AMD's quarterly earnings report - operating loss of 49 million and net loss of 102 million USD

[MarcoR]

I wouldn't be pleased if AMD went that far down the gutter (though I would happily short their stock and earn my share from it, just good business). AMD needs to stay around to be the competitive company we need them to be BUT as a consumer, I won't be giving my money to them just to support the underdog. 

 

That never makes sense to me. Good products need to stand on their own and part of good products is the marketing used to sell them TO THE AVERAGE JOE. That is what matters the most and that is what AMD needs to handle just as badly as they need to worry about modern products. 

 

I can't recommend AMD for any reason for CPUs anymore. For GPUs sure, there is value there but I won't push someone to switch to either side just to save 30 bucks, that needs to be a 3x differential before I recommend that. People don't like change, its something you have to account for when you sell a product. Its a fact of life. Why should I change? If AMD (or Nvidia or Intel) can't answer that, they won't get a sale. 

 

I empathize but I won't be sorry for them. They can only hang onto Intels shenanigans in the past for so long before they have to realize they bungled their investments and their RD themselves and if it means they have to haemorrhage their share price and bank account before they bounce back - so be it. 

 

Apple was inches away from being yet another tech failure, mismanaged to the brink of extinction with no discernible advantage. They pulled out and pulled out big time. Does that means AMD needs a change in leadership? Maybe. A change in focus? Maybe. 

 

I've been sitting around for years hearing the "change is coming" from AMD. This isn't US politics, you don't get business by promising change. Consumers (and the industry overall) want to see it before they put down money for it. 

[PCBjon]

I understand that but there's very few things AMD can do besides cheaper production costs or raised prices and hopeful marketing.

 

Then you would know it's the only way they can recoup money. Selling products at a loss is no bueno. They need to make their next generation cards a little bit more expensive otherwise they're just going to go out of business from bankruptcy.

 

AMD didn't price their products at a loss they are just not selling. Now that could be a few factors at play here and the biggest is performance their cpus are nowhere near the performance of the Intel cpus and they know this which is why they priced it lower than Intel's.

 

Upping the prices doesn't always work, it would be nice to think so but sadly its not they only way for AMD to up the price is to up the performance. Their gpus I think are great I own one iv no problems with it but their CPUs are avoidable and upping the price would just drive more people towards Intel.

[Sakkura]

I just showed where you generalized all pentiums as budget gamer CPU's. They are not. A budget gamer CPU is a CPU that can play all games while being cheap. The Pentiums are cheap, but they cannot play all games. Budget GPU's (Sub $150) can still play the latest AAA titles at playable Framerates. You cannot say the same about the G3258. 

 

I am starting to think you have not owned a Pentium. As a man that has owned two, both overclocked, I can tell you that they were not designed for gaming tasks.

 

When i say business, i mean word documents and excel spreadsheets. Data entry and web-browsing. Even then, these are entry level business SKU's, as you yourself stated, they lack VT-d, and most prolific instruction sets.

 

You think this one pentium that released 1.5 years ago, completely changed the entire Pentium market? Made all other pentiums obsolete and re-defined the market design of these Pentiums? I honestly do not know what you are thinking, but I can tell you it has absolutely nothing to do with my point. You are not going to see another unlocked pentium any time soon. Let alone one with an iGPU worth more than the CPU itself. On your holy crusade to defend the G3258 as a budget gamer CPU, you completely forgot that the CPU fails to deliver a smooth gaming performance across all titles. Therefore, it is not a gamer CPU. Currently the G3258 is listed at $65. $5 more could get you an Athlon 860k, which is where the "budget gamer CPU" market starts.  

 

"It's good at playing some games though!". Yeah, some games, not all. Let's call it a "Budget Light-Gaming CPU". Now if only you could tell me how your points had any relevance to my original statement of "Putting Iris Pro series GPU's on a Pentium is a waste of money". 

 

I didn't say Pentiums are ONLY for gaming. Just that they're absolutely appropriate as budget gaming CPUs. They can play almost all games, and pretty much all the most popular games will run pretty smoothly.

 

Excel documents and spreadsheets? You can do that on a Celeron. Pentiums are not designed for that sort of thing, especially not the desktop ones using the high-performance architectures.

 

The Pentium G3258 very obviously changed the market for Pentium CPUs. It got a heck of a lot of attention. There is still a considerable amount of attention on it to this day - a thread on the front page of /r/buildapc right now, for example.

 

I did not go on any crusade, and I never claimed the G3258 would run all games smoothly. Just a lot of them - particularly a lot of the most popular games. That's what you'd expect from a budget gaming CPU. It's not perfect for everything, but you get a lot of performance per dollar. The G3258 outperforms the Athlon x4 860K in the majority of games.

 

The relevance of all this is that a budget gaming CPU like the G3258 would be an attractive option with good integrated graphics, if the price premium for the iGPU was reasonable.

[Paralectic]

Another reminder Arctic Islands/Zen better kick some @ss to the point where everyone but die-hard fanboys at least seriously considers them.

If you're not a fanboy, you consider AMD.

[Jack Kaye Pc Gamer]

 

 I won't allow them to do that sadly.

