Who are you voting for?

[Howlingwolf101]

53 minutes ago, Real_PhillBert said:

He is also the only candidate with a zombie preparedness plan, although it seems to be a poor plan...

He also plans to go back in time and kill baby Hitler. How many other candidates have promised that?

[shermantanker]

1 hour ago, K0MP4CT said:

Just a warning to America, if you feel that people dislike you now (not saying I do) just imagine how much worse that will be if Trump wins...oh god.

 

Yeah I could care less what Europe thinks of us. Lol. And to be honest a lot of the reporting on him has been blown way out of proportion especially his comments on Mexicans and Muslims. Now the guy is still an ass, but not really as big of an ass as everyone makes him out to be. Everyone has messed up assumptions of everyone lol.

[shermantanker]

36 minutes ago, Howlingwolf101 said:

He also plans to go back in time and kill baby Hitler. How many other candidates have promised that?

Now that is a bold statement. Screw curing cancer... we must rally and build a time machine!

[shermantanker]

1 hour ago, Real_PhillBert said:

He is also the only candidate with a zombie preparedness plan, although it seems to be a poor plan...

He should turn to Reddit for a better one.

[Volbet]

1 hour ago, K0MP4CT said:

Just a warning to America, if you feel that people dislike you now (not saying I do) just imagine how much worse that will be if Trump wins...oh god.

I never really understood this argument, so would you mind explaining it to me?

 

A politician should never be affraid of what other people him/her, especially people outside of the country. 

Popular opinion does not equal correct. 

A politician should do what s/he find right. Whether or not they do right is different debate.

 

America's reputation around the world is pretty much a non-issue if Trump could make America great again. 

 

Lastly, politician represent the country first and formost. The citizens of a country aren't their politicans. 

If we were I would be royaly screwed.

 

7 minutes ago, shermantanker said:

Now that is a bold statement. Screw curing cancer... we must rally and build a time machine!

Screw both of them. I just want a pony.

[K0MP4CT]

46 minutes ago, Volbet said:

I never really understood this argument, so would you mind explaining it to me?

 

A politician should never be affraid of what other people him/her, especially people outside of the country. 

Popular opinion does not equal correct. 

A politician should do what s/he find right. Whether or not they do right is different debate.

 

America's reputation around the world is pretty much a non-issue if Trump could make America great again. 

 

Lastly, politician represent the country first and formost. The citizens of a country aren't their politicans. 

If we were I would be royaly screwed.

 

Screw both of them. I just want a pony.

Trump can make America great again. If great consists of a country scared of religions and other countries. He's racist and an incompetent leader as far as I'm concerned. However, it's not my country, and I couldn't care less on the political side of it.

[Volbet]

24 minutes ago, K0MP4CT said:

Trump can make America great again. If great consists of a country scared of religions and other countries. He's racist and an incompetent leader as far as I'm concerned. However, it's not my country, and I couldn't care less on the political side of it.

I'm not saying that he will make America great again. I just used him as en example. 

 

My questione as just how you equate popular perception with tangible results? As far as I can see the two doesn't necessarily affect eachother. 

[Speedyv]

3 hours ago, Real_PhillBert said:

I didn't realize there were any republicans left in California

 

“It is a well known fact that reality has a liberal bias.”

 - Stephen Colbert 

 

lol

 

 

[stconquest]

1 hour ago, Volbet said:

I'm not saying that he will make America great again. I just used him as en example. 

 

My questione as just how you equate popular perception with tangible results? As far as I can see the two doesn't necessarily affect eachother. 

It's not whether Trump will care what people think of him as much as the general population of the USA.  The USA would become a laughing stock for voting in that idiot.  A true low for the country as a whole.

 

Trump has no policies.  He just talks shit 100% of the time.  Really.
 

His best financial success is not in real estate, it is being a TV personality.  His real estate deals are all shady and investor funded.  He has ripped off investors how many times now?

 

I can't believe people think he is worth 10Billion dollars... what a joke.  FFS some people think he is honest and "tells it like it is"... just wow.  Trump will say anything to feed people's ignorance and fear.  He does not give a fuck what it is.

