Microsoft Surface Event

[Blademaster91]

7 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

If you want to play the game of firsts, then the Apple Pencil was the first one to add ire less charging before this new flat pen thing Microsoft showed off. And, Apple Pencil has also been praised among artists more compared to surface pen. Show me articles that point to otherwise, because the last claim was made up.

It doesn't matter if Apple did wireless charging first, there isn't a convenient way to store the pen with the device except for magnetically on the side, and Apple is going to get praise for everything they do.

You don't need an article to see Microsoft is implementing a better way to store the pen with the tablet.

7 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

Thunderbolt is also backward compatible. You make it sound like it’s a sacrifice and the cost of the device doesn’t justify it. Not specific, single port docking is only possible with thunderbolt. High performance peripherals, like high speed storage, 10Gbps Ethernet, external GPUs all need thunderbolt. And use cases are going to multiply in the coming years for the duration of the life of this laptop.

You're insisting everyone NEEDS a Thunderbolt port on a 2in1 laptop, except most people don't need anything more than wifi, a USB SSD,or the onboard GPU.

7 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

Who actually pays for a separate data plan on their laptop and their phone? That is not pro, that is you being filthy rich, being too lazy to turn on your mobile hotspot. Fine, it’s okay to have an LTE option, but to use that some holy grail selling feature, is stupid. And you like harping on apple, so anything is fine right. Apple held your parents at gun point so they should never get credit for anything new they bring and we all praise other companies for doing the same thing or even less.

 

Sure Microsoft SQ1 is going to run all apps flawlessly without any issues after emulation. Sure.

No, I'm giving credit where credit is due, you're bashing on anything that isn't Apple.

If someone has the budget for a high end Surface laptop, LTE isn't much of an additional cost,and is much better than plugging a phone into the laptop which drains the laptop battery.

The SQ1 is faster than the 8CX, and it should run 32bit apps as they would on an x86 CPU except maybe a bit slower, but we have yet to see how well 10X and the SQ1 run, yet you're quickly jumping to conclusions to bash on it.

[suicidalfranco]

7 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

I do give credit where credit is due.

lol pls no, stop.

It's one thing to give credit where it is deserved and another to blindly give praise simply based on who makes something. The later is called fanboying.

 

7 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

And who want’s to multitask on their phone, apart from like one or two cases I can think of, regularly enough to justify carrying such a product all the time? And they dont even seem to have a camera. It’s far from reality as of now.

"Who needs a 5'' phone when all you need is 3.5'' "

adapting your words to 7 years ago

7 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

And the durability. The connection between the two halves is thinner than a human hair, so I cant imagine the wire staying long especially when it can do 360 degrees

depends on the quality of the hinge, nothing to do with how thin the gap is between the two surfaces.

 

 

[captain_to_fire]

1 hour ago, Commodus said:

Microsoft's not making it available for pre-order because it's dependent on a processor and OS that won't be available until 2020. 

The Duo runs Android with Google Play Services

[Cameleon]

Need Surface Laptop 3 review with some CS:GO benchmarks, and keyboard comfort test.

[Commodus]

1 minute ago, captain_to_fire said:

The Duo runs Android with Google Play Services

It does, but you were referring to the Neo.  And like Microsoft mentioned, it's still looking for developer support with the Duo.  Right now, the Duo would struggle even if all of Microsoft's apps supported its features right away.

 

Personally, I also suspect Microsoft will update to the Snapdragon 865 (or whatever it's called) before launch, since releasing an expensive 855-based device in 2020 won't look good.

[captain_to_fire]

3 minutes ago, Commodus said:

It does, but you were referring to the Neo. 

When did I refer to the Neo? www.theverge.com/2019/10/2/20895128/microsoft-surface-duo-phone-foldable-screen-features-specs-price-release-date

Edited October 3, 2019 by captain_to_fire
Nvm, I saw that I once replied Neo...oops

[Commodus]

Just now, captain_to_fire said:

When did I refer to the Neo? www.theverge.com/2019/10/2/20895128/microsoft-surface-duo-phone-foldable-screen-features-specs-price-release-date

I literally quoted you writing "Neo."  Maybe it was a mistake, but you definitely referred to the Neo.

