Microsoft Surface Event

[Exprima]

19 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

No. They are correct.

Intel version of the Surface Laptop 3 15inch is only availible to Business customers. It has a 10th gen Ice Lake Intel CPU.

 

I thought they meant the consumer devices, but yeah for business customers the 15" can come with Intel.

[Uttamattamakin]

On 10/4/2019 at 7:02 PM, GoodBytes said:

The problem that the Duo has is that it is too big. We don't have measurements (and things can change form now until end of next year), but it looks like it is larger than a Samsung Galaxy Note. This is not a format convenient to use one handed (say you are using it on the bus while holding the pole, or simply carrying a bag with you on your other hand while walking up to the car). Considering how the device is thin, the battery is an issue. The larger size allows a wider and taller battery (and 2 of them) over thickness. But if they were to make a smaller device, battery life might be an issue. Anyway, I don't expect miracles from this first gen device. I think things will polish more with second and third gen. I am glad to see that they picked dual displays over foldable one. The technology for foldable phone is simply not there. Even after all the improvements that Samsung has done to the Fold, it still has displays durability issues. And in the mean time, all the devices at CES that was shown, are now not mentioned anymore by manufactures. I think they saw that the tech is really not ready. 

As a long time user of the Note 4 8 and (7 for just a day) I disagree.  I look forward  to the day when I can fold a note and pocket a tablet about the same size as the area of a page IF we cut off the 1' margins around the edges. 

[Tolrag]

I'm tempted by the matte black one, but i feel like if it gets a scratch, it will show more than on the platinum one. Any ideas? Anyone with experience with the Laptop 2 or other aluminium laptops?

[Fnige]

@Exprimawhats the battery life on these? May get one of these if it has good battery?

 

also would the 13 inch version ever get the AMD chips?

[LAwLz]

Anandtech has elaborated what Microsoft means when they say they have a "semi-custom" AMD chip.

 

It is essentially a Ryzen 7 3700U, but with 11 CUs on the GPU instead of the normal 10, while keeping the same TDP and clock speeds.

It seems like most of the other "custom" stuff is related to drivers for things like deep power state.

The CPU is Zen+, not Zen2, sadly.

[Exprima]

16 hours ago, SlimyPython said:

@Exprimawhats the battery life on these? May get one of these if it has good battery?

 

also would the 13 inch version ever get the AMD chips?

11.5 hours are the advertised estimates. No plans for AMD chips on 13" SLaptop 3.

[Fnige]

8 hours ago, Exprima said:

11.5 hours are the advertised estimates. No plans for AMD chips on 13" SLaptop 3.

dam ok

May get the X if i can do some light games on it

 

Waiting to see a ton of reviews for may things and hopefully decide whats going to be my new laptop for Year 10 on

[Sharp_3yE]

On 10/3/2019 at 2:01 AM, RedRound2 said:

If you want to play the game of firsts, then the Apple Pencil was the first one to add ire less charging before this new flat pen thing Microsoft showed off. And, Apple Pencil has also been praised among artists more compared to surface pen. Show me articles that point to otherwise, because the last claim was made up.

Never claimed the apple pencil was bad at writing. I just found it funny how dumb they were with charging. Then they were like "Yea that was stupid. Lets change our design to copy the Surface Pen." But also, artists do use the surface for art. I was just walking around and saw a guy in public using an older surface to draw his art in front of a Starbucks. He also had a different stylus then the surface pen cuz artists like particular things. 

 

Quote

The smaller one, seems to big to be a phone and The app support will be terrible (example, note series phones have been selling well for past few years, but how many apps take advantage of the S pen?)

It's phablet size yes. It is on the larger end. I've never been that big into large phones either but I do like more screen real estate so I'm intrigued but idk, might be to large for me. But this could be the next "note" pocket device that people end up loving. Yea, there won't be many apps developed specifically for the dual screen but just like with an spen, how many apps do you need to support a pen or be specific to the dual screen? IDK!

Quote

And who want’s to multitask on their phone, apart from like one or two cases I can think of

Everyone multitasks on the phone technically. We switch between apps all the time. There is multitasking on phones now and people use it. Especially when it comes to phablets like the Samsung Note. People have two apps open all the time. Sometimes people have a video play and do something else at the same time. Of course regularly we don't but when you want to it's great to have. I can think of a lot more then a couple situations to want to multitask. WHY LIMIT YOURSELF THOUGH?

 

Quote

And the durability. The connection between the two halves is thinner than a human hair

LOL just cuz the wire are "thin" doesn't mean they are not durable. 

 

I don't think you understand costs when it comes to manufacturing. A part that costs $0.10 you must multiply that by how ever many thousands or Millions of devices you make. Not only that, but it takes time to actually put the part onto the device. You have to buy those parts in mass, design the product so it can fit, then take the time to put the part on the device. 

Just to put things in perspective, if you go to a hardware store and look at wrenches from the same brand, they will probably 2 versions. Lightly sanded and tiny bit buffed and a smoothed version of their wrenches that are sanded and buffed so they are shinny and smooth. Just the time put into making wrenches smooth makes them 10 or 20 dollars more. Time is valuable, marterials are valuable. Many times it just doesn't make sense to do something cuz it simply costs more with little, nothing, or less in return. Everything has a cost. 

I'm not saying thunderbolt wouldn't be nice to have, I'd say manufacturing wise it might not make sense to put it in their device. That's perfectly fine. If you need it then buy a device that has it.

