MSI's Facebook representative throws shade at AMD graphics cards [Update]

[leadeater]

40 minutes ago, asus killer said:

isn't what he said true? aren't Nvidia cards better in general, even in the Polaris range, if you ask 480 vs 1060 people will go "buy the 1060 similar performance less power consumption", is it a lie?

I guess people are jumping on the MSI guy because he said what everyone knows it's true. 

Well depends a bit on what games you actually play, I don't keep up with current benchmarks of those two cards much but I know they are very close. To me power is irrelevant, no one truly cares about that beyond brand bias arguing. Power draw does relate to heat but if you're buying AIB custom coolers both cards are equal in noise and GPU temps, AMD/ATI just have horrific stock coolers that really hurts their brand a lot.

 

Personally I set a performance target, look at the list of games I play the most, compare performance then cross reference price. Which ever card works out to be the best value I buy with a tolerance of paying a slight bit more for extra performance but not too much more. This is why I've owned many cards from both and recommended a wide range to different people when asked, I will always recommend the best buy no matter how much I might not like a company because protest purchases have zero effect and only hurt the customer.

 

I don't really see how anyone can say Nvidia cards are better in general when you can for example buy a Strix version of both which are equal in build quality and use the exact same power delivery components. Nvidia has offerings that go above what AMD can deliver performance wise and you should always buy those if that is what you are after, you have no choice.

[asus killer]

9 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Well depends a bit on what games you actually play, I don't keep up with current benchmarks of those two cards much but I know they are very close. To me power is irrelevant, no one truly cares about that beyond brand bias arguing. Power draw does relate to heat but if you're buying AIB custom coolers both cards are equal in noise and GPU temps, AMD/ATI just have horrific stock coolers that really hurts their brand a lot.

 

Personally I set a performance target, look at the list of games I play the most, compare performance then cross reference price. Which ever card works out to be the best value I buy with a tolerance of paying a slight bit more for extra performance but not too much more. This is why I've owned many cards from both and recommended a wide range to different people when asked, I will always recommend the best buy no matter how much I might not like a company because protest purchases have zero effect and only hurt the customer.

 

I don't really see how anyone can say Nvidia cards are better in general when you can for example buy a Strix version of both which are equal in build quality and use the exact same power delivery components. Nvidia has offerings that go above what AMD can deliver performance wise and you should always buy those if that is what you are after, you have no choice.

maybe in a perfect world your arguments would be accurate. But in general what i said holds true. You can't know what card and drivers will perform better in unreleased games, you have to do generalizations and it's more likely that Nvidia throws their many at the guys that make the hip new game like PUBG so it runs better on green cards, and power is a factor, generates more heat in a equal strix version, could be important for a shitty case with low air performance.

In general for even for equal performance Nvidia is a better choice.

I guess in the end that's why Nvidia has a lion share of the market. There's people who will always buy AMD no matter what, does that buy Nvidia no matter what, and the rest. The rest buys Nvidia for the most part, a large part. I know that, Nvidia knows that, the MSI guy knows that, hell even AMD knows it. You can tell me it's just marketing, i respect but i disagree.

 

I even favor AMD myself, i really hate some of Nvidia (GPP is abusing it's power even if i think it's mostly stupid and benign) and Intel decisions (8tg gen not on 6th and 7th mobos for me is BS), but i try to see things as they are.

[mr moose]

30 minutes ago, leadeater said:

I don't really see how anyone can say Nvidia cards are better in general

Most people only go off the benchmarks. They tend to forget that not every 1060 is the same model and  not every 580 is overclocked etc.  But at the end of the day if you look at the results from 4 different sites (anand, toms, GN, and TT or whoever) and one sits just on top on average then it's going to be generally considered the better chip.

 

For me personally I consider anything under 5fps to be either margin of error or even just unnoticeable to the end user so not worth worrying about (which is why I current have a 380).  However everyone else does, and I guess when you work hard for your money you want to get the absolute best you can, especially with prices being up like they are.

