Far Cry New Dawn Benchmark shows performance on Linux within 2% to 3% of performance on Windows

[Kisai]

1 hour ago, Crowbar said:

Unless you are the CEO then you likely don’t have control over what operating system you are forced to use in a work environment anyway. You also didn’t specify that in your initial post so to me it looks like your now moving the goal posts in attempt to find any one off situation to justify what you said earlier.

 

 

There’s no reason why an individual can’t switch to Linux in 2019 though and if a company had started with Linux, it wouldn’t be difficult to have new recruits on it from day 1 with no more if not less issues then a windows machine.

The office I work at has every version of Autocad Civil3D going back to 2012 that they paid for, because their clients (like various municipalities who have no reason to run Autocad 2020 when their 2012 version is what they use.) You are not switching the engineers to Linux, Period. It will not happen, and the world will be held hostage by Autodesk and any price they demand for their products, because everyone in that industry is required to use it. Buildings and infrastructure, Autocad. 

 

Now the office staff? The ones doing accounting, and support for those contracts? Use MS Office or find another job. If you can't respond to a meeting via Outlook and/or MS Teams, then you're going to miss client meetings and lose the company the contract. In fact the one conflict at the office is over the use of Adobe Acrobat. Everyone has something on their PC that can read PDF's. How many have the full Acrobat? You have to justify it to the accountants. 

 

There are decisions that a multinational company's IT department may make that run head first into poor choices made by the accountants. This is why a government office "running Linux" for a few years ends up being an experiment, not a practical thing. The staff in Munich probably had to jump through a lot of hoops to open documents from the state or the European government. 

 

Government offices have to deal with everyone. The public, other government offices, foreign offices, and so forth. So what do the civil engineers use? AUTOCAD.

 

Now you can replace every time I mention "civil engineer" and "autocad" above with "film editor" and Adobe Premiere, or "sound engineer" with "Pro tools" , or whatever you want. The obstacle to the Linux Desktop is getting all the software you need to do work and deal with clients on it. Not a "free alternative". 

 

Personally I use Open Office, even when my clients use MS Office, and I could install MS Office on my desktop, because the only documents I send to them are PDF's. However when I'm at their site, I use MS Office, and I don't install Linux on their machines.

[Crowbar]

8 minutes ago, Rohith_Kumar_Sp said:

Let people use what the hell ever they want, it's basically which ever interface you are used to and there's nothings wrong with that, the entire half of the US who use mac grew with apple not knowing you can right click on things for contextual menus, did they not get the job done? ofcourse not, but it took them work arounds and frustrations to get it done,

so why even waste time debating who's interface is better and you shouldn't use the other? 

 

Because I never said no one should use windows. Read the thread if you are going to comment this late into the conversation with no idea of what's going on.

 

I'm correcting fairy tales people have convinced themselves of regarding Linux over a decade ago and trying to apply it to the modern state of the kernel today.

 

If you like windows then use windows but don't pretend that you know something about Linux and drop long dead narratives regarding it.

 

That's the problem I have here.

[Crowbar]

7 minutes ago, Kisai said:

The office I work at has every version of Autocad Civil3D going back to 2012 that they paid for, because their clients (like various municipalities who have no reason to run Autocad 2020 when their 2012 version is what they use.) You are not switching the engineers to Linux, Period. It will not happen, and the world will be held hostage by Autodesk and any price they demand for their products, because everyone in that industry is required to use it. Buildings and infrastructure, Autocad. 

 

Now the office staff? The ones doing accounting, and support for those contracts? Use MS Office or find another job. If you can't respond to a meeting via Outlook and/or MS Teams, then you're going to miss client meetings and lose the company the contract. In fact the one conflict at the office is over the use of Adobe Acrobat. Everyone has something on their PC that can read PDF's. How many have the full Acrobat? You have to justify it to the accountants. 

 

There are decisions that a multinational company's IT department may make that run head first into poor choices made by the accountants. This is why a government office "running Linux" for a few years ends up being an experiment, not a practical thing. The staff in Munich probably had to jump through a lot of hoops to open documents from the state or the European government. 

 

Government offices have to deal with everyone. The public, other government offices, foreign offices, and so forth. So what do the civil engineers use? AUTOCAD.

