The way forward (for the PSU Tier List)

[LienusLateTips]

The PSU Tier List has seen some internal squabbles lately. 

 

The list is going out of date and it's messy. 

 

The current squabbles are over the state of the PSU Tier List. Some of us want it to be more detailed and more complicated. Others want the status quo. Personally? I would like to simplify it or keep it at the status quo and clean it up.

 

However, I'd like the opinion of the community. Please, vote.

 

 

 

 

"Simplify" = Merge tiers, that don't have a difference between them to the end user

 

"Complicate" = More tiers, such as a Tier B+ and Tier C+. Clean up the whole list.

 

"Stay the same" = Clean the list up, keep the current tier structure. Definitions for the tiers may change.

[BigDamn]

My only suggestion would be to lay out reasoning behind each tier. What makes a Tier A+ an A+? What makes a Tier A? etc. The current format is fine with me. As long as the information is accurate I'm fine.

[LienusLateTips]

Just another note, this is for the main list. We might do a second list for the second most popular.

[LienusLateTips]

5 minutes ago, BigDamn said:

My only suggestion would be to lay out reasoning behind each tier. What makes a Tier A+ an A+? What makes a Tier A? etc. The current format is fine with me. As long as the information is accurate I'm fine.

That is planned, for whatever option we do.

[Fasauceome]

Clarification as to the criteria (or at least further clarification) would go a long way. I had proposed a labeling mechanism for the attributes of power supplies that were most noteworthy, I can DM you if you want, and what ultimately determined their rank, and you could also link the relevant topics. I myself have the Seasonic S12/M12II and Focus topics by @LukeSavenije in my sig, as well as the G3 topic, and we can hyperlink those in the tier list on those specific units. Simpler goes a long way for entry level users, and a same format list for better recommendation accuracy would be nice to have.

[LienusLateTips]

2 minutes ago, Fasauceome said:

Clarification as to the criteria (or at least further clarification) would go a long way. I had proposed a labeling mechanism for the attributes of power supplies that were most noteworthy, I can DM you if you want, and what ultimately determined their rank, and you could also link the relevant topics. I myself have the Seasonic S12/M12II and Focus topics by @LukeSavenije in my sig, as well as the G3 topic, and we can hyperlink those in the tier list on those specific units. Simpler goes a long way for entry level users, and a same format list for better recommendation accuracy would be nice to have.

My personal favourite would be a simple list and a complicated list as a pair, with the complicated list in a spoiler or something.

 

Please do DM me with the label system.

[191x7]

I'd like to see a few words on each PSU, like the pros and cons, nothing long just enough to know stuff like it has weak ocp or a noisy fan.

[LukeSavenije]

2 minutes ago, Genwyn said:

righteous movement to make sure everyone has a god tier power supply even if they will never need it.

well, I'll take a different unit here than you mentioned for ease here. seasonic s12ii costs around 40-60 bucks generally speaking, but uses group regulation, which means it doesn't meet c6/c7 haswell atx spec, and can't enter these sleepstates and the one kepler+ can go into. this is the case with most of these "group regulated" units because they offer a worse crossload

 

so i don't think anyone should get a godtier axi for their apu system, but it's a worthwhile investment to invest into a good dc-dc unit.

 

and believe me, this is just a small part, i haven't even started on otp, uvp, fan types, how high protections are set, ripple and so on

[Fasauceome]

35 minutes ago, Genwyn said:

telling someone to buy a CX 450m when a 20$ VS450 with a coupon would do the exact same thing for them is harmful practice. It continues to perpetuate the stereotype of a custom PC being expensive and the outright hostility these people get for wanting to buy lesser quality power supplies is ridiculous.

 

Bang for buck is a huge factor. At a basic level, the VS is gonna handle the low level hardware you refer to, but when OP wants to upgrade, what then? Point to the burgeoning PC builder that has literally no plans to upgrade, and no intention to reuse old parts. What about the people who are out there putting their brand new Vega 64 on their corsair VS550?

[LienusLateTips]

41 minutes ago, Genwyn said:

Differentiate between average hardware and enthusiast hardware.

The huge problem I'm seeing is people recommending very expensive, high tier power supplies for Joze Gonzales to put into is dual core Pentium machine to play TF2. 

Its understood that there are better power supplies, but a lot of the people who parrot the psu tier list do not seem to understand that regardless of its rank, as long as it's a name brand and has a warranty who cares about what's inside. We all ran toaster power supplies for a decade before recent years where quality ones have been made, telling someone to buy a CX 450m when a 20$ VS450 with a coupon would do the exact same thing for them is harmful practice. It continues to perpetuate the stereotype of a custom PC being expensive and the outright hostility these people get for wanting to buy lesser quality power supplies is ridiculous.