 

 

Since when do u choose what amd does?

[vanished]

Since when do u choose what amd does?

sshh, secretly is CEO

[HarmFull]

This sucks, if Nvidia doesn't have any competition anymore, well than forget performance progress!

[vanished]

This sucks, if Nvidia doesn't have any competition anymore, well than forget performance progress!

they would still make improvements.  If they didn't, no one would buy new cards since games wouldn't get more demanding since studios would know there isn't progress being made, etc.

[Majestic]

Since when do u choose what amd does?

 

In the sense that I will call out their shenanigans on this website. And will bust their Marketing wherever I can. Just as I would with any other company.

[MageTank]

I didn't say Pentiums are ONLY for gaming. Just that they're absolutely appropriate as budget gaming CPUs. They can play almost all games, and pretty much all the most popular games will run pretty smoothly.

 

Excel documents and spreadsheets? You can do that on a Celeron. Pentiums are not designed for that sort of thing, especially not the desktop ones using the high-performance architectures.

 

The Pentium G3258 very obviously changed the market for Pentium CPUs. It got a heck of a lot of attention. There is still a considerable amount of attention on it to this day - a thread on the front page of /r/buildapc right now, for example.

 

I did not go on any crusade, and I never claimed the G3258 would run all games smoothly. Just a lot of them - particularly a lot of the most popular games. That's what you'd expect from a budget gaming CPU. It's not perfect for everything, but you get a lot of performance per dollar. The G3258 outperforms the Athlon x4 860K in the majority of games.

 

The relevance of all this is that a budget gaming CPU like the G3258 would be an attractive option with good integrated graphics, if the price premium for the iGPU was reasonable.

 

I didn't say Pentiums are ONLY for gaming. Just that they're absolutely appropriate as budget gaming CPUs. They can play almost all games, and pretty much all the most popular games will run pretty smoothly.

 

Excel documents and spreadsheets? You can do that on a Celeron. Pentiums are not designed for that sort of thing, especially not the desktop ones using the high-performance architectures.

 

The Pentium G3258 very obviously changed the market for Pentium CPUs. It got a heck of a lot of attention. There is still a considerable amount of attention on it to this day - a thread on the front page of /r/buildapc right now, for example.

 

I did not go on any crusade, and I never claimed the G3258 would run all games smoothly. Just a lot of them - particularly a lot of the most popular games. That's what you'd expect from a budget gaming CPU. It's not perfect for everything, but you get a lot of performance per dollar. The G3258 outperforms the Athlon x4 860K in the majority of games.

 

The relevance of all this is that a budget gaming CPU like the G3258 would be an attractive option with good integrated graphics, if the price premium for the iGPU was reasonable.

I quoted you earlier when you said this:

 

Pentium is definitely a budget gamer CPU. Especially the G3258. No business overclocks (except LMG).

This was in the context of me generalizing pentiums as a CPU "not designed for gaming". With the way you worded your post, it makes it seem as if you believe every pentium is "definitely budget gamer CPU's". Definitely being the key word, meaning without a doubt. Problem is, that CPU cannot handle quite a few of the newest AAA titles properly. The ones that do work, stutter, or require edits to fix said stutters. Do not tell me otherwise, because like i have said several times so far, I own two overclocked pentiums. One that is faster than any G3258 in the world (At 4.75ghz, it was outbenching 5ghz G3258's, and was even paired with 3200mhz memory). 

 

You also said it changed the market for Pentiums. How can ONE overclockable pentium change the entire market? You honestly think people are going to continue buying a G3258 to overclock it when better platforms exist? How long do you think that will last? Skylake pentiums are already locked again (Excluding the non-K overclocking BIOS from ASRock, MSI and SuperMicro, which has caveats all on their own) and seeing as this was an anniversary product, it is likely they will continue to be locked until the next major anniversary milestone.

 

The market does not change with one niche product. Benchmarks do not lie, and I can show you several benchmarks where the G3258 is just not capable of handling some of the latest AAA titles. You have to cap GTA 5 to 40fps, edit an ini file and do all sorts of driver edits just to smooth that game out at 40fps. 40fps is considered Unplayable to some people (personally, its fine for me, but it still stutters too much in certain area's, and the texture streaming is still too slow). 

 

I am not saying one can't game on a Pentium. Nowhere will you find me saying that. What I have been trying to get through your head, is that INTEL does not market these CPU's as gaming CPU's. You won't see a commercial advertising Pentiums as a gaming CPU like you see with their Core series. To Intel, these are not gaming chips. It is for that reason alone, that they will not make money off of putting a stronger iGPU on them. Look at the current Iris Pro lineups, and see the difference in price. I'm not talking desktop either, and its limited supply. Look at the laptops, ranging all the way back to the Haswell Iris Pro SKU's. They have quite a premium to them, even the i3's. Putting these in an already slow pentium, and charging more money just won't appeal to people. 