 

Quote

I’m never going to listen to music for 5 hours or 8 hour straight to earbud battery life wont make any difference

It's not about listening for 5 hours, although some people might listen to stuff for man hour playing music, games or watching shows or movies. BUT it's more the fact that you won't need to charge it when you use it multiple times. I've had earbuds die on me when I am trying to use them. So, if they simply last longer charging won't be an issue if you use them multiple times a day. 

 

Quote

That’s all theoretical. Their skype translation was terrible when i tried it. I doubt microsoft can do anything special here.

First, it's not just translation it really just types out the words your saying during a powerpoint presentation aka transcribing. Which that is not as hard and probably works pretty well since we already do that pretty well for phones and PCs. BUT it can also translate. 

They did it live on stage. Yea, on stage, planned. Real time Translation is hard. Even if it's not perfect it's better then not having it. It's cool, yes it wont be perfect. Duh. 

Quote

So again nothing special about this product.

Just because it's not special to you doesn't mean it isn't special to someone else. 

 

Quote

App support on android will me jackshit. Microsoft wasn’t able to make ARM on windows a thing because no developers cared.

No the situation was a lot different then not caring. It was that they would had to invest a time for an app that might not work as well or be as powerful for devices that they didn't have to buy.

Quote

Yeah, you have to start somewhere and this is the 23rd time microsoft has been trying to change windows to ARM. It never worked before, and i still think it wont work

Arm on windows is now different. You actually don't have to create a new app. Apps coded for 32 bit processors will work on these arm devices for windows (at least should). It's a thing called containers.

 

Will developers write apps to support dual screen devices on android or windows? Yes. There will be a handful that create certain apps that are just super awesome. It will just be a few though. Most apps in a way will work already, just won't be as optimized or as cool. BUT you have to start somewhere. This is the start. There will be more dual screen PC and Android devices. At least these extra wide foldable screen as well. 

 

Quote

Who actually pays for a separate data plan on their laptop and their phone? That is not pro, that is you being filthy rich, being too lazy to turn on your mobile hotspot.

@Blademaster91 said "A device intended for business use" Meaning a business gives out devices for their employees. An employee is NOT going to use their personal data for a company's business use. 

[RedRound2]

On 10/30/2019 at 9:13 PM, Sharp_3yE said:

Never claimed the apple pencil was bad at writing. I just found it funny how dumb they were with charging. Then they were like "Yea that was stupid. Lets change our design to copy the Surface Pen." But also, artists do use the surface for art. I was just walking around and saw a guy in public using an older surface to draw his art in front of a Starbucks. He also had a different stylus then the surface pen cuz artists like particular things. 

First off, I don't remember the context of any of these quotes and I don't have the time to check it, so I'll reply making a few assumptions on what I might've said

 

Okay,so you're saying Apple's wireless charging implementation was derived from surface. Last I checked the previous surface pen didn't need charging. It was only with this new one (I think). So technically, Apple came up with it on their own and Microsoft had no role whatsoever.

 

Honestly have no clue what you're just talking about or making up

On 10/30/2019 at 9:13 PM, Sharp_3yE said:

It's phablet size yes. It is on the larger end. I've never been that big into large phones either but I do like more screen real estate so I'm intrigued but idk, might be to large for me. But this could be the next "note" pocket device that people end up loving. Yea, there won't be many apps developed specifically for the dual screen but just like with an spen, how many apps do you need to support a pen or be specific to the dual screen? IDK!

Tell me a use case for two screens on a phone? A legit use case that you may need everyday. Calenders sorting and timetable can be one, but I myself am good at remembering most of it so I don't see myself ever using that. I could have YouTube playing, but that would usually mean I just want to listen to the audio and not the video itself, which Google can easily fix on current Android devices if they wanted.

 

Is dual monitors useful in PCs. For a lot of people yes, because things like premier pro or just comparitive web browsing with constant content shifting, in those cases it's useful. But most people can easily live with one monitor (heck these days a relatively tiny laptop). So do you really think this foldable would have any legitimate use outside extreme business cases? Also Android needs to change a lot for this to even be feasible using everyday (Multitasking on Galaxy fold is just a pain and people appreciate it mostly for it's big screen, which would not be the case here)

On 10/30/2019 at 9:13 PM, Sharp_3yE said:

Everyone multitasks on the phone technically. We switch between apps all the time. There is multitasking on phones now and people use it. Especially when it comes to phablets like the Samsung Note. People have two apps open all the time. Sometimes people have a video play and do something else at the same time. Of course regularly we don't but when you want to it's great to have. I can think of a lot more then a couple situations to want to multitask. WHY LIMIT YOURSELF THOUGH?

Same as above

On 10/30/2019 at 9:13 PM, Sharp_3yE said:

LOL just cuz the wire are "thin" doesn't mean they are not durable. 

Thin means they're much more prone. And that thing is expected to be folded and unfolded at least 50 times a day. So yes obviously I have concerns about it's longevity and having any sort of moving parts, forget stress and strain is just a huge downgrade from solid-state components.

On 10/30/2019 at 9:13 PM, Sharp_3yE said:

I don't think you understand costs when it comes to manufacturing. A part that costs $0.10 you must multiply that by how ever many thousands or Millions of devices you make. Not only that, but it takes time to actually put the part onto the device. You have to buy those parts in mass, design the product so it can fit, then take the time to put the part on the device. 

