Statement Shameful.

[CerealExperimentsLain]

3 hours ago, Error 52 said:

There is some truth to the fact that Valve is very intentionally undercutting their competitors here in a way that doesn't really let them fight back - at least as of yet - but boy howdy "If you install Windows you can run pirated games" is certainly a statement to be making.

Valve isn't intentionally undercutting, because Valve doesn't compete against any of these machines.  If any other hand held PC is successful, it becomes another machine that is likely to have Steam installed on it and Valve gets 30% of every game sold on Steam.

 

Valve has cut the price of the Steam Deck to the bone, because that's the only price tag most gamers will swallow.  The other devices are in 'luxury device' territory.  They're in the $900-$1300 range.  The Steam Deck is less than half that for the base unit.  I would not consider buying the Steam Deck if it cost what these devices cost and it's also why I was never interested owning one of those devices before the Steam Deck was even announced; They cost too much to justify.  But people are hyped about the Steam Deck, even hoards of traditional console users are hyped about it, that means new users to buy games on Steam.  That means money for Valve.  This is all about selling games, the Steam Deck is just a means to an end, but it needed a price that more than a rich or stupid extreme minority would pay.

[IkeaGnome]

3 minutes ago, CerealExperimentsLain said:

They cost too much to justify.  But people are hyped about the Steam Deck, even hoards of traditional console users are hyped about it, that means new users to buy games on Steam.  That means money for Valve.  This is all about selling games, the Steam Deck is just a means to an end, but it needed a price that more than a rich or stupid extreme minority would pay.

I wouldn't be too surprised to hear the costs on the Deck are more than they sell it for. 

This just takes us back to the old console pricing. Sell console for loss, get more people to buy them. Use the games to turn a profit on the ecosystem. 

If this is what they are doing, they very well can. The other companies, like Aya Neo don't have the ecosystem to recoup losses on the console sales. 

[CerealExperimentsLain]

Just now, IkeaGnome said:

I wouldn't be too surprised to hear the costs on the Deck are more than they sell it for. 

This just takes us back to the old console pricing. Sell console for loss, get more people to buy them. Use the games to turn a profit on the ecosystem. 

If this is what they are doing, they very well can. The other companies, like Aya Neo don't have the ecosystem to recoup losses on the console sales. 

Yup, only Steam has the unique position where every other PC is also a machine that can run Steam and thus sell Steam games.  So any 'Handheld PC' competitor, they compete against Valve's machine while Valve is like 'I hope you do well, and everyone has fun using Steam on your machine. :3' Every new PC sold is good for Valve.

[Jaxseven]

2 minutes ago, CerealExperimentsLain said:

Valve has cut the price of the Steam Deck to the bone, because that's the only price tag most gamers will swallow.  The other devices are in 'luxury device' territory.  They're in the $900-$1300 range.  The Steam Deck is less than half that for the base unit.

I definitely agree with everything you said. The price for my unit was roughly $950 (which would've been $1300+ if I wasn't a backer) and it was a hard sell for me but my biggest driving force was my massive Steam and emulation library. I have many games that will never come to the Switch and even if they did most likely they'll retail for $60 when I already own them but cannot play them in a format that is more convenient.

 

Along with that, the thought of being able to whip out a handheld PC (a powerful one at that) on the fly for whatever I need seemed really cool. I love my iPad but hate the artificial limitations of iPadOS and I don't like to carry much with me so having my iPad and Win 3 covers basically every computing need I have in an albeit least practical way. I think there will be some edge cases for other users these other devices will fill and the customer base for these micro PCs were already such a small niche I don't really see the Steam Deck stealing that many people away from those companies.

[CerealExperimentsLain]

5 minutes ago, Jaxseven said:

Along with that, the thought of being able to whip out a handheld PC (a powerful one at that) on the fly for whatever I need seemed really cool. I love my iPad but hate the artificial limitations of iPadOS and I don't like to carry much with me so having my iPad and Win 3 covers basically every computing need I have in an albeit least practical way. I think there will be some edge cases for other users these other devices will fill and the customer base for these micro PCs were already such a small niche I don't really see the Steam Deck stealing that many people away from those companies.