[Volbet]

3 minutes ago, stconquest said:

It's not whether Trump will care what people think of him as much as the general population of the USA.  The USA would become a laughing stock for voting in that idiot.  A true low for the country as a whole.

But if the people laughing were objectivly wrong, then why should Americans care?

 

And even if Trump is a complete disaster, the people laughing would still be wrong. The actions and beliefs of politicians are only representive of the politician, not the people who voted for him/her.

If Trump acts like a buffon, the that only reflects badly on Trump.

[stconquest]

13 minutes ago, Volbet said:

But if the people laughing were objectivly wrong, then why should Americans care?

 

And even if Trump is a complete disaster, the people laughing would still be wrong. The actions and beliefs of politicians are only representive of the politician, not the people who voted for him/her.

If Trump acts like a buffon, the that only reflects badly on Trump.

They would not be wrong... that is the thing.  Trump has no place as a leader of a political state.  Man is a fucking idiot.

 

Wrong, if Trump acts like a buffoon it ALSO reflects on his supporters.  An uninformed/misinformed community of shit.

 

As you can see I am getting angry... this level of stupidity is the scariest thing to me, more than death. 

 

I feel bad for good conservatives sometimes.  It seems all the available intelligence in the USA  moves to the left:

 

 

 

[suchamoneypit]

On 2/28/2016 at 1:22 AM, smeek14 said:

Who are you voting for and why?

 This country was formed on the Constitution and the Bible and we are straying away from it and it needs to stop!!!  

 

isn't government and church supposed to be seperate?

 

"

In English, the exact term is an offshoot of the phrase, "wall of separation between church and state", as written in Thomas Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802. In that letter, referencing the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, Jefferson writes:

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church and State.^[20]

"

 

the country was founded on freedom of religion not the bible, which is one religion.

[Unhelpful]

On 2/28/2016 at 11:38 AM, Albatross said:

 

Yea, he does need someone to work on his website but if you think about it, it isn't all that bad. I kinda like the simplicity of it though. He doesn't need an ultra nice looking site as long as his ideals are supreme. <33

 

Sorry for spamming you with "Thumbs Up..." Didn't realize it until #3 or #4. I agree with damn near everything you said.

[DarkRift5]

I'm hoping Bloomberg finally pulls the trigger and runs, or Kasich gets more attention.

If not... well... Hillary I guess. Not voting for an angry loud-mouthed bigot like Trump, nor am I voting for a socialist.

[K0MP4CT]

34 minutes ago, Volbet said:

But if the people laughing were objectivly wrong, then why should Americans care?

 

And even if Trump is a complete disaster, the people laughing would still be wrong. The actions and beliefs of politicians are only representive of the politician, not the people who voted for him/her.

If Trump acts like a buffon, the that only reflects badly on Trump.

If he acts like one prior to being elected, then the people that vote for him are given the same label as him. If someone says something racist, and you vote them him, are you any more competent or sane by voting for him? (I don't mean specifically you, I used 'you' referring to a general person).

 

As far as I'm concerned Obama has been the best thing that's happened to America.

[AlwaysFSX]

Sanders will have to run as an independent simply because democratic delegates are jokes that were bought by Clinton. I think he needs to have more information out there about how he plans to pay for his versions of social programs, but it interests me. I'd start by cutting all these waste of money social programs that are over-funded but do virtually nothing for how much we spend on them. Speaking of Clinton, she's just going to throw us in to war after war and try to screw over the global political arena because hurr durr 'Murica. Trump will make a mockery of everything, which is no surprise, but won't be any real threat. Congress and the Supreme Court won't let him get away with anything. The rest of the people running for the Republican nomination are jokes with such a lack of political intelligence they couldn't pour water out of a boot with the instructions on the heel.

 

 

 

Just my two cents.

[Volbet]

10 hours ago, stconquest said:

They would not be wrong... that is the thing.  Trump has no place as a leader of a political state.  Man is a fucking idiot.

 

Wrong, if Trump acts like a buffoon it ALSO reflects on his supporters.  An uninformed/misinformed community of shit.

 

As you can see I am getting angry... this level of stupidity is the scariest thing to me, more than death. 