Just to put things in perspective, if you go to a hardware store and look at wrenches from the same brand, they will probably 2 versions. Lightly sanded and tiny bit buffed and a smoothed version of their wrenches that are sanded and buffed so they are shinny and smooth. Just the time put into making wrenches smooth makes them 10 or 20 dollars more. Time is valuable, marterials are valuable. Many times it just doesn't make sense to do something cuz it simply costs more with little, nothing, or less in return. Everything has a cost. 

I'm not saying thunderbolt wouldn't be nice to have, I'd say manufacturing wise it might not make sense to put it in their device. That's perfectly fine. If you need it then buy a device that has it.

What are you talking about? I didn't say anything related to manufacturing, or it's tolerances or anything.

On 10/30/2019 at 9:13 PM, Sharp_3yE said:

 

It's not about listening for 5 hours, although some people might listen to stuff for man hour playing music, games or watching shows or movies. BUT it's more the fact that you won't need to charge it when you use it multiple times. I've had earbuds die on me when I am trying to use them. So, if they simply last longer charging won't be an issue if you use them multiple times a day. 

By five hours, I didn't mean 5 hours of only music. You rarely ever need to use your earbuds for more than 5 hours at time, before you pop it back into the case. And as soon as you do, your listening time extends every minute and you basically can get 24 hours out your earbuds away from the wall.

 

And even if you do say run out, you'll easily get 1 hour of listening time if you plug in for 5 minutes. Which you'll need to do anyway since your phone battery will be out by then.

 

So it makes little to no difference having to have another device to charge. Plus you get all the convinences of having wireless earbuds, which are far greater than any slight inconvenience caused by whatever it you want to make a big deal out of.

On 10/30/2019 at 9:13 PM, Sharp_3yE said:

First, it's not just translation it really just types out the words your saying during a powerpoint presentation aka transcribing. Which that is not as hard and probably works pretty well since we already do that pretty well for phones and PCs. BUT it can also translate. 

Yeah, like our phones can get our speech right 100 percent of time. Google haven't been able to do it properly, the company who analyzes your data all the time to improve AI, so I really doubt Microsoft can do anything 'magical' here.

On 10/30/2019 at 9:13 PM, Sharp_3yE said:

They did it live on stage. Yea, on stage, planned. Real time Translation is hard. Even if it's not perfect it's better then not having it. It's cool, yes it wont be perfect. Duh. 

Just because it's not special to you doesn't mean it isn't special to someone else. 

It's a staged demo. My god, are you actually going to believe that. They once had a demo of continuos combo with Cortana, and look where Cortana is now (inside a dumpster fire)

On 10/30/2019 at 9:13 PM, Sharp_3yE said:

No the situation was a lot different then not caring. It was that they would had to invest a time for an app that might not work as well or be as powerful for devices that they didn't have to buy.

Arm on windows is now different. You actually don't have to create a new app. Apps coded for 32 bit processors will work on these arm devices for windows (at least should). It's a thing called containers.

Emulation layer takes a significant toll on performance. And Microsoft does not have a great reputation of making efficient and working software. Heck windows 10 is still half baked with settings now split between control panel and settings and I really doubt they can again do anything special about 32 bit apps.

 

My guess is handful apps will work okayishy while majority will just refuse to run. You can quote me on this and if Microsoft does pull it off, I'll admit defeat here. But it's Microsoft, so is wouldnt count on it

On 10/30/2019 at 9:13 PM, Sharp_3yE said:

Will developers write apps to support dual screen devices on android or windows? Yes. There will be a handful that create certain apps that are just super awesome. It will just be a few though. Most apps in a way will work already, just won't be as optimized or as cool. BUT you have to start somewhere. This is the start. There will be more dual screen PC and Android devices. At least these extra wide foldable screen as well. 

Yeah, it will be extremely slow and foldables are not going to be mainstream for at least the next 5 years. And the most popular Android phones lie on the mid segment so developers would be stupid to code apps exclusively for dual screen. Few might, but most of it will be an easy no.

On 10/30/2019 at 9:13 PM, Sharp_3yE said:

@Blademaster91 said "A device intended for business use" Meaning a business gives out devices for their employees. An employee is NOT going to use their personal data for a company's business use. 

Nah, in those kind of business operations, it's much more useful to have a business phone with data plan on it, because calls are important. Unless the business we're talking about is a hypothetical company that just loves to bleed money for no reason, no reasonable financial manager would give a green light to give each customer two separate data plans to each employee, so employees can save 2 seconds to turn on hotpot (and I case of iPhones and Macs, absolutely no effort as you can turn on hotspot from Mac itself)

[corsairian]

I just want a Windows phone again. If I could put windows on my Note 9 I'd be happy. Yeah, itd probably suck but I like things like that.

[Sharp_3yE]

On 11/2/2019 at 5:24 AM, RedRound2 said:

Okay,so you're saying Apple's wireless charging implementation was derived from surface. Last I checked the previous surface pen didn't need charging. It was only with this new one (I think). So technically, Apple came up with it on their own and Microsoft had no role whatsoever.

Nooooooooooooooooooooo.

It's just funny that apple had a design and it sucked so then they copied Microsoft. No one was doing a flat side with a magnet in a stylus besides microsoft. I just find that funny. THAT'S IT!!