[Nowak]

Microsoft keeps saying they created a "new" device category with the Surface Duo, but...

 

dual screen devices have been done in the Android space before.

 

...several times, as far back as 2012.

 

(I know that's a tablet but the point still stands about this not actually being remotely new)

[rawrdaysgoby]

12 hours ago, mr moose said:

not really what?   It doesn't matter if the hardware is identical to last years model, if the only issues people can dig up are largely moot then the same reasoning still applies.

No all that means is that there are still other cheaper options that has better hardware. It still isn't the must buy.

[GoldenLag]

just a question to people who have poayed more attention than me. but isnt the Surface Laptop 3 15" the first ultrabook to use freesync?

 

https://www.amd.com/en/processors/ryzen-surface-edition

source for reference. 

[mr moose]

3 hours ago, rawrdaysgoby said:

No all that means is that there are still other cheaper options that has better hardware. It still isn't the must buy.

Who said anything about it being a must buy? The whole point of my comment rests on there being better options than a surface for the given argument.

[Nowak]

1 hour ago, GoldenLag said:

just a question to people who have poayed more attention than me. but isnt the Surface Laptop 3 15" the first ultrabook to use freesync?

 

https://www.amd.com/en/processors/ryzen-surface-edition

source for reference. 

Yeah, it says it right there. It has FreeSync. I don't think any other ultrabook has had FreeSync because there aren't a lot of premium ultrabooks with AMD out there.

[Exprima]

12 hours ago, Deli said:

 

From Anandtech

 

This is inaccurate. 13" only comes with Intel and 15" only comes with Ryzen

[Jotoco]

People go crazy because of thunderbolt. 

 

I would venture a guess that less than 0.01% of people that would buy a surface would really need one. 

 

USB C 3.2 Gen 2 gets 20Gbps of bandwidth and that should be enough for almost everyone. If it is not for you, than buy a mobile workstation or one of those creative super powerful laptops. 

 

If you are willing to shell another USD$1000 and add a handful of pounds to your backpack to game or create on the go, I think something like the Asus pro duo is more of a thing for than a super light and super thin laptop. 

 

I have a pro 6 and even USB 3.1 can drive external monitor + storage + Ethernet just fine. And with bandwidth to spare. 

 

Just how many people carry super fast ram drives on thunderbolt enclosures and need those on the go alongside 2 4k 120Hz monitor, gigabit Ethernet, and external dgpu? Do you really carry all this to your local Starbucks? Do you balance that on an airplane tray? Those setups are way heavier, bulkier and harder to transport than a mini itx based pc that could have all inside it and a nobreak/big battery pack for a battery use. 

 

---------

 

All in all I feel this event was more about next year before it leaks or someone comes first than major upgrades to this year line up. 

 

Pro 7 is a small upgrade from 6.

 

Pro X is more of a concept thingie, but I think it will sell really well and force developers to recompile to arm. It will be serious competition for the iPad pro. It will be nice to see what the gpu can do as it is, in theory, a lot faster than even the Ryzen 7 laptop. 

 

Laptop, IMO, have the most significant upgrade on its repairability. This will make it be adopted by It departments. If the AMD has significant graphics performance it may erode the market share of the surface book and other thin and graphics, but I'm not holding my breath until zen 2 + Navi arrives. 

 

Neo and Duo aren't concept because they already exist and can be touched and used. It seems the software needs more maturing than the hardware at this point.

 

I expect the Neo to be a game changer. Even before it hits other manufacturers may launch clones. The keyboard is the real chamfer because of the flexibility, and I love it. I would want one when it launched if I can afford it. 

 

Duo is nice and may push the industry in that direction, it may be a nice compromise while foldable screens mature and will be a development platform while those screens evolve to a point you can have a device like that and not fear putting it on and out of your pocket, 

 

Was a good but not great event and I think it is a shame the Go and Book didn't have a chance for a refresh. 

