At this rate we will never see a good Intel MB tierlist on the forums - Intel 500 series motherboards coming soon.

[williamcll]

With 11th gen Intel CPUs release coming soon, it is believed that their associated motherboards will also be announced at CES next year. Exact specifications are not known however.

Quote

The company is expected to release (actual word use by the source) three motherboards series including Z590, B560, and H510. All three chipsets will be officially announced and released by Intel on the same day, the story claims. The 500-series motherboards are likely the last DDR4 motherboards from Intel. The series is to feature an LGA1200 socket compatible with the 10th Gen Core Comet Lake-S series and the upcoming 11th Gen Core Rocket Lake-S.

 

According to the same article, Intel has not yet set a firm date for the launch of the new Rocket Lake series. The site claims, however, that the 11th Gen Core series could launch either end of February or early March. It was previously rumored that the series would launch in March alongside the new motherboards, but it appears that the release date has not been set yet. It is unclear why Intel would allegedly launch its next-gen motherboards series ahead of the new CPUs. Especially considering that the series is to be Intel’s first fully capable PCIe 4.0 series, as not all 400-series were hardware-ready for the new interface standard. The core feature of the new chipset will not be utilized until Rocket Lake-S CPUs will become available.

It should be known that at least the Z590 is confirmed to exist as it was tested on the upcoming unnamed intel 8-core weeks ago (which was still outclassed by the AMD 5800X as of writing).

 

Source: https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/9F3gGoP0mI9BWnl6EGILAA

https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-500-series-z590-b560-and-h410-motherboards-rumored-to-launch-on-january-11th
Thoughts: Maybe this time Intel takes a note and allow backwards compatibility on their motherboards or else the technowizards in ShenZhen is gonna have a fun time modding BIOSes.

[Ashleyyyy]

NO MORE TIER LISTS PLEASE

[porina]

There's only two chipset series and two CPU generations for LGA1200 anyway, and they will be compatible with each other. Before that is physically incompatible, after that we're likely to enter DDR5 era and new everything all round. I prefer Intel's approach, since the vast majority of people wont upgrade ever, and it removes the bios compatibility pain that AMD continually suffers from with every generation.

[leadeater]

18 minutes ago, Ashley said:

NO MORE TIER LISTS PLEASE

This forum really needs multiple reaction support so I can mark as funny and agree.

[leadeater]

17 minutes ago, porina said:

and it removes the bios compatibility pain that AMD continually suffers from with every generation

Well if everyone had perfect hindsight that issue could have been avoided by using larger, more expensive, BIOS chips but oh well. One area of control AMD failed to take over board partners and likely even they fell shortsighted to that issue anyway. Oh how much better it could have been, at least image wise. Like you said very few actually upgrade and the most likely would all be on 300 series or early 400 series which more often than not would be a bad idea for Ryzen 5000 anyway.

[porina]

4 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Well if everyone had perfect hindsight that issue could have been avoided by using larger, more expensive, BIOS chips but oh well. 

That's a different tradeoff. What might cost cents or dollars on the BOM level can translate to dollars or more at final pricing. If most people will not make use of that feature, why make it more expensive for them? I guess part of the problem we collectively have is people want all the features, at the bottom end price.

[leadeater]

12 minutes ago, porina said:

That's a different tradeoff. What might cost cents or dollars on the BOM level can translate to dollars or more at final pricing. If most people will not make use of that feature, why make it more expensive for them? I guess part of the problem we collectively have is people want all the features, at the bottom end price.

Well I did say more expensive, not like I was saying that wouldn't be passed through to the consumer. But I strongly suspect with that perfect hindsight at least 400 series onwards all would have used the large BIOS chips, in the same vain VRM quality and cost increased as it was. It's not like anyone was really cheaping out either, what was used was what was common at the time and no reason not to use them and would have already been in supply.

[SADS]

Man, Intel really need to learn how to future proof their platforms

[Morgan MLGman]

1 hour ago, porina said:

I prefer Intel's approach, since the vast majority of people wont upgrade ever, and it removes the bios compatibility pain that AMD continually suffers from with every generation.

Really? You prefer being in a situation, in which if you bought a brand new platform consisting of a top-tier Z170 board and the top-tier CPU i7-6700K, you had no upgrade path whatsoever since day one?

[porina]

7 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

Really? You prefer being in a situation, in which if you bought a brand new platform consisting of a top-tier Z170 board and the top-tier CPU i7-6700K, you had no upgrade path whatsoever since day one?