Totally agree.  This is more about the people saw a YouTube video of an AyaXNeo or GPD and went 'Ooooo' then saw the price tag and said 'Nope'.  (I'm def one of these).  When Valve announced their price on the other hand, I realized, yeah, that's in the range I'm willing to spend.  Had a reservation 15mins after it opened.  And there's gonna be loooooots of people like that.

[Mark Kaine]

3 minutes ago, CerealExperimentsLain said:

Valve has cut the price of the Steam Deck to the bone, because that's the only price tag most gamers will swallow. 

Isnt that kinda agreeing with what you quoted?

 

So they might not intentionally undercut the "competition" but it seems they're definitely undercutting the price. And they have to if they learned anything from consoles. This is about selling games and expanding the market, and well, i think its cheap enough to think Valve isnt going to make a lot of money with hw sales.

 

So, yeah, not necessarily intentional, but they are undercutting (most) of the competition (which they can because  they have the funds to do so, at least short term)

 

9 minutes ago, CerealExperimentsLain said:

This is all about selling games, the Steam Deck is just a means to an end

precisely, and again as per above thats what consoles do and the deck's "competition" doesnt have that luxury, they're just selling a custom handheld, with nothing much else (no gaming platform / store / etc)

 

Its definitely not a "fair" fight, but I do wonder what all these GPD XP/Vista and Aya Ne(o) were even fighting for to begin with. Valves strat makes a lot more sense, im just not expecting long term commitment due to past endeavours, I mean they couldnt even support the mildly successful Steam "controller" long term (and "Steam machines" arent forgotten by me either)

 

[IkeaGnome]

29 minutes ago, CerealExperimentsLain said:

Yup, only Steam has the unique position where every other PC is also a machine that can run Steam and thus sell Steam games.  So any 'Handheld PC' competitor, they compete against Valve's machine while Valve is like 'I hope you do well, and everyone has fun using Steam on your machine. :3' Every new PC sold is good for Valve.

For sure. Figure it costs $800 to make the $1300 Win 3. They have $500 in gross profit ( I don't know any of the margins on this market, just using basic numbers). 

Steam might pay $750 to make the Steam Deck if it had the exact same hardware due to numbers. Buy more pay less. Sell it for $649(512GB model vs 1tb of the Win 3). Lose $100 on the console.

Take 30% of the sales on Steam. Get one person to change from console and they have to build their library again. 5 AAA games and you've broke even. If they buy 10, they then break even on that person and the one you or I bought where we didn't have to buy games for the console. (I am calling the Win 3 and Steam Deck consoles. That's what they are. They aren't a computer or laptop imo).

28 minutes ago, CerealExperimentsLain said:

When Valve announced their price on the other hand, I realized, yeah, that's in the range I'm willing to spend.  Had a reservation 15mins after it opened.  And there's gonna be loooooots of people like that.

If my life plans were where they are now when reservations opened, I would have gotten one. For the commuting to and from work I do now, Switch does just fine(90 minutes of flights every 2 weeks). However, my moving plans got bumped up a lot. Now it looks like by winter I'll be working here in Alaska, but commuting from Norway(15 hours or so of flights every 2 weeks). Switch will still do just fine, but being able to play other games would be nice on those plane rides. I haven't looked to see how far out the preorders are yet though. 

18 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

Its definitely not a "fair" fight, but I do wonder what all these GPD XP/Vista and Aya Ne(o) were even fighting for to begin with.

I have a feeling they were fighting for a cash grab that they didn't think would get big enough to get Steam's attention. Steam has the infrastructure to back up their product if they chose to not let it go by the way of the Steam Controller. 

Steam/Valve also have the bonus of being a name known to people who don't play tons of computer games. Before the Deck got announced I had never heard of more than half of these companies making hand held computer consoles. They also have the bonus of not needing funding from an Indiegogo or other crowd funding.

Which is easier to get parents/grandparents to help buy for Christmas? Big name brand that they might even have heard of before, or backing on a crowd funding site that might not come to fruition and has no guarantees of you getting your money back.

I'm not disagreeing with you here, just giving my 0.02

[Mark Kaine]

51 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

Steam has the infrastructure to back up their product if they chose to not let it go by the way of the Steam Controller. 

