Far Cry New Dawn Benchmark shows performance on Linux within 2% to 3% of performance on Windows

[leadeater]

3 minutes ago, Crowbar said:

There’s no reason why an individual can’t switch to Linux in 2019 though

I play way too many games for that to work out well enough for me. I wouldn't mind the better disk subsystem options though, I handle that off system currently on my server and 20Gb connection.

[mr moose]

4 hours ago, Crowbar said:

This is not a Linux problem.

 

Whether you like it or not this is a Linux problem.  If you can't easily use something as common as an SD card then it is not going to be a very popular OS.   There are issues that prevent people from switching and how they came to be does not change the fact they are still issues.

 

 

4 hours ago, Crowbar said:

Exfat is a microshaft proprietary file system and therefore is not part of the Linux kernal by default since it's a violation of one of the 4 freedoms guidelines to free software.

 

No shit, tell me something I don't know.

 

4 hours ago, Crowbar said:

You can still use SD Cards perfectly with most stock distributions as long as you format the card with a modern open source file system first but instead you'd rather do it the windows way which will require more work.

So long as you use a format that most cameras can't read or write? 

 

55 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

FIFY. All this outdated information is getting boring....

 

What's getting boring around here is the perpetual and undying ignorance of people who think because they enjoy something or think it's easy that the rest of the world will do so too.  News flash for you,  there are many threads asking how to get sd cards working with Ubuntu because it is not simple for the average user nor is it an outdated issue.

[JoostinOnline]

27 minutes ago, Crowbar said:

- Unless you provide examples relevant to what you actually do with them, this statement is meaningless

 

The simplest one is file format compatibility. And it doesn't matter who's to blame for it, that doesn't change the fact that it exists. But widespread adoption in businesses and educational programs makes the paid versions easier to learn and more practical.

 

In the end it doesn't matter what you think is best.

27 minutes ago, Crowbar said:

- This is not specific to Linux though and you even provided an example to prove it. Refusal to adapt or just being plain technologically challanged isn't a Linux problem.

I never said it was specific to Linux. That's why I provided the damn example. People will pay money for the route with the least amount of change. Switching from Office 2003 to 2007 was hard enough, but switching from Microsoft Office to Libre Office is something that no business will ever do unless they're forced to.

[jagdtigger]

6 minutes ago, mr moose said:

people who think because they enjoy something or think it's easy

Do you know what all the r=1 users say when i show them Linux Mint(which is very similar to XP in terms of GUI)? "Oh it looks different!" and wont even try to use it........  This isnt a problem about usability anymore in most cases but an unhealthy level of laziness.....

 

/EDIT

Oh and almost forgot. Guess what is installed on their computers? A browser and usually some form of media player. Which is installed by default with linux.

[Crowbar]

45 minutes ago, leadeater said:

I play way too many games for that to work out well enough for me. I wouldn't mind the better disk subsystem options though, I handle that off system currently on my server and 20Gb connection.

Another outdated narrative...

 

There are multiple options to play games on Linux now including through steam directly with minimal fuss. There are compatibility lists available to check as well. The only modern titles that have major issues are due to DRM and the developer classifying Linux as a "cheat client" or whatever other nonsense they come up with, refusing to support or even allow any connections through it to online servers. There is of course a way around this but it's not simple even for experienced users but again I wouldn't call a proprietary piece of software not working a Linux problem.

 

Older games also still run on Linux where as a lot of them pre x64 no longer natively function on windows.

 

[leadeater]

4 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

educational programs makes the paid versions easier to learn and more practical

 

5 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

People will pay money for the route with the least amount of change

And all the big software vendors provide education licenses for free and extremely cheap licenses to educational institutions. When most of the professional learning material that exists is for SolidWorks it helps to actually use SolidWorks, once you've learnt how to use SolidWorks and will use it in industry there is little point in moving over to a different product.

 

That's not to say there aren't engineering firms that do not use SolidWorks or AutoDesk because many do not, they are fairly expensive. You'll still have your free student copy you got though and if you have to learn a different one it'll be on work time and it'll be what ever tool that is and it's unlikely to be one that has a Linux version.

