windows 10 New PC - strange Windows freezes (probable cause: NZXT CAM)

[darth65]

Hello. Same problem here. Freeze moslty on idle. My first and last NZXT product. Is there any program that can replace CAM and contol my fans and pump?

[g3_angold]

5 hours ago, darth65 said:

Hello. Same problem here. Freeze moslty on idle. My first and last NZXT product. Is there any program that can replace CAM and contol my fans and pump?

Search for liquidctl in this thread. However you can’t use fan curves if you have smart device v2

 

[passedpawn]

16 hours ago, darth65 said:

Hello. Same problem here. Freeze moslty on idle. My first and last NZXT product. Is there any program that can replace CAM and contol my fans and pump?

 

 

[darth65]

On 8/1/2021 at 6:33 PM, g3_angold said:

Search for liquidctl in this thread. However you can’t use fan curves if you have smart device v2

 

Unfortunately I have a smart device v2 . Im using Argus monitor without any feeze but it's only trial version and temps are behave wierd in browsing.

I try liquidctl. Thanks. 

[Mikam0815]

On 7/31/2021 at 7:59 AM, ivan5150 said:

For all the new post here

Disabling Global C State in your bios might fix this issue

For me its 4 moths without any crash

Of course, log a ticket with NZXT might be useful just to put some pressure on these guys...

 

 

Also tried this and for sure it adds more stability, not yet sure if the issue is totally gone. But when I tried to test some RAM settings I by mistake it got enabled again and after the reboot it did crash again after a short while. Now, with the setting again disabled, it runs stable since a couple of days.

 

[NumberYellow]

Ok, so i have something new for you folks to consider...

 

I was watching a video on youtube this morning, when the "creeping death" (as i like to call this issue) started. It manifested in the way you might expect.. the video stopped playing, and the system clock stopped ticking. I called up process explorer, to kill tasks, so i could reset, because if you catch this immediately after it starts, you can still initiate a safe restart.

So i kill firefox, and i'll be damned if the system clock didn't start ticking again. I managed to avert a full lock, by killing firefox. Additionally, when this problem started to occur again on my system, the last thing i'd done, before it started happening, was i was reviewing archived videos with windows media player.

 

I would like to add Firefox, and video decoding to the list of potential culprits of this issue.

[Fakeshemp]

Had to clear CMOS today and go back to default BIOS settings (unrelated boot issue) and totally forgot to change Global C-State from default Auto to disabled. Sure enough 3 hours later the freeze began to creep in for the first time in the 2-3 months since I disabled it. I know there has been mixed success reported for this but it's definitely been keeping them at bay for me so is worth a go for those who haven't done it yet.

[passedpawn]

20 hours ago, NumberYellow said:

Ok, so i have something new for you folks to consider...

 

I was watching a video on youtube this morning, when the "creeping death" (as i like to call this issue) started. It manifested in the way you might expect.. the video stopped playing, and the system clock stopped ticking. I called up process explorer, to kill tasks, so i could reset, because if you catch this immediately after it starts, you can still initiate a safe restart.

So i kill firefox, and i'll be damned if the system clock didn't start ticking again. I managed to avert a full lock, by killing firefox. Additionally, when this problem started to occur again on my system, the last thing i'd done, before it started happening, was i was reviewing archived videos with windows media player.

 

I would like to add Firefox, and video decoding to the list of potential culprits of this issue.

I never use firefox.  Just a datapoint, use this as you see fit.

[NumberYellow]

2 minutes ago, passedpawn said:

I never use firefox.  Just a datapoint, use this as you see fit.

We need all the datapoints we can get, so i thank you for that.

[Leot1995]

On 7/16/2020 at 9:31 PM, Korben said:

Hi there,

I need some help here. I have build a new computer (partlist at the bottom), so far, so good. It runs very good, performance is ok. But after a while (30-120min) of using it, Windows start to behave strange. Here the symptoms:
- Windows kind of freezes but I can still move the mouse, move windows around, close apps (but the closed apps icons stay in the taskbar).
- Youtube videos stop playing.
- I can open Taskmanager, but not do anything with it
- I can't logoff or shutdown, allways have to use the power button to hard-shutdown

