Justifying The Notch?

[Obioban]

9 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

i'd imagine it being less glaring if the screen is OLED, or you'll have glowing black bars beside the camera

are the new macs OLED?

They’re mini LED— which has equally perfect blacks for things like this (but with much higher brightness and no burn in, unlike OLEDs). You’ll almost certainly be able to turn the notch into a large top bezel via 3rd party utility within a week of launch.

[IPD]

I know.  Put edge lighting in the top edge of the bezel to even out the rest.  Something soft for ambient lighting while working in dimly lit areas.

[Roswell]

2 hours ago, Obioban said:

They’re mini LED— which has equally perfect blacks for things like this (but with much higher brightness and no burn in, unlike OLEDs). You’ll almost certainly be able to turn the notch into a large top bezel via 3rd party utility within a week of launch.

Definitely not equal blacks, it’s still LED.

[Obioban]

2 hours ago, Roswell said:

Definitely not equal blacks, it’s still LED.

The iPad Pro miniLED has 10,000 dimming zones on a 12.9” screen. These are likely a similar ratio of zones to size (exact numbers not released yet).

 

It’s not per pixel dimming like an OLED, but it’s plenty enough for perfect blacks for a bar across the top (and most other practical purposes— 10,000 zones on a 12.9” screen is probably enough that the limiting factor is the blooming of the human eyeball, not the screen).

 

I don’t think people have caught on yet how awesome these screens are going to be— perfect blacks, 1600 peak nits/1000 nit sustained, apple levels of color accuracy, 120hz, variable refresh rate, no burn in. They should be pretty amazing!

[Jaesop]

11 hours ago, DrKondziu said:

It's more about to prefer symmetry over extra sreen.

Seems just as weird.

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

My only thing against the notch was that it should've packed more than just a 1080p camera. It should've had FaceID or at the very least, the Centre Stage feature iPad Pro has. That being said, oh boy. Just wait, someone is going to follow Apple and make a notched laptop for Windows, I swear.  

 

People wanted form over function. Dell chose form which is why you have a webcam that's competing with mid 2000s feature phones for potato quality awards. Apple chose function and this is what we got for better or for worse.

 

I'm not sure where the heck Linus is going with his suggestion to make the notch on the top of the display. That would make sense for a AIO desktop or a monitor with a built in webcam/microphone. In fact, such products already exist like the Lenovo ThinkVision T24V. But I can't imagine that working for a laptop because then you would have to also put a notch on the bottom half of the notebook to protect the camera while the lid is closed. Or leave it where you have a notch that sticks out only from the lid when the laptop is closed. So I don't know which is uglier, a notch in the display, or a notch that sticks out and potentially doesn't line up with the bottom case when closed. 

 

[Arika]

1 hour ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

But I can't imagine that working for a laptop because then you would have to also put a notch on the bottom half of the notebook to protect the camera while the lid is closed

oh, you mean the ugly shit that Asus makes sometimes?

 

 

 

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

1 minute ago, Arika S said:

oh, you mean the ugly shit that Asus makes sometimes?

 

 

 

Oh dear god... I mean... it's not too terrible (I'm really trying to be nice here). Does double as a lip to open the lid easier. But to have a good 1080p sensor, the notch would be at least twice the size of that. And that's when we're getting into cancerous growth territory. 

[Jtalk4456]

23 hours ago, kirashi said:

Before anyone comes at me, no, I don't hate clean, minimalist design - in fact, I'd love to live a more minimalist lifestyle. The problem is when such designs become so minimalist at the expense of sacrificing actual, real-world functionality that the end user has to jump through hoops just to use the product in a way that best suits their daily needs. Humans can in fact design better products, but only if we ask enough questions before manufacturing.

A-Freaking-Men

[GuiltySpark_]

On 10/22/2021 at 11:29 PM, rickeo said:

I'm a simple person. The "notch" is inside the menu bar bothering no one and taking up no space. The screen is bigger. People just like to complain.

I've made a grave mistake.

 

 

[Roswell]

5 hours ago, rickeo said:

I've made a grave mistake.

 

 

I have a strong feeling that’s not really

 Apple’s fault. iStat uses some foolery to circumvent status bar icon size limitations which seems to be messing with the intended behavior.

 

I also question anything that comes from SnazzyLabs… His entire schtick is masquerading as an Apple fanboy to attract Apple users to his channel before going on extended anti Apple rants.

[Brian McKee]

On 10/22/2021 at 11:11 PM, Oshino Shinobu said:

It's a somewhat necessary evil on phones as they're trying to maximise as much screen space as possible and it's a measure for now while better ways to hide the front camera and sensors are developed. 

This is only if you buy into the nonsense that bezels are bad and you absolutely need to make your phone more fragile by having the maximum screen to phone ratio.

[Brian McKee]

27 minutes ago, Roswell said:

I also question anything that comes from SnazzyLabs… His entire schtick is masquerading as an Apple fanboy to attract Apple users to his channel before going on extended anti Apple rants.

Not every person who uses mac needs to suck on their toes. I'm critical of most companies and Apple is no exception, despite being an avid Mac OS user myself.