Also, using a new technology into a device isn't copying cuz someone else also did it. I was talking about design. 

 

On 11/2/2019 at 5:24 AM, RedRound2 said:

Tell me a use case for two screens on a phone? A legit use case that you may need everyday. Calenders sorting and timetable can be one, but I myself am good at remembering most of it so I don't see myself ever using that. I could have YouTube playing, but that would usually mean I just want to listen to the audio and not the video itself, which Google can easily fix on current Android devices if they wanted.

Have you ever switched back and fourth between apps on a phone or looked at two different apps on the same screen on a PC? There's your answer. Now you don't have to flip between apps on a hand held device. Even something simple as copy past is easier when you have both apps open on the screen at the same time. 

 

On 11/2/2019 at 5:24 AM, RedRound2 said:

Is dual monitors useful in PCs. For a lot of people yes, because things like premier pro or just comparitive web browsing with constant content shifting, in those cases it's useful. But most people can easily live with one monitor (heck these days a relatively tiny laptop). So do you really think this foldable would have any legitimate use outside extreme business cases? Also Android needs to change a lot for this to even be feasible using everyday (Multitasking on Galaxy fold is just a pain and people appreciate it mostly for it's big screen, which would not be the case here)

Same as above

It's NEVER about "the old way still works" it's always about "OH this worked better so Ill use this." IT DOESN'T MATTER IF ANOTHER WAY WORKS! What's better?

 

"A flip phone still works. Why do I need a smartphone?" That's what you sound like. 

On 11/2/2019 at 5:24 AM, RedRound2 said:

Thin means they're much more prone. And that thing is expected to be folded and unfolded at least 50 times a day. So yes obviously I have concerns about it's longevity and having any sort of moving parts, forget stress and strain is just a huge downgrade from solid-state components.

Thin does NOT mean more prone. Why? Because different things have different properties or designs. One piece of metal can be 10x thinner then another yet 100x stronger. It all depends on all factors. 

 

On 11/2/2019 at 5:24 AM, RedRound2 said:

What are you talking about? I didn't say anything related to manufacturing, or it's tolerances or anything.

By five hours, I didn't mean 5 hours of only music. You rarely ever need to use your earbuds for more than 5 hours at time, before you pop it back into the case. And as soon as you do, your listening time extends every minute and you basically can get 24 hours out your earbuds away from the wall.

 

And even if you do say run out, you'll easily get 1 hour of listening time if you plug in for 5 minutes. Which you'll need to do anyway since your phone battery will be out by then.

 

So it makes little to no difference having to have another device to charge. Plus you get all the convinences of having wireless earbuds, which are far greater than any slight inconvenience caused by whatever it you want to make a big deal out of.

OHHHHhhhh My bad. I didn't have it quoted. I was trying to talk about your complaint of not having thunderbolt. Things cost money. Soooooooooo, sometimes some things are not implemented into something, cuz money and use case. 

 

On 11/2/2019 at 5:24 AM, RedRound2 said:

Yeah, like our phones can get our speech right 100 percent of time. Google haven't been able to do it properly, the company who analyzes your data all the time to improve AI, so I really doubt Microsoft can do anything 'magical' here.

No one said it will work perfectly. It's nice to have it though, even if it only works 80% of the time correctly. Translators are cool. 

 

On 11/2/2019 at 5:24 AM, RedRound2 said:

By five hours, I didn't mean 5 hours of only music. You rarely ever need to use your earbuds for more than 5 hours at time, before you pop it back into the case. And as soon as you do, your listening time extends every minute and you basically can get 24 hours out your earbuds away from the wall.

 

And even if you do say run out, you'll easily get 1 hour of listening time if you plug in for 5 minutes. Which you'll need to do anyway since your phone battery will be out by then.

 

So it makes little to no difference having to have another device to charge. Plus you get all the convinences of having wireless earbuds, which are far greater than any slight inconvenience caused by whatever it you want to make a big deal out of.

Sooooo, you want less battery and to have to charge them more often?

On 11/2/2019 at 5:24 AM, RedRound2 said:

It's a staged demo. My god, are you actually going to believe that. They once had a demo of continuos combo with Cortana, and look where Cortana is now (inside a dumpster fire)

Oh sorry, I guess you didn't understand what I meant. "Yea, on stage, planned." I meant that as, "Yes, it was a staged and planned demo so it's not what it would be in the real world. It still worked and real time translation is hard." I also said "Even if it's not perfect it's better then not having it."

 

 

 

On 11/2/2019 at 5:24 AM, RedRound2 said:

Emulation layer takes a significant toll on performance. And Microsoft does not have a great reputation of making efficient and working software. Heck windows 10 is still half baked with settings now split between control panel and settings and I really doubt they can again do anything special about 32 bit apps.

 

My guess is handful apps will work okayishy while majority will just refuse to run. You can quote me on this and if Microsoft does pull it off, I'll admit defeat here. But it's Microsoft, so is wouldnt count on it

My guess is that it will work just fine. You can quote me on that. 

On 11/2/2019 at 5:24 AM, RedRound2 said:

Yeah, it will be extremely slow and foldables are not going to be mainstream for at least the next 5 years. And the most popular Android phones lie on the mid segment so developers would be stupid to code apps exclusively for dual screen. Few might, but most of it will be an easy no.

I think I said this before to you. Gotta start somewhere.

