Smoking Barrels - LTT's Unnofficial Gun Club!

[Statik]

 

7 minutes ago, fpo said:

More like tedious. I need 4 references & I need to setup an interview, have a special background check. 

I have to wait for the police department to call me back to setup an appointment which is likely going to happen next year to the month. 

 

It would be easier for me to buy a gun across state lines & illegally bring it back with me than get a pistol here. 

Fair. Granted I'm not from the US and I don't think those things are out of line at all, the wait is annoying for sure, but I still agree with the process.

 

9 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

According to the 2nd amendment, there shouldn't be any process.  The laws only affect law abiding citizens.  Criminals will carry no matter what rules or restrictions are in place.  We need nation wide Constitutional Carry.

Yeah I'm not American, so I'm not read up on that, nor do I care, nor do I care to turn it into a political argument and get things shut down.

 

I just think that in my opinion there should be a process, an extensive one, and training. That's all.

[Jito463]

2 minutes ago, Statik said:

I just think that in my opinion there should be a process, an extensive one, and training. That's all.

You're certainly entitled to have your own opinion, I simply disagree with it.

[atxcyclist]

2 hours ago, Jito463 said:

You're certainly entitled to have your own opinion, I simply disagree with it.

Imagine needing 4 references, a written test, fees, and an interview in order to vote or have a jury trial.

[SansVarnic]

9 hours ago, Statik said:

I just think that in my opinion there should be a process, an extensive one, and training. That's all.

Having worked with Law enforcement, Served in the Army and other additional things, I understand your position. There is no need for such and extensive requirement though.

If a society (and this used to be the standard) is introduced to and exposed to firearms in the proper way there would a very small issue here. What I mean by this is, I was brought up with firearms, I knew at a young age what and how dangerous and how useful a firearm can be just like I know how dangerous farm equipment is which btw is far more dangerous. But anyhow, there are steps in place, every firearm sold legally in the US cannot be handed over without a NICs check and this process works very well. It has been proven many many times.

A firearm is a tool... nothing else. Society makes it out to be so much more than its not.

 

If there is to be any kind of training to be had, it should be on how to make a good judgement call. This is Unfortunetly not entirely possible, as it should have been a part of the raising of a child by the parent. If someone is going to make the choice to commit a crime, the firearm training or anything is not going to prevent this from happening. Anyone that has the want to commit the crime will do so regardless of the situation, the available weapon or the item sought after. 

Black markets exist and criminal elements do not follow the law. The percentage of crime (with a firearm) rarely ever traces back to a legally obtained firearm. There are both CDC and FBI studies that show cities and towns with higher legal firearm ownership have less firearm crimes occurring. Not very smart to attack a home with a firearm owner.

Most Firearm owners know and understand there is a necessity to practice and learn proper use. Forcing someone to do something to be allowed to exercise a right is by definition infringing that right. Making sure the purchaser is capable of exercising that right i.e. felon or not is pretty much the only thing that ought to exist. We do not require anyone to do anything before having a baby and that is much much more a larger responsibility than buying and owning a firearm.

 

The second amendment was not written to go hunting, it was written so the people could defend itself from government. 

The first amendment was not written to speak ones mind, it was written to speak out against government tyranny without fear of repression.

 

I better stop myself.... /shrug

 

6 hours ago, atxcyclist said:

Imagine needing 4 references, a written test, fees, and an interview in order to vote or have a jury trial.

Yeah this is going to far and there no need to be facetious or sarcastic about this.

[Guest]

Back on topic... I have some questions on electronic sights.

 

Lord forgive me for I have sinned. Lord Kalashnikov, I put a 1913 rail on my AK....

 

Anyone recommend a 1-200$ red dot like sight that can withstand 7.62x39? I don't expect to throw it off a building & work fine.

 

I accidentally ordered an airsoft ACOG which some guys say holds zero. Probably on 223 as it's pretty miniscule. (Literally all chinese fiber optic acog clones come from the same factory.) If it's not good for real steel it'll end up on my airsoft. Anyone any experience?

