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Minecraft Java Edition to get performance improvements in 2021

gjsman
By gjsman
in Tech News
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Summary

In a discussion about Minecraft performance on Hacker News, the Group Engineering Manager for Java at Microsoft revealed that a team is going to be working on Minecraft Java Edition's performance throughout 2021, starting with the server performance. 

 

Quotes

Quote

Howdy, I’m the Group engineering manager for Java at Microsoft (yep we now do Java!). Our group is working on minecraft’s perf (starting with server) so expect a steady rate of improvement over the 2021
 

To be clear to everyone. Not commenting or promising on the future product direction of the Java server or Java edition (my group doesn't own the product or product direction in any way shape or form). There's just some stuff we can look at now to improve the status quo since a bunch of my team are also fans of the game 🙂

 

My thoughts

It's good to see that Minecraft Java Edition is going to finally see some performance improvements. Since 1.13, performance on the server end has been pretty bad compared to earlier versions, and it is excellent to see that they are improving stuff under-the-hood and not getting entirely caught up with the flashy announcements at the cost of performance. This hopefully will also help LTT's server (and maybe 2B2T's server ;) to have more people on it or upgrade to a newer version.

This will also be a relief to everyone who plays Java Edition and has that worrying voice in their head that Microsoft only cares about Bedrock. 

 

Sources

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25384534 

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19 minutes ago, gjsman said:

a relief to everyone who plays Java Edition and has that worrying voice in their head that Microsoft only cares about Bedrock.

If they stopped bothering with Java then they would alienate a lot of people.

 

Java has some game mechanics in it, particularly related to Redstone, which are quite important for many things that people build, but which simply aren't present in Bedrock.

Java also seems to have a much bigger community for modding etc. than Bedrock.

And if you want to play on a desktop system other than Windows 10, then Bedrock simply isn't an option.

 

But similarly, Bedrock is your only option on mobile, and it also has some important different game mechanics, some of which I've heard would be difficult to port to Java. It also has ray-traced graphics, which Java doesn't.

 

Both editions coexisting is, in my opinion, a good thing. That's not to say Microsoft, being Microsoft, wouldn't get rid of it, though...

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pythonmegapixel

into tech, public transport and architecture // amateur programmer // youtuber // beginner photographer

Thanks for reading all this by the way!

By the way, my desktop is a docked laptop. Get over it, No seriously, I have an exterrnal monitor, keyboard, mouse, headset, ethernet and cooling fans all connected. Using it feels no different to a desktop, it works for several hours if the power goes out, and disconnecting just a few cables gives me something I can take on the go. There's enough power for all games I play and it even copes with basic (and some not-so-basic) video editing. Give it a go - you might just love it.

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1 hour ago, pythonmegapixel said:

Both editions coexisting is, in my opinion, a good thing. That's not to say Microsoft, being Microsoft, wouldn't get rid of it, though...

Are they still trying to bring parity to both? Last time I played (like, right before 1.16 came out) they were trying to do that. I can't remember how much redstone was changed in those updates but hopefully they keep doing it.

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It only took 13 years... 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Posted

If the game could run a quarter as well as it did on 1.2.5 I'd be thrilled. Server performance is a joke right now, even with paper.

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Posted

I vaguely remember something about Java edition being prepped for being killed off or something

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4 hours ago, pythonmegapixel said:

If they stopped bothering with Java then they would alienate a lot of people.

 

Java has some game mechanics in it, particularly related to Redstone, which are quite important for many things that people build, but which simply aren't present in Bedrock.

Java also seems to have a much bigger community for modding etc. than Bedrock.

And if you want to play on a desktop system other than Windows 10, then Bedrock simply isn't an option.

 

But similarly, Bedrock is your only option on mobile, and it also has some important different game mechanics, some of which I've heard would be difficult to port to Java. It also has ray-traced graphics, which Java doesn't.

 

Both editions coexisting is, in my opinion, a good thing. That's not to say Microsoft, being Microsoft, wouldn't get rid of it, though...

It'll be much easier for them to make Bedrock have the same redstone behavior and add proper mod support (not what JE has, christ it's so bad) rather than making something using Java run better.

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Please give multi core support for the server application

Hi

 

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hi

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, 2Buck said:

Server performance is a joke right now, even with paper.

