Is Extra, Currently Unneeded Wattage Bad?

[chippu]

I'm building a new system, and PCPartPicker says it will only need ~400 watts.

 

I plan on buying an Antec Neo Eco M Gold power supply. The 700w version is only 20 dollars more than say the 500 one.

I've heard getting a ton of extra wattage is usually a waste of money, but would this be worth it in the long run? I do plan on upgrading eventually, although I don't think anything I buy will need this much, does it hurt to just pay an extra 20 just to be safe?

[AndrewZScorpion]

No reason not to get a higher wattage PSU other than price. Since you’re planning on upgrading in the future, getting one with more wattage than you need now is a good idea.

[Ankerson]

2 minutes ago, chippu said:

I'm building a new system, and PCPartPicker says it will only need ~400 watts.

 

I plan on buying an Antec Neo Eco M Gold power supply. The 700w version is only 20 dollars more than say the 500 one.

I've heard getting a ton of extra wattage is usually a waste of money, but would this be worth it in the long run? I do plan on upgrading eventually, although I don't think anything I buy will need this much, does it hurt to just pay an extra 20 just to be safe?

 

No, not at all, people who say that are just dead wrong.

 

The PSU will supply the power requested by the PC, doesn't matter if it's a 200W or a 1600W PSU.

 

If the PC needs 500W it will supply 500W...

[Kyle Xu]

Just now, Ankerson said:

 

No, not at all, people who say that are just dead wrong.

 

The PSU will supply the power requested by the PC, doesn't matter if it's a 200W or a 1600W PSU.

 

If the PC needs 500W it will supply 500W...

thats not how it works. if the psu is 500w the max tdp is 500w or 499.98 to be exact 

[Tristerin]

I always go higher for head room.

[AndrewZScorpion]

1 minute ago, Dk SPYder said:

thats not how it works. if the psu is 500w the max tdp is 500w or 499.98 to be exact 

Well, high quality PSUs can give more power than stated. It’s just a question of how much more and how long the PSU would last.

[Ankerson]

4 minutes ago, Dk SPYder said:

thats not how it works. if the psu is 500w the max tdp is 500w or 499.98 to be exact 

 

Depends on the actual PSU and if it can supply 100% of the rated power or not.

 

Some actually can do it as they are rated for continuous power.

 

Others..... Not so much....

[chippu]

1 minute ago, Ankerson said:

 

Depends on the actual PSU and if it can supply 100% of the rated power or not.

 

Some actually can do it as they are rated for continuous power.

 

Others..... Not so much....

This Antec PSU was on the B-tier in the PSU Tier List. Is it a good one I can trust to hold me over for years to come? 

[Moonzy]

reason to get a higher wattage PSU:

1) future upgrade

2) 0 RPM fan mode

3) stay around 50% of its full capacity for max efficiency (though some people argue that this is unecessary because the efficiency difference isnt huge)

 

reason not to get a higher wattage PSU:

1) cost, obviously

2) lower low load efficiency (when computer idle)

3) size, some case have little room for your PSU, higher wattage model tend to be longer, so it may cause you to have less room to plug in modular cables/cable manage, or even interfere with other case components

 

the quality of the PSU is also as important as the wattage if you ask me (if not more important)

[Ankerson]

Just now, chippu said:

This Antec PSU was on the B-tier in the PSU Tier List. Is it a good one I can trust to hold me over for years to come? 

 

It's good.

[Fasauceome]

6 minutes ago, Dk SPYder said:

thats not how it works. if the psu is 500w the max tdp is 500w or 499.98 to be exact 

tdp is a thermal metric, power supplies don't have a tdp. also, a PSU rated for 500 watts output can output 500, not just 499.98. in fact, PSUs can often deliver more than their rated output, albeit at great risk, due to manufacturing tolerances and component quality.

 

the rated maximum output is whatever it is, but @Ankerson is saying that a PSU can output any voltage lower than its rated maximum.

[Ankerson]

3 minutes ago, Fasauceome said:

tdp is a thermal metric, power supplies don't have a tdp. also, a PSU rated for 500 watts output can output 500, not just 499.98. in fact, PSUs can often deliver more than their rated output, albeit at great risk, due to manufacturing tolerances and component quality.

 

the rated maximum output is whatever it is, but @Ankerson is saying that a PSU can output any voltage lower than its rated maximum.

 

Yeah, as long as it's a good quality PSU, some can't, not going there,,,,,

 

A good 500W PSU can supply 500W or slightly more, but it's never good to run any PSU at 100% load all the time or even close to that ideally.