 

Now you can replace every time I mention "civil engineer" and "autocad" above with "film editor" and Adobe Premiere, or "sound engineer" with "Pro tools" , or whatever you want. The obstacle to the Linux Desktop is getting all the software you need to do work and deal with clients on it. Not a "free alternative". 

 

Personally I use Open Office, even when my clients use MS Office, and I could install MS Office on my desktop, because the only documents I send to them are PDF's. However when I'm at their site, I use MS Office, and I don't install Linux on their machines.

I don't know why your going through the effort to type all this when I've already stated that my reply is primarily aimed at individuals citing problems like game compatibility which you aren't doing on a corporate work machine. I really don't care how whatever company you work for or do business with runs their systems.

 

However that doesn't change that had microshaft not created backdoor deals with literally every OEM from day one to make windows the default install before even shipping to the customer that this monopoly mess that's now present wouldn't have occured in the first place.

[mr moose]

12 minutes ago, Crowbar said:

- Again, refusal of change then blaming Linux for it. Sorry but microshaft isn't the gold standard and the industry doesn't have to support what they say it does.

 

 

I am afraid that whether you like it or not MS is the standard, that is why they are considered to have a monopoly  with windows by many legal systems.  Like it or not Office and exfat are the standard.

 

12 minutes ago, Crowbar said:

 

- Fuck around? How is formatting a card that's 32 GB in size or smaller difficult? Also, most photographers are shooting in 4K+ these days so a card of that size isn't very practical. "This tells us more about your intentions than you would like it to."

 

We are not talking about how easy it is, we are talking about how convent it is.  People don't want to learn how to format, no one formats there sd cards, they put it in their camera and take photos then they put it in their computer and share on face book.  Majority of user don't even know what the format function is.  WHy do you exp[ect people to learn about it when they don't have to?

 

12 minutes ago, Crowbar said:

 

- I never inherently stated that "Linux is better". Now you are putting words in my mouth. I did however call out all the outdated fallacies used as excuses not to switch. Learn the difference.

 

 

 

No, you just keep saying windows is worse and that there isn't any reason not to use Linux because it is better.  but your not saying that of course your just saying Linux is better. 

10 minutes ago, Crowbar said:

Probably the same ones as you do on forums of people complianing about the same issues on windows all the time.

And they are?  citation please, if you or anyone is going to claim many people have issue then tell me how many.  How do you know it is a widespread problem mif you don;t know how many users are effected?

10 minutes ago, Crowbar said:

Do you think you are cool repeating the same nonsense as other users over and over again? It has been explained to you that these either aren't problems or there's a work around.

If everyone is telling you the same thing then maybe what you believe is nonsense. 

 

No one wants a work around, they want it to work out of the box.  Would you say it was an acceptable response to claim windows update issues are not a problem because there is a work around?  Of course you wouldn't, so stop claiming that the use of a work around for linux issues means it isn't an issue.  Everybody uses their PC's differently and majority of users are not technically minded. 

[Crowbar]

26 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

I am afraid that whether you like it or not MS is the standard, that is why they are considered to have a monopoly  with windows by many legal systems.  Like it or not Office and exfat are the standard.

 

We are not talking about how easy it is, we are talking about how convent it is.  People don't want to learn how to format, no one formats there sd cards, they put it in their camera and take photos then they put it in their computer and share on face book.  Majority of user don't even know what the format function is.  WHy do you exp[ect people to learn about it when they don't have to?

 

No, you just keep saying windows is worse and that there isn't any reason not to use Linux because it is better.  but your not saying that of course your just saying Linux is better. 

And they are?  citation please, if you or anyone is going to claim many people have issue then tell me how many.  How do you know it is a widespread problem mif you don;t know how many users are effected?

If everyone is telling you the same thing then maybe what you believe is nonsense. 

 

No one wants a work around, they want it to work out of the box.  Would you say it was an acceptable response to claim windows update issues are not a problem because there is a work around?  Of course you wouldn't, so stop claiming that the use of a work around for linux issues means it isn't an issue.  Everybody uses their PC's differently and majority of users are not technically minded. 

- It's only the standard because it's chosen to be utilized by those that either don't know any better or are incompetent.

 

- Formatting an SD Card when it's new should be mandatory practice for everyone due to security alone. Regardless, if we are talking about the average user, most that I've run into don't even know what an SD Card is and store everything on their phones internal storage which renders your entire point useless. What small fraction of users are you referring to exactly? I'd think that most that are transferring files from an SD Card can also press a mouse button a couple times to format it as well.

