Windows 10 May Reserve Another 7GB For Updates.

[Arika]

25 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

MS could block your net use until you updated. Block your usb/cd use until you updated.

yeah because that's going to go over well given how well the current system is seen by the tech savvy....did you not think that part through?

 

Quote

But nope, they force the update, thus it's not a vaccine

ever heard of "booster shots"? some vaccines loose effectiveness after some time so you need another to keep you immune. so yes, it is a vaccine.

Quote

 It's a service "upgrade" to the latest cash cow.

maybe i'm not using the same version of windows, but the updates are free...where's the "cash cow"?

[Drak3]

48 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Your comparison has been since Linux didn't work for your use case

Linux didn't work, period.

 

Use case is irrelevant.

 

49 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

they should go buy a Mac instead if they don't like Windows.

I didn't say that. I've said multiple times that Unix is a superior alternative to Linux and maintains every advantage of Linux.

 

52 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Addressing the complaints by screwing over everyone that can't afford an update 

Not Microsoft's, or the rest (meaning vast majority) problem.

 

54 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

the real problem of MS not optimizing updates.

Making updates marginally smaller when a pathetic minority of users benefit is a waste of fucking time and money. Better spent on actual development.

[Guest]

59 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

Yeah, polarization is peaked. Time for sunglasses. 

This is not the ideal solution. Other ones were there. It is a "backup" of their previous decision that System restore would be taken away to *free up space*. If this that come in to replace Sys restore, then fine.

Thats really good, I'm sure everyone would appreciate no restore point if an update fails. 

59 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

It did not. They had a gap thus "to fix the problems" is less a correct statement but "to fix *their* problems" is better. They made this mess, now are having to correct for it (by not having a proper cache location, cache management, rollback management, update management etc etc).

Which would probably take up 7GB of space anyway. 

59 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

Forced update to protect us all from the evils? Yeah. So guess how many times my PC has been hacked? Guess how many times a Windows update has failed (any version of windows).

If you keep your Windows updated anyway, as any Windows user should and have a proper antivirus, you shouldn't get hacked. Windows updates most likely fail due to old or incompatible hardware, it's almost never Microsoft's fault. 

59 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

But yeah, if forced updates is how we are going, then I'll just skip to an OS that teaches and trusts me to set a time and place to do it. MS could block your net use until you updated. Block your usb/cd use until you updated.

Its fine by them, they can do whatever they like with 82% of the market share, They don't care about the opinion of one user. Microsoft's most important priority is to update their product, thats why they can have a warranty on Windows, you can't enforce a warranty on software unless you keep it bug an exploit free. Its one thing to make money, its different to keep it.  

59 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

But nope, they force the update, thus it's not a vaccine. It's a service "upgrade" to the latest cash cow.

Vaccines are compulsory in some countries, as they should be. Updates are also free, as are vaccines in modern countries. 

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, RorzNZ said:

Windows updates most likely fail due to old or incompatible hardware

Don't forget network issues.

[Dabombinable]

8 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Don't forget network issues.

I've had updates fail...because my ISP's DNS server went to shit and it was pot luck if any part of the internet was accessible.

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, Dabombinable said:

I've had updates fail...because my ISP's DNS server went to shit and it was pot luck if any part of the internet was accessible.

I've had updates fail on my Surface Pro 4 because of iffy wifi cutting out.

[mynameisjuan]

1 hour ago, Arika S said:

i guarantee, most windows 10 users don't experience the issues you see on these forums, they probably don't even know that there are issues with the updates.

This is very true and why most forums and reviews are terrible places to judge a product. You dont see people login just to say "hey guys, working fine, no problems here, k have a good day". Its where you go to explain the problems you are having, learn how to fix them, discuss them. 

 

Most all these game changing issue Microsoft has been having, for a huge majority of people dont know problems exist or ever experience them. People just want to press power, login to facebook, do some school work, watch netflix and thats it. Just want it to work. This fix keeps the majority of people happy. 

[Blademaster91]

49 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Linux didn't work, period.

 

Use case is irrelevant.

 

I didn't say that. I've said multiple times that Unix is a superior alternative to Linux and maintains every advantage of Linux.

 

Not Microsoft's, or the rest (meaning vast majority) problem.

 

Making updates marginally smaller when a pathetic minority of users benefit is a waste of fucking time and money. Better spent on actual development.

Not irrelevant since it didn't work for you, while it works fine for many others.