 

 

[RedRound2]

On 11/5/2019 at 4:43 AM, Sharp_3yE said:

Nooooooooooooooooooooo.

It's just funny that apple had a design and it sucked so then they copied Microsoft. No one was doing a flat side with a magnet in a stylus besides microsoft. I just find that funny. THAT'S IT!!

Also, using a new technology into a device isn't copying cuz someone else also did it. I was talking about design. 

Wtf? How are you going to lay down any round surface and expect it to remain still? This is the third grade geometry. Do you really think Apple engineers were like "How do you lay a pen flat", and they looked at Microsoft? That's probably the most retarded shit I've ever heard. Also, pens have existed for a long while. Let's goto the other side of the table and look at Microsoft's blatant copy of iOS and macOS (Like most of macOS features and trying to somehow make ARM work with windows)

On 11/5/2019 at 4:43 AM, Sharp_3yE said:

Have you ever switched back and fourth between apps on a phone or looked at two different apps on the same screen on a PC? There's your answer. Now you don't have to flip between apps on a hand held device. Even something simple as copy past is easier when you have both apps open on the screen at the same time. 

Thi is exactly what I said. I rarely ever do something like that. Most normies are even unaware about multitasking and they tend to just close apps all the time. Other than extreme small cases, it's useless. 

On 11/5/2019 at 4:43 AM, Sharp_3yE said:

It's NEVER about "the old way still works" it's always about "OH this worked better so Ill use this." IT DOESN'T MATTER IF ANOTHER WAY WORKS! What's better?

But, its big, chunky, expensive, hae moving parts, effort required to unfold the phone and unable to glance at it. And apps. There's just way too many uncertainties and Microsoft has a horrible track record with new category devices (eg, surface, surface RT and its all the following reincarnations, Hololens, etc)

On 11/5/2019 at 4:43 AM, Sharp_3yE said:

"A flip phone still works. Why do I need a smartphone?" That's what you sound like. 

Thin does NOT mean more prone. Why? Because different things have different properties or designs. One piece of metal can be 10x thinner then another yet 100x stronger. It all depends on all factors. 

Coz a smartphone has atleast a 100 fold more functionality than a flip phone. Foldables have two screens or one massive screen. Both of it which i find useless for a mobile device in 98% of use cases of whatsapp, instagram, web browsing, etc

On 11/5/2019 at 4:43 AM, Sharp_3yE said:

OHHHHhhhh My bad. I didn't have it quoted. I was trying to talk about your complaint of not having thunderbolt. Things cost money. Soooooooooo, sometimes some things are not implemented into something, cuz money and use case. 

Yeah, and Microsoft just made cost cuts on something that everybody else seems to have no issues implementing, while charging the customers sky high price. God, you should be ashamed of yourelf for justifying this. 

 

The reason, which is so obvious, is microsoft's decision to go with AMD on 15inch version and to offer feature parity between devices (hence lack of TB3). Why they decided, probably  to increase their margins. ANd all reviewers have even told that AMD on laptops is inferior to Intel, so Microsoft decision is retarded one at best, in the interest of more $$$

On 11/5/2019 at 4:43 AM, Sharp_3yE said:

No one said it will work perfectly. It's nice to have it though, even if it only works 80% of the time correctly. Translators are cool. 

It HAS TO WORK perfectly. Why do you think voice assistants are not being used by most people? It's because it doesn't work 100 percent of time. You need basic things like that to be 100 percent reliable. And translations is worse because you'll never know when it mistranslated and that's going to be embarrassing as fuck. It's idiotic to be using half baked software like that in business meetings, which is where it is marketed towards

On 11/5/2019 at 4:43 AM, Sharp_3yE said:

Sooooo, you want less battery and to have to charge them more often?

No, it barely makes any difference, even after teh addition of battery and charging. And it offers way more features. Noise cancelling on some, fully wireless, multiple devices connectivity, etc. I have bose qc35 and even better than sound quality and ANC, I like the multiple device connectivity at a time (your show will automatically pause on your tv or laptop, when you receive a phone call on your phone) which is exclusive for wireless

On 11/5/2019 at 4:43 AM, Sharp_3yE said:

Oh sorry, I guess you didn't understand what I meant. "Yea, on stage, planned." I meant that as, "Yes, it was a staged and planned demo so it's not what it would be in the real world. It still worked and real time translation is hard." I also said "Even if it's not perfect it's better then not having it."

Transcripting, then putting it through a translate function, then text to speech synthesis. All three of them we've had for a long time. So it's nothing special. I could've made one (and i think it would be even better than Microsoft's because Ill use Google's much superior engine)

On 11/5/2019 at 4:43 AM, Sharp_3yE said:

My guess is that it will work just fine. You can quote me on that.

Lol, look at the Surface X reviews. It's terrible. Only 32-bit apps can be converted and those going though emulation are painfully slow and unusable. and I saw this coming since the day of the announcement, but no, people got to be fanboys and praise every other non-Apple company for doing something so stupid

On 11/5/2019 at 4:43 AM, Sharp_3yE said:

I think I said this before to you. Gotta start somewhere.