A high end server cpu will run it worse than some desktop dual cores

Hi

 

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hi

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted

They should just take Optifine and make it standard in the game.

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3 hours ago, TetraSky said:

They should just take Optifine and make it standard in the game.

optifine is great and all but it doesn't solve java's issues with muti-threading and it's terrible garbage collection system.

it does help with minecraft's graphical performance and server performance (on the client side only) but it's not useful for server's and how they handle things.

even with performance plugins and mods, they can only do so much to help performance.

it's not minecraft thats the issue, it's java, java itself has to be optimized.

what you are proposing is more akin to adding more cylinders to a car engine.

great at first but the more you add the less performance you get for the number of cylinders you have.

it's more efficient and easier to tune the engine to gain more power, it could be tightening some bolts here and there or changing the fuel to air mixture ratio.

improving what you have in this case is the way to go instead of adding things to make it better.

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If they want PC players to migrate to Bedrock they should release more API and maybe pay all the big modmakers to update their mods to work with bedrock.

 

I wonder what improvements can Microsoft can do to optimize java.

 

Also, why don't Mojang release the java verison of Minecraft on mobile? It's proven to work before.

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3 hours ago, williamcll said:

If they want PC players to migrate to Bedrock they should release more API and maybe pay all the big modmakers to update their mods to work with bedrock.

 

I wonder what improvements can Microsoft can do to optimize java.

 

Also, why don't Mojang release the java verison of Minecraft on mobile? It's proven to work before.

The problem is bedrock will never be able to support all the APIs from Java because bedrock has to work on locked down devices like consoles and phones.

 

Sony for instance is already annoyed at how open bedrock is with plugins and behaviour packs.

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6 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

The problem is bedrock will never be able to support all the APIs from Java because bedrock has to work on locked down devices like consoles and phones.

 

Sony for instance is already annoyed at how open bedrock is with plugins and behaviour packs.

I wonder if it's time for a change in Minecraft's strategy then. We could have "Console and iPhone Edition" for the locked down platforms, and Java Edition for Android and the desktop platforms.

 

But I can say for a fact that I would play Minecraft far less than I do now if it wasn't possible to use community mods and resource packs. I might not even have bought the game at all. I know a lot of the rest of the community is the same. I am strongly of the opinion that if Minecraft moves in a more locked-down direction, they will lose a lot of their fanbase.

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21 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

I vaguely remember something about Java edition being prepped for being killed off or something

they better not, because that would alienate most of the player base, mods is a large part of minecraft's success.

7 hours ago, pythonmegapixel said:

I wonder if it's time for a change in Minecraft's strategy then. We could have "Console and iPhone Edition" for the locked down platforms, and Java Edition for Android and the desktop platforms.

 

But I can say for a fact that I would play Minecraft far less than I do now if it wasn't possible to use community mods and resource packs. I might not even have bought the game at all. I know a lot of the rest of the community is the same. I am strongly of the opinion that if Minecraft moves in a more locked-down direction, they will lose a lot of their fanbase.

true, if it wasn't for great mods like thaumcraft i wouldn't have played minecraft, and without others like electrical age, mekanism, rf-tools etc, i would not have played as much as i did.

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19 hours ago, pythonmegapixel said:

I wonder if it's time for a change in Minecraft's strategy then. We could have "Console and iPhone Edition" for the locked down platforms, and Java Edition for Android and the desktop platforms.

 

But I can say for a fact that I would play Minecraft far less than I do now if it wasn't possible to use community mods and resource packs. I might not even have bought the game at all. I know a lot of the rest of the community is the same. I am strongly of the opinion that if Minecraft moves in a more locked-down direction, they will lose a lot of their fanbase.

That won't happen as they want people to have ability to play together on a console and PC for example. Both Bedrock edition and Java edition will continue to exist.

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2 hours ago, Mihle said:

That won't happen as they want people to have ability to play together on a console and PC for example. Both Bedrock edition and Java edition will continue to exist.

That's an interesting one.

Before BE existed - when every console had the it's own version and pocket edition was separate - was cross-platform play a thing?

 

I do wonder how many people actually use that functionality anyway... I imagine it's not a majority of their player base, but may well be more than use the obscure Redstone mechanics I was talking about before!

