Soundcards

[DummyHeadGamer]

I recently went on amazon to look for a new pair of headphones for gaming. I was wondering if I could use headphones such as the Sennheiser HD 449 and buy a soundcard to get 7.1 surround sound? Any suggestions and comments will be greatly appreciated

[JAKEBAB]

dont buy a sound card! also u have 2 ears!

[helping]

buying a 7.1 sound card won't make your headphones 7.1, dummy head.

[DummyHeadGamer]

I had no idea I had 2 ears I just need a soundcard for artificial 7.1 surround sound, but I want to know if that will work first

[DummyHeadGamer]

Worth a try I guess Thanks anyway

[Langdon]

Use Razer surround

[Benjamin G]

dummy head.

Had a laugh here

[Sors]

I had no idea I had 2 ears I just need a soundcard for artificial 7.1 surround sound, but I want to know if that will work first

 

You don't need the soundcard for that, just use a program for virtual surround. Is gonna do the same that the soundcard would do.  

 

It'll sound the same because the headphones advertised as 7.1 also have just 2 speakers.

[mivanx77]

I recently went on amazon to look for a new pair of headphones for gaming. I was wondering if I could use headphones such as the Sennheiser HD 449 and buy a soundcard to get 7.1 surround sound? Any suggestions and comments will be greatly appreciated

 

I'm all for sound cards especially if your an audiophile. One of the best purchases I have made years ago was the Sound Blaster Fatality paired with the logitech Z-5500 for gaming and movies. One of the best investments I made because truely the crystalizers made a noticeable difference with DTS standard speakers. So the real question to ask yourself is, is it worth dropping a 100+ dollars for audio.

 

I have around 300GB of music, and I have never regretted purchasing at the time 180 sound card and nearly a 400 dollar speaker system for my computer. With the amount of music, movies, and games I have played out of the past and what my speakers have gone through, I definitely have gotten my money's worth from that equipment.

[creatip123]

What the guys were saying, maybe better if you try for yourself: 

 

Listen to the video using a pair of headphone, doesn't matter if it's a good or crappy pair. If it's crappy, just hold the headphone to your ears, for better isolation.

 

The video proves that you can get a 3D positional perception audio from any pair of stereo headphones. That's why the guys said, 'you only have 2 ears', meaning just a pair of stereo headphone will do just fine.

[mr moose]

I'm all for sound cards especially if your an audiophile. One of the best purchases I have made years ago was the Sound Blaster Fatality paired with the logitech Z-5500 for gaming and movies. One of the best investments I made because truely the crystalizers made a noticeable difference with DTS standard speakers. So the real question to ask yourself is, is it worth dropping a 100+ dollars for audio.

 

I have around 300GB of music, and I have never regretted purchasing at the time 180 sound card and nearly a 400 dollar speaker system for my computer. With the amount of music, movies, and games I have played out of the past and what my speakers have gone through, I definitely have gotten my money's worth from that equipment.

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic and forgot to put the tongue emoticon at the end or serious and telling people stuff that isn't true.

[Lauen]

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic and forgot to put the tongue emoticon at the end or serious and telling people stuff that isn't true.

I'm gonna go ahead and assume he's under the placebo effect.

[BrightCandle]

Have a listen to this with a pair of headphones without any surround setup:

 

 

Shows you the differences in the implementations and how they sound in a game like Battlefield. I still think virtual surround sound for binaurial effects is one of the main reasons to get a sound card. The Razor software version really doesn't sound as good to me as the main companies ones and personally I find the SBX Pro implementation to produce a better effect. Not all binaurial implementations are the same, but they are all software based. About the only one that is different is CMSS/SBX Pro. Both of those use genuine 3D positions in DirectX games whereas all the others simulate it from the output from the 5.1/7.1 surround sound speakers. That results in a better positioning result.

 

Its also worth mentioning not all games work as well with this. Some games for example use openAL and that is better without the surround sound setting and instead in basic headphone mode. You can also change the head related transform function on openAL which means you customise it in a way not possible with sound cards today. There is a holy grail in here somewhere, someone will make a card one day where we can record our own HRTF and load that into the card. Until that day openAL's swappable ones are about the best you can get, for everything else there is the the card based approaches. Anyway have a listen, determine which you think gives the best positioning and get that one.