A small Pro X for cheaper would be killer. But I guess the development costs are too high for it to be profitable to build a cheaper device. 

 

 

 

 

[Deli]

3 hours ago, Exprima said:

This is inaccurate. 13" only comes with Intel and 15" only comes with Ryzen

So both Anandtech and Tom's Hardware get it wrong. Thanks for the information.

[Deli]

Wow, Microsoft has a lot of faith with AMD. A fully loaded 15" Surface 3 is $2099. I hope people don't find the CPU underpower.

[GoodBytes]

7 hours ago, Deli said:

So both Anandtech and Tom's Hardware get it wrong. Thanks for the information.

No. They are correct.

Intel version of the Surface Laptop 3 15inch is only availible to Business customers. It has a 10th gen Ice Lake Intel CPU.

 

[RedRound2]

On 10/3/2019 at 3:35 PM, TechyBen said:

And Wacom don;t even need charging. GET OUT:

So, wacom's implementation doesn't have a tilt sensor? That's sad. And charging is hardly an issue in newer ones because it automatically charges. Again, it wasn't a comparison, it a reply to someone who played the game of firsts (which is ridiculous to begin with IMO)

23 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

It doesn't matter if Apple did wireless charging first, there isn't a convenient way to store the pen with the device except for magnetically on the side, and Apple is going to get praise for everything they do.

And you're nitpicking here. Okay fine there's something to store, so what? Did i say anything about it. Also early previews said that the flat pens feels weird and if the stylus comes in form over functionality, that honestly a deal breaker for any stylus users

23 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

You're insisting everyone NEEDS a Thunderbolt port on a 2in1 laptop, except most people don't need anything more than wifi, a USB SSD,or the onboard GPU.

14 hours ago, Jotoco said:

People go crazy because of thunderbolt. 

snip

Having the fucking option, is what is great about it. There is no fucking excuse why Microsoft couldn't implement it, especially with what they're charging and especially when it's positioned as a premium product. Stop fucking justifying actions they took to improve their margins and nothing else. No regular customers are going to buy Surface products, only people with slightly more knowledge about tech industry and they sure as well will know about thunderbolt 3 and what it brings to the table.

 

And having a one dock system is very common among the audience this laptop is targeted at. Look at all 15" Macbook Pro users

23 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

No, I'm giving credit where credit is due, you're bashing on anything that isn't Apple.

If someone has the budget for a high end Surface laptop, LTE isn't much of an additional cost,and is much better than plugging a phone into the laptop which drains the laptop battery.

The SQ1 is faster than the 8CX, and it should run 32bit apps as they would on an x86 CPU except maybe a bit slower, but we have yet to see how well 10X and the SQ1 run, yet you're quickly jumping to conclusions to bash on it.

LTE isn't much of an additional cost? Are you crazy? Paying monthly $20 extra for LTE is definitely an additional cost. And there's nothing new about since, every qualcomm PC grade CPUs have always had LTE. Thank qualcomm for having that functionality, not microsoft.

23 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

lol pls no, stop.

It's one thing to give credit where it is deserved and another to blindly give praise simply based on who makes something. The later is called fanboying.

I have praised Microsoft, google, samsung before. You can find it in the forum. I just don't engage too much in the forum when it's non apple related because the comments are usually appropriate. When it's Apple of course, people treat them as if Apple slept with their mother and robbed all their money. And I only commented here because it was baffling to me how people went nuts over a the most iterative update in the history of tech products for Surface and Surface Laptop (AMD is exciting, but it's AMD, not microsoft). Surface X is old trick with new name and and the concept devices are just concepts with promise of great things, as usual with microsoft. They only survived the last 5 years because of Bill Gates brilliant plan to capture the entire market with windows and office suite.

23 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

"Who needs a 5'' phone when all you need is 3.5'' "

adapting your words to 7 years ago

depends on the quality of the hinge, nothing to do with how thin the gap is between the two surfaces.