 

OP wants a thermaltake smart series. Tell them that the smart series is not recommended and give them an alternative, but don't go saying dumb sensationalist shit like how it's going to kill your pc, set your house on fire and rape your dog. And then telling them to buy a unit that costs twice as much because it reviews better.

It's a cheap 80+ white psu, it's not fancy and doesn't need to be.

 

Something like this needs to be in the psu tier list. The community who follows it like a bible has gotten hostile and elitist to others because of some self righteous movement to make sure everyone has a god tier power supply even if they will never need it.

there's a reason why i write UNITS ABOVE TIER B ARE FINE EVEN FOR GAMING SYSTEMS.

 

That opens up very affordable, $40 options for people. i wouldn't call that a god tier psu

[Evolution.]

Simple list or keep the current tbh. If its aimed toward the new system builder they dont want to read a novel and know every intricate detail and be an expert on power supplies by the end tbh. 

[LienusLateTips]

38 minutes ago, VenomZ_ said:

Simple list or keep the current tbh. If its aimed toward the new system builder they dont want to read a novel and know every intricate detail and be an expert on power supplies by the end tbh. 

That's what I've been thinking... maybe a more complicated list in a spoiler or something.

[Tristerin]

I voted "Simple" simply because Im simple and it would be easier for me to make an educated decision. 

 

But even then I just PM @LukeSavenije for advice anyways lol.

[LogicWeasel]

7 hours ago, Genwyn said:

telling someone to buy a CX 450m when a 20$ VS450 with a coupon would do the exact same thing for them is harmful practice. It continues to perpetuate the stereotype of a custom PC being expensive

Not sure what market you're in.  The US market does not have the CX450m as vastly more expensive than a VS450 (on PCPartPicker right now it's only $10 more on Amazon for the better PSU).  Your hyperbolic language somewhat betrays the actual difference in price between those two units so perhaps your example could have been more fitting your complaint.  I do not see anything harmful about telling someone to get a more quality PSU when the difference is $10-15 (and a VS450 is pretty barebones, not a bomb, but not great long-term), if that much money breaks the bank on a PC build than the build clearly doesn't have much upgrade room anyway.

[Tristerin]

7 minutes ago, LogicWeasel said:

Not sure what market you're in.  The US market does not have the CX450m as vastly more expensive than a VS450 (on PCPartPicker right now it's only $10 more on Amazon for the better PSU).  Your hyperbolic language somewhat betrays the actual difference in price between those two units so perhaps your example could have been more fitting your complaint.  I do not see anything harmful about telling someone to get a more quality PSU when the difference is $10-15 (and a VS450 is pretty barebones, not a bomb, but not great long-term), if that much money breaks the bank on a PC build than the build clearly doesn't have much upgrade room anyway.

Im always of the mind of - if $10 bucks makes or breaks the bank your priorities are not inline with reality.  So I suggest the extra $10 PSU because if you don't you will likely have a bad time, replace it sooner costing more in the long run - and again, if that $10 is going to change how you feed yourself or pay your bills - stop building a PC now (my 2 copper coins)

 

EDIT - I do buy cheap PSU's and have for cheap, for fun builds however - because I didn't care and the money didn't make/break or change reality

[TVwazhere]

Simplify it

 

I'd argue 95% of people shopping for a PSU dont care about Ripple, OPP/OTP, DC-DC, LLC, Japanese Capacitors, Fan Type, Single Rail or just about any of the other technical aspects of a PSU. They wanna know:

1. Will it power my system?
2. Will it be reliable?
3. Does it fit my budget?

That's it. Maybe people will ask for a quieter PSU, but even that's gonna be rare with many people using closed back headphones.

[Biggerboot]

I agree with @BigDamn about more explanations behind the tiers, maybe right on the original post itself. 

 

The number of tiers is ok.  But I would rename them to:

• "Bomb" tier (D)
• "Won't catch fire" tier (C)
• Single GPU tier (B)
• Dual GPU tier (A)
• Mining Tier (S)

I wouldn't weigh in value (since this is a regional thing).  Warranties from reputable brands do have some weight imo, but I know the list put emphasis on the unit itself.  If you did want to start weighing in noise I could see lambda ratings being added to the entries themselves, or mention that there's a zero fan mode.  But that may complicate it a tad, I'm definitely in favor of keeping it simple so people don't blow their system up. 

[hello_there_123]

Just now, Biggerboot said:

 

• "Bomb" tier (D)
• "Won't catch fire" tier (C)
• Single GPU tier (B)
• Dual GPU tier (A)
• Mining Tier (S)

Wattage thing. Not a Quality thing.

[Biggerboot]

4 minutes ago, hello_there_123 said:

Wattage thing. Not a Quality thing.

I get that there's not a direct correlation, but there does need to be different use cases separating the tiers.  I think the tier "pre-built replacement" use case was actually a pretty good description but it also seems to cause confusion.

 

So have a "gaming tier" if that's better.  Then "server" tier, because it needs to be more reliable.