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pythonmegapixel

into tech, public transport and architecture // amateur programmer // youtuber // beginner photographer

Thanks for reading all this by the way!

By the way, my desktop is a docked laptop. Get over it, No seriously, I have an exterrnal monitor, keyboard, mouse, headset, ethernet and cooling fans all connected. Using it feels no different to a desktop, it works for several hours if the power goes out, and disconnecting just a few cables gives me something I can take on the go. There's enough power for all games I play and it even copes with basic (and some not-so-basic) video editing. Give it a go - you might just love it.

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On 12/12/2020 at 6:49 AM, gjsman said:


This will also be a relief to everyone who plays Java Edition and has that worrying voice in their head that Microsoft only cares about Bedrock. 

 

 

Microsoft likely only cares about bedrock. The Java version exists because feature parity from bedrock to it is impossible. It's Java. It's forever crippled by being Java. No games should have ever been developed in Java once Oracle got it's teeth into it, which happened while Minecraft was in alpha. Build your new game engines in C17/C++14 (basically before the language started getting features deleted from it) and do all the level and scripting in a language that runs on top. The only people building games in Java are people who don't know better, or only know Java.

 

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3 hours ago, Kisai said:

C17/C++14 (basically before the language started getting features deleted from it

Why would anyone want to dumb down a language? o.O

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4 hours ago, Kisai said:

 

Microsoft likely only cares about bedrock. The Java version exists because feature parity from bedrock to it is impossible. It's Java. It's forever crippled by being Java. No games should have ever been developed in Java once Oracle got it's teeth into it, which happened while Minecraft was in alpha. Build your new game engines in C17/C++14 (basically before the language started getting features deleted from it) and do all the level and scripting in a language that runs on top. The only people building games in Java are people who don't know better, or only know Java.

 

I wonder if a complete rewrite of Minecraft is in order then... it probably won't happen, but we can dream.

 

With some careful design, the engine could almost certainly be written for all platforms, and pretty much left alone. Then the scripting for everything on top - blocks, entities, the game mechanics, and hopefully third-party mods etc. - could have complete parity across platforms and crossplatform play could be enabled between all versions.

 

I see no reason why the odd mechanics that originally arose from bugs in JE but which are actually very useful - e.g. sticky pistons leaving blocks in place if they get a one-tick Redstone signal - couldn't be artificially re-added.

 

Of course, we have to be careful what we wish for. Being Microsoft, I can see them using such a project as an excuse for dropping support for platforms which aren't in their business interests to support - i.e. desktop platforms other than Windows, and consoles other than the Xbox. That would be a massive shame.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

pythonmegapixel

into tech, public transport and architecture // amateur programmer // youtuber // beginner photographer

Thanks for reading all this by the way!

By the way, my desktop is a docked laptop. Get over it, No seriously, I have an exterrnal monitor, keyboard, mouse, headset, ethernet and cooling fans all connected. Using it feels no different to a desktop, it works for several hours if the power goes out, and disconnecting just a few cables gives me something I can take on the go. There's enough power for all games I play and it even copes with basic (and some not-so-basic) video editing. Give it a go - you might just love it.

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6 hours ago, pythonmegapixel said:

That's an interesting one.

Before BE existed - when every console had the it's own version and pocket edition was separate - was cross-platform play a thing?

It wasn't.

 

5 hours ago, Kisai said:

 

Microsoft likely only cares about bedrock. The Java version exists because feature parity from bedrock to it is impossible.

Killing off Java edition without having an alternative that support at least similar types of mods as Java edition would make a lot of hate come for them, and probably make lot of people bot want to play it anymore.

 

Wonder if they could make it possible to have mods for Bedrock edition for PCs only while not on Consoles as that companies wouldn't like.

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Try to make sense of what you see and wonder about what makes the universe exist. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. 
It matters that you don't just give up.”

-Stephen Hawking

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3 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

Why would anyone want to dumb down a language? o.O

C++20 is actually deleting features. That's a "Yikes, don't go down the path of all the other languages please" from me. C++'s claim to fame is that anything built on it, even mildly pre-STL C++ and mixed C/C++ code will compile and run, even on a new runtime. That doesn't happen, with most languages, because most languages ultimately start to converge on just being C++.