 

 

[leadeater]

43 minutes ago, asus killer said:

You can't know what card and drivers will perform better in unreleased games, you have to do generalizations and it's more likely that Nvidia throws their many at the guys that make the hip new game like PUBG so it runs better on green cards

I don't really factor in unreleased games, I look at what I have already and what I want to buy more than anything else. For the most part the next game in the series has the same GPU preference as well i.e. Total War series. For the most part those games have always run better on AMD until Total War: Warhammer which runs better on Nvidia now.

 

43 minutes ago, asus killer said:

There's people who will always buy AMD no matter what, does that buy Nvidia no matter what, and the rest. The rest buys Nvidia for the most part, a large part. I know that, Nvidia knows that, the MSI guy knows that, hell even AMD knows it. You can tell me it's just marketing, i respect but i disagree.

I'm not actually arguing against that, just saying that Nvidia cards are not in general better. And I do put a lot of stock in to Nvidia having cards like the Titan's and 1080 Ti's leading to stronger sales of all of their cards, they market those high end cards well and sponsor high profile builds and put their name out there very strongly.

 

The other factor where power actually does matter is in laptops, every actually good gaming laptop has an Nvidia GPU in it and rightly so. Laptops sell in far greater numbers than desktops and those having Nvidia GPUs in them leads to more desktop GPU sales.

 

There are a lot of reasons why Nvidia has such a large market share but it's not completely down to performance.

 

I sit in a room full of 30 ish IT professionals and only 3 of them would even look at AMD products if they were buying a graphics card, everyone else goes to the Nvidia section of the local website and buys the Nvidia card in their price range and AMD doesn't even get a look in. The reason why is what I outlined above, Nvidia has built huge market appeal which actually does prevent buyers from considering AMD at all.

[XenosTech]

5 hours ago, Drak3 said:

Asides for overclocking my 1070, I haven't had issues with either Pascal card.

 

Then again, I also refuse to update my Nvidia drivers. No point in fixing what ain't broken.

Mine wasn't even overclocked (technically) I had an adjusted boost curve but same base clocks. At one point I did stop updating the drivers because it started to impact my games and cause random artifacting. Then there's that issue where it bugs out for all games and then fixes it self later or never

[asus killer]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

I sit in a room full of 30 ish IT professionals and only 3 of them would even look at AMD products if they were buying a graphics card, everyone else goes to the Nvidia section of the local website and buys the Nvidia card in their price range and AMD doesn't even get a look in. The reason why is what I outlined above, Nvidia has built huge market appeal which actually does prevent buyers from considering AMD at all.

Lots of locals small stores around me only carry nvidia graphics cards boxes exposed, they don't even care to have amd boxes for show. And these are the professionals, things get a lot worst on consumers. More than the graphic cards those shitty cpus were a big cause for this in my opinion.

 

On laptops i must agree a intel and nvidia logo are almost a quality mark for most.

 

Still i mostly blame AMD for this.

[Humbug]

Pretty shocking to see even on this forum there are still a few people who think that Nvidia cards are better in general.

 

Rather than comparing individual product Vs product.

 

Try telling anybody who got an rx 580 thay they would be better off with a gtx 1060... Especially now that AMD driver quality has arguably surpassed Nvidia.

 

The more accurate statement is 'Nvidia is winning the GPU wars' or 'Nvidia is unchallenged in the top end segment'.

[Mihle]

AMD drivers is really good now.

 

Also, those brands that stop selling AMD will not get money from me. No matter what gpu I actually end up buying next.

[sof006]

5 hours ago, mr moose said:

How so?  doesn't the nature of business mean that you take the course of action that provides the best products and consequently the best returns?

Because they provide graphics cards for both brands. The fact is that they're siding with Nvidia more because of (what I imagine) this new thing Nvidia has introduced. 

[asus killer]

30 minutes ago, Humbug said:

Pretty shocking to see even on this forum there are still a few people who think that Nvidia cards are better in general.