 

I feel bad for good conservatives sometimes.  It seems all the available intelligence in the USA  moves to the left:

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Well, Trump hasn't been elected yet, so we don't actually know what Trump would be like as a president. 

We might have a general idea, but we don't know for certain. 

 

People would probably vote (and have already voted) for Trump for a varity of reason. And yes, some of those people probably have racist reasons.

Some people probably just fear their future, and see immigration as one of the things they fear. So it's more xenophobia than racism. 

A big part of Trumo's (I apperantly misspelled that, but I don't care. Trumo is just better) voters probably vote for him for the same reasons people vote for Bernie Sanders. He is something new, he speaks his mind and he doesn't represent the establishment. 

 

There is an argument to to be had about the actions of a politician reflecting badly on his/her supporters, but I still think the autonomy of the politicians would be a better argument against.

And as said before, the supporters probably only support parts of a policy. It is rare that a voter and a politician are 100% in agreement on every issue. 

 

And Trump's presidency could not in any way reflect badly on anyone who didn't support him, seeing how they didn't vote for him. They may even have voted against him. 

 

I did see that John Oliver segment and I don't really disagree. We do need to start looking at Trump the man instead of Trump the brand. 

 

And the intelligence reserve is not always great on the left either. Just look at Bill Maher (which also applies to Trump).

There is also a debate to be had about why ´smart´ people are flocking to the left side of the aisle. 

Are Stephen Colbert and John Stuart Mill just correct, or is there something else going on in colleges and universities in America?

 

10 hours ago, K0MP4CT said:

If he acts like one prior to being elected, then the people that vote for him are given the same label as him. If someone says something racist, and you vote them him, are you any more competent or sane by voting for him? (I don't mean specifically you, I used 'you' referring to a general person).

 

As far as I'm concerned Obama has been the best thing that's happened to America.

It depends on why you're voting for him. 

There could be many reasons besides his immigration policy. Some people might just like his no BS and anti-establishment attitude, and they don't really care about his foreign policy. As said above, most voters won't agree with the person they are voting on 100% of the issues. 

[K0MP4CT]

45 minutes ago, Volbet said:

Well, Trump hasn't been elected yet, so we don't actually know what Trump would be like as a president. 

We might have a general idea, but we don't know for certain. 

 

People would probably (and have already) vote for Trump for a varity of reason. And yes, some of those people probably have racist reasons.

Some people probably just fear their future, and see immigration as one of the things they fear. So it's more xenophobia than racism. 

A big part of Trumo's (I apperantly misspelled that, but I don't care. Trumo is just better) voters probably vote for him for the same reasons people vote for Bernie Sanders. He is something new, he speaks his mind and he doesn't represent the establishment. 

 

There is an argument to to be had about the actions of a politician reflecting badly on his/her supporters, but I still think the autonomy of the politicians would be a better argument against.

And as said before, the supporters probably only support parts of a policy. It is rare that a voter and a politician are 100% in agreement on every issue. 

 

And Trump's presidency could not in any way reflect badly on anyone who didn't support him, seeing how they didn't vote for him. They may even have voted against him. 

 

I did see that John Oliver segment and I don't really disagree. We do need to start looking at Trump the man instead of Trump the brand. 

 

And the intelligence reserve is not always great on the left either. Just look at Bill Maher (which also applies to Trump).

There is also a debate to be had about why ´smart´ people are flocking to the left side of the aisle. 

Are Stephen Colbert and John Stuart Mill just correct, or is there something else going on in colleges and universities in America?

 

It depends on why you're voting for him. 

There could be many reasons besides his immigration policy. Some people might just like his no BS and anti-establishment attitude, and tey don't really care about his foreign policy. As said above, most voters won't agree with the person they are voting on 100% of the issues. 

Which is why I hate politics. The only person that is 100% happy with the outcome, is the person elected.

[stconquest]

1 hour ago, Volbet said:

1.  Well, Trump hasn't been elected yet, so we don't actually know what Trump would be like as a president. 

We might have a general idea, but we don't know for certain. 