 

2 hours ago, pythonmegapixel said:

I wonder if a complete rewrite of Minecraft is in order then... it probably won't happen, but we can dream.

Bedrock was already a complete rewrite. What I expect is that at some later point in time, the memory/threading model in the Java version will break and Java will no longer get new features. Like it's already impossible to get ray tracing into it since it relies on DirectX12 features, and mods for the Java version will never converge on this, since the Java version would need to be rewritten to use Vulkan to even get near that, which means it won't run on most devices it currently runs on. At that point you may as well just port the C++ version to Vulkan anyway, it's less work.

 

2 hours ago, pythonmegapixel said:

With some careful design, the engine could almost certainly be written for all platforms, and pretty much left alone. Then the scripting for everything on top - blocks, entities, the game mechanics, and hopefully third-party mods etc. - could have complete parity across platforms and crossplatform play could be enabled between all versions.

 

I see no reason why the odd mechanics that originally arose from bugs in JE but which are actually very useful - e.g. sticky pistons leaving blocks in place if they get a one-tick Redstone signal - couldn't be artificially re-added.

I'm actually surprised MC isn't broken with every release of Java.

 

2 hours ago, pythonmegapixel said:

Of course, we have to be careful what we wish for. Being Microsoft, I can see them using such a project as an excuse for dropping support for platforms which aren't in their business interests to support - i.e. desktop platforms other than Windows, and consoles other than the Xbox. That would be a massive shame.

Microsoft has a history of dropping support for things, though they have historically bent over backwards to retain compatibility in their products (eg Win95 software can still run on Win10 if it doesn't use any 16-bit parts)

 

1 hour ago, Mihle said:

It wasn't.

 

Killing off Java edition without having an alternative that support at least similar types of mods as Java edition would make a lot of hate come for them, and probably make lot of people bot want to play it anymore.

 

Wonder if they could make it possible to have mods for Bedrock edition for PCs only while not on Consoles as that companies wouldn't like.

The most likely situation is that "the server" gets detached from the client versions. Right now the only real incentive to use the Java version is because you can mod the hell out of of the Java-based server and clients. The C++ bedrock edition has an official way of having add-ons. The Java version requires the server and client to have the same mods if you want to play it with anyone. That alone disincentives people from playing modded games, since console versions can't make use of them.

 

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6 minutes ago, Kisai said:

The Java version requires the server and client to have the same mods if you want to play it with anyone.

Which is understandable, after all the client also needs the assets so it can display things that are int the mod. They could do what for examle CS:S did where the client downloads the missing data from the server, MS and Sony wont allow that for consoles "because pirates would use it to crack open their consoles". Not to mention server side only mods which can handle purely vanilla clients without issues.

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3 hours ago, Kisai said:

Microsoft has a history of dropping support for things, though they have historically bent over backwards to retain compatibility in their products (eg Win95 software can still run on Win10 if it doesn't use any 16-bit parts)

That's exactly what I mean.

I could imagine a scenario where a rewrite happens and Microsoft hands out free copies of the new version to Windows and Xbox players. You use Linux, or a PlayStation? You get nothing, not even the opportunity to purchase the new version unless you switch to one of Microsoft's platforms.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

pythonmegapixel

into tech, public transport and architecture // amateur programmer // youtuber // beginner photographer

Thanks for reading all this by the way!

By the way, my desktop is a docked laptop. Get over it, No seriously, I have an exterrnal monitor, keyboard, mouse, headset, ethernet and cooling fans all connected. Using it feels no different to a desktop, it works for several hours if the power goes out, and disconnecting just a few cables gives me something I can take on the go. There's enough power for all games I play and it even copes with basic (and some not-so-basic) video editing. Give it a go - you might just love it.

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43 minutes ago, pythonmegapixel said:

That's exactly what I mean.

I could imagine a scenario where a rewrite happens and Microsoft hands out free copies of the new version to Windows and Xbox players. You use Linux, or a PlayStation? You get nothing, not even the opportunity to purchase the new version unless you switch to one of Microsoft's platforms.

Good thing we have proton now so its no biggie, if they start banning ppl for then those angry customers will raize the black flag showing the middle finger to ms.....

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