Yeah, but thats the thing, i think ultimately thats not the plan, unlike consoles (especially Sony and Nintendo) Steam doesnt *need* this to be successful, this is more or less just throwing stuff at the wall and see what sticks… As i said I expect them to support a device like this for longer *if* it is hugely successful, otherwise it just doesnt make a lot of sense for them to do so - and thats likely the problem, these things  typically stay niche, which makes them kinda pointless (outside the whole trying to see what sticks thing) imo.

[Quackers101]

Not sure if we already have a thread on this...

old news?

 

there will be some issues around the steam deck, but it wouldn't be a closed platform or system. as for the OS, you might not do much but you would be allowed to download from a browser to any other system you want? like maybe an dual boot or something, but if one could play with steam OS in a VM? oh geez louise.

also how many FPS steam OS might give from not running windows?

[williamcll]

This is why Linus' GPD reviews on Bilibili gets panned frequently.

[LAwLz]

BREAKING NEWS!
A company says their product is better than the competitor!

[suicidalfranco]

Well it's China, piracy over there is still as common as breathing. Just like ignoring patents.

[Brooksie359]

11 hours ago, Jaxseven said:

I bought my Win 3 to play my 1000+ Steam Library on the go in a more convenient method than a laptop. From my experience gaming laptops do not lend themselves well to certain situations like commuting or long hospital stays and for me the latter is a far more common occurrence than for most. I also didn't want to continue buying games for Switch I already own and some Switch ports are just no good. I'm pretty confident Valve would have some service to replace the Steam Deck batteries so I'm sure the device would last longer than 3 years.

Honestly switches best games are ones that were built for it. Ports can be ok but it will never be as good as a game that was designed to run on the Switch like breath of the wild or some of the Pokemon games.

[CyanideInsanity]

15 hours ago, Kisai said:

A desktop or laptop is a far better experience, will last substantially longer, and won't have proprietary parts that you'll never be able to replace when it breaks

 

Neither of those are pocketable (compared to gpd's win devices), and laptops are unwieldy for kbm and literally don't include a controller. Sure a laptop has a considerably higher chance of a properly replaceable battery than these handheld devices, but without a surface to put it on, good luck gaming on it. These devices serve a niche that laptops kind of don't, and even further gpd has served a niche of that niche with typically pocketable devices in the win 1-3 devices.

[Kisai]

2 hours ago, CyanideInsanity said:

Neither of those are pocketable (compared to gpd's win devices), and laptops are unwieldy for kbm and literally don't include a controller. Sure a laptop has a considerably higher chance of a properly replaceable battery than these handheld devices, but without a surface to put it on, good luck gaming on it. These devices serve a niche that laptops kind of don't, and even further gpd has served a niche of that niche with typically pocketable devices in the win 1-3 devices.

These devices are way too huge to be "pocketable". The Nintendo Switch isn't even pocketable. Hell, MOST smartphones are not pocketable. Unless you're wearing cargo pants from the 90's, good luck.

 

Again, my argument is not that "these devices suck", it's that "these devices are a solution looking for a problem that doesn't exist."

 

"I want to game on the run" - Mobile phone

"I want to play PC games on the run" - Laptop, maybe with a controller

"I want to actually enjoy playing games" - Desktop PC, Nintendo switch with the pro controller, PS4/PS5, or Xbox One/Series X/S

 

Literately "Microsoft designed the Series S to easily fit inside of a small bag or backpack for portability and travel usage"

 

PC games overwhelming are designed to be played with the keyboard, because the keyboard is the only standard input device on the PC. Game controllers have been a thing since inception (remember the 15-pin gameport that also doubled as a midi port?) , but it wasn't until Microsoft created the Xbox 360 did the PC ever get a standard USB controller and button layout. A layout, need I remind people, was basically just ripping off the Nintendo SNES pad, just like Sony before it. Sony's innovation was the "twinstick" analog controls.

 

The Win3 does not have games designed for it. None.

 

The Steamdeck doesn't have games designed for it, but has instead relied on Proton and controller mapping to give some semblance of controller input.

