Zen2 Voltages aren't exaggerated, Zen2 is a MESS

[MrMoonboots]

So I recently put together my first PC ever, and while I originally was putting it together as a 2700x build, I was quickly informed and repeatedly reminded by everyone I asked for help with the build to  "Forget the 2700x, wait for the 3700x. You'll be much happier"
 

So I did. Oops. Now I'm afraid to even use the thing and I'm quickly regretting buying it, plotting out how to return some of the older parts that may be past their return date, send AMD's parts back, and considering spending the extra money necessary to create an Intel build out of pure spite.
 

Before I continue, I wanted to go ahead and get this out of the way. I have read AMD Robert's post about their "Final word" on Zen2 voltages. I have followed his instructions down to the letter, I understand his explanation about the observer effect on the processor by some monitoring software, so I followed his instructions about using CPU-Z ONLY with nothing running in the background to check my voltages while following his steps and nothing has helped.

I have a Ryzen 7 3700X build. My idle voltages sit at 1.4V+ constantly no matter what I do, with the occasional drop to 0.9V. My core temps fluctuate massively, PBO is WAY too sensitive, and without having to look very hard I find that others are having this EXACT same issue.
 

Let me repeat for clarity: My voltages do not "occasionally" go to 1.4V+, they SIT there CONSTANTLY, at idle, when I'm doing absolutely nothing.
 

CPU temps fluctuate a massive 20 degrees between 30c to 50c nonstop at idle, but settle around 50-60 under load, with my highest observed peak at about 73 degrees.
So the temperatures I've observed seem to be in a safe range, while still being completely nervewracking to someone who isn't used to it
 

PBO is so sensitive simply moving the mouse will send my clocks to 4.2GHZ and my fans will spin up and not stop until I do, but once I do it doesn't matter much because the fans spin up every ten seconds because of the huge temperature fluctuation that happens minute-to-minute anyways.
 

These voltages and temp fluctuations stay the same under most any condition with the one exception I've found being putting the computer into the Windows Power Saver plan, which gives me a consistent 0.9 voltage, and keeps my temps stable. But then I'm not able to play the games I built the PC for and I didn't really spend $1800 on a PC to put it in power saver mode at any point anyways, you know? So forgive me for the occasional snarky comment, I'm justifiably a LITTLE frustrated.
 

To attempt to resolve this issue I've taken a number of steps, and tried multiple different configurations I'll list below, along with my build.

BUILD:
ASUS Rog Strix X470-F
Ryzen 7 3700X (Noctua DH15S cooler)
MSI GeForce 1660TI "Ventus"
Samsung 970 Evo Plus 1TB
32GB G.Skill Trident Z RGB 3200@14CAS*
*(Side note I have have not been able to get my ram speed to 3200@14CAS in mobo settings, does not post when I try)
 

To start I made sure I was on the latest Windows update, made sure I had the latest chipset driver (1.07.07) per Rob's instruction and made sure my BIOS settings were set to "AUTO" in line with the ones recommended by AMD robert. The one exception to this rule was setting my CPU Voltage from "Auto" to "Normal" in my BIOS settings. I did not see this option in my ASUS BIOS, if someone could help me find it I'd be super appreciative.

In this process I am using CPU-Z, as instructed by AMD Robert to monitor my voltage, using NO other monitoring programs and being sure that any third party background apps are also not running. This included turning of ASUS' Aura sync and leaving it off.
 

After changing my BIOS settings, I first tried the Ryzen Balanced Power plan as was mentioned in previous edits of his post and voltages did not change, staying around 1.4V+ with the occasional drop to 0.9
Then I tried the Windows Balanced Power Plan with the same results.

Then when I turn on Windows Power Saver my voltages drop straight to 0.9, and I am no longer able to use my PC the way I want to.

So I then went back into BIOS settings and turned off PBO to see if this might help.

Came back and followed the same three steps and got the same results. Ryzen balanced, Windows Balanced, and then Power saver.
 

Power saver is once again the only plan with sane idle voltages, but still, of course makes my PC unusable for what I intended it.
 

I am out of ideas. I want some help. I just spent an insane amount of money putting together my first usable gaming PC in over 5 years, excitedly bragged to my family and friends how I could stop playing browser games and start playing modern games with them only to find I potentially put together a ticking time bomb for over one grand that I'll be lucky to keep working for two years at this rate.
 