What I tried:
- run some benchmarks, to make sure it's not the hardware, at least not in an obvious way: Blender, Prime95, 3D Mark (Timespy), Shadow of the Tomb Raider
- I run a memory test (the one from Windows)
- I suspected WiFi problems and switched to ethernet
- I suspected iSCSI, switched it off
- I susepcted NZXT CAM, uninstalled it
- I ran a Windows repair
- I reinstalled Windows completely

 

...nothing really helped so far, currently testing with the updated driver versions: (lates I could find, except AMD):
nivida: 451.67
Intel WiFi: 21.90.2.1
Intel Bluetooth: 21.90.0.4
Realtek NIC: 10.039.0212.2020
AMD Chipset: 2.04.28.626*
* confusing thing with the AMD chipset driver: AMD's latest driver version for B550 is 2.04.28.626. MSI offers a driver for this board with the version 2.05.04.352. I am now trying the AMD version. First I had the MSI Version.

I try to keep an eye on temperatures, but they look good (CPU below 50°C, GPU below 50°C). It doesn't happen during workload (I didn't start playing games yet, would be to frustrating with this issue), just regular working, browsing, Youtube.

 

Additional notes:

- no overclocking, only XMP Profile for RAM.

 

Any other ideas?

If nothing helps I will try to run Linux for a while to see if it is hardware or software related...

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 3 3300X 3.8 GHz Quad-Core Processor
CPU Cooler: NZXT KRAKEN Z63 98.17 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler
Motherboard: MSI MPG B550I GAMING EDGE WIFI Mini ITX AM4 Motherboard
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory
Storage: Intel 760p 512 GB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive (OS)
Storage: Samsung 960 EVO 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive (Data)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce RTX 2060 SUPER 8 GB WINDFORCE OC Video Card
Power Supply: SeaSonic Platinum 400 W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully Modular Fanless ATX Power Supply
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro (x64) 2004
Case: NZXT H210 Red

Well . This might not help at all but it's probably worth a shot . What you can try is start event viewer and look at the application logs . See if there are any ESENT warnings . They might be 501 . 508 and a bunch of other ones . If that's the case open up windows updates and see if there are any available . I had these errors for a long time where windows default applications would spazz out trying to write data that it shouldn't be writing . It causes freezing and thawing effects where your windows will lock up for about a minute and then resume working . Sometimes there can be multiple ESENT errors causing a longer lockup . I always thought it was related to cam but it never was . I'm sure in most cases the only way I could fix them was updating windows ... also ESENT errors are inconsistent . It might happen once a day . Sometimes 10 times a day . Hope this helps

[NumberYellow]

Well, it happened again. I averted it yesterday, but it moved too fast this time. I was watching a video off a local drive when it happened. that's the 3rd time a video has triggered this.

 

I've disabled global c-states control in BIOS... let's see if that helps.

[passedpawn]

I had a lockup every few days until I abandoned CAM.  Not one single lockup since (many months).  So, whatever solutions you guys suggest, I can tell you that CAM was my problem.  

[adamshumpisxxx]

On 3/31/2021 at 1:04 PM, nzxt_jeff said:

Hi all, sorry for the delay - We have a build that may help us investigate this issue:

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/cam-columbus-dev/NZXT%20CAM%20Setup%204.22.0-dev-feature-disable-gc-cleanup.2.exe

 

If you've encountered this issue, please install the build above and leave it running. It won't function correctly as CAM, but it will help us pinpoint the cause(s) of this bug.

 

Thanks
Jeff

So, any word, Jeff? It's been over a year since this post was created and over 4 months since you've posted this debug build of CAM. Has there been enough data collected to solve this issue yet? Where are we at? Looking at it from our perspective we're basically seeing no progress. It'd be nice to hear something even if it's just that this issue is still being actively investigated or at least some sort of official release that this issue is known. Anything. You came here as the point of contact so from that I'm assuming you're the one who wants to field these questions. Thanks.

[NumberYellow]

11 hours ago, adamshumpisxxx said:

So, any word, Jeff? It's been over a year since this post was created and over 4 months since you've posted this debug build of CAM. Has there been enough data collected to solve this issue yet? Where are we at? Looking at it from our perspective we're basically seeing no progress. It'd be nice to hear something even if it's just that this issue is still being actively investigated or at least some sort of official release that this issue is known. Anything. You came here as the point of contact so from that I'm assuming you're the one who wants to field these questions. Thanks.