 

2.  People would probably (and have already) vote for Trump for a varity of reason. And yes, some of those people probably have racist reasons.

Some people probably just fear their future, and see immigration as one of the things they fear. So it's more xenophobia than racism. 

A big part of Trumo's voters probably vote for him for the same reasons people vote for Bernie Sanders. He is something new, he speaks his mind and he doesn't represent the establishment. 

 

3.  There is an argument to to be had about the actions of a politician reflecting badly on his/her supporters, but I still think the autonomy of the politicians would be a better argument against.

And as said before, the supporters probably only support parts of a policy. It is rare that a voter and a politician are 100% in agreement on every issue. 

 

4.  And Trump's presidency could not in any way reflect badly on anyone who didn't support him, seeing how they didn't vote for him. They may even have voted against him. 

 

5.  I did see that John Oliver segment and I don't really disagree. We do need to start looking at Trump the man instead of Trump the brand. 

 

6.  And the intelligence reserve is not always great on the left either. Just look at Bill Maher (which also applies to Trump).

There is also a debate to be had about why ´smart´ people are flocking to the left side of the aisle. 

Are Stephen Colbert and John Stuart Mill just correct, or is there something else going on in colleges and universities in America?

 

Closing:  It depends on why you're voting for him. 

There could be many reasons besides his immigration policy. Some people might just like his no BS and anti-establishment attitude, and tey don't really care about his foreign policy. As said above, most voters won't agree with the person they are voting on 100% of the issues. 

1.  We don't really need to know what Trump would be like as a president to assess how badly he would act.  He has very little idea of domestic policy and even less of an idea of how to conduct state business abroad.  He is used to bullying his way through deals.  He threatens people with lawsuits and demoralizes any opposing viewpoints.  Don't you see it?  Imagine a sit down with a militarist like Putin.  Trump would instantly turn into the biggest coward on the planet.  He would raise his voice and scream foul, all the while crying inside because he is scared.  Trump has no principles.  Nothing to stand firm on.  He gives a shit about nothing but his ego.

 

2.  When people support Trump, they are not supporting him or his ideas.  They see what they see, not the real him.  It is a heavy-duty mind fuck. His ideas are not his own but only what he has found to generate a response in his favor (as a lot of politicians do).  If he feels empowered to rally behind any idea, he will. 

 

Now holy smokes!  Hold on there big boy.  You just equated a civil servant that has stuck to his beliefs for over 40 years, to that poor excuse for a business tycoon.  Bernie Sanders has what Donald Trump has never had:  conviction.  What you see from Bernie is the actual person.  When people support Bernie, a lot of them can actually determine the authenticity of the man.  You do need to have some level of experience with people (good, bad and ugly) to be able to even see the man.  People do not support Sanders the same way as others support Trump... those acts are not even in the same universe. 

 

Bernie Sanders:  Something new?  Oh hell no.  He has been around the block quite a few times.

 

Donald Trump represents corruption as is;  he does not need the established cronyism to make him look bad.  He does enough on his own.

 

3.  Let me make this clear:  Donald Trump has no policies of his own.  Nothing.  He fears policy because he might alienate some part of his fan base.  He don't give a fuuuuuuck about anything but leading the race.  A wise man once said:  You are a slave to what you say, and a master of what you do not.

 

4.  I don't understand that statement, or it's place.

 

5.  I have never looked at Trump and not seen the "man".  His "brand" is utter garbage.  Oh boy, could I go on about his bullshit brand.

 

6.  It was a joke, with a bit of truth mixed in.

 

Closing:  Trump has no policy for immigration.  He preys on ignorance and fear:  Us, not them;  Them, not us;  He will spread xenophobia in any way he can to exploit the very real weaknesses of the populous.  It is a scary (and might be considered cruel) thought, but I look at this stuff and my only resolve is that these people will one day die off and a better equipped populous will take it's place. 

 

Again, Trump does represent the establishment.  Do you really buy that bullshit?  He has been the guy bribing politicians.  He is so arrogant he even admits it in a public debate.  This is done knowing fully that his supporters are too fucking stupid to grasp the concept.  If I tell you I am corrupt, then it is okay.... RIGHT?

