After Thai boys were rescued from the cave everyone is happy except Elon Musk (update: Elon apologizes)

[mr moose]

@Master Disaster @LAwLz  My take on it is that no one actually has a new ideas in a vacuum.  All new inventions are actually an evolution of some form of existing idea/device.

 

It's probably best not to think of people today as being inventors but more like evolutionary innovators, that is, taking existing concepts and technology and creating new better or even alternatives from them (which in some cases might just be finding a new design and successfully marketing it).

 

E.G Edison did not invent the light bulb,  Swan (English chemist) invented the incandescent globe but it was based on the principal of already existing technology in the carbon arc lamp.   Conversely Musk has not really invented the hyper loop, but he has devised a new method to resolve issues in first air pressure vehicles experienced (I.E put the cargo in the pod rather than have the pod pull a train).  I think credit where credit is due. 

 

[Arika]

3 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

It's probably best not to think of people today as being inventors but more like evolutionary innovators, that is, taking existing concepts and technology and creating new better or even alternatives from them (which in some cases might just be finding a new design and successfully marketing it).

see: Apple Inc

[mr moose]

9 hours ago, Arika S said:

see: Apple Inc

A very good example.  The number of people who think apple invented the smart phone is quite astounding.  This leads to the one simple conclusion, they took a product and managed to market it so well that it is a synonymous neologism for a smart phone, google have also done this with the search engine.

 

 

[TechGod]

1 hour ago, mr moose said:

A very good example.  The number of people who think apple invented the smart phone is quite astounding.  This leads to the one simple conclusion, they took a product and managed to market it so well that it is a synonymous neologism for a smart phone, google have also done this with the search engine.

 

 

But they did fucking invent the modern smartphone. You people are beyond logic.

[mr moose]

5 minutes ago, TechGod said:

But they did fucking invent the modern smartphone. You people are beyond logic.

??  add the /s or rolleys if you are being sarcastic.

[Stefan Payne]

19 hours ago, SC2Mitch said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-44846945

You was saying? 

If he could, why doesn't he?

Maybe Elon Musk wasn't wrong with what he said? That is also a possibility.

And Elon was there, you weren't....

 

Another Thing you must not forget is Pravda, the Media Rating service that Elon is working on. So the Mainstream Media has an interest in bashing Elon and can not be trusted further than you can throw them...

Its the same shit with that Swede that has more Subs than France people...

They attacked him and it kinda worked. Now they do that to other people they don't like.

 

And Elon is one of those people they don't like. So who to trust? Well, I know who I don't trust. And that is BBC...

You should also see the Video where John Cleese (Monty Python) held up this diagramm. Only 22% (or so) English man trust the Media. 

[Stefan Payne]

11 hours ago, Arika S said:

see: Apple Inc

No, that's wrong.

Everything was already available from other manufacturers.

 

All that Apple did was to market their Phone to the Enduser and not the Business Man as it was the case with similar devices from other manufactuers. 

There already were a couple of devices with Touchscreen, that you might want to call smartphone. But most of those were with M$ Windows CE 6.4 or something like that.

 

Just look at those:

https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2000&nYearMax=2006&idTouchscreen=1

[Arika]

3 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

No, that's wrong.

Everything was already available from other manufacturers.

 

All that Apple did was to market their Phone to the Enduser and not the Business Man as it was the case with similar devices from other manufactuers. 

There already were a couple of devices with Touchscreen, that you might want to call smartphone. But most of those were with M$ Windows CE 6.4 or something like that.

 

Just look at those:

https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2000&nYearMax=2006&idTouchscreen=1

which is covered under the

Quote

(which in some cases might just be finding a new design and successfully marketing it)

you said i was wrong and then proceeded to confirm what i was saying...

[spellmanuk]

I too am a big tesla/space x/boring company fan but yeah elon went to far. Honestly i think hes near to breaking at one point he needs to go and take a long hard break till september. Ive had it before with work the fact he got involved with this confused me reguardless if its for PR or not he has enough on his plate with model 3 production at the moment.

 

Idk if anyone watched Ben Sullins/Teslanomics on youtube? But i think he said it best in his live stream yestersay. He employes all these high tear smart people they can look after themselves and his companies for a few weeks/months and he needs to go take a holiday reset refresh no twitter for a few weeks either let the socail media team you employ deal with that.

[Master Disaster]

36 minutes ago, TechGod said:

But they did fucking invent the modern smartphone. You people are beyond logic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ericsson_R380

 

Nope they didn't, not even close. It's pretty important you understand the definition of the word "invent".

[Master Disaster]

13 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Snip

Oh I'm deadly serious, remember Musk isn't suggesting anything, he's making a living based on other people's ideas and yes, I do believe if you're going to iterate an already existing, little known and ultimately failed project then you should be very clear to everyone that it wasn't your idea.

 

I have no issue with him taking credit for his own ideas but at this point he's riding the waves of inventions he had nothing to do with. When you say his name you think of 4 things, PayPal, Tesla, SpaceX/landing rocket boosters and the Hyperloop.