And since you insist a paid OS is better than a free one, OSX is the only option of getting an OS that can run Linux and Unix commands.

But it is Microsoft's problem when they push out buggy updates that break enough computers to the point MS has to pull back the update, though i don't know why you wouldn't appreciate more free drive space. And I guess spending it on quality testing was a waste too since MS fired their QA team.

33 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

If you keep your Windows updated anyway, as any Windows user should and have a proper antivirus, you shouldn't get hacked. Windows updates most likely fail due to old or incompatible hardware, it's almost never Microsoft's fault. 

Its fine by them, they can do whatever they like with 82% of the market share, They don't care about the opinion of one user. Microsoft's most important priority is to update their product, thats why they can have a warranty on Windows, you can't enforce a warranty on software unless you keep it bug an exploit free. Its one thing to make money, its different to keep it. 

The security updates are fine, but Microsoft shouldn't be forcing feature updates, i've had updates fail on a network that is fine for everything else or cause problems because the auto updating installs driver updates I didn't need.  Although yeah, Microsoft can do whatever they like but more users are becoming upset with Microsoft's strategy of being force fed updates even while doing something critical for work or class. Microsoft's priority is pushing Windows as a service, essentially making their users the beta testers.

[Drak3]

2 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

OSX is the only option of getting an OS that can run Linux and Unix commands.

FreeBSD.

TrueOS.

Darwin.

Solaris.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

 

The security updates are fine, but Microsoft shouldn't be forcing feature updates, i've had updates fail on a network that is fine for everything else or cause problems because the auto updating installs driver updates I didn't need.  Although yeah, Microsoft can do whatever they like but more users are becoming upset with Microsoft's strategy of being force fed updates even while doing something critical for work or class. Microsoft's priority is pushing Windows as a service, essentially making their users the beta testers.

You can delay updates till night time or a set period. If you weren't a tech enthusiast you might not know you don't need those driver issues. This 7gb is for people who are incompetent at installing updates, or perhaps people too stubborn or ignorant. 

[mynameisjuan]

6 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

And I guess spending it on quality testing was a waste too since MS fired their QA team.

They realized it was a waste when they couldnt test all of the millions of hardware/software configurations. There is a point where throwing more people at testing simulated stations doesnt improve anything. People find fucked up ways to mess their PC up software wise or just the odd ball components that have had a driver update since it was released in 2011. 

 

I hate to say that the public should be the guinea pigs, but there is a point where you need to say enough is enough. Manufacturers and developers need to pick up the slack. 

[Blademaster91]

1 hour ago, Arika S said:

Think of it in the way of Vaccines and herd immunity.

if people keep turning off their updates then computers will become susceptible to security holes/breaches etc etc. while some people know how to keep themselves safe, the majority of people do not, so if you give these people the option of disabling updates, or even parts of updates, then that's more people to potentially infect and more points in which the infection can spread from. whereas if you make it a requirement to update, then there's just the few outliers that are vulnerable and the risk is much lower.

Microsoft only has 2 options

1. Force updates and annoy the enthusiasts who think they should have full control over everything (minority)
2. Allow updates to be optional leaving the less tech savvy people at a much higher risk and then complain and blame microsoft that they didn't get critical updates to protect form the virus #1311 and hardware vulnerability #276 (Majority)

In trying to make an OS built for the majority of people (as of December 2018)

 

then yes, they are going to have to compromise to protect the majority of their customers at the expense of annoying the (vocal) minority because i guarantee, most windows 10 users don't experience the issues you see on these forums, they probably don't even know that there are issues with the updates.

I agree with you there, the updates are needed to keep the majority of people secure who don't care as long as they can turn on their PC to open up a browser and some documents or spreadsheets. But why not hide the option of being able to select certain updates or at least the ability to defer updates, in a few menus that you have to get past most won't be touching anyway?

I'm fine with the updates otherwise, MS can't be to blame for getting hacked if you have the latest security patches, but I really dislike the forced feature and driver updates and those don't make a computer that much more secure.

[jagdtigger]

2 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

MS can't be to blame for getting hacked if you have the latest security patches

Well most of the time ppl dont get hacked, they are just dumb and click on/open almost anything....

[mr moose]

3 hours ago, mynameisjuan said:

They realized it was a waste when they couldnt test all of the millions of hardware/software configurations. There is a point where throwing more people at testing simulated stations doesnt improve anything. People find fucked up ways to mess their PC up software wise or just the odd ball components that have had a driver update since it was released in 2011. 