 

It is not about agreeing with a politician 100% the way.  It is about being able to realize who is is fit for office and who is not.  Valdygamer, I believe, keeps saying Sanders is a shit military leader as if the other candidates have somehow proven that they can lead an army...HAHAHA.  No offense Valdy, I love you.

 

If people choose to believe that every single politician is corrupt, and that it will always be that way...

 

HOW WILL THEY EVER SEE AN RELATIVELY HONEST POLITICIAN?

 

Addendum:  I have myself romanticized Bernie Sanders.  Wait... not how you think.  When I look at him talk, I can see my grandfather.  I can, if I wish, choose to explore those feelings.  I don't, however, misunderstand this scenario from the real fact that Bernie Sanders is not my grandfather.  That emotional ride is for me;  about me;  not Sanders.  It is that crazy white hair and his conviction that reminds me of my grandfather.

 

I really fear that some people do not separate what is real from what is not.

 

The facts point to one thing when regarding Sanders:  What you see is roughly what you get.  There is no deception.  He is not perfect and I am afraid he will show his fallacies, as he has before.  He is a "real" person and by any intelligent measure:  A damn good one.

[Volbet]

2 hours ago, stconquest said:

 

Spoiler

 

1.  We don't really need to know what Trump would be like as a president to assess how badly he would act.  He has very little idea of domestic policy and even less of an idea of how to conduct state business abroad.  He is used to bullying his way through deals.  He threatens people with lawsuits and demoralizes any opposing viewpoints.  Don't you see it?  Imagine a sit down with a militarist like Putin.  Trump would instantly turn into the biggest coward on the planet.  He would raise his voice and scream foul, all the while crying inside because he is scared.  Trump has no principles.  Nothing to stand firm on.  He gives a shit about nothing but his ego.

 

2.  When people support Trump, they are not supporting him or his ideas.  They see what they see, not the real him.  It is a heavy-duty mind fuck. His ideas are not his own but only what he has found to generate a response in his favor (as a lot of politicians do).  If he feels empowered to rally behind any idea, he will. 

 

Now holy smokes!  Hold on there big boy.  You just equated a civil servant that has stuck to his beliefs for over 40 years, to that poor excuse for a business tycoon.  Bernie Sanders has what Donald Trump has never had:  conviction.  What you see from Bernie is the actual person.  When people support Bernie, a lot of them can actually determine the authenticity of the man.  You do need to have some level of experience with people (good, bad and ugly) to be able to even see the man.  People do not support Sanders the same way as others support Trump... those acts are not even in the same universe. 

 

Bernie Sanders:  Something new?  Oh hell no.  Donald Trump represents corruption as is;  he does not need the established cronyism to make him look bad.  He does enough on his own.

 

3.  Let me make this clear:  Donald Trump has no policies of his own.  Nothing.  He fears policy because he might alienate some part of his fan base.  He don't give a fuuuuuuck about anything but leading the race.  A wise man once said:  You are a slave to what you say, and a master of what you do not.

 

4.  I don't understand that statement, or it's place.

 

5.  I have never looked at Trump and not seen the "man".  His "brand" is utter garbage.  Oh boy, could I go on about his bullshit brand.

 

6.  It was a joke, with a bit of truth mixed in.

 

Closing:  Trump has no policy for immigration.  He preys on ignorance and fear:  Us, not them;  Them, not us;  He will spread xenophobia in any way he can to exploit the very real weaknesses of the populous.  It is a scary (and might be considered cruel) thought, but I look at this stuff and my only resolve is that these people will one day die off and a better equipped populous will take it's place. 

 

Again, Trumps does represent the establishment.  Do you really buy that bullshit?  He has been the guy bribing politicians.  He is so fucking dumb he even admits it.  This is done knowing fully that his supporters are too fucking stupid to grasp the concept.  If I tell you I am corrupt, then it is okay.... RIGHT?

 

It is not about agreeing with a politician 100% the way.  It is about being able to realize who is is fit for office and who is not.  Valdygamer, I believe, keeps saying Sanders is a shit military leader as if the other candidates have somehow proven that they can lead an army...HAHAHA.  No offense Valdy, I love you.