I am here to carry out any tests you might want me to run, within reason to help resolve this issue, or find out the cause. GIve me some ideas, some insight. Tell me about your own experience with this release. What have you tried? Does anyone else have a similar build to mine?
 

Thank you for reading, I'd love for everything to just be working correctly. I didn't know what safe voltages for a 7nm processor were two days ago. I didn't know ideal CPU temps two days ago. I've learned so much I never cared to learn about this processor when all I want to do is play a video game. It's nonsensical. If there's something I'm not understanding correclty PLEASE educate me. I am so lost at this point

EDIT: This issue has been "Mostly" resolved by a few clever people in this thread, and a megathread has been made with a very good collection of info

 

[Xaring]

Single core max safe voltage is 1.47V, you're fine. MAX CORE safe voltage is 1.325V. Under idle, only a couple of cores are sucking up power. 

 

And even if during boost it goes over 1.47V it will be OK. Don't worry about it. You have warranty covering your parts, and if it does not fail during the first 6 months of use, it wont fail in the long run. 

About the RAM timings, dont use XPM, just make the frequency 3200MHz and leave the rest on auto.

 

Your temperatures are perfectly fine too. You could change the fan curve to something more reasonable so the fan does not ramp up so much. 
Id do something like 40%(min) @ 30ºC, 50% @ 40ºC, 60% at 50ºC, 70% @ 65ºC, 90% @ 80ºC and 100% at >85ºC.

 

This way the fans will only kick in hard when your CPU really needs it. There is no problem in a CPU running "hot", as long as it's under the safe temperature (normally around 90ºC).

My Old I5 4690K overclocked ar 4.4GHz runs at 83-89ºC under load (depending on winter/summer temps and humidity), and has been doing it for years now as my daily driver.

 

Your PC wont break in 2 years time, as long as you got a decent PSU (which you dont mention).

 

Stop looking so deep into it. Everything is working as intended.

[MrMoonboots]

1 minute ago, Xaring said:

Single core max safe voltage is 1.47V, you're fine. MAX CORE safe voltage is 1.325V. Under idle, only a couple of cores are sucking up power. 

 

And even if during boost it goes over 1.47V it will be OK. Don't worry about it. You have warranty covering your parts, and if it does not fail during the first 6 months of use, it wont fail in the long run. 

About the RAM timings, dont use XPM, just make the frequency 3200MHz and leave the rest on auto.

 

Your temperatures are perfectly fine too. You could change the fan curve to something more reasonable so the fan does not ramp up so much. 
Id do something like 40%(min) @ 30ºC, 50% @ 40ºC, 60% at 50ºC, 70% @ 65ºC, 90% @ 80ºC and 100% at >85ºC.

 

This way the fans will only kick in hard when your CPU really needs it. There is no problem in a CPU running "hot", as long as it's under the safe temperature (normally around 90ºC).

My Old I5 4690K overclocked ar 4.4GHz runs at 83-89ºC under load (depending on winter/summer temps and humidity), and has been doing it for years now as my daily driver.

 

Your PC wont break in 2 years time, as long as you got a decent PSU (which you dont mention).

 

Stop looking so deep into it. Everything is working as intended.

Forgot to mention PSU, I have an EVGA 650W fully modular. I may very well be overthinking this. As I said this is my first build, but even with that in mind it just does not make sense to me that PBO goes off and my clocks shoot to 4.2ghz at the slightest nudge of a mouse, opening an empty folder, or a blank text file.

Maybe I'm not used to it. It does not seem right.

[xg32]

 

-.1v offset, stop blaming the cpu, if you are unwilling to do minor adjustments perhaps don't be an early adapter, the reason your ram doesn't boot at 3200 is because you decided to go with a x470, if it was ur first pc ever, x470 and zen 2 probably wouldn't be the combo i'd recommend, but again, it's not zen 2's fault.

[Xaring]

Its what the boost does, gives you a real quick burst of "instant" power, so everything feels quick and snappy.

 

Once the task is done, it goes back to idle-ish.

 

Yeah, also try with an Undervolt, It can help with the numbers. No issues in trying.

[MrMoonboots]

2 hours ago, xg32 said:

 

-.1v offset, stop blaming the cpu, if you are unwilling to do minor adjustments perhaps don't be an early adapter, the reason your ram doesn't boot at 3200 is because you decided to go with a x470, if it was ur first pc ever, x470 and zen 2 probably wouldn't be the combo i'd recommend, but again, it's not zen 2's fault.