 

I hate to say that the public should be the guinea pigs, but there is a point where you need to say enough is enough. Manufacturers and developers need to pick up the slack. 

For basic security updates the general public aren't even Guinea pigs, they are tested and validated before release. The only reason all updates go out the to general public before being released to enterprise is at the request of enterprise network admins who want to see update in the wild before they release them across large networks, by which time if there is a problem they have to go mass fault finding on machines that are in use. It wasn't a choice of MS to reduce QC and make general consumers guinea pigs.  Even if that is what some forum members want you to believe. 

 

https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2018/12/10/windows-monthly-security-and-quality-updates-overview/

 

 

Also of interest:

 

https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2018/11/13/windows-10-quality-approach-for-a-complex-ecosystem/

 

[Hellion]

Just when you think Windows 10 couldn't be any more of an over bloated pile of trash, microshaft yells "hold my beer" and now forces users to reserve storage space that the operating system isn't even using.

 

Good job.

[Hellion]

30 minutes ago, mr moose said:

For basic security updates the general public aren't even Guinea pigs, they are tested and validated before release. The only reason all updates go out the to general public before being released to enterprise is at the request of enterprise network admins who want to see update in the wild before they release them across large networks, by which time if there is a problem they have to go mass fault finding on machines that are in use. It wasn't a choice of MS to reduce QC and make general consumers guinea pigs.  Even if that is what some forum members want you to believe. 

 

https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2018/12/10/windows-monthly-security-and-quality-updates-overview/

 

 

Also of interest:

 

https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2018/11/13/windows-10-quality-approach-for-a-complex-ecosystem/

 

 

According to former microshaft employees and the vastly proven failure that is windows updates, any statements microshaft make regarding this are lies..

 

Even if we assume they do actually test basic security patches, the issue with windows 10 is that you are forced updates with every piece of trash they want to jam down your throat so you get all the other garbage they tout as "new features" with it.

 

There's a reason we are now in mid January and the October update has been pulled back twice and still not been made available to the public on large scale. They have had to fix whatever screw ups they made that were causing major widespread issues.

[mr moose]

20 minutes ago, Hellion said:

 

According to former microshaft employees and the vastly proven failure that is windows updates, any statements microshaft make regarding this are lies..

 

Even if we assume they do actually test basic security patches, the issue with windows 10 is that you are forced updates with every piece of trash they want to jam down your throat so you get all the other garbage they tout as "new features" with it.

 

There's a reason we are now in mid January and the October update has been pulled back twice and still not been made available to the public on large scale. They have had to fix whatever screw ups they made that were causing major widespread issues.

I was going to make a bet with another user that someone was going to just dismiss that out of hand with little more than snide remarks and regurgitation of the same old claims.

 

To bad you haven't actually shown how any of it is wrong.  The conversation might have been interesting.

 

EDIT: or to put it a nicer way, stop repeating what has already been said and maybe try to counter some of the evidence that has been linked.

[jagdtigger]

47 minutes ago, mr moose said:

It wasn't a choice of MS to reduce QC and make general consumers guinea pigs

Making excuses for MS again huh. Yes it was their decision, and corporate IT should be checking updates on their machines as that is part of their job instead of making consumers test subjects. (Not up for debate, these are hard facts.)

[mr moose]

Just now, jagdtigger said:

Making excuses for MS again huh. Yes it was their decision, and corporate IT should be checking updates on their machines as that is part of their job instead of making consumers test subjects. (Not up for debate, these are hard facts.)

huh?  you really should spend a little bit of time researching this and understanding what is happening before drawing conclusions.

 

 

 

 

[Dabombinable]

1 hour ago, mr moose said:

It wasn't a choice of MS to reduce QC and make general consumers guinea pigs. 

Microsoft fired all internal testers? And its not their choice to reduce quality control?

[Hellion]

26 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I was going to make a bet with another user that someone was going to just dismiss that out of hand with little more than snide remarks and regurgitation of the same old claims.

 

To bad you haven't actually shown how any of it is wrong.  The conversation might have been interesting.

 

EDIT: or to put it a nicer way, stop repeating what has already been said and maybe try to counter some of the evidence that has been linked.

Unlike you, I don't have the time to spend all day on an internet forum. You'll inevitably claim victory since you seem to literally revolve your life around this place.

