Gravity: The Documentary - India's destruction of Satellites poses danger to ISS Astronauts

[ouroesa]

6 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

How exactly would that work?

 

The impact shatters the satellite into thousands of pieces. And it's even worse if the impact device also contains explosives.

 

At best, they maybe could "aim down" with the impact device, but that wouldn't really help if there's stuff below the satellite (which, the ISS is below the satellite that was destroyed).

 

You'd have to physically grab and capture the satellite, whole, intact, in order to "shoot it off into space".

I wasn't referring to the space junk mentioned in the article. Talking about the mounds of 'dead' satellites still in orbit and to get them out of orbit so that orbit can be used for something else. It's akin to someone buying a new car and just leaving the old one in the middle of the road...sorta kinda. But then again, probably a reason for everything and I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed.

[79wjd]

27 minutes ago, ouroesa said:

I wasn't referring to the space junk mentioned in the article. Talking about the mounds of 'dead' satellites still in orbit and to get them out of orbit so that orbit can be used for something else. It's akin to someone buying a new car and just leaving the old one in the middle of the road...sorta kinda. But then again, probably a reason for everything and I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed.

The more viable alternative is to de-orbit something and let it burn up in the atmosphere. It would take a significant amount of energy to force a satellite into a higher orbit and a ludicrous amount to send it out into deep space. Any extra energy would need to be launched with the satellite on day 1, which would also increase costs.

 

TL;DR it's expensive

[ouroesa]

1 minute ago, 79wjd said:

The more viable alternative is to de-orbit something and let it burn up in the atmosphere. It would take a significant amount of energy to force a satellite into a higher orbit and a ludicrous amount to send it out into deep space. Any extra energy would need to be launched with the satellite on day 1, which would also increase costs.

 

TL;DR it's expensive

Thank you captain

[Dash Lambda]

1 hour ago, dalekphalm said:

You're actually super duper too late.

I'm aware that we've done it before, but like you said it'd be a different story if we did it today. Just like how blowing up Sputnik wouldn't have been a big deal (well, in practical terms...), but blowing up anything in orbit today is.

[dalekphalm]

1 hour ago, ouroesa said:

I wasn't referring to the space junk mentioned in the article. Talking about the mounds of 'dead' satellites still in orbit and to get them out of orbit so that orbit can be used for something else. It's akin to someone buying a new car and just leaving the old one in the middle of the road...sorta kinda. But then again, probably a reason for everything and I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Yeah as @79wjd stated, the biggest reason is cost. There's a sort of "gentleman's agreement" where companies promise to leave enough propellant in reserve to deorbit the satellite.

 

The problem is, many companies or governments often simply don't include the reserve fuel to save on cost, or they use the reserve fuel to extend the life of the satellite itself.

 

Most satellites "die" when they run out of fuel or power. Once that happens, the satellite basically just stays put until it slowly (over like, hundreds or thousands of years, in some case) drops it's orbit until it eventually deorbits and burns up.

37 minutes ago, Dash Lambda said:

I'm aware that we've done it before, but like you said it'd be a different story if we did it today. Just like how blowing up Sputnik wouldn't have been a big deal (well, in practical terms...), but blowing up anything in orbit today is.

Oh certainly. If they did that, it would knock out half the GPS satellites, and possibly damage or destroy the ISS. It would be... uh... very bad. It would also likely knock out electrical grids on a continent scale (though that depends on how hardened the grid is, and how big the blast is).

[KJaboski]

 

[Guest]

11 hours ago, xAcid9 said:

ISS.. I misread ISIS when i was scrolling facebook half hour ago and thought why the f Nasa care about ISIS. 

Both their rockets are explosive

[justpoet]

Clearly the solution is easier…and fun!

[GoldenLag]

9 hours ago, ouroesa said:

And here I thought it was pretty difficult to keep things in orbit. Why don't they have an 'orbit ejection device' similar to a small rocket that shoots the satellites off into space once they are dead?

they do. in low earth orbit its called the atmosphere. it will slow down pieces relativly fast.

 

in high earth orbit, you might have a deorbit booster, but in geostationary or higher it is normal to place it into a parking orbit.

[GoldenLag]

the debris should proably de-orbit in a couple of decades. LEO isnt very friendly to stuff wanting to stick around. 

[Delicieuxz]

So, China, Russia, and the US have all previously done this same anti-satellite test. And it sounds like India's test has created the least space debris out of all of them because it was performed in a lower orbit.

 

NASA attacks India’s ‘terrible’ space weapon test, but US is creator of much more space debris

Quote

But the latest 60 trackable bits represent a tiny number compared to the total of 21,000 pieces larger than 10cm that NASA is already watching. A third of those were created in previous anti-satellite weapons tests by Russia, China and the US itself.

 

...

 

“It is indeed hypocritical for the US to complain since the Pentagon has created more space debris than any other nation on the planet,” says Bruce K. Gagnon, coordinator of the Global Network Against Weapons & Nuclear Power in Space.

 

...

 

The debris created by the Indian test will have a much less lasting impact on orbital safety than the ones the other space powers have left behind, says Brahma Chellaney, Professor of Strategic Studies at the Center for Policy Research in New Delhi.

 

“The debris from the Indian test, because it is in low orbit, will burn and fall back onto the Earth in the coming months, if not weeks. But the debris from the US and Chinese actions will persist for many years,” Chellaney told RT.

 

...

 

Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi announced his country conducted its anti-satellite weapons test on March 28, shooting down its own low-orbit satellite with a ground-launched missile. At the time, US Air Force Space Command said the debris were no danger to the ISS.