[mr moose]

11 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Do you know what all the r=1 users say when i show them Linux Mint(which is very similar to XP in terms of GUI)? "Oh it looks different!" and wont even try to use it........  This isnt a problem about usability anymore in most cases but an unhealthy level of laziness.....

 

/EDIT

Oh and almost forgot. Guess what is installed on their computers? A browser and usually some form of media player. Which is installed by default with linux.

I already said that right back at the start:

 

 

On 9/16/2019 at 7:17 AM, mr moose said:

 

I don't know what the general industry thinks of linux and the idea of consumers moving to it.  As far as i am concerned like any product market,  until there is a need I just can't see it happening in a hurry.   No one likes change for the sake of change, in fact people are more likely to resist change.  The alternative has to provide people with something very desirable before it will be considered.  which means the it won't gain popular traction until well after that.

 

And that is before they work out how to make it as hardware generic as windows is without all the issues windows has.  Something I also can't see happening for a long time.

 

 

 

The fact of the matter is people don't like change by nature, sometimes it's just because they are lazy and sometimes it's because they would prefer invest their resources into other things rather than learning a new OS for very little gain (and in some cases for less software/hardware options).  EDIT: many people have no interest in Linux so why would they even care to think about learning it?

 

That's just the nature of the beast.

[Rohith_Kumar_Sp]

6 hours ago, mr moose said:

What happens if you install Ubuntu and try to plug your SD card in to copy over your photo's?   Nothing happens, you have to use the command line to install the appropriate exfat readers because they are proprietary and do not come included.    

 

Fortunately I know what I am doing and can use command line, but many average users do not, can not or will not learn it making Linux not an option for those who want to use it with SD cards.  

This is exact reason i'll never use Linux or ubantu, just can't be bothered. 

 

5 hours ago, Crowbar said:

This is not a Linux problem.

i don't care, i'm not spending my time on finding out how to use it on linux when there's so much options on the window side. 

[leadeater]

10 minutes ago, Crowbar said:

Another outdated narrative...

 

There are multiple options to play games on Linux now including through steam directly with minimal fuss.

No there are multiple options to try to do so with varying levels of success, I go home and play games to... play games not try to get them working or sort through them to get a compatibility breakdown for what I own.

 

If you have the desire to deal with that then do so, once anything I have will work it'll become an option otherwise nah that isn't an incentive to switch.

 

And I'm not going to dual boot or run a VM either, I can do what I want with a single OS right now.

 

I've been down the Linux gaming route, years ago though, and while it has improved it is not equivalent, not even close. Back when I did give it a good go I paid for that gaming fork of WineHQ as well as using Wine, novelty quickly wears off though.

[Crowbar]

33 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

Whether you like it or not this is a Linux problem.  If you can't easily use something as common as an SD card then it is not going to be a very popular OS.   There are issues that prevent people from switching and how they came to be does not change the fact they are still issues.

 

 

 

No shit, tell me something I don't know.

 

So long as you use a format that most cameras can't read or write? 

 

 

What's getting boring around here is the perpetual and undying ignorance of people who think because they enjoy something or think it's easy that the rest of the world will do so too.  News flash for you,  there are many threads asking how to get sd cards working with Ubuntu because it is not simple for the average user nor is it an outdated issue.

- This is a flat out dumb perspective. Linux has no control over what standard microshaft has forced to the industry and is under no obligation nor in many cases has the resources available to license them from competing corporations. Exfat was standardized in 2005. Time to move on to something that isn't so antiquated and can support more then 32 GB. Or do you live the rest of your life 15 years behind the curve as well?

 

- Have you tried it? Most modern cameras support more then just exfat.

 

- What's getting boring is perpetual ignorance of people stating problems that either aren't specfic/relevant to Linux or were actual problems 10+ years ago but have since been resolved, streamlined and made user friendly since that time.

 

All the “reasons” in this thread thus far outside of a corporate scenario if already on windows:

[leadeater]

13 minutes ago, Crowbar said:

Older games also still run on Linux where as a lot of them pre x64 no longer natively function on windows.