 

I think the irony is that Portal and Portal 2 have been announced for the Nintendo Switch, before they have made them native SteamDeck games. Hello Valve? Release everything you ever made natively on the damn thing and then finally give us Halflife 3.

 

[ravenshrike]

18 hours ago, Kisai said:

You buy a SteamDeck or a Win3, and you'll be bin'ing it March 30 2025 when the battery dies

Per GN the SD has very good battery management when charging. So if you're not constantly draining it to 0 it should last linger than 3 years.

[suicidalfranco]

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

"I want to play PC games on the run" - Laptop, maybe with a controller

but somehow a laptop is pocketable?

i didn't put my 3ds or vita in the pocket, but i'd still carry them around and play on the go

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

these devices are a solution looking for a problem that doesn't exist."

there is a problem that does exist: "how can i more easily access my steam library?"

enter the handheld pc

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

I want to game on the run" - Mobile phone

mobile games suck

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

Literately "Microsoft designed the Series S to easily fit inside of a small bag or backpack for portability and travel usage"

sure go ahead do that, i'll sit here and watch. Haven't gone to circus for a long time. that might be the most entertaining thing i'll watch

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

"I want to actually enjoy playing games" - Desktop PC, Nintendo switch with the pro controller, PS4/PS5, or Xbox One/Series X/S

sure, if you have the time to be at home, sited in front of your desk, or tv. But that's not the case for everyone now is it

 

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

These devices are way too huge to be "pocketable". The Nintendo Switch isn't even pocketable. Hell, MOST smartphones are not pocketable. Unless you're wearing cargo pants from the 90's, good luck

with a limited selection of games, that might not suit everyone taste buds plus you still need a monitor or tv to hook it up to

 

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

C games overwhelming are designed to be played with the keyboard, because the keyboard is the only standard input device on the PC.

and valve has managed to solve that with the steam controller, the hw might have died but the API has remained and evolved for the better. there's a lot of merit to it when even RTS or classic tab target MMOs are able to be played with it

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

Game controllers have been a thing since inception (remember the 15-pin gameport that also doubled as a midi port?) , but it wasn't until Microsoft created the Xbox 360 did the PC ever get a standard USB controller and button layout. A layout, need I remind people, was basically just ripping off the Nintendo SNES pad, just like Sony before it. Sony's innovation was the "twinstick" analog controls.

pointless tangent that serve no purpose to the discussion

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

The Win3 does not have games designed for it. None.

it's a PC, it has a lot of game designed for it

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

The Steamdeck doesn't have games designed for it, but has instead relied on Proton and controller mapping to give some semblance of controller input.

it's a PC, it has a lot of game designed for it.

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

I think the irony is that Portal and Portal 2 have been announced for the Nintendo Switch, before they have made them native SteamDeck games

cause there's no need to rewrite something that already works.

 

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

Hello Valve? Release everything you ever made natively on the damn thing and then finally give us Halflife 3.

they already work on it, no need to pull a rockstar and re-release a game when what you got already works.

half life 3 is a dead meme, move on with your life

[Jaxseven]

25 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

i didn't put my 3ds or vita in the pocket, but i'd still carry them around and play on the go

I will say one perk to the Win 3 is the size. It's fairly close to the size of the Switch Lite (though much thicker and heavier) and fits nicely in a very small sling bag I have. Still doesn't outweigh my issues with the device, but the size is one thing I'll miss when I switch to the Steam Deck.

[CyanideInsanity]

2 hours ago, Kisai said:

These devices are way too huge to be "pocketable". The Nintendo Switch isn't even pocketable. Hell, MOST smartphones are not pocketable. Unless you're wearing cargo pants from the 90's, good luck.

 

I guess if you wear skinny jeans, or something specifically with small pockets. My g8x, win 2, and switch lite each fit perfectly inside my denim pants pockets.

 

Honestly though it seems like you're looking at these devices with a console user's pov. Not having games specifically tailored to the specs is an irrelevant point for myself.

 

Also because I just remembered about it, technically the gpd win 1 actually does have a game designed for it; Durante helped port The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel to pc with the win 1 as the minimum spec. Not trying to prove a point, but just because there technically is at least one game designed for a gpd win device.

