Is anyone waiting for Coffee Lake?

[MageTank]

47 minutes ago, MyName13 said:

New process doesn't increase IPC, it's the architecture optimisation that changes IPC, new process can increase clock rate (or instructions per second, not per clock).

My mistake. I do have a bad habit of confusing the two. Partly why I dislike discussing IPC in the first place, as it's not as static as people seem to believe it to be, lol. 

[HorrorCosmic]

I'm still on a 4770K OC and dual GTX 980's OC. not even Ti's. 

 

I WAS planning on waiting for Cannon Lake because i wanted to see how intel would react towards AMD given enough time, and the 10 nanometer shrink is very appealing. Usually when there's a die shrink involved you get a nice performance boost as well.

 

But i don't think I can wait till 2018, not even early 2018 it would be around mid year before I see decent motherboards, decent mini ITX motherboards, a new stepping... AND by then i'll have to wait for a new GPU because i'm not going to wait for a cannon lake and use a 1+ year GPU (since nvidia has stated no current plans for volta gpu so probably mid-late 2018)

 

My concern is this, Coffee Lake is still LGA 1151, does this mean that existing coolers and water blocks will still fit? because it does state that it will require a new chipset / mobo, will intel use the same socket layout or change it slightly as well? And I mean the slightest changes to differentiate between z170 / z270 boards and the new one. Something stupid like... make the socket more squared than rectangular... or diamond shape (don't put it passed them). maybe change the spacing of the mounting points...

 

The i7-8700k looks appealing though, i would definitely jump on that for a new gaming system I am not really happy seeing that 95W power.... it's not bad... just means more heat especially during OC.

[ARikozuM]

31 minutes ago, HorrorCosmic said:

My concern is this, Coffee Lake is still LGA 1151, does this mean that existing coolers and water blocks will still fit?

Intel hasn't changed the mounting points for LGA115X since the inception, so they should be compatible going forward. 

31 minutes ago, HorrorCosmic said:

The i7-8700k looks appealing though, i would definitely jump on that for a new gaming system I am not really happy seeing that 95W power.... it's not bad... just means more heat especially during OC.

Most K-series have been 95W parts (even the 7350K is a 95W part if I'm not mistaken). Making the TDP higher or lower doesn't change anything since TDP only serves to show what thermal solutions they expect the CPU to require. The Ryzen CPU's, I believe, are 65W parts until overclocked and then you have something else to contend with. The Intel part will usually do the same. 

TL;DR Forget about TDP and get a cooler that fits the job. 

[kirashi]

12 hours ago, Nationalist said:

That's a massive difference in default clock speeds; likely everyone will OC the 8700k to a 4.2GHz minimum, something which is considered a lucky maximum for Ryzen 1700.

It will all come down to pricing and thermals.

 

The release of Coffee Lake will be next week.

Happy with my current i7-4790K and not planning to upgrade anytime soon or holding out for new CPUs until 1 of 2 things happen:

• Single-core processing speeds surpass the stagnant 4.x GHz limit we've been faced with because of heat
• Developers implement proper support for multi-threading all processes where possible/where it makes sense
  • Alternatively, CPU and OS developers could implement a built-in hypervisor that allows manual selection of CPU cores for certain tasks, similar to how you can designate core affinity in Task Manager, but something that adapts to each users' needs based on smart learning algorithms

Until either of these things happen, there's literally no point in upgrading beyond 3rd or 4th gen unlocked Intel i7 CPU's unless you need extra PCI lanes or wish to support the artificial atrocity that is Netflix's 4K DRM lockout.

[He_162]

12 hours ago, MageTank said:

For people that already own Skylake/Kaby, it's not really worth upgrading. IPC will be identical, and if you are doing something that needs more cores, you are likely better off upgrading to X299 so you get additional PCIe lanes and memory bandwidth while you are at it. 

 

As for how high the 8700k overclocks, a delidded 8700k should have no problem hitting 5ghz according to people that I've spoken to, so basically imagine a 7700k with 2 additional cores with identical IPC.