[Moonzy]

1 minute ago, Ankerson said:

A good 500W PSU can supply 500W or slightly more, but it never good to run any PSU at 100% load all the time or even close to that ideally.

-runs 4 GPU on a RM850x and watch the wattmeter on the wall approach 800W-

 

[Ankerson]

13 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

-runs 4 GPU on a RM850x and watch the wattmeter on the wall approach 800W-

 

 

 

When I was stressing my system below before I changed the PSU to the current one the 750W Seasonic Prime Ti was getting pretty loud as the draw was in the 660W+ range....

[badreg]

28 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

-runs 4 GPU on a RM850x and watch the wattmeter on the wall approach 800W-

Which is comfortably within its output range. At ~85% efficiency at 100% load, you would need to draw over 1000W from the wall to exceed the 850W rated output. 800W from the wall is barely over 80% load.

[Ankerson]

19 minutes ago, badreg said:

Which is comfortably within its output range. At ~85% efficiency at 100% load, you would need to draw over 1000W from the wall to exceed the 850W rated output. 800W from the wall is barely over 80% load.

 

Ideally you really wouldn't want to be running it at 80% load either....

 

Yes, it can handle it, but ideally one would want to be in the 50% to 70% range or so......

 

As an example my system has a gaming load of ~550W+ and that is ~65% of max load of 850W..... And max load is around 660W+ and that is ~80% of max load of 850W...

[quan289]

Depending on the PSU, it can potentially be louder. Higher wattage units will produce more heat at full load, so it may need a more powerful, higher RPM fan to cool it effectively at that load. This in turn cause the startup voltage to be higher and will spin at a higher RPM at low loads as well. An example of this would be the EVGA Supernova 650 G2 and 850 G2. They both uses a Globe 2BB fan, but the 850 model had a high-speed model and had operated louder throughout.

 

Buyers often try to get a higher wattage units and sacrifice quality for it. I've seen someone went from buying an high-end, high quality Corsair RM550x to buying a more budget oriented EVGA NEX750G, which offer subpar electrical performance due to its inherit design and is quite loud under load. In my opinion, pick the highest quality PSU you are able to get that will power your system comfortably and hold on to it. If you want get a higher wattage unit, then maintain that quality (RM550x to 750w RMx, Fractal Design Ion+, BitFenix Whisper M, SF Leadex, EVGA G3, Seasonic Focus GX, etc) and expect to expand your budget for that (unless you got lucky and got an Corsair RM650x for cheaper than the 550w model like me).

 

 

[Ankerson]

43 minutes ago, quan289 said:

Depending on the PSU, it can potentially be louder. Higher wattage units will produce more heat at full load, so it may need a more powerful, higher RPM fan to cool it effectively at that load. This in turn cause the startup voltage to be higher and will spin at a higher RPM at low loads as well. An example of this would be the EVGA Supernova 650 G2 and 850 G2. They both uses a Globe 2BB fan, but the 850 model had a high-speed model and had operated louder throughout.

 

Buyers often try to get a higher wattage units and sacrifice quality for it. I've seen someone went from buying an high-end, high quality Corsair RM550x to buying a more budget oriented EVGA NEX750G, which offer subpar electrical performance due to its inherit design and is quite loud under load. In my opinion, pick the highest quality PSU you are able to get that will power your system comfortably and hold on to it. If you want get a higher wattage unit, then maintain that quality (RM550x to 750w RMx, Fractal Design Ion+, BitFenix Whisper M, SF Leadex, EVGA G3, Seasonic Focus GX, etc) and expect to expand your budget for that (unless you got lucky and got an Corsair RM650x for cheaper than the 550w model like me).

 

 

 

There is always that, depending on the unit as you said.

 

Even the Seasonic Prime Ultra Ti's can get kinda loud when pushed....

 

Yes, maintain quality when stepping up wattage wise.

 

And the Corsair RM has a louder fan than the RMX does with also a step down in quality...

 

The Focus and EVGA G3's have those 120mm fans and aren't exactly quiet....

 

I am pretty noise sensitive myself so..... 

[quan289]

1 hour ago, Ankerson said:

 

There is always that, depending on the unit as you said.

 

Even the Seasonic Prime Ultra Ti's can get kinda loud when pushed....

 

Yes, maintain quality when stepping up wattage wise.

 

And the Corsair RM has a louder fan than the RMX does with also a step down in quality...

 

The Focus and EVGA G3's have those 120mm fans and aren't exactly quiet....