Spare me the "Dont be an early adopter", this is my first build and I'm just trying to play video games, not beta test AMDs new products. I wasn't aware there was even a 3700X until I started putting it together, and how was I supposed to know, someone whos not tech savvy, with all the hype around the 3000 series that buying this would be a bad move?
It was this forum that told me to do it. Miss me with that patronizing BS.
 

[LienusLateTips]

2 minutes ago, MrMoonboots said:

Didn't do research on a product that wasn't released lol
Loan me your time machine sometime you stupid twat.

Maybe wait till it releases? You used an old board that isn't fully supported, nor did you do your proper research. Pretty much EVERY platform has these issues on release.

[MrMoonboots]

Just now, LienusLateTips said:

Maybe wait till it releases? You used an old board that isn't fully supported, nor did you do your proper research. Pretty much EVERY platform has these issues on release.

Sure, keep piling on with the "You should have waited", this same forum was telling me three weeks ago to "Stop my 2700x build in its tracks to wait for the 3700x" but whatever, 180s like this are totally understandable when you can't justify release problems like this. I'm just glad you're acknowledging my complaints as valid. Thanks buddy

 

This release has been garbage.

[MrMoonboots]

37 minutes ago, Xaring said:

Its what the boost does, gives you a real quick burst of "instant" power, so everything feels quick and snappy.

 

Once the task is done, it goes back to idle-ish.

 

Yeah, also try with an Undervolt, It can help with the numbers. No issues in trying.

Maybe I'm not understanding here. You're telling me once its done it should go back to idleish, you mention quick bursts of instant power.

But like I said, I don't just occasionally touch 1.4V. I sit there. My clock speeds are generally 4ghz and higher. With nothing that would necessarily warrant a "Boost"
What am I missing?

[Master Disaster]

32 minutes ago, MrMoonboots said:

Maybe I'm not understanding here. You're telling me once its done it should go back to idleish, you mention quick bursts of instant power.

But like I said, I don't just occasionally touch 1.4V. I sit there. My clock speeds are generally 4ghz and higher. With nothing that would necessarily warrant a "Boost"
What am I missing?

You're missing nothing, it's either one of two things.,.

 

1) The platform is behaving as intended but because it's so new everyone hasn't had a chance to get used to it yet.

2) It's early adopter problems that will get fixed with AGESA updates.

 

Ftr my 3800X is operating the same as yours but I'm not worried about it because in the end, temps don't exceed what I consider to be dangerous and if it is early adopter problems then it'll be fixed long before it causes any damage.

 

Fyi AGESA for Zen 2 is still very much in BETA.

 

Edit - One last thing I forgot, I ran a 2700X in my X570 board for 3 weeks and I had to manually set voltages for both Vcore & SOC because the board was pumping WAAAAAY to much power which was causing high idle temps.

 

I guess Zen 2 is just power hungry which is why boards seem to be supplying to much voltage.

[MrMoonboots]

2 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

You're missing nothing, it's either one of two things.,.

 

1) The platform is behaving as intended but because it's so new everyone hasn't had a chance to get used to it yet.

2) It's early adopter problems that will get fixed with AGESA updates.

 

Ftr my 3800X is operating the same as yours but I'm not worried about it because in the end, temps don't exceed what I consider to be dangerous and if it is early adopter problems then it'll be fixed long before it causes any damage.

 

Fyi AGESA for Zen 2 is still very much in BETA.

I appreciate it and honestly just hope I'm overreacting, being its my first build, I don't know the ins and outs of every one of the hundreds of things that could go wrong with every single part, and would have no context to anticipate these numbers. And honestly really no frame of reference to understand it when I saw them anyways. I'm not super tech savvy so I don't know whats safe, and there seem to be two groups of people I'm hearing from: "1.4 at idle will kill your CPU in a few months" vs "1.4 at idle is normal for AMD and you have nothing to worry about"

Thats why these are the kind of insights I was hoping for posting this thread. If you're not worried that calms my nerves a lot.

[Master Disaster]

2 minutes ago, MrMoonboots said:

I appreciate it and honestly just hope I'm overreacting, being its my first build, I don't know the ins and outs of every one of the hundreds of things that could go wrong with every single part, and would have no context to anticipate these numbers. And honestly really no frame of reference to understand it when I saw them anyways. I'm not super tech savvy so I don't know whats safe, and there seem to be two groups of people I'm hearing from: "1.4 at idle will kill your CPU in a few months" vs "1.4 at idle is normal for AMD and you have nothing to worry about"

Thats why these are the kind of insights I was hoping for posting this thread. If you're not worried that calms my nerves a lot.