 

Now I'm certainly not going to argue that he hasn't accomplished anything, that would be absurd but literally half of the things he is famous for "inventing" he didn't come up with at all.

 

Shrewd business man? Absolutely. Genius inventor? Absolutely not. He is like the modern day Thomas Edison.

 

Also can I just say that I didn't say making things popular and accessible aren't important achievements, obviously they are, I just think it's important to be fair and tell people you didn't invent the thing you're famous for.

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, TechGod said:

But they did fucking invent the modern smartphone. You people are beyond logic.

I'm surprised you're still allowed on here, VS.

No, Apple did not "invent" the "modern smartphone". They popularized it, and introduced some of the things which are now standard in smartphones.

There were plenty of similar looking smartphones with similar functionality before the iPhone came out.

 

 

 

50 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Musk isn't suggesting anything, he's making a living based on other people's ideas

Literally every single person on planet earth does that. Every single one is 100% dependent on inventions/ideas made by other people, all the time.

50 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

I do believe if you're going to iterate an already existing, little known and ultimately failed project then you should be very clear to everyone that it wasn't your idea.

That is crazy. So if you make a car, you want the car manufacturer to make a public statement, listing maybe 5000 different things that they did not invent but are still used in the car?

Why? For what purpose? What is the end goal with that extremely impractical idea?

50 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Now I'm certainly not going to argue that he hasn't accomplished anything, that would be absurd but literally half of the things he is famous for "inventing" he didn't come up with at all.

Who said he is famous for "inventing" these things?

50 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Also can I just say that I didn't say making things popular and accessible aren't important achievements, obviously they are, I just think it's important to be fair and tell people you didn't invent the thing you're famous for.

You kind of did when you called him "a fucking joke" who "steals ideas from other people, renames them and claims them as his own", as well as a "snakes oil salesman crossed with a spin doctor" who "sells dumb ideas to dumb people".

 

Take a good, long and hard look at your own posts and realize that you might have gone a bit too far in your hatred for Elon here. I mean, every post since that one seems to be you backpedaling going "OK, I'll give him that one" over and over, and now you've backed yourself into this ridiculous situation where you have to justify demanding lists which are thousands upon thousands of bullet points long whenever even the tiniest thing gets released.

"Here is Tesla's new car! But before that, we need to make it very clear that we did not invent the concept of a wheel here, that was invented by someone else. Also, we did not invent the glass nor the glassmaking process used when making the headlights. We didn't invent the steering-wheel either, just to make that perfectly clear...."

 

It seems like you're the only one in this thread who cares about who came up with something first, and the idea that people should publicly declare whenever they use something or a concept that someone else came up with first, and anyone who doesn't do that should be ridiculed.

[TechGod]

9 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I'm surprised you're still allowed on here, VS.

 

Pray tell, what exactly have I done that is ban worthy? Disagree that Apple isn't a steaming pile of shit like what most of this forum thinks of them?

[Master Disaster]

15 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I'm surprised you're still allowed on here, VS.

No, Apple did not "invent" the "modern smartphone". They popularized it, and introduced some of the things which are now standard in smartphones.

There were plenty of similar looking smartphones with similar functionality before the iPhone came out.

 

 

 

Literally every single person on planet earth does that. Every single one is 100% dependent on inventions/ideas made by other people, all the time.

That is crazy. So if you make a car, you want the car manufacturer to make a public statement, listing maybe 5000 different things that they did not invent but are still used in the car?

Why? For what purpose? What is the end goal with that extremely impractical idea?

Who said he is famous for "inventing" these things?

You kind of did when you called him "a fucking joke" who "steals ideas from other people, renames them and claims them as his own", as well as a "snakes oil salesman crossed with a spin doctor" who "sells dumb ideas to dumb people".

 

Take a good, long and hard look at your own posts and realize that you might have gone a bit too far in your hatred for Elon here. I mean, every post since that one seems to be you backpedaling going "OK, I'll give him that one" over and over, and now you've backed yourself into this ridiculous situation where you have to justify demanding lists which are thousands upon thousands of bullet points long whenever even the tiniest thing gets released.

"Here is Tesla's new car! But before that, we need to make it very clear that we did not invent the concept of a wheel here, that was invented by someone else. Also, we did not invent the glass nor the glassmaking process used when making the headlights. We didn't invent the steering-wheel either, just to make that perfectly clear...."

 

It seems like you're the only one in this thread who cares about who came up with something first, and the idea that people should publicly declare whenever they use something or a concept that someone else came up with first, and anyone who doesn't do that should be ridiculed.

Nice Ad Absurdum argument.

 

It's funny how you differentiate between make and invent in your own post yet your argument is based on the premise that these 2 things are the same.

 

It's very simple, Musk is famous for INVENTING the Hyperloop and the reusable rocket booster, not just for making them. He's very happy to keep quiet about the fact he didn't invent either of these things and allow people to continue believing a lie.

 

Last time I checked car manufacturers don't claim to have invented the 5000 different things they use while manufacturing their vehicles.

 

This isn't about what he makes, not at all, this is about him being famous for inventing things that he had nothing to do with.

 

[mr moose]

3 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Last time I checked car manufacturers don't claim to have invented the 5000 different things they use while manufacturing their vehicles.

 

No, but mercedes does keep banging on about inventing the car.  That little misconstruction annoys me. 

[Drak3]

2 hours ago, TechGod said:

But they did fucking invent the modern smartphone.

How high are you?

 

The only thing Apple did was market their phone to general consumers.

[vorticalbox]

22 hours ago, mynameisjuan said:

So we can sue people after calling them names?

Name calling is not the same as suggesting some commited a crime.

 

Calling someone a dick is not the same as calling some a murderer.

[LAwLz]

34 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

It's funny how you differentiate between make and invent in your own post yet your argument is based on the premise that these 2 things are the same.

No I am not making arguments based on the two things being the same.

What I have said over and over is that whoever came up with something first is kind of irrelevant and should not be the be all and end all in deciding if someone is a "fucking joke" or not.

 

35 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

It's very simple, Musk is famous for INVENTING the Hyperloop and the reusable rocket booster, not just for making them.

According to who? You?

The first thing that appears when you Google "Elon Musk" is:

Quote

Elon Reeve Musk FRS is a business magnate, investor and engineer. He is the founder, CEO, and lead designer of SpaceX; co-founder, CEO, and product architect of Tesla, Inc.; and co-founder and CEO of Neuralink.

Nothing about inventing the hyperloop or reusable rocket boosters.

 

37 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Last time I checked car manufacturers don't claim to have invented the 5000 different things they use while manufacturing their vehicles.

But you said that you want companies to state which things they did not invent, remember?

1 hour ago, Master Disaster said:

I do believe if you're going to iterate an already existing, little known and ultimately failed project then you should be very clear to everyone that it wasn't your idea.

You still haven't answered me what practical benefit such a ridiculous standard would have.

There are probably more than 5000 different inventions going into each car, and according to you it is very important to clearly state which things you did not invent.

 

43 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

This isn't about what he makes, not at all, this is about him being famous for inventing things that he had nothing to do with.

You're the only one here saying he is famous because of a misconception that he has invented the things he is famous for.

Also, your original post made far more claims that him just being famous for the wrong reason. You called him a fucking joke, snakeoil salesman who steals ideas and sell dumb ideas to dumb people. If you keep backpedaling like this you might soon have a reasonable position regarding Elon.

[WolfDeville]

I used to respect Elon, but he can go suck a fat one.

[ItsMitch]

Is anyone shocked he pissed off his investors..... fucking idiot. 

[Guest]

He has every right to be mad. He flew all the way out there with his device only to be mocked? Both sides are immature. An appropriate response from the diver team would be to say his device would not be appropriate at this time due to the current plans they have. Vernon and Musk need to stop pretending to be heroes and keep it real. The submarine was a good idea for a difficult situation. 

[maartendc]

I mean, if you saw a video of the actual "submarine" propotype... the name submarine is a bit generous:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/news/video/2018/jul/09/elon-musk-tweets-video-of-kid-sized-submarine-for-use-in-thai-cave

 

Seems it was more like a little tube with air canisters attached to it, that divers would have had to push forward through the cave. Seems impractical, and the fact that you could just give these trapped kids diving equipment seems way more logical.

 

Also, who asked for his help in the first place? Elon Musk must have an ego the size of the moon to think only he could come up with a solution to save the kids, and then be upset when they got saved some other way. What a complete maniac.

[mr moose]

1 hour ago, maartendc said:

I mean, if you saw a video of the actual "submarine" propotype... the name submarine is a bit generous:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/news/video/2018/jul/09/elon-musk-tweets-video-of-kid-sized-submarine-for-use-in-thai-cave

 

Seems it was more like a little tube with air canisters attached to it, that divers would have had to push forward through the cave. Seems impractical, and the fact that you could just give these trapped kids diving equipment seems way more logical.

 

Also, who asked for his help in the first place? Elon Musk must have an ego the size of the moon to think only he could come up with a solution to save the kids, and then be upset when they got saved some other way. What a complete maniac.

As far as we know Elon was asked by the rescuers for help, so he did, then everything went down hill from there.  It sounds very much like this English diver just had a personal gripe with musk and turned it into a shit fight that elon seems to have lost.

[Master Disaster]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-44870303

[yian88]

The one thing EM is guilty of is "overextending", he should stop trying to play the PR stuns he does, with australia power, central america power after hurricane, the thai bois and so on.

He wants to keep his momentum started with spacex/tesla and keeps making these adventures playing "the god of technology and the saviour", eventually it will backfire, one stunt at a time his rep will go down not up.

He needs to focus on those goddamn Tesla trucks to meet demand and goals, and BFR wont happen if hes busy 24/7 sleeping in a factory and trying to play hero in thailand, i think the world can take care of itself, if EM has some technology that only he owns and only he can help then he should intervene otherwise stay aside and mind your business.