 

I am pretty noise sensitive myself so..... 

  

I'm personally not noise sensitive. I've basically slept next to a window AC that's like 3 feet away for a good decade or so. On top of that, in the past two years or so, I've been a welder doing barge repairs and the fume extractor there is so fucking loud that it can drowned out any music I'm listening even if I set it at max volume. Here what it sound like in the attach audio.

Voice 001_sd.m4a

Now imagine having two of them, while welding in the tank for 8 hours. LOL So I can't relate to people who keep complaining about noises on many of these power supplies, as those noises are typically constant for the most part. 

 

I do dislike intermittent / pulsating type of noise, though which reminds me of another potential issue with getting a higher wattage unit without proper research. Some people often get a larger PSU to make it stay in fanless mode under load (again depending on the unit, this isn't always the case). I've helped a few people who had done this in the past, where once it hit summertime, the fan would intermittently go on and off...0 to 850RPM. FDB fan are more stressed at startup because in order for the bearing to spin freely, it needs to circulate and build up oil pressure. Having it turn on/off multiple times in a span of a minute like what had happen to them can cause premature fan failure. So when buying a PSU, make sure your system under load isn't around the passive/active threshold.

 

Yeah, the update RM does indeed use a lower quality fan to reduce which is a little louder (I would say it comparable at lower-mid loads, but it is a little louder at high loads). Quite honestly, if you were to power a system with a RM650, I feel you would be find it quite quiet as you not one to put it at that sort of load.

[Ankerson]

22 minutes ago, quan289 said:

Yeah, the update RM does indeed use a lower quality fan to reduce which is a little louder (I would say it comparable at lower-mid loads, but it is a little louder at high loads). Quite honestly, if you were to power a system with a RM650, I feel you would be find it quite quiet as you not one to put it at that sort of load.

 

 

That's not the updated model, it's the budget model of the RM series that cuts corners to cut cost for the customers and has less performance overall than the RMX does. Not terrible, but just not the same as the RMX that is more expensive.

 

Actually went and looked at the reviews and tear down, there is a very noticeable difference in the models, they aren't even really close, not really.

 

I guess we are still waiting on the new RMX and RMI to be released?

 

And likely the new HX and HXI too?

 

@jonnyGURU

 

Would know a lot more than me about this...

[quan289]

13 minutes ago, Ankerson said:

 

That's not the updated model, it's the budget model of the RM series that cuts corners to cut cost and has less performance overall than the RMX does.

 

Actually went and looked at the reviews and tear down, there is a very noticeable difference in the models, they aren't even really close, not really.

To clarify, I meant updated (maybe it be more correct to say the newer revision) from the original and first 2013 RM series (mainstream unit) - not the RMx (high-end unit). Which interestingly enough, the original also had the better NR135L fan.

[Ankerson]

1 minute ago, quan289 said:

To clarify, I meant updated (maybe it be more correct to say the newer revision) from the original and first 2013 RM series - not the RMx. Which interestingly enough, the original also had the better NR135L fan.

 

Among other things.... 

[Ankerson]

37 minutes ago, quan289 said:

I feel you would be find it quite quiet as you not one to put it at that sort of load.

 

Well my system has some serious power draw that would cripple a 650W PSU and cause it to shut off and or be very loud at the very least.....

 

Even caused my 750W Prime Ti to be noticeable fan noise wise...... Over my GPU fans.....

 

Running a HX 850W now.... AH, the quiet.... Yeah I like that.... 

 

Computers should be seen and not heard, not annoyingly anyway.

[Beerzerker]

A higher wattage PSU is fine, won't hurt a thing.
Been running a 1600W unit in this one without issue. No worries about having to buy another anytime soon, the PSU itself doesn't have to work as hard to run the system which (In theory) should also mean a longer life from it.

Although a higher wattage unit is more expensive upfront it pays off over the long run in that you don't have to keep buying PSU's with each and every upgrade done.

I'd rather spend an extra $40 for one that will do for at least two, three or even four builds than have to buy one with every build upgrade.

I will say though the quality of the PSU is VERY important - NEVER skimp on that part of what to get or what you'd pay for.

[chippu]

2 minutes ago, Beerzerker said:

I will say though the quality of the PSU is VERY important - NEVER skimp on that part of what to get or what you'd pay for.

I don't really know anything about the "quality" of PSU's, and even after searching it up I still don't understand.

 

Is the PSU I plan on getting (Antec NeoECO Golden Zen 700w) a good quality one? It's rated 80+ Gold.