Yeah, but does that mean we keep recommending and buying half baked products that has a lot of uncertainties, which the company in question has always historically been bad at. This is where Apple excels at. And as long as it's not a fully baked product, it's just going to ruin the whole category, which has happened so many times before (remember fingerprint on laptops in 2005s, they disappeared for a reason, and Apple had to pretty much reinvent (and make it work as it should) it before it became mainstream)

[Sharp_3yE]

On 11/7/2019 at 12:36 AM, RedRound2 said:

But, its big, chunky, expensive, hae moving parts, effort required to unfold the phone and unable to glance at it. And apps. There's just way too many uncertainties and Microsoft has a horrible track record with new category devices (eg, surface, surface RT and its all the following reincarnations, Hololens, etc)

Were you born yesterday? Small devices have had moving parts before. Phones have been larger before. It's more about functionality. As long as the size is compact enough it will be used. Lots of people use phablets and they are large. Those people will love foldable phones. 

[Sharp_3yE]

On 11/7/2019 at 12:36 AM, RedRound2 said:

Wtf? How are you going to lay down any round surface and expect it to remain still? This is the third grade geometry. Do you really think Apple engineers were like "How do you lay a pen flat", and they looked at Microsoft? That's probably the most retarded shit I've ever heard. Also, pens have existed for a long while. Let's goto the other side of the table and look at Microsoft's blatant copy of iOS and macOS (Like most of macOS features and trying to somehow make ARM work with windows)

Apple had a crappy stylus design. Then they copied Microsoft. I can find that funny if I want to.

 

YES! there's more things that have been copied. I'm not talking about that. I simply find this one thing funny. THAT'S IT!!!

[mr moose]

1 hour ago, Sharp_3yE said:

Apple had a crappy stylus design. Then they copied Microsoft. I can find that funny if I want to.

 

YES! there's more things that have been copied. I'm not talking about that. I simply find this one thing funny. THAT'S IT!!!

you're not allowed to find such things amusing, it's against the laws of nature. 

[RedRound2]

22 hours ago, Sharp_3yE said:

Were you born yesterday? Small devices have had moving parts before. Phones have been larger before. It's more about functionality. As long as the size is compact enough it will be used. Lots of people use phablets and they are large. Those people will love foldable phones. 

 

I see you only took one part of my reply. Okay.

 

And are these devices IP rated? Are these devices as resistant to misuse as typical smartphone from today that’s protected with a decent case?

 And even if they do manage to make these issues tolerable to the point it shouldn’t matter to normal use case, there are other issues with foldable, at least right now, that just doesn’t make it a good buy at all. Apps need to come a long way and I would only want to use a foldable if it’s closer to replacing my laptop, than a device like my phone which I (and most people) use for texting, social media, camera, phone calls, videos, etc and none of these requires you to have two huge screens (in fact it becomes more annoying requiring you to unfold and refold for every small thing you want to do, and that’s where my entire standpoint for foldable is, especially Microsoft’s version)

[Sharp_3yE]

39 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

I see you only took one part of my reply. Okay.

 

And are these devices IP rated? Are these devices as resistant to misuse as typical smartphone from today that’s protected with a decent case?

 And even if they do manage to make these issues tolerable to the point it shouldn’t matter to normal use case, there are other issues with foldable, at least right now, that just doesn’t make it a good buy at all. Apps need to come a long way and I would only want to use a foldable if it’s closer to replacing my laptop, than a device like my phone which I (and most people) use for texting, social media, camera, phone calls, videos, etc and none of these requires you to have two huge screens (in fact it becomes more annoying requiring you to unfold and refold for every small thing you want to do, and that’s where my entire standpoint for foldable is, especially Microsoft’s version)

Well, I started a long reply and then i accidently hit the back button on my mouse and lost what I wrote. Didn't want to repeat it at the time.

Here's the problem though. I shouldn't waist my time replying cuz you make really dumb points.

 

Lets examine what you said here. "Are tehes devices IP rated? Are these devices as resistant to misuse as typical smartphone from today that’s protected with a decent case?" 

NO!! Of course not. That's why we don't use them. They are obsolulete. Why? Cuz there's new devices that are better. BUT WAIT! What are we debating here? OH YEA, we are debating about A NEW DEVICE COMING OUT NEXT YEAR!!!! So you're complaints about old devices is DUMB!!

Why did I bring up old devices? To show you that you're wrong about people's want's and expectations. 

 

It's like your complaining because you might not like something. FINE!!! You're NOT EVERYONE!! 

 

You: "I don't use multitasking. I want thunderbolt. I don't want new technology that isn't fleshed out yet. I don't want things that aren't perfect."

 

Me: That's fine but not everyone is you! MOST people do some foarm of multitasking and many would love a foldable device that folds out to reveal more screen. Lots of people would like earbuds that have more functionality to them. Lots of people wold be fine with a PC that can't do everything cuz people buy ipads, chromebooks and things. Not everyone needs things perfect. You can't have things perfect. You get what is out there. 

 

It's fine to not like certain aspects of these devices. I agree with you on certain of your complaints. But, just because you like or want something doens't make that product bad or wrong. 

 

I mean look at this statement. "Apps need to come a long way and I would only want to use a foldable if..." I agree that the devices need development and so do apps. BUt you can't go further without releasing the product. 

I think foldable devices are really cool. I never bought a tablet cuz I thought it was just a big smartphone I could only use at my house mostly. I have a PC so why use a tablet? Well, Now my pocketable device can become a large screen to do more stuff. 

[RedRound2]

1 hour ago, Sharp_3yE said:

Well, I started a long reply and then i accidently hit the back button on my mouse and lost what I wrote. Didn't want to repeat it at the time.