 

You'd have to be utterly delusional to not think Apple does a lot of absolutely braindead shit and has been becoming increasingly sloppy.

[Paul Thexton]

Yeah either the app with the problem is doing something really unusual, or it's just an outright oversight on Apple's part not to fix it in the AppKit framework.

 

Ironically if it's Apple's fault it should also be a quicker fix than asking individual app writers to update their software.

[Sauron]

On 10/23/2021 at 5:00 AM, AngryPig said:

After the WAN show today with the discussion of the notch on the new Apple devices, to me it just seems like a precursor to notches on iPads and having developers design around it for all devices. It already exists on the phones, now on the laptops. If Apple wants to make an all in one OS across devices, standardizing features seems logical.

 

Thoughts?

It's a non-feature which needlessly complicates both hardware and software design. The sooner we get decent under screen cameras, the sooner we can get rid of this stupid fad.

On 10/23/2021 at 7:31 PM, TetraSky said:

While not a notch, I don't even notice the hole punch camera on my phone. Because nothing I ever do on my phone is affected by it. Videos in portrait as just under it and  in landscape, with the black bars due to the  aspect ratio, it is not even touching.

Which is why it offers pretty much no benefits over a "normal" bezel.

 

As for macbooks, the mbp literally has a large bezel under the screen which could have fit the camera instead.

 

 

There is absolutely no reason to sacrifice part of the screen for the notch.

 

Also, the same goes for curved edges. Just... why?

[WolframaticAlpha]

On 10/23/2021 at 8:38 AM, IPD said:

Was ugly.  Is ugly.  Will forever be ugly.  Make the entire bezel thicker in that area and figure out something useful to do with it.  On my phone, that's where the ear speaker, front camera, and photovoltaic sensor live.

 

If apple is so wrapped around the axle on sound output, put speakers on the top bezel and get rid of the notch.

eh. For me, it was a notch fatigue. It looked incredibly beautiful when it came out, but generation after generation, it started to look ungainly. I don't have that big of a problem with the notch on a phone(I use a notched phone), but it just becomes ugly on larger screens. Also waterdrops look better imo.

 

Even if the newer macbooks added hot corners over there, it would be fine. But the new one is just an ugly aberration for me.

 

Views are personal.

[Paul Thexton]

1 hour ago, Sauron said:

The sooner we get decent under screen cameras, the sooner we can get rid of this stupid fad.

aka nose cam. I'd honestly rather have the notch if it was a choice between the two. My colleagues don't need to see my approaching-middle-age-nose-hair-growth-spurt.

[Paul Thexton]

I'd also say that generally Apple have done a fantastic job with these latest MBPs if the thing people are zeroing in on to criticise is the notch. I honestly expected the major complaint to be that the return of the SD/HDMI ports and MagSafe have come at the expense of the fourth USB-C port.

[IAmAndre]

I really don't think having a notch is an issue on a laptop. I actually wish I had one on my MacBook Air because the top bezel is just huge. On the iPhone though it is a deal breaker, especially on the iPhone 13 Mini. I'm looking forward to the next iteration, hopefully with under display cameras.

 

[Paul Thexton]

If they can make the under display cameras work without losing any image fidelity then that's absolutely the right way to go. They'd have to get the layers between the camera and the front to behave as an ND0 filter though if you want zero loss of image quality which I imagine isn't going to be straightforward.

[Freakwise]

46 minutes ago, Paul Thexton said:

aka nose cam.

I could be wrong but i think he meant this underscreen camera

 

And not a camera that literally placed below screen level

[Spotty]

1 hour ago, Sauron said:

As for macbooks, the mbp literally has a large bezel under the screen which could have fit the camera instead.

I'd rather have the notch than have one of those dreadful booger cameras below the screen.

[Paul Thexton]

18 minutes ago, Freakwise said:

I could be wrong but i think he meant this underscreen camera

Yeah, I responded to the wrong part of his post.

[Quackers101]

Would not want a camera front side, unless it HAS a privacy slide or switch and why is it not really a standard yet?

notch like this is just too distracting for me, it's not really small either, I guess you have to buy the "better" version soon

 

*has a phone holder on the screen to get high quality camera through a feed into the laptop* jk

[Paul Thexton]

12 minutes ago, Quackers101 said:

Would not want a camera front side, unless it HAS a privacy slide or switch and why is it not really a standard yet?

notch like this is just too distracting for me, it's not really small either, I guess you have to buy the "better" version soon

 

*has a phone holder on the screen to get high quality camera through a feed into the laptop* jk

The level of integration between iOS/macOS, copying and pasting between them etc works so well that it wouldn't surprise me if Apple could do a really excellent job of having macOS make use of a nearby iPad/iPhone as a webcam should they want to do that.

 

I also confidently predict the absolute outrage that would ensue as a result "look, they're now FORCING you to have an iPhone" (to be fair, I already complained about that when they launched the Apple Watch, even though I wouldn't want one anyway as I can go a full week with my Garmin ... and Garmin seems to work better for GPS running tracking from what I can tell)