Here's the thing: Do we know for sure that CAM absolutely is responsible for this issue? there are posts either here, or on reddit (or both), from people experiencing this issue, who have never used CAM.

[mo44]

Despite having a fix that worked for weeks now I just got another freeze, the only difference is that a couple of hours before the freeze I tested whether my PC had any issues after coming out of sleep mode (I typically keep this turned off since Windows used to always have problems after going to sleep).

So I guess people should also try to avoid letting Windows go to sleep.

 

1 hour ago, NumberYellow said:

Here's the thing: Do we know for sure that CAM absolutely is responsible for this issue? there are posts either here, or on reddit (or both), from people experiencing this issue, who have never used CAM.

I seriously doubt an application can alone cause such a problem so I've suspected that CAM is just a trigger for some problem in Windows drivers.

[archibald2656]

Hello guys! The issue first happened when I changed my CPU from a 3600 to a 5600X. It could have been because of the bios update as well. What I did was I disabled Global C-State control in the bios and I've been freeze-free for at least 5 months now. I'd recommend for you guys to try the same thing to see if it works for you. 

[NumberYellow]

9 hours ago, mo44 said:

I seriously doubt an application can alone cause such a problem so I've suspected that CAM is just a trigger for some problem in Windows drivers.

I was thinking the same thing... Hell, it might not even be CAM acting as the trigger, and it's presence may be a coincidence. As i said, there are accounts of this happening to people who have never even installed or heard of CAM. Personally, my money is on a video driver, or something related to it, as i was rid of this problem (with global c-states control still on) for months, and then a few days after updating my video driver, it starts happening again.

[mo44]

5 minutes ago, NumberYellow said:

I was thinking the same thing... Hell, it might not even be CAM acting as the trigger, and it's presence may be a coincidence. As i said, there are accounts of this happening to people who have never even installed or heard of CAM. Personally, my money is on a video driver, or something related to it, as i was rid of this problem (with global c-states control still on) for months, and then a few days after updating my video driver, it starts happening again.

nVidia or AMD? For me on AMD it started after Radeon Software version 21.3.1 with the later versions forcing me to take a new PCI Bus driver. If you are on nVidia I'd love to know if you have a PCI Bus driver provided with the video drivers.

[Arnau]

15 hours ago, NumberYellow said:

Here's the thing: Do we know for sure that CAM absolutely is responsible for this issue? there are posts either here, or on reddit (or both), from people experiencing this issue, who have never used CAM.

well I don't know whats ur testing methods guys but I'll explain my case: more than one year with this issue, if I turn CAM on, it freezes. If I turn CAM off after the start.. it works without problems during days. Therefore its CAM. I dont wanna get into conspiracy teories but you guys sound kindda biased... 

 

4 hours ago, mo44 said:

nVidia or AMD? For me on AMD it started after Radeon Software version 21.3.1 with the later versions forcing me to take a new PCI Bus driver. If you are on nVidia I'd love to know if you have a PCI Bus driver provided with the video drivers.

and btw I'm using Nvidia GTX 1070 with a  i7-6800K CPU @ 3.40GHz  with asus strix X99 chipset motherboard still having the issue.. so what we all have in common here... its CAM software.

[mo44]

2 hours ago, Arnau said:

so what we all have in common here... its CAM software.

No, what we all have in common here is Windows, I don't ever use CAM.

[Orcblood]

15 minutes ago, mo44 said:

No, what we all have in common here is Windows, I don't ever use CAM.

Bruh it's CAM. All my problems went away once that software was disabled.

[NumberYellow]

8 hours ago, mo44 said:

nVidia or AMD? For me on AMD it started after Radeon Software version 21.3.1 with the later versions forcing me to take a new PCI Bus driver. If you are on nVidia I'd love to know if you have a PCI Bus driver provided with the video drivers.

Nvidia. currently running 471.41. This was the latest version, until 2 days ago. 471.68 is now the new current driver package, as of this writing. I do not know if it includes a PCI bus driver, i do know it includes a graphics driver, HD audio driver, USBC driver, and a virtual host driver..

 

 

4 hours ago, Arnau said:

well I don't know whats ur testing methods guys but I'll explain my case: more than one year with this issue, if I turn CAM on, it freezes. If I turn CAM off after the start.. it works without problems during days. Therefore its CAM. I dont wanna get into conspiracy teories but you guys sound kindda biased... 