Here's the problem though. I shouldn't waist my time replying cuz you make really dumb points.

 

Lets examine what you said here. "Are tehes devices IP rated? Are these devices as resistant to misuse as typical smartphone from today that’s protected with a decent case?" 

NO!! Of course not. That's why we don't use them. They are obsolulete. Why? Cuz there's new devices that are better. BUT WAIT! What are we debating here? OH YEA, we are debating about A NEW DEVICE COMING OUT NEXT YEAR!!!! So you're complaints about old devices is DUMB!!

And you couldn't connect the two? Of course Smh. You can't IP rate something like the fold that has hinges. At least not with current implementations. We've seen how the fold gets absolutely destroyed with sand itself. And while Microsoft doesn't have a folding screen, they never talked about IP rating and I'm pretty sure it's because they don't have that. 

 

That is a step back and I and most people are glad that days when smartphones can't be taken out in the rain are over. Going back to being extremely careful, is as you said, Dumb.

Quote

Why did I bring up old devices? To show you that you're wrong about people's want's and expectations. 

That was pre-iPhone era. Nobody had any idea of a beautiful glass slate phone back then. When Apple did it, it pretty much changed the smartphone design philosophy just because it was plain better

Quote

It's like your complaining because you might not like something. FINE!!! You're NOT EVERYONE!! 

 

You: "I don't use multitasking. I want thunderbolt. I don't want new technology that isn't fleshed out yet. I don't want things that aren't perfect."

 

Me: That's fine but not everyone is you! MOST people do some foarm of multitasking and many would love a foldable device that folds out to reveal more screen. Lots of people would like earbuds that have more functionality to them. Lots of people wold be fine with a PC that can't do everything cuz people buy ipads, chromebooks and things. Not everyone needs things perfect. You can't have things perfect. You get what is out there. 

And your reply has nothing to do with the product in question. Multitasking on mobile is quite niche and people like Linus may have a use for it, but most people don't (check how many are aware about multitasking in general on phones, normies just close apps all the time, even if I tell them not to)

Quote

It's fine to not like certain aspects of these devices. I agree with you on certain of your complaints. But, just because you like or want something doens't make that product bad or wrong. 

It's half baked. And there's nothing wrong about trying something new. My whole gripe with this is the amount of fanfare this product is getting without knowing absolutely nothing about it. It's stupid and it's Microsoft of all people.

 

Just look at the Surface X. It's a staright up up failure of a product that received so much of fanfare when it was announced. The same will likely happen to the two foldables. Because Microsoft is so good at this.

Quote

I mean look at this statement. "Apps need to come a long way and I would only want to use a foldable if..." I agree that the devices need development and so do apps. BUt you can't go further without releasing the product. 

I think foldable devices are really cool. I never bought a tablet cuz I thought it was just a big smartphone I could only use at my house mostly. I have a PC so why use a tablet? Well, Now my pocketable device can become a large screen to do more stuff. 

Microsoft is the worst company to do this. They have pretty much no leverage over developers unlike Apple and Google who are much better suited to offer a device like this. And Microsoft also doesn't make the mobile OS, which makes it even worse.

 

And no, Microsoft device doesn't give you a large screen. It gives you two. I understand the appeal with galaxy fold, but having two separate screens is not a good experience. Don't you have the foresight to see that through? That's my issue with product. It's good for Multitasking, but I rarely ever do that. Opening normal apps that I use on my phone will just open on one screen while the other stays off. It's not a big screen, it's two screens and that's useless on a phone today. And I have to bare with the extra weight, bulk, the folding and unfolding for trivial task like checking my lockscreen, it's not practical, and I'm honestly shocked that nobody seems to have any foresight on how this would work in the real world.

 

Just because something seems new and shiny doesn't automatically mean it makes any sense

[Sharp_3yE]

On 11/13/2019 at 10:35 PM, RedRound2 said:

And you couldn't connect the two? Of course Smh. You can't IP rate something like the fold that has hinges. At least not with current implementations. We've seen how the fold gets absolutely destroyed with sand itself. And while Microsoft doesn't have a folding screen, they never talked about IP rating and I'm pretty sure it's because they don't have that. 

 

That is a step back and I and most people are glad that days when smartphones can't be taken out in the rain are over. Going back to being extremely careful, is as you said, Dumb.

That was pre-iPhone era. Nobody had any idea of a beautiful glass slate phone back then. When Apple did it, it pretty much changed the smartphone design philosophy just because it was plain better

And your reply has nothing to do with the product in question. Multitasking on mobile is quite niche and people like Linus may have a use for it, but most people don't (check how many are aware about multitasking in general on phones, normies just close apps all the time, even if I tell them not to)

It's half baked. And there's nothing wrong about trying something new. My whole gripe with this is the amount of fanfare this product is getting without knowing absolutely nothing about it. It's stupid and it's Microsoft of all people.

 

Just look at the Surface X. It's a staright up up failure of a product that received so much of fanfare when it was announced. The same will likely happen to the two foldables. Because Microsoft is so good at this.

Microsoft is the worst company to do this. They have pretty much no leverage over developers unlike Apple and Google who are much better suited to offer a device like this. And Microsoft also doesn't make the mobile OS, which makes it even worse.