 

Rather than comparing individual product Vs product.

 

Try telling anybody who got an rx 580 thay they would be better off with a gtx 1060... Especially now that AMD driver quality has arguably surpassed Nvidia.

 

The more accurate statement is 'Nvidia is winning the GPU wars' or 'Nvidia is unchallenged in the top end segment'.

So you don't agree with the "in general" and give a particular example. 

[Blademaster91]

30 minutes ago, Humbug said:

Pretty shocking to see even on this forum there are still a few people who think that Nvidia cards are better in general.

 

Rather than comparing individual product Vs product.

 

Try telling anybody who got an rx 580 thay they would be better off with a gtx 1060... Especially now that AMD driver quality has arguably surpassed Nvidia.

 

The more accurate statement is 'Nvidia is winning the GPU wars' or 'Nvidia is unchallenged in the top end segment'.

Yet you're comparing 2 graphics cards? Driver quality is mostly the same, they both put out the occasional driver that doesn't play nice with a few games.

However the thing people like to gloss right over here is that Nvidia has more efficient cards even in the budget segment.

[Humbug]

14 minutes ago, asus killer said:

So you don't agree with the "in general" and give a particular example. 

Yes. The 'in general' attempts at oversimplification don't help.

 

The particulars are what's important. E.g. given equivalent pricing I would recommend somebody to buy a gtx 1080 over a vega64. Because it's a better product. I.e. same stock performance, better performance when overclocked, less power consumed.

[NumLock21]

#BetterBlue 

Intel iGPU FTW!

[Drak3]

1 hour ago, Blademaster91 said:

However the thing people like to gloss right over here is that Nvidia has more efficient cards even in the budget segment.

Nvidia cards are only more efficient when it comes to gaming. GPGPU, AMD cards are extremely competitive.

 

Not that it matters to most gamers, outside of VEGA64. Polaris and older, the delta amounts to neglible payback, most people are going to replace their cards before ROI pays off on that efficiency. Vega56 can be undervolted easily if ypu have a reference card, and it seems that every worth while OEM is doing that with AIB cards.

[Sauron]

14 hours ago, Ginger_ said:

High end they might be nonexistent but not sub par

If you don't consider the 1080 to be high end that is  the only card that is out of amd's reach is the 1080ti and I don't think the 1080ti has a particularly high marketshare.

[Sauron]

5 hours ago, asus killer said:

it's not his fault it's a duopoly or Nvidia has so much power in the market.

It may not be his personal fault but nVidia has been riding on anti-competitive practices for decades and OEMs like MSI are the ones that let them get away with it. The GPP wouldn't be a concern to begin with if OEMs chose to ignore it...

3 hours ago, asus killer said:

Lots of locals small stores around me only carry nvidia graphics cards boxes exposed, they don't even care to have amd boxes for show. And these are the professionals, things get a lot worst on consumers. More than the graphic cards those shitty cpus were a big cause for this in my opinion.

 

On laptops i must agree a intel and nvidia logo are almost a quality mark for most.

 

Still i mostly blame AMD for this.

In case you're unaware, Intel has been sued and found guilty of paying OEMs to keep AMD out of their high end products. Still blame AMD?

[DrMacintosh]

8 hours ago, mr moose said:

Which means if they want to sell as many cards as they can they need to concentrate their efforts on Nvida,  GPP or not.

Not really.

 

AMD also makes CPUs which tbh is where they are doing really well in. There is a reason the two divisions are legally separated. AMD is concentrating on making money and turning a profit. They are doing that in spite of Nvidias “better options.” 

 

Reguardless, of it was the right thing to say they would not have deleted and retracted the statements. 

[Blademaster91]

21 minutes ago, Sauron said:

If you don't consider the 1080 to be high end that is  the only card that is out of amd's reach is the 1080ti and I don't think the 1080ti has a particularly high marketshare.

And both competitive cards are way overpriced and out of the reach for gamers compared to Nvidia's offerings even with inflated prices.