 

It's great for those with an older platform like Haswell or Sandy/Ivy that are looking to get into a new platform, but it's benefits will certainly be less pronounced coming from Skylake/Kaby. 

 

The thing that interests me the most, is the IMC. Intel is claiming it's improved over Kaby, which already improved upon Skylake's. If that is the case, we might see dual rank DDR4 4000 become a thing. 

Actually no, Coffee Lake was confirmed at 10nm, so it will have a 7 - 8% increase in IPC over kaby lake, putting it more than 20% ahead of Ryzen, and further in clock speeds and overall performance.

It's not an i7-7700k with two more cores, it's a i7-8700k with 6 cores, and 7% higher IPC, and 51% better overall performance (when compared at stock clocks, so it has lower clocks while still achieving 51% improvement).

The IMC was improved on the 10nm process, yes.

[He_162]

23 minutes ago, kirashi said:

Happy with my current i7-4790K and not planning to upgrade anytime soon or holding out for new CPUs until 1 of 2 things happen:

• Single-core processing speeds surpass the stagnant 4.x GHz limit we've been faced with because of heat
• Developers implement proper support for multi-threading all processes where possible/where it makes sense
  • Alternatively, CPU and OS developers could implement a built-in hypervisor that allows manual selection of CPU cores for certain tasks, similar to how you can designate core affinity in Task Manager, but something that adapts to each users' needs based on smart learning algorithms

Until either of these things happen, there's literally no point in upgrading beyond 3rd or 4th gen unlocked Intel i7 CPU's unless you need extra PCI lanes or wish to support the artificial atrocity that is Netflix's 4K DRM lockout.

Coffee Lake offers almost a 20% increase in IPC over Haswell, and 5ghz on a 6 core, with DDR4-3600 in dual ranks.
Developers have been doing that, you're using older software.

Reasons to get coffee lake:
-Play any game without a CPU bottleneck

-DDR4

-Brand new

-PCIE lanes

-Not bottlenecking future GPU's

-Good luck playing Arma 3, or any similar game on haswell.
-Cut video rendering and developer tasks time in almost half.

I could go on but I think that's more than enough for a 400$ upgrade. (500$ for a decent ram kit and cooler) with the best i7.

[MyName13]

4 minutes ago, He_162 said:

Actually no, Coffee Lake was confirmed at 10nm, so it will have a 7 - 8% increase in IPC over kaby lake, putting it more than 20% ahead of Ryzen, and further in clock speeds and overall performance.

It's not an i7-7700k with two more cores, it's a i7-8700k with 6 cores, and 7% higher IPC, and 51% better overall performance (when compared at stock clocks, so it has lower clocks while still achieving 51% improvement).

The IMC was improved on the 10nm process, yes.

Coffee lake uses 14++ nm process, cannonlake and ice lake will use 10 nm process.

[kirashi]

4 minutes ago, He_162 said:

Coffee Lake offers almost a 20% increase in IPC over Haswell, and 5ghz on a 6 core, with DDR4-3600 in dual ranks.
Developers have been doing that, you're using older software.

Reasons to get coffee lake:
-Play any game without a CPU bottleneck

-DDR4

-Brand new

-PCIE lanes

-Not bottlenecking future GPU's

-Good luck playing Arma 3, or any similar game on haswell.
-Cut video rendering and developer tasks time in almost half.

I could go on but I think that's more than enough for a 400$ upgrade. (500$ for a decent ram kit and cooler) with the best i7.

Definitely all good reasons to upgrade, if you need those benefits. Personally, I'm such a casual gamer that I opted for a GTX950 last boxing day because 1) it was and still is good enough for my needs, and 2) it wasn't priced retardedly high. The only benefit that I personally would see might be in video rendering, but I don't do that often enough to care.

 

But again, if your needs tick all the boxes in your list of improvements, then it's absolutely worth considering the upgrade for sure.  

