Windows 10 May Reserve Another 7GB For Updates.

[jagdtigger]

17 hours ago, mr moose said:

What you have just claimed here is false, absolutely false

Yeah, because a small number of cherry picked example totally means the updates are more important than actually using your head and worth the risk of getting an unstable/borked system.... /s

[79wjd]

1 hour ago, jagdtigger said:

Yeah, because a small number of cherry picked example totally means the updates are more important than actually using your head and worth the risk of getting an unstable/borked system.... /s

The vast majority of users don't have the technical knowledge, experience, or care to avoid unnecessary risks. So, yes, updates are critical to those types of people. 

 

The small minority of users that believe they have the capability to protect themselves (are mostly wrong) can choose to use something better for their specific needs.

[leadeater]

5 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Checking updates takes time though, and you can not always allocate that time the day of the release. So blocking updates and then letting them through once they have been tested is a pretty valid strategy if you ask me.

Yea.... that's still not what we, or at least I was talking about and you know it 

[mr moose]

9 hours ago, TechyBen said:

Again. But should I let MS decide? Should MS be able to decide I cannot work today? I have Win 7 because I do not wish to give that control to MS. What they are doing to 10 makes things worse in that regards.

 

However, this is a mute point. The 7GB is a general cache, and there is nothing stopping say Steam from using it also, as well as Updates.

That the same argument made before, if windows home is preventing you from working then use a different OS.

 

6 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I am pretty sure Microsoft has demonstrated that they are not exactly omnipotent enough to be perfect about updates either. I prefer being in control of my own computer.

That's exactly my point. No one is perfect and everything will have a errors at some point. even you looking after your own gear will lead to an error at some point.  

6 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I guess you can think of it like with self driving cars. Humans make mistakes, but I am not sure replacing all drivers with self driving cars is a good idea until the system is almost perfect.

 

Right now I think it's a stretch to say Microsoft is even "decent" with update quality. They are far from when I would feel comfortable handing the wheel over to them, and every time an update has issues they slip even further in my eyes. Maybe if they don't have any issues that could affect me in all of 2019 I might turn on automatic updates for 2020. None of this "shit we need to pull this update because it is deleting files on our customers' computers" or "oops, this update reset a bunch of settings which benefits us but screws customers over. Sorry".

Right now people are under the delusion that updates are optional and they clearly don't understand the gravity of security when operating in an always online environment. What you are literally asking for is perfect operation as a proviso when the issue is not even about quality but necessity.

 

5 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

Yeah, because a small number of cherry picked example totally means the updates are more important than actually using your head and worth the risk of getting an unstable/borked system.... /s

This is just as wrong as the last post.

[jagdtigger]

4 hours ago, 79wjd said:

So, yes, updates are critical to those types of people. 

To them it is more important that they can use their PC whenever they want. This idiotic forced update blocks that in many cases. Guess what they are gonna do.... (they just gonna look it up how to disable it permanently)

 

1 minute ago, mr moose said:

This is just as wrong as the last post.

Its not wrong, its reality. The only wrong thing here is MS and their dumb ideas like forced updates. (Especially with currently released updates total lack of quality and stability.)

Edited January 25, 2019 by jagdtigger

[mr moose]

11 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

To them it is more important that they can use their PC whenever they want. This idiotic forced update blocks that in many cases. Guess what they are gonna do.... (they just gonna look it up how to disable it permanently)

 

Its not wrong, its reality. The only wrong thing here is MS and their dumb ideas like forced updates. (Especially with currently released updates total lack of quality and stability.)

I really hope you don't advise people on security related issues. Updates are essentially for security.  whether you want to believe that or not.

[Master Delta Chief]

22 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

To them it is more important that they can use their PC whenever they want. This idiotic forced update blocks that in many cases. Guess what they are gonna do.... (they just gonna look it up how to disable it permanently)

 

Its not wrong, its reality. The only wrong thing here is MS and their dumb ideas like forced updates. (Especially with currently released updates total lack of quality and stability.)

It's unlikely that non-techie customers are going to search for a way to disable their updates, unless they're somewhat experienced in a way. The likely group of ordinary customers that are going to be looking for a way to disable the 'forced' updates, are going to be gamers. Regardless, while I am not a fan of those updates that cause a random restart, it's still necessary to ensure that security is being enhanced on the customers computers.

 

If only Microsoft would start improving the quality of their updates and make sure that restarts won't happen at random unless it's absolutely necessary, we will be dealing with what we have right now. And if you really don't want updates, just change the GPO or enable the data-limit option in Settings. 

 

EDIT: How in heavens is this thread still ongoing for like 23 pages?

[mr moose]

2 hours ago, Master Delta Chief said:

 

EDIT: How in heavens is this thread still ongoing for like 23 pages?

Because just when you think you have qualified everything and explained yourself, someone comes in and quotes you from 10 pages ago, hasn't read any of the rest of the thread and assumes you've missed some major issue in the windows update system and the discussion starts all over again.

 

 

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

1 hour ago, Master Delta Chief said:

EDIT: How in heavens is this thread still ongoing for like 23 pages?

because argument reasons. 

[leadeater]

11 hours ago, Master Delta Chief said:

EDIT: How in heavens is this thread still ongoing for like 23 pages?

Because it's about Windows 10/Microsoft, these topics never end.

[Dylanc1500]

3 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Because it's about Windows 10/Microsoft, these topics never end.

It's the gift that keeps on giving.

[jagdtigger]

13 hours ago, Master Delta Chief said:

It's unlikely that non-techie customers are going to search for a way to disable their updates

They looked for ways to disable it in the past, how 10 would be different?

