Microsoft Surface Event

[Deli]

 

From Anandtech

 

[Tolrag]

What's your source? Lots of question marks in there

[Deli]

Just now, Tolrag said:

What's your source? Lots of question marks in there

From Anandtech

[Tolrag]

Alright, i'm going to believe Microsoft's own website more for now, we'll see. Not that I don't want to believe you (having choice would be better for cpus)

[GoodBytes]

4 hours ago, Doobeedoo said:

Well great for USB-C finally. The 15" Surface laptop is looking nice. 

As for those dual display devices, I don't know really, nothing special to me, also different type of OS just for that? 

Yes. Because it drops a lot of legacy stuff that is not adapted for high-DPI properly, let alone multi-display, let alone GPU render.

 

The new OS is supposed to be this adaptable OS to fit any future form factor and shapes. It only has new technology supported natively and similarly to Linux based OS, it is largely or fully (we don't know) modular, meaning feature set can be added or removed by OEM to best fit the device. Things it can do that we know: the GUI can also be replaced.

 

Speaking of GUI, it no longer uses Shell32, instead it uses this new thing called CShell, which you can see in action with the Surface Hub, if you have access to one. This could also mean that Win32 programs support will no longer work. It will be UWP only, however, we do know from leaks that attempts to make Win32 modular component that can be added for support is in the works. If it is a success or not, we don't know. That said, Win32 has no support for what you saw what the deice can do. However UWP perfectly can. That is probably why MS is seeking developer support. So that devs/companies, port their software to UWP framework an uses the new APIs to do all the multi-screen smartness that you saw.

[GoldenLag]

7 minutes ago, Deli said:

 

 

From Anandtech

 

for now at least, Microsoft havent released a pre-order or any info on a 15" intel model from what i can tell

[LAwLz]

6 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

for now at least, Microsoft havent released a pre-order or any info on a 15" intel model from what i can tell

I thought they would have an Intel version of the 15" too, but Anandtech might be wrong on that.

I can't find any other site saying there will be a 15" Intel model.

[Deli]

1 minute ago, GoldenLag said:

for now at least, Microsoft havent released a pre-order or any info on a 15" intel model from what i can tell

 

Tom's hardware

"Microsoft announced today at its launch event that it has infused its Surface Laptop 3 with new "AMD Ryzen Surface Edition" processors that consist of custom AMD APUs with Radeon RX Vega GPUs specifically tailored for the new 6th-gen Microsoft laptop. The new AMD processors will come in some 15" Surface Laptop 3 models, while Intel's 10th-gen 10nm Ice Lake processors will power both 13.5" and 15" models. "

 

I find this information at Tom's hardware. Some youtube reviewers also only mention the 15' models with AMD CPUs. A little confusing.

[GoldenLag]

5 minutes ago, Deli said:

 

Tom's hardware

"Microsoft announced today at its launch event that it has infused its Surface Laptop 3 with new "AMD Ryzen Surface Edition" processors that consist of custom AMD APUs with Radeon RX Vega GPUs specifically tailored for the new 6th-gen Microsoft laptop. The new AMD processors will come in some 15" Surface Laptop 3 models, while Intel's 10th-gen 10nm Ice Lake processors will power both 13.5" and 15" models. "

 

I find this information at Tom's hardware. Some youtube reviewers also only mention the 15' models with AMD CPUs. A little confusing.

confusion of wording during the event perhaps? many of these articles come out literal minutes after the thing was done. 

[Tolrag]

Also, would AMD or INTEL be fine being in the exact same laptops, ready to be compared apples to apples? Would they agree on that?

[GoldenLag]

1 minute ago, Tolrag said:

Also, would AMD or INTEL be fine being in the exact same laptops, ready to be compared apples to apples? Would they agree on that?

this is by far not the only laptop they are in together. x360 and the Lenovo thinkpads have both among many others. 

[Tolrag]

Thanks, i'm new to the laptop market thing

[captain_to_fire]

I think the Surface Duo (aka Surface phone) is ugly especially with those bezels. Just saying.

[Tolrag]

18 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

I think the Surface Duo (aka Surface phone) is ugly especially with those bezels. Just saying.

I have mixed feelings. Personally, I just don't like foldable or dual screens phones because it defeats the purpose, for myself at least. I need a phone to be quick, light, have a good battery, and be easy to use one-handed. If I want something to do more heavy tasks, i'll just sit down and use a computer.

 

The thing i don't like aesthetically is the middle bezel, because it is not very thin and it is shiny. I feel like because of it the link between the two screens is not very natural.

 

About the other bezels, I agree with you. They seemed unnecessarily large.

 

Who would actually use this kind of device day-to-day?

[captain_to_fire]

4 hours ago, Tolrag said:

Who would actually use this kind of device day-to-day?

I think Microsoft knew that no one would buy their Surface Duo today in a market full of Samsung and iPhones, that's probably the reason they didn't put it in pre-order today.

Edited October 3, 2019 by captain_to_fire

[Doobeedoo]

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

Yes. Because it drops a lot of legacy stuff that is not adapted for high-DPI properly, let alone multi-display, let alone GPU render.

The OS is supposed to be this adaptable OS to fit any future form factor and shapes. It only has new technology supported natively and similarly to Linux based OS, it is largely or fully (we don't know) modular, meaning feature set can be added or removed by OEM to best fit the device. The GUI can also be replaced. Speaking of GUI, it no longer uses Shell32, instead it uses this new thing called CShell, which you can see in action with the Surface Hub, if you have access to one. This could also mean that Win32 programs support will no longer work. It will be UWP only, however, we do know from leaks that attempts to make Win32 modular component that can be added for support is in the works. If it is a success or not, we don't know. That said, Win32 has no support for what you saw what the deice can do. However UWP perfectly can. That is probably why MS is seeking developer support. So that devs/companies, port their software to UWP framework an uses the new APIs to do all the multi-screen smartness that you saw.

Right, I knew there's more to it though, just wondered that for certain simple functions seemed odd to somewhat fragment OS in a way I guess. I know certain things won't be needed, but then again wasn't the idea to make one adaptable OS for all and just disable what's not needed for X device. Also what I find interesting is no Win32 support, but UWP only, yet on like desktop UWP kinda tool a backseat per say no, but the said leak about attempt to make Win32 modular is in the works so that will be quite fun to see. It seems on desktop Win32 is like the go-to but for this device it's UWP only. So this mish-mash between those two looks quite an issue, making like separate platforms. 

 

[Tolrag]

In France, the cheapest Surface Laptop 3 13.5" is at 1149 euros, which is 1262 dollars (normally 999), and the 15" is at 1349 euros, which is 1482 dollars (normally 1199).

 

Is France getting ripped off or is it something related to taxes? V.A.T is always included in French taxes. If you are an american, is 999 dollars the price without taxes?

[jincio]

15 minutes ago, Tolrag said:

Is France getting ripped off or is it something related to taxes? V.A.T is always included in French taxes. If you are an american, is 999 dollars the price without taxes?

As far as I know the 999$ is without taxes. But I might be wrong

[GoodBytes]

21 minutes ago, Tolrag said:

In France, the cheapest Surface Laptop 3 13.5" is at 1149 euros, which is 1262 dollars (normally 999), and the 15" is at 1349 euros, which is 1482 dollars (normally 1199).

 

Is France getting ripped off or is it something related to taxes? V.A.T is always included in French taxes. If you are an american, is 999 dollars the price without taxes?

Because taxes varies based on where you are (even the city you are in, in some (albeit, rare) cases), in both Canada and US, taxes are not included on the price being displayed. You have to do the calculation yourself or get the surprise when it comes to actually pay.

 

[Tolrag]

Thank you. Then, it means that the French price is the "average" basic price + taxes from the US, with a scammy 1-to-1 conversion. Well, when you add it all up, it completely changes the price category of the device. They've just lost a sale.

[GoodBytes]

Just now, Tolrag said:

Thank you. Then, it means that the French price is the "average" basic price + taxes from the US, with a scammy 1-to-1 conversion. Well, when you add it all up, it completely changes the price category of the device. They've just lost a sale.

I don't know how it works exactly in France. But you have to keep in mind that you may have import fees, shipping fees, and additional certifications to do (cost more money to do), and possibly other red tape to jump/pay that adds to the cost, which is simply past down to the consumer, and that price, as always, is rounded to a nice number (usually up) and sold at that price. Currency conversion also plays apart in the price of a product.

[Commodus]

2 hours ago, captain_to_fire said:

I think Microsoft knew that no one would buy their Surface Neo today in a market full of Samsung and iPhones, that's probably the reason they didn't put it in pre-order today.

Microsoft's not making it available for pre-order because it's dependent on a processor and OS that won't be available until 2020.  Also, the Neo would be more of a competitor to pro tablets and ultraportable laptops than phones.

[GoodBytes]

Just now, Commodus said:

Microsoft's not making it available for pre-order because it's dependent on a processor and OS that won't be available until 2020.  Also, the Neo would be more of a competitor to pro tablets and ultraportable laptops than phones

I agree. The device is too large for most people. It targets niche market. At least this version 1. If you recall Surface Pro really took after after they were able to perfect the design and form factor of the device, and general polish with Pro 3. I expect something similar with the Neo and I would say the Duo as well.

[Blademaster91]

14 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

you know a product is actually really quite good when the only issue people can find is a  niche end use that likely has other way better options than buying a surface or anything even remotely in the same product category.

 

 

 

 

If someone wants a gaming laptop i'd recommend a gaming laptop not a surface device. Thunderbolt is probably a niche use for most people, USB3 storage drives are fast and there are plenty of adapters or accessories for type C.

[Commodus]

25 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

I agree. The device is too large for most people. It targets niche market. At least this version 1. If you recall Surface Pro really took after after they were able to perfect the design and form factor of the device, and general polish with Pro 3. I expect something similar with the Neo and I would say the Duo as well.

I'm curious to see how well it works in practice.  It could be pretty sweet as a laptop replacement in some cases, but that depends on performance, battery life and of course price.  And yes, if you get the first-gen you're definitely an early adopter.