Up to one more generation after current is ok. I currently own 4 Z170 chipset mobos, although I only have two 6700k on Asus Maximus series boards, both CPUs were bought when they were still current, as were all the mobos. I buy for the needs at the time of buying, not what might or might not happen at some point in the future.

 

Generally speaking, when it is worth upgrading, things have moved along enough that you might as well have a clean start. About the only upgrade case that kinda makes any sense is if you bought a low end CPU, but that still leaves you open to higher end CPUs of that compatibility generation. You can see this in used prices, top end CPUs for a socket are holding value, lower end ones have price crashed.

 

A new CPU on a new chipset you know will have been tested together more thoroughly when paired together. The mishmash of generations on AMD side is a mess.

[Taf the Ghost]

2 hours ago, porina said:

There's only two chipset series and two CPU generations for LGA1200 anyway, and they will be compatible with each other. Before that is physically incompatible, after that we're likely to enter DDR5 era and new everything all round. I prefer Intel's approach, since the vast majority of people wont upgrade ever, and it removes the bios compatibility pain that AMD continually suffers from with every generation.

The actual issue has never been the 2-generation support. It's the Segmentation down the chipset scale. AMD really is only covering 3 generations of CPUs on the platform (Zen+ was basically just microcode patched Zen1 + node gains for binning), so all that's really happened is the socket has stayed the same. So Cooler compatibility is easier.

[Moonzy]

53 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

Really? You prefer being in a situation, in which if you bought a brand new platform consisting of a top-tier Z170 board and the top-tier CPU i7-6700K, you had no upgrade path whatsoever since day one?

for now lets assume that X370 chipsets can support ryzen 5000, even though they cant

 

normal users that are on zen 1 arent really upgrading yet, at least none of my "not that into tech" gamer friends that have zen 1 cpu are looking for upgrading their cpu (but they're definitely looking at gpu upgrades now)

normal users upgrade cycles just really isnt frequent enough to justify the thousands of bios revision confusion, imo

 

of course you can argue that they can upgrade to a better cpu in the future, like when ryzen 7000 release, they can still buy a ryzen 5600x or smth

but seeing how intel cpu prices (like 7700k) really isnt worth it, even in used market, compared to new offerings, idk how viable this route is

 

tl;dr: it's nice for enthusiast but it's kinda a pain for non-techy people

 

but i remain open minded, i want to see what AMD can improve with their next socket, because they did start in the middle of DDR4 life cycle after all.

maybe those who adopt first gen can upgrade their cpu after 5 generations (5 years gap is about when a normal user would upgrade, i reckon)

[Mateyyy]

1 hour ago, SADS said:

Man, Intel really need to learn how to future proof their platforms

What are you on about? Z490 will still be compatible with Rocket Lake-S.

[AndreiArgeanu]

35 minutes ago, porina said:

You can see this in used prices, top end CPUs for a socket are holding value, lower end ones have price crashed.

 

8 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

but seeing how intel cpu prices (like 7700k) really isnt worth it, even in used market, compared to new offerings, idk how viable this route it

That's mostly (to my knowledge) an Intel thing, definitely not AMD, a 2700X for example currently goes for about 140-150$, while it was released it was 330$. 3800X was released at 399$ and now it goes for about 200$.

 

40 minutes ago, porina said:

About the only upgrade case that kinda makes any sense is if you bought a low end CPU

Most people have bought lower to mid end chips, i3's, r3's, i5's r5's. Not everyone can just afford to dish out 500$ on a high end CPU. Upgrade ability is important for lots of people, maybe not you, but someone else.

[Blademaster91]

3 minutes ago, AndreiArgeanu said:

Most people have bought lower to mid end chips, i3's, r3's, i5's r5's. Not everyone can just afford to dish out 500$ on a high end CPU. Upgrade ability is important for lots of people, maybe not you, but someone else.

I think having an upgrade path is nice, but from an i3 or r3 to an i7 or r7? I dunno its likely someone went with a really cheap motherboard that wouldn't be fully compatible with a high end CPU.  Although a new chipset for a single CPU generation makes no sense at all, yeah Z490 is compatible but Intel should've just stuck with that.

[porina]

3 minutes ago, AndreiArgeanu said:

That's mostly (to my knowledge) an Intel thing, definitely not AMD, a 2700X for example currently goes for about 140-150$, while it was released it was 330$. 3800X was released at 399$ and now it goes for about 200$.