25 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Nvidia cards are only more efficient when it comes to gaming. GPGPU, AMD cards are extremely competitive.

 

Not that it matters to most gamers, outside of VEGA64. Polaris and older, the delta amounts to neglible payback, most people are going to replace their cards before ROI pays off on that efficiency. Vega56 can be undervolted easily if ypu have a reference card, and it seems that every worth while OEM is doing that with AIB cards.

I meant for gaming though,and comparatively without modifying the card by undervolting. AMD is relying too heavily on the mining craze, Vega is hotter,more power hungry and slower than Nvidia's mid and high end cards for gaming.

[Drak3]

2 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

meant for gaming though,and comparatively without modifying the card by undervolting. AMD is relying too heavily on the mining craze

I wouldn't say that.

OEMs modify cards already.

AMD is capitalizing on the mining craze, but I have no doubt they've got plans if it died down to nothing tomorrow.

[Blademaster91]

38 minutes ago, Sauron said:

It may not be his personal fault but nVidia has been riding on anti-competitive practices for decades and OEMs like MSI are the ones that let them get away with it. The GPP wouldn't be a concern to begin with if OEMs chose to ignore it...

In case you're unaware, Intel has been sued and found guilty of paying OEMs to keep AMD out of their high end products. Still blame AMD?

The Intel lawsuit was over a decade ago,which hardly has anything to do with the gpu division either, other than AMD purchasing ATi for $5.4 billion that in turn hurt their own R&D for making cpu's.

At this point it is AMD's fault with poor marketing and choosing not to compete on the high end while riding the crypto hype train instead for a quick temporary gain. Edit-  The shocking thing here is how seriously people take a stupid twitter comment that doesn't represent MSI as a whole. Nvidia has generally better products,and when they sell significantly more of course they would want those gaming sub-brands, it really isn't anti-competitive when AMD still has the same cards as before,and their own exclusive AIBs and gaming brands.

 

 

[Ginger_]

36 minutes ago, Sauron said:

If you don't consider the 1080 to be high end that is  the only card that is out of amd's reach is the 1080ti and I don't think the 1080ti has a particularly high marketshare.

I think I would compare both Vegas to a 1070. Some games they perform on a 80 level but not consistently. Even still you're correct the amount of people using an 80/ti is tiny in the whole pc gaming community

[SpencerC]

13 minutes ago, Ginger_ said:

I think I would compare both Vegas to a 1070. Some games they perform on a 80 level but not consistently. Even still you're correct the amount of people using an 80/ti is tiny in the whole pc gaming community

Ehh, Vega 56 beats the 1070 by a decent margin (10-15%). If you tweak it correctly, Vega 56 can hit within 5% of a stock 1080. Remember why the 1070Ti exists?

[Sauron]

25 minutes ago, Ginger_ said:

I think I would compare both Vegas to a 1070. Some games they perform on a 80 level but not consistently.

Regardless it's more about the price than about whether or not the performance is comparable. Of course right now the prices are inflated so it's hard to make a fair comparison.

[asus killer]

2 hours ago, Humbug said:

Yes. The 'in general' attempts at oversimplification don't help.

 

The particulars are what's important. E.g. given equivalent pricing I would recommend somebody to buy a gtx 1080 over a vega64. Because it's a better product. I.e. same stock performance, better performance when overclocked, less power consumed.

we can obviously discuss case by case, but again i said in general so i'm completely lost in your arguments. 

[asus killer]

1 hour ago, Sauron said:

In case you're unaware, Intel has been sued and found guilty of paying OEMs to keep AMD out of their high end products. Still blame AMD?

i had no idea. Nvidia is a shitty company.

Still what i meant is AMD gave this power to Nvidia by making sub par products like the guy from MSI said. OEM's and AIB's and whatever are all in a tight spot because consumers prefer Nvidia, and they have the lion share of the market. And when that happens abuses like those are almost inevitable.