 

I never once said windows is worse. This entire time all I've done is correct nonsense about Linux. Why should I have to tell you how many users exactly when there's no definitive answer and you fail to provide said numbers yourself instead referencing "many users on forums" from your personal experience? How can you expect more then you are willing to provide yourself? Hypocrisy is definitely one of your strong traits...

 

An ignorant selection of windows users that have never even used a Linux machine in the past but read about some problems a friend of a friend's uncle twice removed had when using one back in 2001 doesn’t mean anything and quite frankly an uneducated majority doesn't either. That's why I've been correcting false statements in this thread. I can't for the life of me figure out why you have such a hard time understanding that but keep putting words in my mouth. If you like windows then use windows but don't pretend that you know something about Linux and drop long dead narratives regarding it.

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, Crowbar said:

It's also perfectly reasonable to expect you to find an alternative that serves the same purpose if you are so inclined on reaping the benefits of another OS.

Does not exist for me yet.

 

1 hour ago, Crowbar said:

Let's say that I paid for photoshop 20 years ago and it's no longer supported. Should I be screaming at microshaft that the software I paid for isn't working and making a fuss about it?

There's something called expected service life. If you get more than 20 years use out of software great, just as great as getting 20 years use out of a washing machine but should I complain if it has a 10 year warranty and has been End of Sale for 15 years and End of Life for 10 years?

 

Software does have a maintenance cost, but you can choose to go unsupported at your choice.

[Rohith_Kumar_Sp]

1 hour ago, Crowbar said:

If you like windows then use windows but don't pretend that you know something about Linux and drop long dead narratives regarding it.

that's the point, people really don't care, yes Linux and it's 100 distros i can't count have been updated and things are much better compare to what they've had 5 years ago, but still, what's done is done, people are used to windows and those who switch to Linux are the ones who are tech savy. for the rest of the people even if they don't know something about linux and basing their opinions on old information, it's still understandable but you can only educate them on the subject but that's about it, they still wouldn't care.

 

53 minutes ago, mr moose said:

No one wants a work around, they want it to work out of the box

but when they have to, they rather learn to search google for which software can they install to have that work around than learning C programing to add command lines in linux that's so niche, i mean i know sometimes you gotta do the same on windows but compared to the offerings on linux, but the help is far more accicable on windows. coming from a person who hates command line alterations. 

[Crowbar]

30 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Does not exist for me yet.

 

There's something called expected service life. If you get more than 20 years use out of software great, just as great as getting 20 years use out of a washing machine but should I complain if it has a 10 year warranty and has been End of Sale for 15 years and End of Life for 10 years?

 

Software does have a maintenance cost, but you can choose to go unsupported at your choice.

And there's something called compatibility. If a program is inherently written for a different operating system, expecting it to work stock out of the box on another is lunacy. The fact that as many games work as they do through various compatibility layers (and growing) on Linux already is outstanding and until Linux grows further adoption a lot of devs have no financial incentive to put out a native version. That will also never change as long as windows users keep convincing themselves that it's "too difficult" or aren’t able to accomplish the same tasks and then pretentiously spread this bullshit to others.

[Crowbar]

29 minutes ago, Rohith_Kumar_Sp said:

that's the point, people really don't care, yes Linux and it's 100 distros i can't count have been updated and things are much better compare to what they've had 5 years ago, but still, what's done is done, people are used to windows and those who switch to Linux are the ones who are tech savy. for the rest of the people even if they don't know something about linux and basing their opinions on old information, it's still understandable but you can only educate them on the subject but that's about it, they still wouldn't care.

 

but when they have to, they rather learn to search google for which software can they install to have that work around than learning C programing to add command lines in linux that's so niche, i mean i know sometimes you gotta do the same on windows but compared to the offerings on linux, but the help is far more accicable on windows. coming from a person who hates command line alterations. 

- If you don't care then what the hell are you doing reading/commenting/participating in a Linux thread? You clearly have nothing of value to add, so what's your purpose here?

 

- Not sure what any of this is supposed to mean. Are you saying users should just learn to program and fix the problems themselves? That's already being done in the Linux community and some of the issues (the ones that actually exist) can't be because it's proprietary to another company which would result in a lawsuit.

[leadeater]

6 minutes ago, Crowbar said:

a lot of devs have no financial incentive to put out a native version

That isn't my problem now is it? I'm not going to willingly lessen my user experience just for a philosophical win, which I rate very low anyway but I legit don't give a damn about Linux or any OS in general. Linux won't hug me back.

[Orcblood]

17 hours ago, nyraty said:

Sweet, now if everyone would just drop EAC....

 

WTF Did you do to my quote. 

 

I said "I just installed Manjaro last night and it most definitely is not."

 

Not what you just quoted which is "I just installed Manjaro last  Tutuapp 9Apps ShowBox  night and it most definitely is not. "

Like what wtf is all that crap. You trying to link to malware? 

[JoostinOnline]

10 hours ago, Crowbar said:

Still looking for specific examples rather then a generic rehash of what mr moose said just a few posts from yours...

I just gave you two specific examples unrelated to what he said.  But this whole thread derailing is pointless. It has nothing to with the original topic.

 

The sad thing is, you really remind me of myself when I was a teenager. I was so unable to see beyond my own experience and skillset that I obnoxiously looked down on anyone who paid more money for what the was a more pleasant experience. I was just as naive as you.

[Derangel]

9 hours ago, Crowbar said:

- It's only the standard because it's chosen to be utilized by those that either don't know any better or are incompetent.

 

 

 

- Formatting an SD Card when it's new should be mandatory practice for everyone due to security alone. Regardless, if we are talking about the average user, most that I've run into don't even know what an SD Card is and store everything on their phones internal storage which renders your entire point useless. What small fraction of users are you referring to exactly? I'd think that most that are transferring files from an SD Card can also press a mouse button a couple times to format it as well.

 

 

 

I never once said windows is worse. This entire time all I've done is correct nonsense about Linux. Why should I have to tell you how many users exactly when there's no definitive answer and you fail to provide said numbers yourself instead referencing "many users on forums" from your personal experience? How can you expect more then you are willing to provide yourself? Hypocrisy is definitely one of your strong traits...

 

 

 

An ignorant selection of windows users that have never even used a Linux machine in the past but read about some problems a friend of a friend's uncle twice removed had when using one back in 2001 doesn’t mean anything and quite frankly an uneducated majority doesn't either. That's why I've been correcting false statements in this thread. I can't for the life of me figure out why you have such a hard time understanding that but keep putting words in my mouth. If you like windows then use windows but don't pretend that you know something about Linux and drop long dead narratives regarding it.

 

It doesn't matter why Microsoft's stuff is the standard. What matters is that they are and using anything else requires people to go out of their way to do so and experience issues (solvable issues, but still issues) because of it. It has nothing to do with incompetence or anything like that. Most people have better things to do with their time then fuck around with an OS and research new programs. They want to use a computer with as little fuss as possible. They're not going to want to intentionally inconvenience themselves when there is no real benefit to doing so. And before you throw around some bullshit about how not using Windows or whatever is a benefit, stop. It isn't and you will NEVER convince people that it is. It is a benefit for you and that's great, you do you. The vast majority of people don't care and will never care because they only view computers as a tool to do what they need and nothing else. They're not ignorant or incompetent, they just don't care. There's nothing wrong with not caring either, it simply means they have other things they deem more important than learning all of this stuff.

[mr moose]

10 hours ago, Crowbar said:

- It's only the standard because it's chosen to be utilized by those that either don't know any better or are incompetent.

Still a standard, you can't ignore reality just because you don't like it.

 

10 hours ago, Crowbar said:

 

 

- Formatting an SD Card when it's new should be mandatory practice for everyone due to security alone. Regardless, if we are talking about the average user, most that I've run into don't even know what an SD Card is and store everything on their phones internal storage which renders your entire point useless. What small fraction of users are you referring to exactly? I'd think that most that are transferring files from an SD Card can also press a mouse button a couple times to format it as well.

 

People don't.  You really need to get out of your bubble and have a look at he real world.    Majority of users do not format sd cards, they buy them and put then straight into their phone/camera.   that's just life for the average person.    Again, why do you expect people to do more and learn to do more just to use Linux when they don't have to?

 

10 hours ago, Crowbar said:

 

I never once said windows is worse. This entire time all I've done is correct nonsense about Linux. Why should I have to tell you how many users exactly when there's no definitive answer and you fail to provide said numbers yourself instead referencing "many users on forums" from your personal experience? How can you expect more then you are willing to provide yourself? Hypocrisy is definitely one of your strong traits...