Well that's not true, I have many games from the 90's that work fine, not the GoG versions either but actual CD copies of them.

[Crowbar]

23 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

The simplest one is file format compatibility. And it doesn't matter who's to blame for it, that doesn't change the fact that it exists. But widespread adoption in businesses and educational programs makes the paid versions easier to learn and more practical.

 

In the end it doesn't matter what you think is best.

I never said it was specific to Linux. That's why I provided the damn example. People will pay money for the route with the least amount of change.

Still looking for specific examples rather then a generic rehash of what mr moose said just a few posts from yours...

[jagdtigger]

11 minutes ago, mr moose said:

because they would prefer invest their resources into other things rather than learning a new OS for very little gain

In stead they stick with an unreliable OS which is constantly annoying them. Definitely no merits to one that doesnt do that...... /s

[Crowbar]

11 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I already said that right back at the start:

 

 

 

The fact of the matter is people don't like change by nature, sometimes it's just because they are lazy and sometimes it's because they would prefer invest their resources into other things rather than learning a new OS for very little gain (and in some cases for less software/hardware options).  EDIT: many people have no interest in Linux so why would they even care to think about learning it?

 

That's just the nature of the beast.

Very little gain? How is not being exploited by microshaft not in itself a major one?

[Crowbar]

4 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Well that's not true, I have many games from the 90's that work fine, not the GoG versions either but actual CD copies of them.

I said a lot. Not all.

 

I have many games on discs as well that will simply refuse to install on an x64 based windows system unless you literally copy the files and use a third party source port or alternate engine.

[Crowbar]

10 minutes ago, leadeater said:

No there are multiple options to try to do so with varying levels of success, I go home and play games to... play games not try to get them working or sort through them to get a compatibility breakdown for what I own.

 

If you have the desire to deal with that then do so, once anything I have will work it'll become an option otherwise nah that isn't an incentive to switch.

 

And I'm not going to dual boot or run a VM either, I can do what I want with a single OS right now.

 

I've been down the Linux gaming route, years ago though, and while it has improved it is not equivalent, not even close. Back when I did give it a good go I paid for that gaming fork of WineHQ as well as using Wine, novelty quickly wears off though.

I never said it was equivilent but it's far better then 5+ years ago and quickly improving. I don't see how you can ask for more when it's often the refusal of the dev to allow a game to run on Linux.

[leadeater]

1 minute ago, Crowbar said:

I never said it was equivilent but it's far better then 5+ years ago and quickly improving. I don't see how you can ask for more when it's often the refusal of the dev to allow a game to run on Linux.

I can ask for more because I am the paying customer of the software and I expect to be able to use it, I also expect to know I can use it before purchase.

[mr moose]

3 minutes ago, Crowbar said:

- This is a flat out dumb perspective. Linux has no control over what standard microshaft has forced to the industry and is under no obligation nor in many cases has the resources available to license them from competing corporations. Exfat was standardized in 2005. Time to move on to something that isn't so antiquated. Or do you live the rest of your life 15 years behind the curve as well?

Petulant responses don't warrant serious answers.  No I do not live 15 years behind anything.  DCF standard stipulates to guarantee interoperability files systems must be fat or exfat.  So that is what they are by default. 

 

3 minutes ago, Crowbar said:

- Have you tried it? Most modern cameras support more then just exfat.

The fact you think point and shoot owners are going to look for camera's that can support something else then fuck around trying to make it work just because you think s Linux is better is laughable.

 

3 minutes ago, Crowbar said:

- What's getting boring is perpetual ignorance of people stating problems that either aren't specfic/relevant to Linux or were actual problems 10+ years ago but have since been resolved, streamlined and made user friendly since that time.

They are though, and your unwillingness to accept that is flat out the issue.  No one cares which is better except you, people just have issues with lack of features or operability with linux so keep using windows instead.  This is not an insult although you seem to be taking it as one.

 

3 minutes ago, Crowbar said:

All the “reasons” in this thread thus far outside of a corporate scenario if already on windows:

And this is where you devolve into personal attacks again.  You are just incapable of sticking to the topic without personal insults.  I am afraid that this tells us more about your intentions than you would like it to.