[TechyBen]

21 hours ago, mr moose said:

That the same argument made before, if windows home is preventing you from working then use a different OS.

 

That's exactly my point. No one is perfect and everything will have a errors at some point. even you looking after your own gear will lead to an error at some point.  

Right now people are under the delusion that updates are optional and they clearly don't understand the gravity of security when operating in an always online environment. What you are literally asking for is perfect operation as a proviso when the issue is not even about quality but necessity.

 

This is just as wrong as the last post.

I am using a different OS. Your point?

 

Quote

No one is perfect and everything will have a errors at some point.

 I am not complaining about errors. I am complaining about the removal and refusal for choice.

 

I use *multiple* OSs that offer that choice and user experience. Multiple.

[mr moose]

2 hours ago, TechyBen said:

I am using a different OS. Your point?

 

 I am not complaining about errors. I am complaining about the removal and refusal for choice.

 

I use *multiple* OSs that offer that choice and user experience. Multiple.

Now you are just being overly general in order to avoid the issue. We have been over this already multiple times in this thread, I suggest you read it again rather than try to rehash it.

[Guest]

Coming back from the old holiday and this thread is still going on lol. In the time taken on this thread all you complainers could have probably worked to buy a new system that can handle an extra 7GB easy dam. 

[TechyBen]

12 hours ago, mr moose said:

Now you are just being overly general in order to avoid the issue. We have been over this already multiple times in this thread, I suggest you read it again rather than try to rehash it.

I have seen Windows 10 forced update crush at least 2 people. Now, in your opinion, considering they were using MS OS that had no forced update, and MS changed that system mid stream... what should I think about it? MS decision, to not give choice, has caused actual harm to people I know.

 

How am I over generalising? There are multiple OSs that offer this choice (iOS, Android, Linux, etc). Some do not allow rollbacks, some do. The 7GB cache (with options I add!!) is a good idea. Forcing the update, or any other, is a poor implementation.

 

Educate your users. If you cannot, then you don't deserve to force it on them.

5 hours ago, RorzNZ said:

Coming back from the old holiday and this thread is still going on lol. In the time taken on this thread all you complainers could have probably worked to buy a new system that can handle an extra 7GB easy dam. 

As said. They can take 700gb if they wish, or the OS needs it. However, if they do it without permission, then that gets flakey.

[jagdtigger]

8 hours ago, RorzNZ said:

In the time taken on this thread all you complainers could have probably worked to buy a new system that can handle an extra 7GB easy dam.  

Yeah, like students/low income ppl could afford to buy a new laptop on MS's whim.... /s

[leadeater]

27 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Yeah, like students/low income ppl could afford to buy a new laptop on MS's whim.... /s

Well here you actually get a $1000 grant for course related costs as part of your student loan which can be used to buy a new laptop, though course books tend to cost a lot so it won't be a good laptop.

 

There are many ways to milk money out for 'poor' students 

[jagdtigger]

3 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Well here you actually get a $1000 grant for course related costs as part of your student loan which can be used to buy a new laptop, though course books tend to cost a lot so it won't be a good laptop.

 

There are many ways to milk money out for 'poor' students 

Well if someone is dumb enough to take a loan for that... (They gonna pay a fortune in interest's and other fees.)

[leadeater]

Just now, jagdtigger said:

Well if someone is dumb enough to take a loan for that... (They gonna pay a fortune in interest's and other fees.)

Interest free here too 

[jagdtigger]

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

Interest free here too 

There is no such thing as free launch. Money has its own price and one way or the other you have to pay that too .

[leadeater]

3 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

There is no such thing as free launch. Money has its own price and one way or the other you have to pay that too .

Well yea, but we don't believe putting student's in to crippling debt is a good idea. We, the people, pay for it as part of our taxes. You still have to pay the loan back and if you leave the country that loan is no longer interest free, keeping educated people in your country is a good idea particularly if you paid for them to get educated.

 

Either way getting money out of students can be easy, knowing how is the trick.

[TechyBen]

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

Well yea, but we don't believe putting student's in to crippling debt is a good idea. We, the people, pay for it as part of our taxes. You still have to pay the loan back and if you leave the country that loan is no longer interest free, keeping educated people in your country is a good idea particularly if you paid for them to get educated.

 

Either way getting money out of students can be easy, knowing how is the trick.

No. Here you are paying Microsoft to gouge customers. But that's a different topic.

[leadeater]

8 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

No. Here you are paying Microsoft to gouge customers. But that's a different topic.

I'm not sure that statement applies to what I said. I was replying to the insinuation that students don't have money to buy laptops where in fact, not just my country, they most certainly do and is common. Finding a higher education course/degree that doesn't use computers at all now days is extremely rare, almost all assignments are submitted through digital learning management systems for various reasons also not applicable to the topic.

 

You can go to pretty much every developed country and walk in to any lecture and ask the students who has a laptop, anything less than 50% and I'll be shocked.

[TechyBen]

4 minutes ago, leadeater said:

I'm not sure that statement applies to what I said. I was replying to the insinuation that students don't have money to buy laptops where in fact, not just my country, they most certainly do and is common. Finding a higher education course/degree that doesn't use computers at all now days is extremely rare, almost all assignments are submitted through digital learning management systems for various reasons also not applicable to the topic.

 

You can go to pretty much every developed country and walk in to any lecture and ask the students who has a laptop, anything less than 50% and I'll be shocked.

Your comment on getting a loan was in defense of MS rollout of OSs... so... yeah.

I don't care if I or anyone else has $1 or a billion $... it may still not be nice for MS to force things on people.

 

The discussion was not on getting new hardware. It was on the OS changing the terms of the deal: