[EOL] PSU Tier List rev. 14.8

[Hairless Monkey Boy]

22 hours ago, jonnyGURU said:

PSU blade shape is different as it's somewhere in between high CFM and high static pressure.

So it's about impedance matching. I had a feeling that was the case. It makes sense that you need more static pressure than a typical airflow fan provides, but not as much as a typical radiator fan.

[Mordotz]

Been researching what PSU to buy the last few months, and I think I narrowed it down to the Corsair RMx and HX to be my best options. 

I didn't wanna make a new topic, as it perhaps seems like minor questions taking pricing into account of which would be more worth to buy to keep as long as possible (not necessarily future-proofing as the components age with use anyway if I understand correct) 

RM850x    $174
RM1000x  $223
HX850      $212
HX1000    $245

Prices are this high due to the country I'm living in, so it's more on the % price differences I thought maybe a HX1000 may be worth it even if current planned build would be a 3080 + 10850k? And if so, I assume the go-to config is just keeping it as multi-rail. I've trying studying single vs multi-rails, but my only real take-away has been that multi simply is "better" due to it being safer? 

[Juular]

@jonnyGURUSpeaking of refreshes, can we have a high-end Corsair PSU with non-split PCI-e cables as Seasonic does with Prime ? One can say anything about Seasonic but this is right, people need to understand that you need to use separate cables for each connector. And perhaps to stop caring about ripple that much, these in-cable caps are real pain in the ass, a lot of people prefer other PSUs with ribbon cables just because of that.

2 hours ago, Mordotz said:

I didn't wanna make a new topic

So you can litter this one ? Fine. If you really plan to get a second GPU (which i don't think is a good idea unless you mine or render on them), then 1kW PSU would make sense, otherwise id settle with RM850x. As of multi-rail, it decreases the chance of components damage in case of catastrophic short but how much i'd pay for it ? Extra $33 between RM-x and HX ? Probably not, even though HX is technically better PSU regardless of multi-rail.

[Mordotz]

1 hour ago, Juular said:

So you can litter this one ? Fine. If you really plan to get a second GPU (which i don't think is a good idea unless you mine or render on them), then 1kW PSU would make sense, otherwise id settle with RM850x. As of multi-rail, it decreases the chance of components damage in case of catastrophic short but how much i'd pay for it ? Extra $33 between RM-x and HX ? Probably not, even though HX is technically better PSU regardless of multi-rail.

Wasn't meant to litter... "i didn't wanna make a new topic", was meant more like I thought I would be littering more If a made a completely new topic to ask a simple question to the knowledge people here. My mistake I guess.
I was just reading through the topic And other tier list topics, where people often seem to both discuss the news/questions and advice when someone is torn between 2 in the same tier. Again my mistake. Haven't really used forums much before. 

I'll just go with a 850 one then with just 1 GPU as I planned. I was just considering the HX because I think electricity is expensive here (equivalent to 65 cents/kWh I believe), thus I thought the higher efficiency would be had been worth it. Furthermore at it could had been worth just going for 1000w, but thank you for your advice though. Much appreciated. 

[Juular]

@jonnyGURUAlso, back to the Seasonic Prime and Ampere problem, did you try to cut in the scope at GPU end of the PCI-e cable to confirm that voltages went low enough for UVP to kick in ? Does that mean that other PSUs that don't have v-sense on PCI-e just hammer the GPU VRM with with low voltage transients ? Did you try to see what's going on with PSUs that do have PCI-e v-sense ? Is it maybe just too sensitive on Prime or it's more like total capacitance on it is too low for compensate for transients ?

[Guest]

56 minutes ago, Juular said:

@jonnyGURUAlso, back to the Seasonic Prime and Ampere problem, did you try to cut in the scope at GPU end of the PCI-e cable to confirm that voltages went low enough for UVP to kick in ? Does that mean that other PSUs that don't have v-sense on PCI-e just hammer the GPU VRM with with low voltage transients ? Did you try to see what's going on with PSUs that do have PCI-e v-sense ? Is it maybe just too sensitive on Prime or it's more like total capacitance on it is too low for compensate for transients ?

The problem is not UVP.  The voltages are within spec.

 

It's noise on the sense line.

 

[Juular]

Just now, jonnyGURU said:

The problem is not UVP.  The voltages are within spec.

It's noise on the sense line.

Oh, so it's kinda related to the problem with Focus then ? Weltrend supervisor to blame ? Do you know how they fixed the problem with older Focus and Vegas, if at all ? Does that mean that they didn't touch Prime since it didn't exhibit the problem then ?

[Juular]

Also, can we pretty please, have a word from @Seasonic Rep? It was very good of you guys to address the issue with Focus publicly at the time. We as community very appreciate that (just as we appreciate Corsair openness about problems with their SF and HX PSUs). A good company is one that's open about problems with it's products. And there is a problem with Seasonic PRIME units and RTX3080/3090 GPUs right now, not that widespread perhaps but still. We don't need a very in depth explanation of what went wrong, just a simple statement of what you observe on your end with the data you have and what's your stance about that. Because otherwise all we have as community and your potential customers is rumor mill and a bunch of isolated cases we can't really make out a whole picture of. So the in the end it's better to just not buy Seasonic PRIME if you plan to get RTX3080/3090 and settle for other high-end PSUs out there, which is obviously not good for Seasonic.