 

Intel does not see the pentiums as a budget gaming market, nor do I and pretty much the majority of this forum. As much as it might hurt peoples feelings for me to say it, it's just the honest truth. You get what you pay for. Buying a $50 CPU and intending for it to play your latest AAA titles is just asking for a bad time. There is already a large enough performance difference between i3's and i5's, so the gap between the Pentium and i3 is only solidified as more terrible ports get made. I am sure I don't need to name the publisher responsible for 90% of these bad ports, but i'll give a hint. "30fps just feels better than 60fps for gaming. "

[Sakkura]

 

I quoted you earlier when you said this:

 

This was in the context of me generalizing pentiums as a CPU "not designed for gaming". With the way you worded your post, it makes it seem as if you believe every pentium is "definitely budget gamer CPU's". Definitely being the key word, meaning without a doubt. Problem is, that CPU cannot handle quite a few of the newest AAA titles properly. The ones that do work, stutter, or require edits to fix said stutters. Do not tell me otherwise, because like i have said several times so far, I own two overclocked pentiums. One that is faster than any G3258 in the world (At 4.75ghz, it was outbenching 5ghz G3258's, and was even paired with 3200mhz memory). 

 

You also said it changed the market for Pentiums. How can ONE overclockable pentium change the entire market? You honestly think people are going to continue buying a G3258 to overclock it when better platforms exist? How long do you think that will last? Skylake pentiums are already locked again (Excluding the non-K overclocking BIOS from ASRock, MSI and SuperMicro, which has caveats all on their own) and seeing as this was an anniversary product, it is likely they will continue to be locked until the next major anniversary milestone.

 

The market does not change with one niche product. Benchmarks do not lie, and I can show you several benchmarks where the G3258 is just not capable of handling some of the latest AAA titles. You have to cap GTA 5 to 40fps, edit an ini file and do all sorts of driver edits just to smooth that game out at 40fps. 40fps is considered Unplayable to some people (personally, its fine for me, but it still stutters too much in certain area's, and the texture streaming is still too slow). 

 

I am not saying one can't game on a Pentium. Nowhere will you find me saying that. What I have been trying to get through your head, is that INTEL does not market these CPU's as gaming CPU's. You won't see a commercial advertising Pentiums as a gaming CPU like you see with their Core series. To Intel, these are not gaming chips. It is for that reason alone, that they will not make money off of putting a stronger iGPU on them. Look at the current Iris Pro lineups, and see the difference in price. I'm not talking desktop either, and its limited supply. Look at the laptops, ranging all the way back to the Haswell Iris Pro SKU's. They have quite a premium to them, even the i3's. Putting these in an already slow pentium, and charging more money just won't appeal to people. 

 

Intel does not see the pentiums as a budget gaming market, nor do I and pretty much the majority of this forum. As much as it might hurt peoples feelings for me to say it, it's just the honest truth. You get what you pay for. Buying a $50 CPU and intending for it to play your latest AAA titles is just asking for a bad time. There is already a large enough performance difference between i3's and i5's, so the gap between the Pentium and i3 is only solidified as more terrible ports get made. I am sure I don't need to name the publisher responsible for 90% of these bad ports, but i'll give a hint. "30fps just feels better than 60fps for gaming. "

 

 

Yes, you generalized Pentiums as not for gaming, and I asserted that they are definitely capable gaming CPUs. Was your wording any better?

 

The number of titles a Pentium, especially the G3258, cannot handle, is very small. The vast majority of games, including all the most popular ones, run just fine.

 

And it's obvious that the G3258 changed the market for Pentiums. Pentiums were looked down on before that arrived, and it sparked a lot of interest that persists to this day. The G3258 is not a niche product compared to the other Pentiums - if anything, it's the other Pentium models that are the niche products. Intel themselves put a lot more marketing into it than they usually do for low-end products.

[MageTank]

Yes, you generalized Pentiums as not for gaming, and I asserted that they are definitely capable gaming CPUs. Was your wording any better?

 

The number of titles a Pentium, especially the G3258, cannot handle, is very small. The vast majority of games, including all the most popular ones, run just fine.

 

And it's obvious that the G3258 changed the market for Pentiums. Pentiums were looked down on before that arrived, and it sparked a lot of interest that persists to this day. The G3258 is not a niche product compared to the other Pentiums - if anything, it's the other Pentium models that are the niche products. Intel themselves put a lot more marketing into it than they usually do for low-end products.

I generalized Pentiums because 99% of Pentiums are not the G3258. Just like you rationalize Pentiums being a gaming CPU just because they can play 90% of games. The G3258 did not change the market for Pentiums just because it was overclockable. Pentiums back in the day were overclockable. It did not change their intended market design. Just like this one CPU did not change everyones thoughts on Pentiums. Seriously, go buy a G3258 and come back after using it.

 

You keep saying "It play's a vast majority of games, including all of the most popular ones, run just fine". Really? GTA 5 is not popular? Dragon's Age Inquisition was not popular? AC:U (It's a Ubisoft game, i know, pls don't hurt me) was not popular? (again, for all the wrong reasons). Assassin's Creed Syndicate also runs just as poorly, having very sharp FPS dips due to the CPU being pegged at 100%. Battlefield 4, while playable on single player, stuttered a lot for me in multiplayer.

 

Face it. As more games come out, the G3258 will start to look even worse. 

 

As for why Intel marketed this CPU more than other Pentiums, perhaps i can spell this out for the 5th time already. ANNIVERSARY EDITION. Celebrating their 20th anniversary for the Pentium. In doing so, they made it special compared to other pentiums, by unlocking it. That's why it received more attention. NOWHERE in that marketing did they ever call it a gaming CPU. Intel knows better. No matter what our opinions of a product is, until the company that makes the product sees it the same way, it's design shall not change. As long as Intel sees the Pentium as a low end browsing/office CPU, we won't see powerful iGPU's on it.

 

What is the difference between a GTX 750, and a GT 730? One is a budget gaming card, the other is not. 

[Sakkura]

I generalized Pentiums because 99% of Pentiums are not the G3258. Just like you rationalize Pentiums being a gaming CPU just because they can play 90% of games. The G3258 did not change the market for Pentiums just because it was overclockable. Pentiums back in the day were overclockable. It did not change their intended market design. Just like this one CPU did not change everyones thoughts on Pentiums. Seriously, go buy a G3258 and come back after using it.

 

You keep saying "It play's a vast majority of games, including all of the most popular ones, run just fine". Really? GTA 5 is not popular? Dragon's Age Inquisition was not popular? AC:U (It's a Ubisoft game, i know, pls don't hurt me) was not popular? (again, for all the wrong reasons). Assassin's Creed Syndicate also runs just as poorly, having very sharp FPS dips due to the CPU being pegged at 100%. Battlefield 4, while playable on single player, stuttered a lot for me in multiplayer.

 

Face it. As more games come out, the G3258 will start to look even worse. 

 

As for why Intel marketed this CPU more than other Pentiums, perhaps i can spell this out for the 5th time already. ANNIVERSARY EDITION. Celebrating their 20th anniversary for the Pentium. In doing so, they made it special compared to other pentiums, by unlocking it. That's why it received more attention. NOWHERE in that marketing did they ever call it a gaming CPU. Intel knows better. No matter what our opinions of a product is, until the company that makes the product sees it the same way, it's design shall not change. As long as Intel sees the Pentium as a low end browsing/office CPU, we won't see powerful iGPU's on it.

 

What is the difference between a GTX 750, and a GT 730? One is a budget gaming card, the other is not. 

 

99% of Pentiums are not the G3258? Source please. From what I can see, it's the most common Pentium out there. It's the 14th best selling CPU on Amazon right now - this long after launch. The next Pentium on the list comes in at #32, the G4400. Same price, newer family, higher stock clocks... but it still isn't anywhere near the G3258.

 

You could say GTA V isn't one of the most popular games. Steam reports 52K players at peak today, while Dota 2 sits at 954K. Anyway, the G3258 can run GTA V reasonably well. Not great, but okay.

 

I know the G3258 will look worse as games gradually get more CPU-intensive. That doesn't change what the G3258 is today.

 

The GT730 is a budget gaming card, albeit a really bad one for the money. Anyone who just needs video outputs would (or should) buy a cheaper card.

[MageTank]

99% of Pentiums are not the G3258? Source please. From what I can see, it's the most common Pentium out there. It's the 14th best selling CPU on Amazon right now - this long after launch. The next Pentium on the list comes in at #32, the G4400. Same price, newer family, higher stock clocks... but it still isn't anywhere near the G3258.

 

You could say GTA V isn't one of the most popular games. Steam reports 52K players at peak today, while Dota 2 sits at 954K. Anyway, the G3258 can run GTA V reasonably well. Not great, but okay.

 

I know the G3258 will look worse as games gradually get more CPU-intensive. That doesn't change what the G3258 is today.

 

The GT730 is a budget gaming card, albeit a really bad one for the money. Anyone who just needs video outputs would (or should) buy a cheaper card.

You really need a source for the statement that "99% of pentiums are not the G3258"? That should be self explanatory. Oh well, ask and ye shall receive.  http://pcpartpicker.com/parts/cpu/#s=9&sort=a7&page=1

 

Plenty of Pentiums that are not called "G3258". Once again, you ignore the context of my posts and call out random sentences without understanding their meaning. Your entire point is that the G3258 "redefined pentiums" but its the only unlocked pentium out of dozens of pentiums on the market today. You can't say that a special edition CPU redefined the entire market segment for a product. It's a special edition chip, meaning not normal. How many times am I going to have to repeat myself until you understand that piece of information?

 

Also, the GT 730 is not advertised as a budget gaming card. It is listed officially by Nvidia as a "Multimedia card" followed by "3x the gaming performance of integrated graphics" (which btw, is no longer true). Even their board partners advertise it as multimedia. 

 

Also, that GTA 5 review is way off. The patches that went down has completely ruined the G3258 (And pretty much every dual core) performance in that game. The Ubisoft games are unplayable (for obvious reasons) and the others that i mentioned are playable, but have situations that can cause the CPU to stutter hard (Battlefield 4 multiplayer did this on me plenty of times, in situations that required me to not stutter for me to survive, talk about frustrating).