They are no the top CPU for the socket, you can throw in a higher Zen 2 and depending on the mobo Zen 3 (subject to firmware and other limitations).

 

On Intel side, taking Skylake/Kaby Lake generation as example, the top CPUs are the 4 core 8 thread i7 parts. So, 6700, 6700k, 7700, 7700k will hold resale value better than lower parts. You can also see that with the i7 Haswell parts.

 

3 minutes ago, AndreiArgeanu said:

 

Most people have bought lower to mid end chips, i3's, r3's, i5's r5's. Not everyone can just afford to dish out 500$ on a high end CPU. Upgrade ability is important for lots of people, maybe not you, but someone else.

You still do have an upgrade path if you got a lower end CPU. Maybe not as much of a path if you could have future generations, but it is not no path.

[porina]

1 minute ago, Blademaster91 said:

yeah Z490 is compatible but Intel should've just stuck with that.

I wonder if Intel might have their AMD PCIe 4.0 moment. If you recall some mobos were designed to support 4.0 on 400 chipset, but AMD killed that off to prevent market confusion. Intel 400 chipset might yet go through something similar, and for actual 4.0 support you need 500 chipset. We'll have to wait and see on that.

[CommanderAlex]

2 hours ago, porina said:

I prefer Intel's approach, since the vast majority of people wont upgrade ever, and it removes the bios compatibility pain that AMD continually suffers from with every generation.

Agreed. I personally don't get the reason with "AMD has supported a socket type for 5 years"...well first gen from Ryzen 1000 series don't support Ryzen 5000 series...its pretty much pointless marketing to sucker you in, just like Intel's two generation cycle per chipset. 

[AndreiArgeanu]

14 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

I think having an upgrade path is nice, but from an i3 or r3 to an i7 or r7? I dunno its likely someone went with a really cheap motherboard that wouldn't be fully compatible with a high end CPU.

True. But that only applies to the very low end motherboards, like a b450 s2h, or a320 motherboard. If you spent like 70$ or so on something like a b450 pro4, then you can easily get a r7.

[AndreiArgeanu]

16 minutes ago, porina said:

They are no the top CPU for the socket, you can throw in a higher Zen 2 and depending on the mobo Zen 3 (subject to firmware and other limitations).

They still are high end cpu's. The 2700X was the highest end zen+ cpu. And still the 3950X was released at 749$ and I see it currently going for about 500$ sometimes.

[SADS]

Want to upgrade your GPU? sure, swap in a new one.

Memory? sure, expand with some more sticks or whack in some faster ones.

HDD to SSD? we got you covered.

 

CPU?

Nah sorry, you need a new mobo for that... £200+ extra on top of CPU price please.

"But i have a 9th gen CPU?!?"

"just give me your wallet please sir"

 

Of course im paraphrasing and being jovial... but this is very much how it feels.

Especially when the last 3 gens of Intel have felt like pretty much the same chip.

[porina]

2 hours ago, AndreiArgeanu said:

They still are high end cpu's. The 2700X was the highest end zen+ cpu. And still the 3950X was released at 749$ and I see it currently going for about 500$ sometimes.

A 2700X today is not the highest CPU you can get for that socket compatibility, therefore it doesn't holds value. 3950X will still hold value as it is closer to top end. 5950X will eventually replace it, if supplies get better. But the 3950X will probably still hold even then, for those on older mobos not capable of running 5000 series.

 

55 minutes ago, SADS said:

Nah sorry, you need a new mobo for that... £200+ extra on top of CPU price please.

For a gaming focused system, CPU+mobo combined probably costs less than the GPU alone. Of course, people will balance systems differently, and may buy more expensive CPUs than required just for gaming.

[Moonzy]

2 hours ago, AndreiArgeanu said:

see it currently going for about 500$ sometimes

The thing is, by the time ryzen 7000 launch, how enticing is it to upgrade to a 3950x rather than just building a new mid-range platform for most consumers and get the latest features and benefits from higher IPC?

 

Only time will tell, tbh

[sub68]

5 hours ago, Ashley said:

NO MORE TIER LISTS PLEASE

I stab my desk yes pls stop with them

[Kid.Lazer]

I think the mentality of preferring Intel's 2-generation support is misguided due to their lack of innovation in the last several generations. Updating to anything on the Intel side within a 3-generation window in either direction yields negligible differences. On the other hand, going from a Ryzen 2000 series to a 5000 series is a massive uplift, all while doing it on the same platform. Being able to make that jump on an Intel platform is simply not possible.