 

If people choose to believe that every single politician is corrupt, and that it will always be that way...

 

HOW WILL THEY EVER SEE AN RELATIVELY HONEST POLITICIAN?

 

 

This is what I wanted from this thread. Actual argumentation as to why one should or shouldn't vote for a candidate. 

I agree on almost all the points you made. 

 

However, I will say that I have heard people say that they would vote for Bernie Sanders just becuase he is different from the regular Democratic candidate.

And I have heard people spout the same argument to defend why they are voting for Trump. I don't say both sides have an equal amount of those supporters.

But people that support a candidate just becuase s/he is different is going at it the wrong way, no matter what candidate they support. 

 

My point in number 4 was that if you don't vote for Donald Trump, his action can't reflect badly on you, which was the root of the orignal argument. 

It's pretty much a regurgitated point from George Carlin

 

 

[stconquest]

5 minutes ago, Volbet said:

This is what I wanted from this thread. Actual argumentation as to why one should or shouldn't vote for a candidate. 

I agree on almost all the points you made. 

 

However, I will say that I have heard people say that they would vote for Bernie Sanders just becuase he is different from the regular Democratic candidate.

And I have heard people spout the same argument to defend why they are voting for Trump. I don't both sides have an equal amount of those supporters.

But people that support a candidate just becuase s/he is different is going at it the wrong way, no matter what candidate they support. 

 

My point in number 4 was that if you don't vote for Donald Trump, his action can't reflect badly on you, which was the root of the orignal argument. 

It's pretty much a regurgitated point from George Carlin

 

Those are just lazy voters.  It may seem okay if they vote for a decent person, but in actuality, those same people can turn and vote for a horrendous candidate in another election.  People have to generally care about policy and understand how it affects them (and others).

 

I don't even live in the USA.  I watch because it will affect me, and I actually care about people.

[Admiral Naismith]

Sanders because it's only him and Hillary who actually have a chance of winning, and Hillary is terrible.

In all honesty, I don't think *any* of the candidates are good choices. Sanders is 'meh', the rest that have any real following are terrible. I like a lot of Sanders's polities, but I don't he'll be able to back most of them up because of Blockgress^TM. If I had to pick who would be the better military leader, I'd have to go with Hillary since she has more experience. I don't think either one of them would be good though. I'd imagine in a conflict they'd both end up letting the generals do their own thing which is a terrible plan.

 

"This country was formed... on the Bible"

 

FAWKING TRIGGERED

 

[Mug]

Well, if I was in the US I'd vote for Bernie but in the UK I usually vote Conservative at general elections, Lib Dem in European elections and Labour for council elections. It's a weird mix but I reckon it works well.

I vote Conservative because I reckon they've got my economic interests at heart and politically I think they generally do the best in government. imo Cameron's government which, whilst it's done a few questionable things, is very good overall, having done fewer questionable things than Labour after they won in the past. The argument goes both ways though and if I was able to vote in a fair system I'd vote for Lib Dem but you know...

Many people draw comparisons between Conservative policy and Republican policy, but I think that this is an unfair one really; the Republicans are way too right wing, probably right of UKIP. The Conservatives are like the Democrats in terms of policy and Labour, well that doesn't even register on the American political radar. I mean look at their policy last election, £8bn more to the NHS, more care for elderly, more hours of childcare. It's arguable that Tory policy in the last election was more left-wing than Labour policy in the elections they won in 2001 and 2005. Whilst few of these policies affect me, I think that they benefit the country as a whole.

[RedRound2]

A hilarious video on John Oliver bashing Donald Trump

I honestly don't know why people vote for this maniac

 

 

[Real_PhillBert]

Happy Super Tuesday everyone! As of right now here's how things are stacking up:

 

Democratic Party:

Hillary Clinton - 546

Bernie Sanders - 87

2383 needed for the nomination.

 

Republican Party:

Donald Trump - 82

Ted Cruz - 17

Marco Rubio - 16

1237 needed for the nomination.

 

Things still have time to change on the Republican front, but Hillary has a commanding lead for the Democrats.