My words? Never said anything about phone sizes. I've never felt the need to multitask on my phone because it just isn't versatile enough, nor do I have any use cases. Unless there's a major shift in UI or Android OS capability, it'll be still the same. The galaxy fold's appeal was never about multitasking, it was the big screen. But we don't have a big screen here due to seperation, and it's just two screen sandwitched into a relatively clean packaging

 

[suicidalfranco]

3 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

My words? Never said anything about phone sizes

On 10/3/2019 at 11:01 AM, RedRound2 said:

And who want’s to multitask on their phone, apart from like one or two cases I can think of, regularly enough to justify carrying such a product all the time? And they dont even seem to have a camera. It’s far from reality as of now

analogy. Do you speak it?

 

 

[mr moose]

4 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

Having the fucking option, is what is great about it. There is no fucking excuse why Microsoft couldn't implement it, especially with what they're charging and especially when it's positioned as a premium product. Stop fucking justifying actions they took to improve their margins and nothing else. No regular customers are going to buy Surface products, only people with slightly more knowledge about tech industry and they sure as well will know about thunderbolt 3 and what it brings to the table.

 

 

What justifications?  So far people are just reminding you that TB is not the be all and end all feature you made it out to be.   If you want to talk about features that should be included in "premium products" lets talk about sd cards in iphones or 3.5 jacks.     You are harping on about a feature that is neither here nor there for the product it is and trying to make is sound like a grievous crime has been committed against consumers.

[Tolrag]

Personally I've never needed a TB3 port. I know i'm not a tech specialist, but i'll be fine with bluetooth and the type A usb port for peripherals. For everything else, the USB C port is pretty versatile. You can still be charging your laptop while using it. For things it does not do, there is the jack port for audio. And yes, you wont be able to use an external GPU without TB I guess, but there are a lot of way better options for gaming anyway.

 

Sure, you can be disappointed to not have it, and it can be a deal breaker for you. But just as Mr moose said, it is just not a big deal for the majority of people. If it actually is, they will sell less units and might think about adding it. 

[nephithegood]

I really liked this launch. I was hoping for a Surface Book 3, but, oh well. 

I did find it interesting that the Surface Pro 7 includes Intel's new iris plus graphics for both the i5 and i7 versions. From what I've been able to find, the new graphics are competitive with AMD's Vega 10 graphics and the processors are a nice bump up from the old versions. 

I am a bit disappointed though that they didn't increase the screen size of the Pro 7, while they did increase the size of the Pro X even though they have fairly similar form factors. I also don't understand why the base i5 model still only has a 128 GB ssd or why it costs $300 to upgrade it to 256 GB. That made more sense 4 years ago with the Pro 4, but now it's kind of annoying. 

I think Thunderbolt 3 would have been nice, but I would have only ever used it for a dGPU. Also, considering I do most gaming on a desktop anyways, it is hard to justify buying a dGPU with how much many cost.

Someone mentioned that they've never seen someone use a Surface Pro without a keyboard. I did. I originally didn't even buy the keyboard. I used my Pro 4 and the pen to take notes in college all the time. It was my favorite way to take notes and they keyboard can get in the way. I also prefer removing the keyboard to watch movies, especially in bed. I honestly regret selling my Pro 4. I liked it a lot better than my current laptop.

People have mentioned that they can't think of use for the Surface Duo. They showed several uses during the event and I found all of them applicable. Using split screen on a phone can often be a pain. Another thing I find annoying, is playing a game or watching a movie on my phone and receiving a text. It's always a pain to try and switch between the texting app and whatever else I'm doing. Especially if I want to have a conversation with this person while I'm watching a video. I like the idea of the Surface Duo for that reason alone.

[Tolrag]

12 minutes ago, nephithegood said:

Another thing I find annoying, is playing a game or watching a movie on my phone and receiving a text. It's always a pain to try and switch between the texting app and whatever else I'm doing. Especially if I want to have a conversation with this person while I'm watching a video. I like the idea of the Surface Duo for that reason alone.

For me, it is not worth getting a duo for that, but I actually think it is a good point and a good example of use case. 

[GoodBytes]

1 hour ago, nephithegood said:

I did find it interesting that the Surface Pro 7 includes Intel's new iris plus graphics for both the i5 and i7 versions. From what I've been able to find, the new graphics are competitive with AMD's Vega 10 graphics and the processors are a nice bump up from the old versions. 