[GhostRoadieBL]

No company wants to try and compete with massive undercuts. Valve being the biggest game store in history and has already secured a monopoly on game sales (epic can't keep up), and now their expansion into hardware is great to see as a consumer but also the slippery slope we've seen all over the industry.

Nintendo's anti-consumer practices, Apple's ecosystem (now getting better), Nvidia's recent inflation in msrp, it all adds up to less choice when the company makes a change to how people are "allowed to use the devices" they own.

I'll call it now, there will be steamdeck exclusive titles coming.

[Middcore]

45 minutes ago, GhostRoadieBL said:

Valve being the biggest game store in history and has already secured a monopoly on game sales (epic can't keep up)

 

Shh. You're not supposed to say stuff like this because then it makes things awkward for people who still want to be butthurt at Epic's existence. 

[GhostRoadieBL]

Just now, Middcore said:

 

Shh. You're not supposed to say stuff like this because then it makes things awkward for people who still want to be butthurt at Epic's existence. 

I'll stop saying it when people stop comparing it to Apple and Nintendo in different markets

[Blademaster91]

53 minutes ago, GhostRoadieBL said:

No company wants to try and compete with massive undercuts. Valve being the biggest game store in history and has already secured a monopoly on game sales (epic can't keep up), and now their expansion into hardware is great to see as a consumer but also the slippery slope we've seen all over the industry.

Nintendo's anti-consumer practices, Apple's ecosystem (now getting better), Nvidia's recent inflation in msrp, it all adds up to less choice when the company makes a change to how people are "allowed to use the devices" they own.

I'll call it now, there will be steamdeck exclusive titles coming.

Oh the "steam is a monopoly" argument....How does Valve have a monopoly when you can still use whatever other game service you want? If anything Epic chooses not to compete while having a monopoly over their store, ironically similar to how apple controls their iOS store, you can only use their store on the platform they choose.

I also don't see how having another choice as being anything less, the GPD handhelds were never any competition to the Switch, or even mobile gaming. I'd much rather buy a Steam Deck than join some kickstarter for a $1000 handheld which might not even the device people funding it will end up getting, as described earlier by the OP.

[GhostRoadieBL]

25 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

How does Valve have a monopoly when you can still use whatever other game service you want?

What you seem to be saying is that the vast  majority of games on steam are available on other sites, this simply isn't true. The major AAA titles, sure you can find them on a few other sites but the vast majority of games on there are indie games or titles you can't get anywhere else.

CD project red is their nearest competition with GOG but they are in a different market segment of legacy titles

 

I'd rather buy a steamdeck too but if it means they sell under the value of the components so no one can compete, that's an anti-competition move of a monopoly

[Blademaster91]

17 minutes ago, GhostRoadieBL said:

What you seem to be saying is that the vast  majority of games on steam are available on other sites, this simply isn't true. The major AAA titles, sure you can find them on a few other sites but the vast majority of games on there are indie games or titles you can't get anywhere else.

CD project red is their nearest competition with GOG but they are in a different market segment of legacy titles

I think it depends of the AAA titles you would want to play but theres other choices besides Steam, Steam has the majority because their service works well and has all the features people want. IMO the Epic store is significantly worse as the AAA games there are only available on the EGS store because publishers took the money and pulled their games from Steam. I don't want to download another launcher, especially one last I checked doesn't even have a shopping cart, download manager, or a friends list and chat.

17 minutes ago, GhostRoadieBL said:

I'd rather buy a steamdeck too but if it means they sell under the value of the components so no one can compete, that's an anti-competition move of a monopoly

If the prices make the Steam deck an anti-competitive monopoly, then that makes Sony and Microsoft monopolies for selling consoles at a loss, compared to the price of buying a gaming PC. I doubt Valve is undercutting the price on purpose, they had to price their console at a price people can accept, it can't be more expensive than a PS5 or Xbox X, and it can't be as expensive as a laptop capable enough of playing games at 30-60FPS.

And GPD complaining about the Steam Deck only makes them worse, considering the prices of their handhelds was already a bad value compared to a gaming laptop.