 

And no, Microsoft device doesn't give you a large screen. It gives you two. I understand the appeal with galaxy fold, but having two separate screens is not a good experience. Don't you have the foresight to see that through? That's my issue with product. It's good for Multitasking, but I rarely ever do that. Opening normal apps that I use on my phone will just open on one screen while the other stays off. It's not a big screen, it's two screens and that's useless on a phone today. And I have to bare with the extra weight, bulk, the folding and unfolding for trivial task like checking my lockscreen, it's not practical, and I'm honestly shocked that nobody seems to have any foresight on how this would work in the real world.

 

Just because something seems new and shiny doesn't automatically mean it makes any sense

[GoodBytes]

On 11/14/2019 at 1:35 AM, RedRound2 said:

It's half baked. And there's nothing wrong about trying something new. My whole gripe with this is the amount of fanfare this product is getting without knowing absolutely nothing about it. It's stupid and it's Microsoft of all people.

It has fanfare because this is something that people asked. Even back in Windows Phone days, when Nokia, (later) Microsoft released phones with killer features and camera, people said, numerous times, why doesn't it have an Android version. The excitement is that in the recent years, Microsoft has been able to deliver things that other manufacture fail to do. Is it perfect? No. No product is perfect. They all have issues. Yes, things tend to get better over time. So you have these 2 things coming together, so people are exited.

 

Quote

Just look at the Surface X. It's a staright up up failure of a product that received so much of fanfare when it was announced. The same will likely happen to the two foldables. Because Microsoft is so good at this.

How is that a failure? It has excellent reviews. The only notable complaint the device has is the lack of ARM64 native programs... but you need an official launch of a device to even have developers to get it in their hands and be able to properly develop and test their ARM64 compiled version.

 

As we speak, Firefox, Edge Chromium (the New Edge), and Chrome has ARM64 version in the works which you can enjoy under early or late beta (depending on which software you are looking at). Adobe already announced that they are working on ARM64 version of all their CC suit of software including Photoshop, VLC has its fully featured desktop app already officially out. Microsoft already announced that they are well under way in working in a x86-64-bit emulator for Windows 10 on ARM (however, they inform that the performance impact will be greater than their x86 one). You need a starting point, and the Surface Pro X officialize this.

 

I highly doubt that they expect this device to fly off the shelf. The only people that will get the Surface Pro X are "business people"/"office-warriors" if you want to call them that, who also doesn't mind first gen hardware (and also it doesn't affect them, as everything works fine for them on it), and developers, at least for now.

 

Quote

And no, Microsoft device doesn't give you a large screen. It gives you two. I understand the appeal with galaxy fold, but having two separate screens is not a good experience. Don't you have the foresight to see that through? That's my issue with product. It's good for Multitasking, but I rarely ever do that. Opening normal apps that I use on my phone will just open on one screen while the other stays off. It's not a big screen, it's two screens and that's useless on a phone today.

Excellent, it doesn't target you. Buy something else. Do you see me complain about Samsung Galaxy S10 phones on how they actually suck in my eyes? I am clearly in the minority. Guess what? I didn't buy it, I bought a phone that better suit my needs and I paid far less. Everyone is different, everyone value things differently. And they are people willing to spend money for fun (in their eyes) feature, including those live emoji that Apple and Samsung has.

 

 

[captain_to_fire]

29 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

It has excellent reviews.

Here’s one which says it won’t dethrone Apple’s iPad anytime soon. 

• Its display is way too reflective and not as bright as iPad Pro
• It doesn’t have 120 Hz variable refresh rate 
• Surface X’s pen input lag is way greater than the Apple Pencil’s 9ms latency. 
• Safari performs better than Edge especially when scrubbing through a YouTube video 

I wonder which reviews are you referring? 

[GoodBytes]

3 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

Here’s one which says it won’t dethrone Apple’s iPad anytime soon. 

• Its display is way too reflective and not as bright as iPad Pro
• It doesn’t have 120 Hz variable refresh rate 
• Surface X’s pen input lag is way greater than the Apple Pencil’s 9ms latency. 
• Safari performs better than Edge especially when scrubbing through a YouTube video 

I see nothing that indicates that the device is not working as intended or properly. You are just pointing out comparison 2 completely different devices. Might as well compare a rock with a plane.

[Commodus]

46 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

I see nothing that indicates that the device is not working as intended or properly. You are just pointing out comparison 2 completely different devices. Might as well compare a rock with a plane.

Are they really that different, though?  The Surface Pro X is basically Microsoft trying to outdo the iPad Pro by offering a thin, high-end tablet that can serve as a laptop replacement.  The iPad Pro may be more for creatives than office workers, but I'd say they're in the same ballpark.

[mr moose]

13 minutes ago, Commodus said:

Are they really that different, though?  The Surface Pro X is basically Microsoft trying to outdo the iPad Pro by offering a thin, high-end tablet that can serve as a laptop replacement.  The iPad Pro may be more for creatives than office workers, but I'd say they're in the same ballpark.

Well, if the end users requirements are flexible enough then you could say they aren't that different, however  if you are reviewing a laptop then reviewers should hold it to laptop standard's and not compare it to a tablet.

 

Besides that, Goodbytes only said it wasn't a failure with many good reviews and explained one of it's main complaints.   We can find reviews that shit on all products, does that mean all products are failures?  nope.

 

 

[Sharp_3yE]

On 11/13/2019 at 10:35 PM, RedRound2 said:

 

you really missed everything that I said. But ok dude, ok. Not worth talking about.