[mr moose]

Have a listen to this with a pair of headphones without any surround setup:

 

 

Shows you the differences in the implementations and how they sound in a game like Battlefield. I still think virtual surround sound for binaurial effects is one of the main reasons to get a sound card. The Razor software version really doesn't sound as good to me as the main companies ones and personally I find the SBX Pro implementation to produce a better effect. Not all binaurial implementations are the same, but they are all software based. About the only one that is different is CMSS/SBX Pro. Both of those use genuine 3D positions in DirectX games whereas all the others simulate it from the output from the 5.1/7.1 surround sound speakers. That results in a better positioning result.

 

Its also worth mentioning not all games work as well with this. Some games for example use openAL and that is better without the surround sound setting and instead in basic headphone mode. You can also change the head related transform function on openAL which means you customise it in a way not possible with sound cards today. There is a holy grail in here somewhere, someone will make a card one day where we can record our own HRTF and load that into the card. Until that day openAL's swappable ones are about the best you can get, for everything else there is the the card based approaches. Anyway have a listen, determine which you think gives the best positioning and get that one.

 

Keeping in mind that which one sounds better is personal preference and most of the difference you hear is the result of eq not HRTF algorithm.

 

Also for surround to work, the game you are playing must be able to output 5.1 or 7.1  You don't need a sound card for this to work, onboard will do it just fine.

[BrightCandle]

Keeping in mind that which one sounds better is personal preference and most of the difference you hear is the result of eq not HRTF algorithm.

 

Also for surround to work, the game you are playing must be able to output 5.1 or 7.1  You don't need a sound card for this to work, onboard will do it just fine.

 

Onboard is represented as the Realtek algorithm. Personally I don't think it provides a very good positioning effect compared to the others.

 

You have said before its just EQ, and that may very well be the case, but he who asserts must prove. You have access to the video so you can make them sound the same on your system with just the usual frequency based EQ volume settings and let us know what those settings are. We might get slightly different results due to different headphones and sound devices but getting it really close and tweaking a little further on our end would allow us to get the surround effect of a SBZ on a realtek chipset and I think that would be incredibly useful. Until then I am going to assume the claims by the manufacturers and by other pro gamers and this listening test is a genuine difference that is hard to simulate otherwise. SBX pro and CMSS use positioning data and not just the output of the surround speakers to provide its binaural output. I have tried Dolby headphone and Realtek, and I have messed with the settings no end on positioning of speakers in the software and EQ etc and I can't replicate the SBZ effect, I just didn't manage to make it sound right. But your claim is that you can, so lets have those EQ settings to make DH or Realtek sound the same as the SBZ.

[mr moose]

Onboard is represented as the Realtek algorithm. Personally I don't think it provides a very good positioning effect compared to the others.

 

You have said before its just EQ, and that may very well be the case, but he who asserts must prove. You have access to the video so you can make them sound the same on your system with just the usual frequency based EQ volume settings and let us know what those settings are. We might get slightly different results due to different headphones and sound devices but getting it really close and tweaking a little further on our end would allow us to get the surround effect of a SBZ on a realtek chipset and I think that would be incredibly useful. Until then I am going to assume the claims by the manufacturers and by other pro gamers and this listening test is a genuine difference that is hard to simulate otherwise. SBX pro and CMSS use positioning data and not just the output of the surround speakers to provide its binaural output. I have tried Dolby headphone and Realtek, and I have messed with the settings no end on positioning of speakers in the software and EQ etc and I can't replicate the SBZ effect, I just didn't manage to make it sound right. But your claim is that you can, so lets have those EQ settings to make DH or Realtek sound the same as the SBZ.

 

Of course you can't make one sound like the other,  why would you even try?  That'd be like trying to use a preset eq to make one stereo unit sound like another.

 

I watched the video, you can hear it,  the position of the sound barely changes but the reverb effect and the frequency response does.  Neither of which require a sound card.

 

same with this one:

 

 

And one guy in the comments even points out that his version of razor with the onboard sounds better than the video, I think the guys reply says it all.

 

I'm pretty sure i set it for 7.1. Maybe my encoding have messed with the sound slightly. I have used razer surround with the DGX as i like to make use of the headphone amp and use the 'soft rock' EQ setting. I don't notice an improvement in POSITIONAL audio between using razer surround on onboard and the DGX. I have gone back to dolby headphone just for personal preference.

 

 

 

Personal preference is what it comes down to,  you don't need to buy a soundcard to get surround sound, and if you believe what the manufacturers are telling you then you should be having a breakdown because they can't all be the best.

 

EDIT: I am not going to spend a few hours on a DAW to prove what is blatantly obvious to a random forum user.