 

I don't really want to pay $500 for an EO TECH (or 1k for an ACOG) but if you guys really think I should buy once cry once, I can. However, if there's some recommended 7.62x39 rated electronic sights for less, it's good to buy smart. More money for ammo.

 

 

Only reason I want to put attachments is because I was trained to use them. Before that I could care less.

I just need an electric sight, peq 15, & a flashlight. I already have the bayonet.

If anyone recommends any PEQ 15 alternatives, I'll check them out, but aside from that, I may just get the PEQ 15 for the price it begs. I'm more inclined to pay its premium.

 

PS:
Anyone ever hear of BARSKA? I have this one but got it second hand from an airsoft kid like 10 years ago.

Spoiler

https://www.barska.com/2x30mm-multi-rail-electro-sight-magnifier-barska

Are these good for real guns? I've seen plenty of sub $100 red dot sights & plenty have shattered from airsoft use. I question their legitimacy for real use.

 

 

Thanks!

[atxcyclist]

7 minutes ago, fpo said:

Back on topic... I have some questions on electronic sights.

 

Lord forgive me for I have sinned. Lord Kalashnikov, I put a 1913 rail on my AK....

 

Anyone recommend a 1-200$ red dot like sight that can withstand 7.62x39? I don't expect to throw it off a building & work fine.

 

I accidentally ordered an airsoft ACOG which some guys say holds zero. Probably on 223 as it's pretty miniscule. (Literally all chinese fiber optic acog clones come from the same factory.) If it's not good for real steel it'll end up on my airsoft. Anyone any experience?

 

I don't really want to pay $500 for an EO TECH (or 1k for an ACOG) but if you guys really think I should buy once cry once, I can. However, if there's some recommended 7.62x39 rated electronic sights for less, it's good to buy smart. More money for ammo.

 

 

Only reason I want to put attachments is because I was trained to use them. Before that I could care less.

I just need an electric sight, peq 15, & a flashlight. I already have the bayonet.

If anyone recommends any PEQ 15 alternatives, I'll check them out, but aside from that, I may just get the PEQ 15 for the price it begs. I'm more inclined to pay its premium.

 

PS:
Anyone ever hear of BARSKA? I have this one but got it second hand from an airsoft kid like 10 years ago.

  Reveal hidden contents

https://www.barska.com/2x30mm-multi-rail-electro-sight-magnifier-barska

Are these good for real guns? I've seen plenty of sub $100 red dot sights & plenty have shattered from airsoft use. I question their legitimacy for real use.

 

 

Thanks!

I hear the SIG red dots are good, don't know if they're in that price range though. Primary Arms as well. I put a cheap red dot on an SKS I had many years ago, it was good for almost one whole range session.

 

Barska is not amazing, I'd put one on a .22LR but that's about it.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

I hear the SIG red dots are good, don't know if they're in that price range though.

I think 1 mini red dot is like 150~ and the rest are 2~300 which is my general range. However they're made in china, not Germany which puzzles me why they'd rebrand products.

2 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

Primary Arms as well.

They're also decently priced. Is AIM or NC STAR good? Or are they unknown to you? They may be airsoft.

2 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

I put a cheap red dot on an SKS I had many years ago, it was good for almost one whole range session.

Good to know! I'm guessing it was at least a metal one that looked like the call of duty red dot.

You wouldn't have wasted your time nor money on the plastic ones.

2 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

Barska is not amazing, I'd put one on a .22LR but that's about it.

Ahh okay. It's currently on my airsoft, so it'll stay there.

[atxcyclist]

Just now, fpo said:

I think 1 mini red dot is like 150~ and the rest are 2~300 which is my general range. However they're made in china, not Germany which puzzles me why they'd rebrand products.

They're also decently priced. Is AIM or NC STAR good? Or are they unknown to you? They may be airsoft.

Good to know! I'm guessing it was at least a metal one that looked like the call of duty red dot.

You wouldn't have wasted your time nor money on the plastic ones.