 

I also don't hold any credit in statements from the PR department of the actual company in question. They are clearly looking out for their best interests and will tell whatever lies possible in attempt to clear their image.

 

Many third parties have stated exactly what I have. All you have to do is look at things objectively rather then cherry picking samples that support your opinion to see the truth. I'm not doing your homework for you.

[LAwLz]

7 hours ago, Arika S said:

Think of it in the way of Vaccines and herd immunity.

I like the analogy with vaccination. The problem is that the situation we got right now is awful.

Imagine if patches were vaccination.

 

Right now, Microsoft has decided that they are going to vaccinate everyone. Not really a big issue, right? The problem is that they are willing to go so far to keep people vaccinated, that they are resorting to breaking into peoples' homes, kidnapping them and forcefully vaccinating them (not letting users control updates). Well, they say they do give people choices on when to get vaccinated, but if you drag out on it too long then they will break into your house and kidnap you.

 

They do not take into consideration the people who for medical reasons can't get vaccinated (people who has issues with patches). They just forcefully give it to everyone.

 

Another issue is that several of the vaccines they have given out have caused very serious and crippling illnesses in some people. At several points they have recalled vaccines after having injected lots of people with it, because they did not properly test it (updates like 1809).

 

And to top it all off, they are very secretive and do not want to provide information about what the vaccines are against, what they contain or anything of the sorts. They just go "trust us that this is good for you". (No detailed patch notes anymore)

But they have been caught in the past injecting people for "safety" reasons when in reality it was for their own gains (like when they rolled out a "security updates" which also started nagging people to install Windows 10).

 

Now they are demanding that people provide a "vaccination zone" in their houses. 1 square meter of space where someone from Microsoft can stand and give people injections, because apparently some people had their doors locked when Microsoft tried to get in before.

"Oh, you don't have 1 square meter of space in your house that you can spare? Get a bigger house!"

[Peskanova]

13 hours ago, RorzNZ said:

I'm not being mean. 120gb would have been fine a while ago, but now SSDs have dropped in price such as that 250GB SSDs are only $20 more than 120gb. Makes absolutely no sense to keep using 120GB. Arguing over $30ea thats nothing to any company. 

 

Whether anyone likes it or not, this 7GB is going to be allocated to the main drive and locked up as reserved space, no use saying low capacity drives can slice the mustard when they can't anymore. 

Yes but guess when we bought 120gb ssd , 500 ones where expensive, you dont understand that is not 20$ more , its like 60$ more now.

[mr moose]

20 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

Microsoft fired all internal testers? And its not their choice to reduce quality control?

They did fire some and restructured, but they didn't start sending out updates untested.  they made the software engineers test their own work and use the machines they were testing them on instead of sending them to another department. They also started the insider program to help with wider scale release testing.

17 minutes ago, Hellion said:

Unlike you, I don't have the time to spend all day on an internet forum. You'll inevitably claim victory since you seem to literally revolve your life around this place.

 

 

 

I also don't hold any credit in statements from the PR department of the actual company in question. They are clearly looking out for their best interests and will tell whatever lies possible in attempt to clear their image.

 

 

 

Many third parties have stated exactly what I have. All you have to do is look at things objectively rather then cherry picking samples that support your opinion to see the truth. I'm not doing your homework for you.

 

 

 

I've already posted much of the stuff I need to  to back up my assertions, you can't just come into a thread and repeat what has already been discussed then try to wish it away by insinuating someone is asking you to do your home work.  I am not asking you to do anything for me, I am asking you to back up your claims.  I have already added weight to mine.

 

but here's some more just in case you aren't aware of how the windows 10 update system changed from previous systems and how business is treated differently and why.

 

https://mcpmag.com/articles/2015/05/20/windows-10-update-strategies-for-it-pros.aspx

https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/robertsmith/2015/05/13/updated-windows-updatingservicing-guidance-from-ignite-2015/

 

 

Business and IT professionals kept telling MS they did not like having all the updates at the same time. 

[jagdtigger]

1 hour ago, mr moose said:

huh?  you really should spend a little bit of time researching this and understanding what is happening before drawing conclusions.

 

 

 

 

Facts:

-MS fired QC and testing staff

-quality took a noose dive

-made home users test subjects

-turned home users into cash cow by stealing their data even against their will

-made sure you get their newest crapware whatever it takes

 

Pretty clear IMHO whats going on...