BS, second page 3rd post, you clearly saying windows is worse, stop lying:

 

Quote

Not having to deal with malware, antivirus slowdowns, fragmentation slowdowns, privacy issues, forced updates, system breaking updates, etcetera makes it more than an alternative to me. It is simply better in many ways. It’s support for various games is the main area where it is behind, but it is catching up. I originally gave up Windows games because of all of the other advantages. Now many Windows games are an option on Linux and it is great.

 

 

 

10 hours ago, Crowbar said:

 

 

An ignorant selection of windows users that have never even used a Linux machine in the past but read about some problems a friend of a friend's uncle twice removed had when using one back in 2001 doesn’t mean anything and quite frankly an uneducated majority doesn't either. That's why I've been correcting false statements in this thread. I can't for the life of me figure out why you have such a hard time understanding that but keep putting words in my mouth. If you like windows then use windows but don't pretend that you know something about Linux and drop long dead narratives regarding it.

 

You are still ignoring what people are saying,  what you just said here is an incoherent mess which does not address the chief problem people have been telling you.

 

Look here:

 

56 minutes ago, Derangel said:

It doesn't matter why Microsoft's stuff is the standard. What matters is that they are and using anything else requires people to go out of their way to do so and experience issues (solvable issues, but still issues) because of it. It has nothing to do with incompetence or anything like that. Most people have better things to do with their time then fuck around with an OS and research new programs. They want to use a computer with as little fuss as possible. They're not going to want to intentionally inconvenience themselves when there is no real benefit to doing so. And before you throw around some bullshit about how not using Windows or whatever is a benefit, stop. It isn't and you will NEVER convince people that it is. It is a benefit for you and that's great, you do you. The vast majority of people don't care and will never care because they only view computers as a tool to do what they need and nothing else. They're not ignorant or incompetent, they just don't care. There's nothing wrong with not caring either, it simply means they have other things they deem more important than learning all of this stuff.

 

This is exactly what everyone including myself are saying,   It seems though you are getting hung up on the examples and would rather accuse everyone of being ignorant than accepting what is logical, straightforward and first hand experience for everyone here telling you this.  

 

[TechyBen]

2 hours ago, JoostinOnline said:

I just gave you two specific examples unrelated to what he said.  But this whole thread derailing is pointless. It has nothing to with the original topic.

 

The sad thing is, you really remind me of myself when I was a teenager. I was so unable to see beyond my own experience and skillset that I obnoxiously looked down on anyone who paid more money for what the was a more pleasant experience. I was just as naive as you.

It can be worse. Some people pay for worse experiences... but I blame bloat and bugs and carrying a brand over actually making nice code/software (though thankfully few programs do this).

 

[Kisai]

19 hours ago, Crowbar said:

I don't know why your going through the effort to type all this when I've already stated that my reply is primarily aimed at individuals citing problems like game compatibility which you aren't doing on a corporate work machine. I really don't care how whatever company you work for or do business with runs their systems.

 

However that doesn't change that had microshaft not created backdoor deals with literally every OEM from day one to make windows the default install before even shipping to the customer that this monopoly mess that's now present wouldn't have occured in the first place.

 

Occam's razor. No more assumptions should be made than necessary.

 

The reason people do not use Linux on the Desktop, is because they can not run MS Office, Photoshop, or Autocad, which are all corner-stone software, and is important for 100% of business that you can't just drop in an unsupported tool and expect everyone to adhere to your philosophy on why it's better, you'll just lose clients or jobs.

 

If you are a self-employed person, trying to pinch every penny, by all means try to convince people that you will only send them TIFF files without layers, or TXT files, because that's the only thing every word processor is guaranteed to read. I went through a point in my life where I tried to send people things like TXT and RTF files that OpenOffice generated, and the result was just "just send me a word doc please", I have to wonder how many job opportunities were passed up because I ignored a simple request to send them a document in the format they expected, not just one that it can open.

 

If you want to run Linux on your personal desktop and do all the silly crap needed to make a game work, far be it for me to tell you what you want to waste time on, but time is a valuable resource, and that amount of time you spend configuring things could be better spent not doing so.