[BrightCandle]

If you can't make one sound like the other and one clearly produces a better sound that you find more accurate positioning wise then it would seem that there is value in getting different ones. Not saying that any particular card is better, but the fact is you can't have any of them and make it sound like the others, and that surround sound effect and its accuracy makes a big difference. One of the problems I have with the realtek and the Razor software is on my head when I close my eyes I can't tell whether the sound is behind me or ahead of me. To the front and left and right its OK but the SBX pro I can split the world into 16 or so chunks, front and rear. Now that might just be reverb and different frequency responses etc but its not something I can simulate on another card.

 

This plays out quite dramatically in a game like BF4. With my Dolby headphone based Xonar D2X I get pretty good sound, but the surround sound isn't very accurate in game, I can't determine height well enough nor the difference between front and rear. Yet with the SBZ and SBX pro its much much more obvious. It actually doesn't sound as good, the quality of the sound is missing something it sounds hollow comparatively, but the positioning is clearer. So unless you can get my some settings that turns one into the other in terms of effects there is value in having a different card, its clearly audible in these comparison videos and I think people need to listen to it themselves to determine what works best. Not all simulated surround sound is the same, its based on delay and frequency attenuation and different heads will respond differently to different settings. As far as I know there is no way to tune it to fix dolby headphone to make it SBX pro like. I would love to do as well because the D2X has a much much better mic input and the SBZ has quite a lot of noise on its highest boost. I would very much prefer to use the Xonar but its not good enough in games, the difference shown in these videos is quite a difference when playing.

[helping]

Until then I am going to assume the claims by the manufacturers and by other pro gamers

(Non-sequitur)

 

dude, what

 

that has to be the single worst idea and logic I've ever heard. Not in audio, in anything. 

capitalism the best

[EmoRarity]

(Non-sequitur)

 

dude, what

 

that has to be the single worst idea and logic I've ever heard. Not in audio, in anything. 

Nah, brah, they know what they doing. They wouldn't lie to the customer at all, its not like they gain anything from selling products or anything. 

[BrightCandle]

Its simple question - when you listen to the video can you hear a difference between the implementations? Does one give better positional cues to you? It does to me.

[EmoRarity]

Its simple question - when you listen to the video can you hear a difference between the implementations? Does one give better positional cues to you? It does to me.

Placebos! Also featured in one of my favorite Dilbert episodes.

[mr moose]

Its simple question - when you listen to the video can you hear a difference between the implementations? Does one give better positional cues to you? It does to me.

 

No one is saying you can't hear a difference between them, in fact we have all said there is a difference,  however that difference is not really positional, it is eq and reverb.  The issue most of us have is that you are insinuating that people need to buy a sound card to achieve a sound that may only be preferential to you.  We only inform people how it works and what we prefer, but in no way suggest they buy gear that has no clear guarantees of being better.

[BrightCandle]

No one is saying you can't hear a difference between them, in fact we have all said there is a difference,  however that difference is not really positional, it is eq and reverb.  The issue most of us have is that you are insinuating that people need to buy a sound card to achieve a sound that may only be preferential to you.  We only inform people how it works and what we prefer, but in no way suggest they buy gear that has no clear guarantees of being better.

 

Actually I am not. I am saying people should listen to the video and determine if they notice a difference, whether they prefer one over the other and let that factor into their choice for a sound card. The fact I find them very different and find postional cues preferrable on the SBX pro has little to do with whether they do and I say that everytime. I am not championing the need for a sound card if they can't tell the difference or the postional cues sound the same to them. I would love to like the Realtek implementation, would save me a tonne of money now and into the future. I want the Aureal Vortex implementation back frankly, that was much better for me than anything we have today.

 

However what was insinuated was in the response was that the only differences between them was EQ, suggesting that any of them could be made to sound like the other with a simple tweak. That is the assertion I take exception to because as far as I can tell its not even remotely true. But like I say if someone provides the EQ curve to prove it I'll sell my SBZ, use my onboard realtek and the tweaks and be a happy man. I don't want a soundcard, I want good postional cues and I don't get that from the realtek or Dolby Headphone so if its simple to get them I will take it. But until someone proves that the difference is just EQ by converting one into the other we should treat that assertion as FUD because it has no tested basis that I know of. Do we have a test that confirms this, a review, a double blind trial on it etc? Any evidence that this is true at all? Everything I have seen is about music fidelity and that isn't what I care about.