 

You want to know the secret as to why the G3258 was the 14th best selling CPU on Amazon? Because it is a cheap overclocking toy. It overclocks extremely easy, and any newbie overclocker can tinker with it without killing one of their i7's. I abused my G3258 like no other, just to test the limitations of certain voltages. Couple this with the fact that Amazon often has it on sale cheaper than Newegg (Got mine for $55 on Amazon back when it was $70 on Newegg) means that Amazon will get a large influx of business from people looking for cheap overclockable HTPC CPU's or the MMO/MOBA crowd looking for fast CPU's on a budget.

 

Yes, once again, i solidified your point regarding MMO's and MOBA's (If you look, i was the one to bring that up originally, but it still stands with my final statement on the subject). My point remains simple. You cannot call something a budget gaming ANYTHING, if it fails at playing even one game. With that logic, any CPU or GPU is a budget gaming component because they are capable of playing flash games on a web browser. For PC, and even consoles, the gaming term is very clear. It's either all or nothing. No middle ground, no gray area.

 

To put an end to this, I will reiterate the only point that matters. Intel does not advertise Pentiums as a budget gaming SKU. Therefore, they are not going to add a budget gaming iGPU to them. Just because a consumer wants to redefine a market segment, does not mean it will happen. Just look at the kids that demand 6 core SKU's on the non-enthusiast platform. As hard as they try, it won't matter if Intel themselves disagrees.

[Bouzoo]

99% of Pentiums are not the G3258? Source please. From what I can see, it's the most common Pentium out there. It's the 14th best selling CPU on Amazon right now - this long after launch. The next Pentium on the list comes in at #32, the G4400. Same price, newer family, higher stock clocks... but it still isn't anywhere near the G3258.

 

You are not serious are you? You want to say that 1 specific model that came out a year and half ago holds 1% of "Pentium market share" that's been existing for 23 years? Yes it's been selling like crazy but seriously? 1%?

 

And we both know there are other Pentium models that were manufactured in much bigger numbers, namely Core 2 Duos that are still used in many small and big companies.

[Sakkura]

You really need a source for the statement that "99% of pentiums are not the G3258"? That should be self explanatory. Oh well, ask and ye shall receive.  http://pcpartpicker.com/parts/cpu/#s=9&sort=a7&page=1

 

Plenty of Pentiums that are not called "G3258". Once again, you ignore the context of my posts and call out random sentences without understanding their meaning. Your entire point is that the G3258 "redefined pentiums" but its the only unlocked pentium out of dozens of pentiums on the market today. You can't say that a special edition CPU redefined the entire market segment for a product. It's a special edition chip, meaning not normal. How many times am I going to have to repeat myself until you understand that piece of information?

 

Also, the GT 730 is not advertised as a budget gaming card. It is listed officially by Nvidia as a "Multimedia card" followed by "3x the gaming performance of integrated graphics" (which btw, is no longer true). Even their board partners advertise it as multimedia. 

 

Also, that GTA 5 review is way off. The patches that went down has completely ruined the G3258 (And pretty much every dual core) performance in that game. The Ubisoft games are unplayable (for obvious reasons) and the others that i mentioned are playable, but have situations that can cause the CPU to stutter hard (Battlefield 4 multiplayer did this on me plenty of times, in situations that required me to not stutter for me to survive, talk about frustrating).

 

You want to know the secret as to why the G3258 was the 14th best selling CPU on Amazon? Because it is a cheap overclocking toy. It overclocks extremely easy, and any newbie overclocker can tinker with it without killing one of their i7's. I abused my G3258 like no other, just to test the limitations of certain voltages. Couple this with the fact that Amazon often has it on sale cheaper than Newegg (Got mine for $55 on Amazon back when it was $70 on Newegg) means that Amazon will get a large influx of business from people looking for cheap overclockable HTPC CPU's or the MMO/MOBA crowd looking for fast CPU's on a budget.

 

Yes, once again, i solidified your point regarding MMO's and MOBA's (If you look, i was the one to bring that up originally, but it still stands with my final statement on the subject). My point remains simple. You cannot call something a budget gaming ANYTHING, if it fails at playing even one game. With that logic, any CPU or GPU is a budget gaming component because they are capable of playing flash games on a web browser. For PC, and even consoles, the gaming term is very clear. It's either all or nothing. No middle ground, no gray area.

 

To put an end to this, I will reiterate the only point that matters. Intel does not advertise Pentiums as a budget gaming SKU. Therefore, they are not going to add a budget gaming iGPU to them. Just because a consumer wants to redefine a market segment, does not mean it will happen. Just look at the kids that demand 6 core SKU's on the non-enthusiast platform. As hard as they try, it won't matter if Intel themselves disagrees.

 

The G3258 makes up more than 1% of the Pentiums on that page, even if you freaking count all the tray vs. retail versions of the same chips and all the things that are no longer available at retail. And obviously we're not talking about the number of models, but the number of actual CPUs being sold (or in use, if you must).

 

I haven't said it redefined the market, please stop lying. It changed the market by attracting attention in a way Pentium SKUs haven't done in a long time. The fact that it's just a one-off and the change won't last doesn't mean the change didn't happen.