[mr moose]

2 hours ago, Kisai said:

If you want to run Linux on your personal desktop and do all the silly crap needed to make a game work, far be it for me to tell you what you want to waste time on, but time is a valuable resource, and that amount of time you spend configuring things could be better spent not doing so.

This, this is all that needs to be said.   Linux has it's place and it's great for many things,  But to try and argue it's for everyone against the onslaught of windows and its entrenched market dominance is basically to ignore the elephant in the living room.    

[jagdtigger]

2 hours ago, Kisai said:

and that amount of time you spend configuring things could be better spent not doing so

Same can be said to windows. To top it off you have to do it twice a year, where as  on linux just once every 4 year.... (If the upgrade to the next LTS fails..)

[Rohith_Kumar_Sp]

9 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Same can be said to windows.

not really, no. stop exaggerating. configuring something you understand basic english to typing command lines in linux is a night and day comparison. 

[mr moose]

5 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Same can be said to windows. To top it off you have to do it twice a year, where as  on linux just once every 4 year.... (If the upgrade to the next LTS fails..)

No it can't,  what people are referring to is having ti search for and download 3rd party software and packets to enable basic features and compatibility that comes already working in windows.   At the worst the most the average user does is the initial setup when they buy a new laptop, after that they never have to again.

[jagdtigger]

37 minutes ago, Rohith_Kumar_Sp said:

no. stop

Say that to yourself as it was mentioned several times you do not need the terminal anymore. Stop spreading outdated information.

 

37 minutes ago, mr moose said:

No it can't

Yes it can, guess how many times i was called by ppl who's pc/laptop is maintained by me that their machines updated and now all of the junk is back that got removed(plus most of my registry tweaks) and some of their programs disappeared? Good luck with that because even i cant keep count of it.

 

42 minutes ago, mr moose said:

download 3rd party software and packets to enable basic features

Same can be said about win10 and the watered  down preinstalled mobile app crap.... Not to mention that you need to use 3rd party apps to make the OS somewhat usable unless you want to crawl through the registry and powershell yourself....

 

 

If are a masochist and want to put up with every bullcrap ms spouts out fine by me.  But dont try to justify it with outdated information about other options.

[mr moose]

Just now, jagdtigger said:

Say that to yourself as it was mentioned several times you do not need the terminal anymore. Stop spreading outdated information.

 

Yes it can, guess how many times i was called by ppl who's pc/laptop is maintained by me that their machines updated and now all of the junk is back that got removed(plus most of my registry tweaks) and some of their programs disappeared? Good luck with that because even i cant keep count of it.

 

Same can be said about win10 and the watered  down preinstalled mobile app crap.... Not to mention that you need to use 3rd party apps to make the OS somewhat usable unless you want to crawl through the registry and powershell yourself....

 

 

If are a masochist and want to put up with every bullcrap ms spouts out fine by me.  But dont try to justify it with outdated information about other options.

 

I love how you are just so dishonest with all of this.  you know damned well that majority of windows users don't have to do jack shit to use their PC.   They buy it, run through the setup and spend the next 5 years on facebook, emailing and word then they trash it and buy another.

[TechyBen]

1 hour ago, jagdtigger said:

Same can be said to windows. To top it off you have to do it twice a year, where as  on linux just once every 4 year.... (If the upgrade to the next LTS fails..)

Nope. Win 7 is still going strong. I think I've run out of fingers to count how long it's been going for.

PS, I have Mint on the Laptop, and it could go for as long. But as said, I've found versions of mint don't play well with versions of software, and have to be made for that version of mint/supported on it (some driver/audio/render changes IIRC... Windows 10/8/7/Vista/XP did similar with drivers, but often had compatibility mode for software solutions).

[jagdtigger]

1 minute ago, mr moose said:

I love how you are just so dishonest with all of this.

Ppl are just tired of all of the crapware manufacturers put on their laptop, for them the built in apps of win10 falls into that category. At least thats my experience. And usually i am the "victim" who has to do the cleanup for them. The get firefox with adblock and a few more minor addons, VLC, LO(some of them wanted MSO but they werent able to show me the key) and thats about it.  Except my niece, she installs all kind of crap....   (If i could switch her over to linux that would be a whole lot less headache.)

[jagdtigger]

1 minute ago, TechyBen said:

Nope. Win 7 is still going strong. I think I've run out of fingers to count how long it's been going for.

When saying windows i mean win10, as 7 sadly is on its way out...