[mr moose]

9 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

In stead they stick with an unreliable OS which is constantly annoying them. Definitely no merits to one that doesnt do that...... /s

only your opinion,  Have you got some numbers on that?

8 minutes ago, Crowbar said:

Very little gain? How is not being exploited by microshaft not in itself a major one?

Do you think you are cool calling them microshaft all the time?    It has been explained to you several times what some people will lose if they swap to linux.

[Crowbar]

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

I can ask for more because I am the paying customer of the software and I expect to be able to use it, I also expect to know I can use it before purchase.

This is like saying that I'm pissed off because I'm trying to pull a semi trailer with a pickup truck and blew my transmission. You can expect all you like but if it's not possible your expectations aren't reasonable.

 

If you took the truck back to the dealership demanding it be fixed under warranty, replaced or refunded they would laugh you out to the street.

[leadeater]

1 minute ago, Crowbar said:

This is like saying that I'm pissed off because I'm trying to pull a semi trailer with a pickup truck and blew my transmission. You can expect all you like but if it's not possible your expectations aren't reasonable.

 

If you took the truck back to the dealership demanding it be fixed under warranty, replaced or refunded they would laugh you out to the street.

It's perfectly reasonable to expect to use the software I purchased. It is not reasonable of you to suggest that I trade in my vehicle that is fit for my purpose for one that is not.

[Crowbar]

4 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Petulant responses don't warrant serious answers.  No I do not live 15 years behind anything.  DCF standard stipulates to guarantee interoperability files systems must be fat or exfat.  So that is what they are by default. 

 

The fact you think point and shoot owners are going to look for camera's that can support something else then fuck around trying to make it work just because you think s Linux is better is laughable.

 

They are though, and your unwillingness to accept that is flat out the issue.  No one cares which is better except you, people just have issues with lack of features or operability with linux so keep using windows instead.  This is not an insult although you seem to be taking it as one.

 

And this is where you devolve into personal attacks again.  You are just incapable of sticking to the topic without personal insults.  I am afraid that this tells us more about your intentions than you would like it to.

- Again, refusal of change then blaming Linux for it. Sorry but microshaft isn't the gold standard and the industry doesn't have to support what they say it does.

 

- Fuck around? How is formatting a card that's 32 GB in size or smaller difficult? Also, most photographers are shooting in 4K+ these days so a card of that size isn't very practical. "This tells us more about your intentions than you would like it to."

 

- I never inherently stated that "Linux is better". Now you are putting words in my mouth. I did however call out all the outdated fallacies used as excuses not to switch. Learn the difference.

 

 

[Crowbar]

12 minutes ago, mr moose said:

only your opinion,  Have you got some numbers on that?

Do you think you are cool calling them microshaft all the time?    It has been explained to you several times what some people will lose if they swap to linux.

Probably the same ones as you do on forums of people complianing about the same issues on windows all the time.

 

Do you think you are cool repeating the same nonsense as other users over and over again? It has been explained to you that these either aren't problems or there's a work around.

[Rohith_Kumar_Sp]

2 minutes ago, Crowbar said:

- I never inherently stated that "Linux is better". 

Let people use what the hell ever they want, it's basically which ever interface you are used to and there's nothings wrong with that, the entire half of the US who use mac grew with apple not knowing you can right click on things for contextual menus, did they not get the job done? ofcourse not, but it took them work arounds and frustrations to get it done,

so why even waste time debating who's interface is better and you shouldn't use the other? 

 

[Crowbar]

18 minutes ago, leadeater said:

It's perfectly reasonable to expect to use the software I purchased. It is not reasonable of you to suggest that I trade in my vehicle that is fit for my purpose for one that is not.

It's also perfectly reasonable to expect you to find an alternative that serves the same purpose if you are so inclined on reaping the benefits of another OS.

 

Let's say that I paid for photoshop 20 years ago and it's no longer supported. Should I be screaming at microshaft that the software I paid for isn't working and making a fuss about it?