 

India has become the fourth country to successfully test an anti-satellite weapon, after China, Russia and the US.

[mr moose]

I have a really big trampoline in my back yard, they are more than welcome to use it if they need to jump.

[CarlBar]

47 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

the debris should proably de-orbit in a couple of decades. LEO isnt very friendly to stuff wanting to stick around. 

 

Far less than that actually.

 

As an aside i don't believe the US test created a lot of debris as off the top of my head it was against a satellite that was allready on a reentry trajectory. So most of the debris went into the atmosphere in a very short period fo time after the interception.

[GoldenLag]

1 minute ago, CarlBar said:

 

Far less than that actually.

 

As an aside i don't believe the US test created a lot of debris as off the top of my head it was against a satellite that was allready on a reentry trajectory. So most of the debris went into the atmosphere in a very short period fo time after the interception.

there is the stuff that got flung in the prograde vector. those will be sticking around for quite a bit longer. 

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

So, China, Russia, and the US have all previously done this same anti-satellite test. And it sounds like India's test has created the least space debris out of all of them because it was performed in a lower orbit.

 

NASA attacks India’s ‘terrible’ space weapon test, but US is creator of much more space debris

That’s even worse for India. Can’t even learn from others past mistakes, not sure if they read the literature? 

[Delicieuxz]

8 hours ago, CarlBar said:

As an aside i don't believe the US test created a lot of debris as off the top of my head it was against a satellite that was allready on a reentry trajectory. So most of the debris went into the atmosphere in a very short period fo time after the interception.

I'm pretty sure that was just a PR narrative to sugar-coat the hypocrisy of the test to the US public. When China did their satellite test, the US made all this noise about how irresponsible it was and how China is weaponizing space. And then one year later the US says one of their satellites is malfunctioning and is on a dangerous downward trajectory and has to be destroyed (with a previously-untested and probably non-existent anti-satellite weapon that just happens to now exist and be in need of testing) for safety concerns. No satellite had ever needed to be shot down before, and no satellite has needed to be shot down since.

 

I think that the US government's narrative was pretty transparent as just PR BS to rationalize testing the weapon that the US felt jealous about China having while the US didn't have it.

 

US bitched when China did their test, rationalized their own test, and now is bitching again when India does the same test. It's just all about polarizing public perception again US rivals and hyping oneself up to be the only justified party despite doing all the same things. The US government always does the same act with everything: What anyone else does is bad; What we do is noble and justified. It's just hypocritical propaganda.

[JamieLanger]

Ahh.. Exploited the earth to the fullest, target the space now.

I just feel like making another Trump meme with working fake tweet generator with images and hope it goes viral.

Good Luck geniuses !

[suicidalfranco]

Round them up and give earth the ring it deserves

[GoldenLag]

15 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

sadly Earth does not have a Roche Limit, so rings are impossible here ,_,

It does, but it heavily depends on the size of the object and density. 

 

If the moon got really close it should start to fall appart. 

 

 

I dont have universe Sandbox 2 to test this however.

 

So poease point out if im wrong

[CarlBar]

3 hours ago, Delicieuxz said:

I'm pretty sure that was just a PR narrative to sugar-coat the hypocrisy of the test to the US public. When China did their satellite test, the US made all this noise about how irresponsible it was and how China is weaponizing space. And then later the US says one of their satellites is malfunctioning and is on a dangerous downward trajectory and has to be destroyed (with a previously-untested anti-satellite weapon that just happens to suddenly be in need of testing) for safety concerns. No satellite had ever needed to be shot down before, and no satellite has needed to be shot down since.

 

I think that the US government's narrative was pretty transparent as just PR BS to rationalize testing the weapon that the US felt jealous about China having while the US didn't have it.

 

US bitched when China did their test, rationalized their own test, and now is bitching again when India does the same test. It's just all about polarizing public perception again US rivals and hyping oneself up to be the only justified party despite doing all the same things. The US government always does the same act with everything: What anyone else does is bad; What we do is noble and justified. It's just hypocritical propaganda.

 

If it wasn't on a natural re entry course there's countless organizations worldwide that could have called them on it that the US does not control. The why they shot it down, (toxic fuel), undoubtedly was a BS excuse, but if it really wasn't going to re-enter we'd have heard about it.

[williamcll]

This sure will turn them into a Superpower by 2020

[CarlBar]

7 hours ago, Delicieuxz said:

I'm pretty sure that was just a PR narrative to sugar-coat the hypocrisy of the test to the US public. When China did their satellite test, the US made all this noise about how irresponsible it was and how China is weaponizing space. And then later the US says one of their satellites is malfunctioning and is on a dangerous downward trajectory and has to be destroyed (with a previously-untested anti-satellite weapon that just happens to suddenly be in need of testing) for safety concerns. No satellite had ever needed to be shot down before, and no satellite has needed to be shot down since.

 

I think that the US government's narrative was pretty transparent as just PR BS to rationalize testing the weapon that the US felt jealous about China having while the US didn't have it.

 

US bitched when China did their test, rationalized their own test, and now is bitching again when India does the same test. It's just all about polarizing public perception again US rivals and hyping oneself up to be the only justified party despite doing all the same things. The US government always does the same act with everything: What anyone else does is bad; What we do is noble and justified. It's just hypocritical propaganda.

 

WTH happened to my reply to this...

 

Anyway to re-write what i allready wrote. There's countless organisations around the globe that would know if it was actually on a reentry trajectory anytime soon. Someone would have called the US if that part was BS. Everything else about it almost certainly was BS, (well Hydrazine is toxic as well), but you can take the reentry trajectory part as a given or we'd have heard multiple people howling about it.