 

The G3258 is not really a special edition, it's an anniversary edition. Special editions typically have a limited production run, that's not the case with the anniversary edition.

 

Oh the GT 730 isn't a gaming card, but it's marketed based on its gaming performance? Well then it must not be a gaming card! What fantastic logic. You failed to take into account what I just explained to you: The GT 730 is not just a multimedia card, because it's too expensive for that role. You want display outputs, you go down the product stack as far as possible - GT 720, GT 610, even the GT 210. Plus similar options from AMD.

 

I've provided evidence that it runs well in GTA V, it's not my fault it doesn't suit your argument. And sure, there are a few other games where it doesn't run well. But those are a tiny subset of the games out there. When you buy budget stuff, you can't expect everything to run well. But you get all the less CPU-intensive games, ie. most stuff. Your claim that "you cannot call something a budget gaming ANYTHING, if it fails at playing even one game" is completely ridiculous. Just absurd. Of course you can call it a budget gaming CPU even if there is a handful of games it can't run smoothly. Just like an 8600 GS didn't suddenly cease to be a budget gaming GPU the day Crysis was released.

 

I know Intel is almost certainly not going to put a (much) better iGPU on a Pentium. That doesn't mean they couldn't, or that it wouldn't be a useful product.

 

You are not serious are you? You want to say that 1 specific model that came out a year and half ago holds 1% of "Pentium market share" that's been existing for 23 years? Yes it's been selling like crazy but seriously? 1%?

 

And we both know there are other Pentium models that were manufactured in much bigger numbers, namely Core 2 Duos that are still used in many small and big companies.

 

You are not serious are you? You want to twist my statement that absurdly?

 

And no, people don't generally have their Pentiums from the 90s still running, least of all in gaming systems.

 

Market share is a measure of what's selling today, not what sold 23 years ago.

 

Also, what on Earth are you talking about with Core 2 Duo? Where exactly in the name "Core 2 Duo" does it say Pentium?

[Bouzoo]

You are not serious are you? You want to twist my statement that absurdly?

 

And no, people don't generally have their Pentiums from the 90s still running, least of all in gaming systems.

 

Market share is a measure of what's selling today, not what sold 23 years ago.

 

Also, what on Earth are you talking about with Core 2 Duo? Where exactly in the name "Core 2 Duo" does it say Pentium?

 

Sorry, meant to write Dual Core, not C2D. Mea culpa. 

Anyway, you said most common Pentium out there. Twisting or not, it means, most common Pentium out there, which it is not. If you meant most commom since it came out, I'm still gonna say no because only gamers/overclockers are only gonna buy it, and we are still a minority and always will be. And I'm quite sure most people don't buy CPUs on Amazon. 

Afaik market share is taking everything in account, that't how it's always been done. That's why we still see Win XP when looking at Windows market share, or Gingerbread when looking at android. 

But this is me nitpicking so no need to go in this semantics argument any deeper.

[Prysin]

@Sakkura

 

people bitch about FX having poor minimums and whatnot. So why are you defending a CPU that is notably worse in minimum FPS, even when OCd, then a Athlon 860k??

A dual core is fine for simple tasks, but modern games are increasingly becoming more and more multi-threaded. It is no longer a question whether the game itself simply support multi-threading, infact more and more titles NEED multi-threading, because without it CPU bottlenecks are bound to happen.

 

A pentium G3258 is only "gr8 m8" because it can be overclocked. In terms of gaming, no other pentium is even worth using for AAA games because at stock, no pentium (including the G3258) cannot play games properly. The minimum FPS and lag spikes will ruin the experience.

Overclocked, the G3258 does better, but it still struggles.

 

Funnily enough, the G3258 would probably do fine with a Z97 board and 2400MHz dual channel DDR3, as this would help increase the minimums to a degree over running 1333 or 1600MHz. However. most people seem to favor those B81/85 boards because of their lower cost but still ample OC headroom (for a Pentium its enough). However these boards cannot run more then 1600MHz RAM. So minimums on the G3258 is bound to be shit.

 

The G3258 simply has met its expiration date in terms of gaming. 2015 was the last year it would be possible to comfortably use it for gaming. Today and onwards in the future, games will need more then two threads to operate smoothly, and the G3258 cannot supply that. It simply CAN NOT.

 

Stop beating a dead horse.

[MageTank]

The G3258 makes up more than 1% of the Pentiums on that page, even if you freaking count all the tray vs. retail versions of the same chips and all the things that are no longer available at retail. And obviously we're not talking about the number of models, but the number of actual CPUs being sold (or in use, if you must).

 

I haven't said it redefined the market, please stop lying. It changed the market by attracting attention in a way Pentium SKUs haven't done in a long time. The fact that it's just a one-off and the change won't last doesn't mean the change didn't happen.

 

The G3258 is not really a special edition, it's an anniversary edition. Special editions typically have a limited production run, that's not the case with the anniversary edition.

 

Oh the GT 730 isn't a gaming card, but it's marketed based on its gaming performance? Well then it must not be a gaming card! What fantastic logic. You failed to take into account what I just explained to you: The GT 730 is not just a multimedia card, because it's too expensive for that role. You want display outputs, you go down the product stack as far as possible - GT 720, GT 610, even the GT 210. Plus similar options from AMD.