The people saying it'll kill your CPU in a few months have no idea what they're talking about, how could they, Zen 2 hasn't been out a few months yet.

 

Look at it this way, AMD and their board partners have had Zen 2 running in test labs for literally months. The absolute most anyone else has had one running is 21 days. Maybe things aren't quite as intended but I struggle to believe AMD would risk their hard fought for lead by releasing a product that was going to start frying itself in a few months time. Imagine the PR nightmare that would bring.

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, MrMoonboots said:

PBO is so sensitive simply moving the mouse will send my clocks to 4.2GHZ and my fans will spin up and not stop until I do, but once I do it doesn't matter much because the fans spin up every ten seconds because of the huge temperature fluctuation that happens minute-to-minute anyways.

Boosting up is normal even on Intel, wiggling my mouse does exactly that on my 4930k. That said the fans shouldn't kick in to overdrive, that sounds like a motherboard fan profile issue and isn't CPU related. Have a look in the bios for fan settings and set the CPU fan to silent mode or equivalent, or if you can set a custom fan curve in the software control suite

 

1 hour ago, MrMoonboots said:

CPU temps fluctuate a massive 20 degrees between 30c to 50c nonstop at idle, but settle around 50-60 under load, with my highest observed peak at about 73 degrees.

These temperatures are fairly typical, however if you don't like the vcore as you've mentioned just set it to 1.35V and it'll go no higher than that. Under stock settings for clocks 1.35V should be more than enough unless you're rather unlucky on the silicon quality, 1.38V would be the next step if 1.35V doesn't work.

 

Edit:

Also the vcore being at 1.4V doesn't actually mean the CPU is drawing a lot of power. Without an high workload demand the clocks may have kicked up necessitating the increase in vcore but without the actual CPU load the current draw is low therefor power usage is low.  Me moving my mouse around and the vcore going to max and boost clocks apply isn't the same power draw as Prime95 or Cinebench at the same vcore and clocks.

[Master Disaster]

5 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Boosting up is normal even on Intel, wiggling my mouse does exactly that on my 4930k. That said the fans shouldn't kick in to overdrive, that sounds like a motherboard fan profile issue and isn't CPU related. Have a look in the bios for fan settings and set the CPU fan to silent mode or equivalent, or if you can set a custom fan curve in the software control suite

 

These temperatures are fairly typical, however if you don't like the vcore as you've mentioned just set it to 1.35V and it'll go no higher than that. Under stock settings for clocks 1.35V should be more than enough unless you're rather unlucky on the silicon quality, 1.38V would be the next step if 1.35V doesn't work.

First thing I did was set a manual Vcore of 1.35v, the board totally ignored it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[leadeater]

2 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

First thing I did was set a manual Vcore of 1.35v, the board totally ignored it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Motherboard: "I know better than you". Sounds like it needs a good slap .

[Master Disaster]

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Motherboard: "I know better than you". Sounds like it needs a good slap .

Lmao.

 

Though it's entirety possible it does know better than me, I've had a Zen 2 for less than 24 hours at this point. I'm gonna mess with offset mode today as per AMD Michaels instructions.

[Quadriplegic]

Asus boards have been slammed in the past for setting too high voltage. 

 

[paulmohr]

I read the same article you did. He does mention that he is mostly concerned with machines that are pegged at a high voltage and never drop. Yours is dropping, just not as often as you would like to see it. He also mentioned that these cpus will not look like what we are used to seeing when monitoring them, but its ok that is how they are supposed to work.

 

As for the older chipset thing, eh, people are having the same problems on the x570 boards. As a matter of fact I read that the x570 chipsets actually pull more power, which is why they have a built in cooling fan. I think the biggest thing we are going to lose using older boards is we probably won't as good of support for as long.

 

I have a 3600 on a b450 board. Luckily I don't seem to be having the issues others are having. Yes my voltages jump around, as do my temps. Not as wild though that I can tell.

 

And I completely agree with you, we shouldn't have to pay this kind of money to be beta testers, that is total bullshit. I don't care if its par for the course and that is what you get for being an "early adopter". Just because it is happening doesn't make it right. They are in too big of a hurry competing and trying rush new stuff out to make sure its working right first.

 

Let me ask you an honest question though. Had you never used a monitor to check this stuff would you be worried about it? I mean its not over heating and shutting down, crashing or doing screwy stuff while your trying to use it right? Sometimes ignorance is bliss lol.