[He_162]

51 minutes ago, MyName13 said:

Coffee lake uses 14++ nm process, cannonlake and ice lake will use 10 nm process.

We'll see on release, from what I understand, Coffee Lake and cannonlake are essentially now the same thing, and both will use a 10nm manufacturing process. (Recent news I guess)

[SlaughterSmurf]

Yes I'm waiting for Coffee Lake because I play games. Coffee Lake i7 will be the ideal setup: high IPC, high clockspeeds, and medium core count. I doubt games in the next 5 years will suffer too badly with a 6 core 12 thread CPU. Since I don't stream the IPC and Clockspeed is king for me. However I will OF COURSE read reviews. If it turns out to be shit then I won't buy it and I'll settle with a Ryzen 5 or 7. 

[PhaseShift]

6 hours ago, He_162 said:

We'll see on release, from what I understand, Coffee Lake and cannonlake are essentially now the same thing, and both will use a 10nm manufacturing process. (Recent news I guess)

Coffee lake has been confirmed by intel to be on the 14++ nm proccess for quite some time now.

[Drak3]

7 hours ago, He_162 said:

Actually no, Coffee Lake was confirmed at 10nm, so it will have a 7 - 8% increase in IPC over kaby lake, putting it more than 20% ahead of Ryzen, and further in clock speeds and overall performance.

It's not an i7-7700k with two more cores, it's a i7-8700k with 6 cores, and 7% higher IPC, and 51% better overall performance (when compared at stock clocks, so it has lower clocks while still achieving 51% improvement).

The IMC was improved on the 10nm process, yes.

Coffee was confirmed 14nm++, and the typical IPC increase from die shrinks is 1-3%.

The performance numbers Intel gives are in regards to maximized spec that is officially supported. 2400MHz RAM vs 2666. Turbo is not disabled. More cache with the 8700K.

[themctipers]

i am. give me my 15w quad core! 

[MadOverclocker]

Im waiting for intel only for seeing the low power cpus (like the G4560 was), if they meet my expectations maybe i will change to lga 1151. But I think thats not gonna happen so still i am sticking to Ryzen 3 since I have a very low damn budget

[MageTank]

11 hours ago, He_162 said:

Actually no, Coffee Lake was confirmed at 10nm, so it will have a 7 - 8% increase in IPC over kaby lake, putting it more than 20% ahead of Ryzen, and further in clock speeds and overall performance.

It's not an i7-7700k with two more cores, it's a i7-8700k with 6 cores, and 7% higher IPC, and 51% better overall performance (when compared at stock clocks, so it has lower clocks while still achieving 51% improvement).

The IMC was improved on the 10nm process, yes.

No, it was not confirmed for 10nm. It's 14nm. Where in the world are you getting your wrong information? Also, your numbers are coming out of thin air. Where is this 7% IPC and 51% "overall performance" even coming from?

[HorrorCosmic]

12 hours ago, ARikozuM said:

Intel hasn't changed the mounting points for LGA115X since the inception, so they should be compatible going forward. 

Most K-series have been 95W parts (even the 7350K is a 95W part if I'm not mistaken). Making the TDP higher or lower doesn't change anything since TDP only serves to show what thermal solutions they expect the CPU to require. The Ryzen CPU's, I believe, are 65W parts until overclocked and then you have something else to contend with. The Intel part will usually do the same. 

TL;DR Forget about TDP and get a cooler that fits the job. 

Most unlocked K processors have been 91 watts. It's not a huge difference but whenever you building a mini itx with a low profile cooler you need every advantage possible. Even now I think the cryorig c7 is the only low profile cooler that's rated to support 100 watt tdp which is exactly why I can't just over look the tdp. I have to be mindful of that number to avoid any kind of thermal issues.

[TahoeDust]

It is amazing how many people on this forum state incorrect information with such certainty.

[He_162]

7 hours ago, PhaseShift said:

Coffee lake has been confirmed by intel to be on the 14++ nm proccess for quite some time now.