 

I've provided evidence that it runs well in GTA V, it's not my fault it doesn't suit your argument. And sure, there are a few other games where it doesn't run well. But those are a tiny subset of the games out there. When you buy budget stuff, you can't expect everything to run well. But you get all the less CPU-intensive games, ie. most stuff. Your claim that "you cannot call something a budget gaming ANYTHING, if it fails at playing even one game" is completely ridiculous. Just absurd. Of course you can call it a budget gaming CPU even if there is a handful of games it can't run smoothly. Just like an 8600 GS didn't suddenly cease to be a budget gaming GPU the day Crysis was released.

 

I know Intel is almost certainly not going to put a (much) better iGPU on a Pentium. That doesn't mean they couldn't, or that it wouldn't be a useful product.

Okay, i was mistaken. The G3258 does not make up 1% of Pentiums. It makes up 0.005952% of all Pentiums. After all, there are 168 different models. Also, if you read the context of my sentence, you would know I was speaking literally when i said "99% of pentiums are not the G3258". I have no idea how I could have made that more obvious, without including a crude drawing to go with it. Now that we've gotten the math out of the way, lets address the rest of your wall of text and get down to the bottom of why you are wrong.

 

First of all, I am not a liar. My use of the word "redefine" is 100% correct, as I paired them with "market segments". You said the G3258 changed the Pentium's market. Does that not fall in line with my use of the statement "redefined its market segment"?

 

 

The Pentium G3258 very obviously changed the market for Pentium CPUs. It got a heck of a lot of attention. There is still a considerable amount of attention on it to this day - a thread on the front page of /r/buildapc right now, for example..

 

Oh, and let me pick out this hilarious part of your wall of text. 

 

I haven't said it redefined the market, please stop lying. It changed the market by attracting attention in a way Pentium SKUs haven't done in a long time. The fact that it's just a one-off and the change won't last doesn't mean the change didn't happen.

This is the most absurd claim i've seen in a while. For something to change the market, it means the change must hold for future generations. Hence the word "change". It changed nothing. The Pentiums that immediately followed it, were locked down exactly like the ones that came before it. No change was made. 

 

Also, you have completely confused "Special Edition" and "Limited Edition". Perhaps that is why it has yet to sink in that this G3258 is not a normal pentium, and does not speak for all pentiums when one uses the term "pentium". "All pentium's are gaming CPU's, ESPECIALLY the G3258". Yeah, and my Athlon 2400+ is still a gaming CPU because it can play a 10 year old MMO. 

 

Face it friend. You generalized all Pentiums because of a single overclockable pentium. You have clearly never owned one, and yet you argue with a man that has owned not one, but TWO overclocked Pentiums, both of which failed to play some of the latest AAA titles. 

 

As for the GT 730, how is my logic flawed? I said it is marketed as a multimedia card. Nvidia's Official website lists it as such. Same with EVGA and MSI. I included the "3x the performance of integrated graphics" bit, because it was also included. The price of a product has nothing to do with its intended purpose. By your logic, there is no reason for the Titan X to cost $1000 because its just a gaming card. It lacks the raw compute power that the Kepler Tesla's/Titan's had to be anything else. 

 

"I provided outdated information from one source that the game runs fine". Let me show you how things are going down AFTER the patches that broke dual cores forever in GTA 5. Oh, and don't just say "don't patch it then" because then you can't play it online. 

 

 

 

Plenty more video's, just don't want to flood this wall of text with them. I've even tried every fix listed in all of those videos, which is mostly videos about Nvidia's frame skipping, or creating an ini file to disable HT, or "use high priority on the game and close the rockstar launcher after opening the client". None of it worked.

 

You keep saying the G3258 is a gaming CPU. I'll be over here knowing it is not, seeing as I have actually used one. Actually, i used a Pentium that was better than the G3258 in every single aspect, and it was not enough to make Elder Scrolls Online a smooth experience. My little brother complained about his 4.2ghz on the latest WoW patch. So even for MMO's, the Pentium is starting to lose it's appeal. 

 

In summary: I am right. It is pointless for Intel to add stronger iGPU to a Pentium, when the Pentium itself is the bottleneck, not the iGPU. Before you try to run this argument into the ground, i suggest you actually go out and buy a G3258 so you can at least have some experience to draw from.

[Prysin]

@MageTank

you are correct in the "go buy one" part.

 

i tried to simulate a G3258 with my i7... doesnt really work as the L3 cache screws up things. You really gotta go out there and waste your money to see HOW shit it really is.

[Guest Kloaked]

 

 

If I didn't know the meaning of rekt before this, I do now.

[MageTank]

@MageTank

you are correct in the "go buy one" part.

 

i tried to simulate a G3258 with my i7... doesnt really work as the L3 cache screws up things. You really gotta go out there and waste your money to see HOW shit it really is.