[MrMoonboots]

1 minute ago, paulmohr said:

I read the same article you did. He does mention that he is mostly concerned with machines that are pegged at a high voltage and never drop. Yours is dropping, just not as often as you would like to see it. He also mentioned that these cpus will not look like what we are used to seeing when monitoring them, but its ok that is how they are supposed to work.

 

As for the older chipset thing, eh, people are having the same problems on the x570 boards. As a matter of fact I read that the x570 chipsets actually pull more power, which is why they have a built in cooling fan. I think the biggest thing we are going to lose using older boards is we probably won't as good of support for as long.

 

I have a 3600 on a b450 board. Luckily I don't seem to be having the issues others are having. Yes my voltages jump around, as do my temps. Not as wild though that I can tell.

 

And I completely agree with you, we shouldn't have to pay this kind of money to be beta testers, that is total bullshit. I don't care if its par for the course and that is what you get for being an "early adopter". Just because it is happening doesn't make it right. They are in too big of a hurry competing and trying rush new stuff out to make sure its working right first.

 

Let me ask you an honest question though. Had you never used a monitor to check this stuff would you be worried about it? I mean its not over heating and shutting down, crashing or doing screwy stuff while your trying to use it right? Sometimes ignorance is bliss lol.

Well, I initially began looking into this issue when I noticed my fans would spin up almost every ten seconds with nothing going on. While it made a very soothing ocean tide like effect I didn't really understand what was happening. As soon as I looked into "Zen2" on google and tooled search results to about a month ago I got sucked into this rabbit hole.
While frustrating, I did manage to learn a whole lot about my computer I didn't before.

Thank you for your input, glad to hear from others with the zen2 about this.

I am going to look into the fan settings @leadeater and see if maybe I can help it. Thank you!

@Master Disaster Thats good to know. Thanks again for your help

[paulmohr]

ya that fan thing is odd, but you should be able to fix it by adjusting them if its an option. I had to redo all of mine, but mine was the opposite, they didn't spin up as fast as I wanted. They wouldn't hit full rpm unless my temps hit like 80 degrees and my computer just doesn't get that hot. I reset them to go full power at 70c and stay fairly slow at anything under 50c.

[MrMoonboots]

New update.
I left my computer on (In windows Power Saver mode) and turned the monitor off and tried to go to sleep when eventually I heard something click.

The default RGB turned on inside the case. The PC randomly shut off. And there was a red light on the motherboard indicating a problem with the CPU according to the motherboards user guide.
I didn't think to nab a picture. What do I do from here? Anything I should do to find out what might have caused this?

[Master Disaster]

1 hour ago, MrMoonboots said:

New update.
I left my computer on (In windows Power Saver mode) and turned the monitor off and tried to go to sleep when eventually I heard something click.

The default RGB turned on inside the case. The PC randomly shut off. And there was a red light on the motherboard indicating a problem with the CPU according to the motherboards user guide.
I didn't think to nab a picture. What do I do from here? Anything I should do to find out what might have caused this?

Can't say with absolute certainty but whenni first got my 2700X running on a ROG STRIX X370-F Gaming that happened to me a few times. After about a month AMD released an AGESA update and if stopped.

 

Keep an eye on it and if after the non BETA AGESA update it carries on contact your retailer and talk to them about an RMA on the board and CPU.

 

 

[WereCatf]

5 hours ago, MrMoonboots said:

go to 1.4V+

So, you're saying that your voltages go to normal boost-voltages? Well, look at that!

[Jumper118]

just set manual voltage then. my cpu runs fine a 4.3ghz 1.26v, ob and pbo and all these auto oc crap are always rubbish, always have been and always will be. 

[Darkjacky]

My 3900x likes to request 1.5v stock bios settings. Temperatures spike to 95 celcius and it runs at 3.95-4.025GHz. Decided to take a look at voltages and max boost clocks and found that it can run stable at 4.3GHz all core at 1.275v LLC maxed. Temps never go above 90c now. Pretty sure I could lower the voltage slightly.

I will say that I did a poor job on applying my thermal paste but I cant exactly redo it right now as I don't have more. Once I get my thermals under control I don't think 4.4GHz is that far off.

I greatly undervolted the SOC too as it seemed to make a difference in the heat output and it runs stable at lower voltages. I tried all the way to 0.85v which ran stable. I settled at 0.95v just in case.

 

Honestly if the CPU runs at such high voltages out of the box you should probably not worry about it too much.