[Sakee__]

@jonnyGURU sorry for disturbing, do you have any information about this new platform from Channel Well Technology?

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Sakee__ said:

@jonnyGURU sorry for disturbing, do you have any information about this new platform from Channel Well Technology?

It's their newest Bronze LLC+D2D.

 

[Juular]

On 3/30/2021 at 4:51 AM, jonnyGURU said:

All of Corsair's PSU fans except for in the Bronze units are made by Hong Hua.

Ones with Matsushita FDB bearing too ? Licensed for Hong Hua ?

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Juular said:

Ones with Matsushita FDB bearing too ? Licensed for Hong Hua ?

Yes.  But "licensed" is not how it works.  You can buy the bearings separate and that's what they do. 

 

You don't need a "license" to install an authentic bearing in a potato if you wanted to.

 

This is possible where buying the ML bearing is not because the Matsushita FDB is a literal swap in with a rifle bearing.  Where as the Sunon ML is a complete solution and they patented the bearing and everything around it (e.g. motor design, PCB, etc.)

 

 

[Quartz11]

Where does Be Quiet! Dark Power 12 750W/850W/1000W line stand?  Reviews I've seen so far look very good.  

[Juular]

59 minutes ago, Quartz11 said:

Where does Be Quiet! Dark Power 12 750W/850W/1000W line stand?  Reviews I've seen so far look very good.  

We're waiting for detailed reviews, those i've seen so far barely scratch the surface.

[Quartz11]

47 minutes ago, Juular said:

We're waiting for detailed reviews, those i've seen so far barely scratch the surface.

There are a bunch of reviews out, but none too thorough.  Really hope to see a thorough review soon.

[Takx]

Does this list get the analysis consideration of Cybenetics (https://www.cybenetics.com/)?

 

A example would be XPG Pylon, it is a bronze with silver capabilities, it can hold a middle tier system easily.

 

80 Plus list loosing their creditability if you research a little deeper.

[Quartz11]

There is probably a backlog of power supplies to be tested by Cybenetics.  It would be wonderful to have all the list PSUs tested for easy comparisons, but probably not realistic for testing time constraints.  I'd love to see a detailed review on the aforementioned BQ DP12, for instance, and it might already be in the pipeline--or not.

[boghubodaghi]

34 minutes ago, Takx said:

Does this list get the analysis consideration of Cybenetics (https://www.cybenetics.com/)?

 

A example would be XPG Pylon, it is a bronze with silver capabilities, it can hold a middle tier system easily.

 

80 Plus list loosing their creditability if you research a little deeper.

Efficiency does not imply quality. 

[RAZ0RLIGHT]

Is there a specific reason, why the fractal Ion+ isn't gold tier anymore? What would be a good and equally silent alternative?

[MrBrightSyde]

6 hours ago, Takx said:

Does this list get the analysis consideration of Cybenetics (https://www.cybenetics.com/)?

 

A example would be XPG Pylon, it is a bronze with silver capabilities, it can hold a middle tier system easily.

 

80 Plus list loosing their creditability if you research a little deeper.

I mean, the Corsair CX-F is a bronze rated PSU that passed the Silver certification, but it's labelled Bronze by Corsair since it's easier to market than Silver. I suspect this is the same with the XPG Pylon.

[boghubodaghi]

14 hours ago, RAZ0RLIGHT said:

Is there a specific reason, why the fractal Ion+ isn't gold tier anymore? What would be a good and equally silent alternative?

It was changed from gold to blue because its voltage regulation performance is above 1.5% on the 12V rail, the 560 and the 860 version to be exact. But it's very close to 1.5%, like 1.54% or something like that. A good alternative would be Corsair HX and BQ! Straight Power 11 platinum.

[RAZ0RLIGHT]

Isn't the HX kinda old by now?
Still worth it?

Also, in what tests were the 1,5% achieved, at the THW/Techpowerup test they were under 1%.

[boghubodaghi]

2 hours ago, RAZ0RLIGHT said:

Isn't the HX kinda old by now?
Still worth it?

Also, in what tests were the 1,5% achieved, at the THW/Techpowerup test they were under 1%.

I don't know why would anyone avoid a PSU because it's old... I mean it's still in production and its performance can rival modern PSUs so I wouldn't worry too much about it being old.

 

As for the tests it's on THW's 560W and 860W. To obtain every "voltage regulation" numbers we input the data manually from very low load test, low load tests, to the 10%-100% tests and the CL tests, while Aris only use 10%-100% for his "voltage regulation" numbers.

[Juular]

7 hours ago, RAZ0RLIGHT said:

Isn't the HX kinda old by now?

HX Platinum ? Not really, it was released in 2018. Other models are (Gold, Bronze, 80+, non-certified).

[Quartz11]

Hx is basically the same as HXi, no?  Other than the iCue integration.  HXi Platinum is from 2014 on.  What was the 2018 update for HX, and has an update happened for HXi since 2014?