Even faster memory isn't enough to help Pentiums. I am by no means a ram expert, but i am not a novice either. My DDR3 kit was 2133mhz, but super tight. My DDR4 is 3200mhz, and super tight. My DDR4 bandwidth absolutely dwarfed my DDR3 bandwidth. Same with my CPU clock. I went from 4.2ghz (G3258) to 4.75ghz (G4400) and over 1000mhz on ram, and nothing. That's after the IPC increase of Skylake too. ESO was a hot bag of mess, lagging severely in Wrothgar raids. The moment i swapped out to a 6600T, even at stock, it was fine. A quad core at 2.7ghz (3.5ghz boost) ran better on an MMO than a 4.75ghz dual core. Before anyone says it, my windows installation is barebones. No TS, no Skype. It's my benchmark PC, and i keep it extremely clean. It only has 8GB of ram (Will be changed to 32GB soon enough) but that is not the bottleneck just yet, at least not in the games i personally test.

 

I am not against the G3258 at all. It is an amazing chip for what it is. What is it exactly? A super cheap overclocking chip, for newbies to learn how to OC without frying more expensive chips. It is also a great stopgap for people waiting to buy a more expensive chip, but lack the immediate funds to do so. It is also a nice, low TDP chip for HTPC's that can still be OC'd if base performance is not enough. Even when highly OC'd, the thing does not get hot due to lack of AVX and other hot instruction sets. However, I am against the notion that these chips are recommended for gaming CPU's. Even if the word "budget" is attached. Nobody talks about its shortcomings until AFTER someone has bought it and complained about it. Then they are met with the "It's a $70 chip, what did you expect?" response. I'll tell you what they expected. They expected their budget GAMING chip, to be capable of gaming. Instead, people talked them into a budget multimedia/office chip that is pseudo-capable of gaming, and passed it off as a gamer chip. This needs to stop already.

 

Adding a stronger iGPU to these chips will only further complicate things for people, making them think the chip is something it is not. Intel already knows how to properly segment the market. Why this argument continues is beyond me.

[Prysin]

Even faster memory isn't enough to help Pentiums. I am by no means a ram expert, but i am not a novice either. My DDR3 kit was 2133mhz, but super tight. My DDR4 is 3200mhz, and super tight. My DDR4 bandwidth absolutely dwarfed my DDR3 bandwidth. Same with my CPU clock. I went from 4.2ghz (G3258) to 4.75ghz (G4400) and over 1000mhz on ram, and nothing. That's after the IPC increase of Skylake too. ESO was a hot bag of mess, lagging severely in Wrothgar raids. The moment i swapped out to a 6600T, even at stock, it was fine. A quad core at 2.7ghz (3.5ghz boost) ran better on an MMO than a 4.75ghz dual core. Before anyone says it, my windows installation is barebones. No TS, no Skype. It's my benchmark PC, and i keep it extremely clean. It only has 8GB of ram (Will be changed to 32GB soon enough) but that is not the bottleneck just yet, at least not in the games i personally test.

 

I am not against the G3258 at all. It is an amazing chip for what it is. What is it exactly? A super cheap overclocking chip, for newbies to learn how to OC without frying more expensive chips. It is also a great stopgap for people waiting to buy a more expensive chip, but lack the immediate funds to do so. It is also a nice, low TDP chip for HTPC's that can still be OC'd if base performance is not enough. Even when highly OC'd, the thing does not get hot due to lack of AVX and other hot instruction sets. However, I am against the notion that these chips are recommended for gaming CPU's. Even if the word "budget" is attached. Nobody talks about its shortcomings until AFTER someone has bought it and complained about it. Then they are met with the "It's a $70 chip, what did you expect?" response. I'll tell you what they expected. They expected their budget GAMING chip, to be capable of gaming. Instead, people talked them into a budget multimedia/office chip that is pseudo-capable of gaming, and passed it off as a gamer chip. This needs to stop already.

 

Adding a stronger iGPU to these chips will only further complicate things for people, making them think the chip is something it is not. Intel already knows how to properly segment the market. Why this argument continues is beyond me.

yup

 

i mean, the Athlon 860k isnt a "godsent gift" either. But for the same price, it gives you near i3 performance for nearly half the price of an actual i3. It also comes with AVX 1.1, AES and some other more modern instructions/extensions.

 

So why people are so obsessed with this shitty dual core, i dont get it. every benchmark it is featured in, it shows great averages (due to max FPS) and a minimum FPS that is often worse then most mid-range laptops with Intel HD iGPUs produce...

[kuddlesworth9419]

When Zen fails are we all going to say goodbye to AMD and is AMD going to give up or will they still continue to struggle. It's like watching an old cat try and clean itself while you know you need to put it down but you can't because you love that damn cat. AMD either get your shit together or GTFO. We love you but that love only goes so far.

[PlayStation 2]

And it's obvious that the G3258 changed the market for Pentiums. Pentiums were looked down on before that arrived, and it sparked a lot of interest that persists to this day. 

Hey bub. Ever heard of the Penitum G2120? Back in 2012/2013, one of the best budget gaming CPUs you could get before the AMD Athlon X4 750/60K came to town.

There are other Intel Core i-based Pentiums, you know. The G3258 was not the one that changed the lineup, it simply added to it.