 

and btw I'm using Nvidia GTX 1070 with a  i7-6800K CPU @ 3.40GHz  with asus strix X99 chipset motherboard still having the issue.. so what we all have in common here... its CAM software.

I had the problem for months...i forget at what point it disappeared. it might have been after a windows or nvidia update, i forget. i was rid of this problem for MONTHS, with CAM active... Combined with the fact that this is happening to people who have never even heard of CAM, This seems to indicate that CAM itself is NOT the root cause of the problem, and that it is either only acting as a trigger for something else, or that it's presence is entirely coincidental, and has no bearing whatsoever on the issue itself.

 

It's not bias, it's called observation of empirical evidence. Additionally, the one thing we all have in common, is windows....though i'm not entirely sure it's a windows issue either, but it wouldn't surprise me, given how much of a mess Win10 is..

 

 

1 hour ago, Orcblood said:

Bruh it's CAM. All my problems went away once that software was disabled.

You don't believe in coincidence, do you? Did anything else change about your system, around the same time? A windows update, a video card driver update? chipset update? BIOS update? This is the biggest issue with/best part about computers: a lack of standardization....certain hardware/software combinations might cause issues. As i said to the last guy, it MIGHT be a windows problem.. i'm not convinced of that yet, but it wouldn't surprise me, given how much of a mess the OS is, and how utterly lackluster microsoft's product testing regimen has been since the CEO position changed hands..

[passedpawn]

On 8/12/2021 at 5:43 PM, NumberYellow said:

You don't believe in coincidence, do you? Did anything else change about your system, around the same time? A windows update, a video card driver update? chipset update? BIOS update? This is the biggest issue with/best part about computers: a lack of standardization....certain hardware/software combinations might cause issues. As i said to the last guy, it MIGHT be a windows problem.. i'm not convinced of that yet, but it wouldn't surprise me, given how much of a mess the OS is, and how utterly lackluster microsoft's product testing regimen has been since the CEO position changed hands..

It's CAM.  Sure, maybe CAM is innocent and somehow triggering a fault in Win10.   So, choice for me is get rid of Windows or CAM... hmmm.  

 

BTW, I love Win10.  Very stable OS, especially considering the miasma of hardware and software it has to deal with.  Before this CAM episode, I hadn't had this type of lockup since before Win7 I think.  I've had apps die, but never the OS.  So, it's likely CAMs low-level handshaking with the MB or other hardware that's causing this issue.  Probably some maverick Indian programmer writing in AMD assembly code haha.  And lots of 

unsafe

{
	foo();
}

 

[NumberYellow]

32 minutes ago, passedpawn said:

It's CAM.  Sure, maybe CAM is innocent and somehow triggering a fault in Win10.   So, choice for me is get rid of Windows or CAM... hmmm.  

 

BTW, I love Win10.  Very stable OS, especially considering the miasma of hardware and software it has to deal with.  Before this CAM episode, I hadn't had this type of lockup since before Win7 I think.  I've had apps die, but never the OS.  So, it's likely CAMs low-level handshaking with the MB or other hardware that's causing this issue.  Probably some maverick Indian programmer writing in AMD assembly code haha.  And lots of 

unsafe

{
	foo();
}

 

Normally, i'd agree with you, however, you seem to have missed where i stated that people are having this issue, and have never even heard of, much less installed, CAM. How can it possibly be CAM, if it's not present?

 

I'm glad Win10 is stable for you...just because it's stable for you, does not mean it's stable for everyone. The fact of the matter is that Win10 is a buggy mess, that was not properly tested before release, because the department within microsoft responsible for that process, had been eliminated, and replaced with a handful of people from the (at the time) recently disbanded windows mobile team. The testing done on Win10 prior to release was nowhere near as through and robust as the testing done on Win7 before it's release. Microsoft, instead, relies almost exclusively on information collected from users. They use the userbase as the testing pool... we're essentially paying to be beta testers.

 

Windows went from a great OS, to the ultimate "early access" release.

[Lemah Lembik]

Hi, Its game hooking guys. Just disable the game hooking under setting>general>games and it will running fine. 1 month running fine without freezing. I think the cam optimized for Intel only, AMD left behind. This software developer is biased.