I am a bit disappointed though that they didn't increase the screen size of the Pro 7, while they did increase the size of the Pro X even though they have fairly similar form factors. I also don't understand why the base i5 model still only has a 128 GB ssd or why it costs $300 to upgrade it to 256 GB. That made more sense 4 years ago with the Pro 4, but now it's kind of annoying. 

I think this was a strategic move. They want people to get the Surface Pro X, they want people to experience Windows 10 on ARM. I hope it does pick up and is a success to some degree (I don't expect a massive success, and I don't think MS expects one as well) to have OEMs actually invest in making ARM based devices, with effort. If it picks up, this will be a massive blow to Intel. And a massive win for consumers, as now we have competition. Intel can no longer sleep, and can no longer charge consumers and manufactures ridiculous prices that only serves for pushing higher and higher profits. But that can only happen if Microsoft execution of this device is really good. If it has problem left and right and not fixed soon, or performance is poor, then it will lead to nothing.

 

I expect that the Surface Pro 8 have all the features of the Pro X.

 

1 hour ago, nephithegood said:

Someone mentioned that they've never seen someone use a Surface Pro without a keyboard. I did. I originally didn't even buy the keyboard. I used my Pro 4 and the pen to take notes in college all the time. It was my favorite way to take notes and they keyboard can get in the way. I also prefer removing the keyboard to watch movies, especially in bed. I honestly regret selling my Pro 4. I liked it a lot better than my current laptop.

I also remove the keyboard. I find that if you flip the keyboard on the back and have it slide a bit on the side as you don't hold it well, or use it on uneven surfaces like on the bed or pillow and type on it, the keyboard can ripe over time where the connector is, and eventually break the ribbon cable, which means, you'll need to cash out another keyboard cover. If you are not abusing it, it holds up fine. This comes from experience with my Pro 3, which I still use today (that said, it is soon time for an upgrade, maybe next year. Performance is no longer fitting my needs anymore).

 

1 hour ago, nephithegood said:

People have mentioned that they can't think of use for the Surface Duo. They showed several uses during the event and I found all of them applicable. Using split screen on a phone can often be a pain. Another thing I find annoying, is playing a game or watching a movie on my phone and receiving a text. It's always a pain to try and switch between the texting app and whatever else I'm doing. Especially if I want to have a conversation with this person while I'm watching a video. I like the idea of the Surface Duo for that reason alone.

The problem that the Duo has is that it is too big. We don't have measurements (and things can change form now until end of next year), but it looks like it is larger than a Samsung Galaxy Note. This is not a format convenient to use one handed (say you are using it on the bus while holding the pole, or simply carrying a bag with you on your other hand while walking up to the car). Considering how the device is thin, the battery is an issue. The larger size allows a wider and taller battery (and 2 of them) over thickness. But if they were to make a smaller device, battery life might be an issue. Anyway, I don't expect miracles from this first gen device. I think things will polish more with second and third gen. I am glad to see that they picked dual displays over foldable one. The technology for foldable phone is simply not there. Even after all the improvements that Samsung has done to the Fold, it still has displays durability issues. And in the mean time, all the devices at CES that was shown, are now not mentioned anymore by manufactures. I think they saw that the tech is really not ready. 

[TechyBen]

12 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

So, wacom's implementation doesn't have a tilt sensor? That's sad. And charging is hardly an issue in newer ones because it automatically charges. Again, it wasn't a comparison, it a reply to someone who played the game of firsts (which is ridiculous to begin with IMO)

 

What are you talking about? Wacom can have a tilt sensor... IIRC the note 10 might have it, but most don't bother for phones due to the size making it a redundant feature.

Do you want to actually take note of reality over fanboyism?

 

As said. Wacom don't *need* charging. But go on assuming you even know what the Wacom stylus even does instead of looking it up, or realise, it offers all the features without any charging (and in the case of Note 9/10 offers additional features if charged, such as bluetooth remote link up).