I think that they'll change that plan.

 

7 hours ago, Drak3 said:

Coffee was confirmed 14nm++, and the typical IPC increase from die shrinks is 1-3%.

The performance numbers Intel gives are in regards to maximized spec that is officially supported. 2400MHz RAM vs 2666. Turbo is not disabled. More cache with the 8700K.

They have already got 10nm to be 2.7x as dense as 14nm, so it's definitely gonna be higher than 1 - 3%.

That was their cash grab standard before this though.

 

3 hours ago, MageTank said:

No, it was not confirmed for 10nm. It's 14nm. Where in the world are you getting your wrong information? Also, your numbers are coming out of thin air. Where is this 7% IPC and 51% "overall performance" even coming from?

A quick google search of "Coffee Lake" and you'll have your answer, it's relatively easy to use it, no one does. Sad.

 

1 hour ago, TahoeDust said:

It is amazing how many people on this forum state incorrect information with such certainty.

When you don't know anything for sure about a processor and are trying to make a conversation when everyone knows nothing but rumors, that happens often. It's not amazing, it's expected, what was amazing is that you stopped by only to indirectly insult those people, shouldn't you be correcting them if that's the issue?

[Damascus]

On 8/19/2017 at 3:02 PM, JDE said:

base clock

Is meaningless when clocks will inevitably run on full boost in single threaded tasks.

[DarkSmith2]

EU-Prices are leaked

https://www.computerbase.de/2017-08/intel-coffee-lake-preis-verfuegbarkeit/

 

for 8700k:

326€

$484 CAD

 

@He_162 i know how to use google cant find any site that states that coffeelake will be 10nm for Desktop.

[Dabombinable]

Nope. My 4780K will be telling Intel to fuck off even harder once I get a better cooler and overclock it to 4.7/4.8GHz (4.8GHz with 2 cores under load, 4.7GHz with all under full load).

Edit: I also need to get it off DDR3 1333 but that's neither here nor there at the moment-it can wait until later.

[lsstefan]

2 minutes ago, DarkSmith2 said:

EU-Prices are leaked

https://www.computerbase.de/2017-08/intel-coffee-lake-preis-verfuegbarkeit/

 

for 8700k:

326€

$484 CAD

 

@He_162 i know how to use google cant find any site that states that coffeelake will be 10nm for Desktop.

That's not possible... I paid 190e for a 7600k from a guy that buys bulk to get them cheap and no invoice and stuff. Retail for it is more than 250e. How the heck is a new gen cheaper? Did Ryzen did all that?

Not to mention th 8350k is cheaper than the 7600k for the same performance or better....

Damn it...

[DarkSmith2]

2 minutes ago, lsstefan said:

That's not possible... I paid 190e for a 7600k from a guy that buys bulk to get them cheap and no invoice and stuff. Retail for it is more than 250e. How the heck is a new gen cheaper? Did Ryzen did all that?

Not to mention th 8350k is cheaper than the 7600k for the same performance or better....

Damn it...

well ok its still a rumor until tomorrow, but yea if its true. Thanks to AMD. Release date is rumored to be the 16th September btw.

[TahoeDust]

47 minutes ago, He_162 said:

When you don't know anything for sure about a processor and are trying to make a conversation when everyone knows nothing but rumors, that happens often. It's not amazing, it's expected, what was amazing is that you stopped by only to indirectly insult those people, shouldn't you be correcting them if that's the issue?

I felt like you had already been thoroughly corrected.  Coffee Lake is 14nm....period. They are not going to change that between now and tomorrow when it’s isn’t announced.

[Teddy07]

On 19.8.2017 at 10:20 PM, Klovnious said:

I have a 4790K and I'm looking forward for CL. But I think I might wait for IceLake (10nm right?) before I build a new system.

yeah me too. Not worth the upgrade since the cpu is still very strong. I might upgrade in 2020+ but I will see.