Ahh okay. It's currently on my airsoft, so it'll stay there.

SIG makes stuff everywhere, but their quality is generally really good regardless of where. I have a Whiskey 3 that's a pretty good scope, I believe it's made in The Philippines. 

 

I've never used an AIM, haven't really heard anything about them either. NC Star is actually the brand of the red dot I had on the SKS, would not recommend.

 

 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

SIG makes stuff everywhere, but their quality is generally really good regardless of where. I have a Whiskey 3 that's a pretty good scope, I believe it's made in The Philippines. 

 

I've never used an AIM, haven't really heard anything about them either. NC Star is actually the brand of the red dot I had on the SKS, would not recommend.

 

 

I thought they were an airsoft company...

 

I'll look into the SIG stuff & primary arms, but I'm interested to see what else people might say is good to compare different options.

Think they're good for AK47s?

 

If I'm not mistaken AK47 has a lot more recoil than 5.56 so may demand more resilience.

 

Thanks for the information! I appreciate it.

[atxcyclist]

3 minutes ago, fpo said:

I thought they were an airsoft company...

 

I'll look into the SIG stuff & primary arms, but I'm interested to see what else people might say is good to compare different options.

Think they're good for AK47s?

 

If I'm not mistaken AK47 has a lot more recoil than 5.56 so may demand more resilience.

 

Thanks for the information! I appreciate it.

I'd imagine they would be good for an AK. Red dots, since they're not eye-relief sensitive, get put on revolvers with rails all the time. Something like a .44 mag revolver will kick a scope around quite a lot.

[Statik]

14 hours ago, SansVarnic said:

Having worked with Law enforcement, Served in the Army and other additional things, I understand your position. There is no need for such and extensive requirement though.

As someone who's currently serving I think I disagree. I understand your opinion, and while I can't speak on the 2nd amendment, I can speak to Canadian federal laws. Here there's two separate licenses;

1. Non-restricted (think hunting, i.e. shotguns, centerfire rifles, etc)

2. Restricted (AR's -albiet not anymore, handguns, etc).

 

Both require separate courses (multiple days each), that cover everything from rules/regulations, to care, to physically handling firearms. Then you need the certification from the course, and an extensive application (3 references you've known for over 3 years, plus some more info), and while it's definitely an extensive process, and I wish it could be expedited, I completely agree with the process, I think it mitigates a lot of issues and bad apples.

 

However, while I believe everyone should be able to access firearms, I don't know if I believe owning firearms should be a right, so maybe that's where our opinions differ.

Quote

If a society (and this used to be the standard) is introduced to and exposed to firearms in the proper way there would a very small issue here. What I mean by this is, I was brought up with firearms, I knew at a young age what and how dangerous and how useful a firearm can be just like I know how dangerous farm equipment is which btw is far more dangerous.

 

A firearm is a tool... nothing else. Society makes it out to be so much more than its not.

I completely agree with this, and I preach the same on the regular. However, I think unfortunately society has obviously moved away from this state of mind/upbringing, so as a result the vast majority of the population has zero experience with firearms, so that's where I think some extra measures may have to be in place to educate, and "train" people, as well as weed out possible dangers.

Quote

-snip-

Trust me, you're preaching to the choir with that part. Canadian government just made thousands of different firearms illegal overnight, where as there's only been 1 mass shooting in Canadian history with a legally purchased firearm, and it was in the 80's.

 

I think it just comes down to us being from different countries and having different opinions, and rules on firearms. I'm a huge firearms advocate, and I support things like the 2nd amendment, but being from a different country with very different gun culture, I don't believe where I live, owning a firearm is an inherent right, it's treated as more of a privilege, which I both agree and disagree with.

 

Regardless, it's a very interesting conversation and I'm sure we could both go on for hours on the topic, but I think just coming from different countries/cultures, and having much different local/federal laws, our opinions on the matter are different.

 

For what it's worth I think a hybrid of American/Canadian gun laws would be the the perfect combo, but I'm sure plenty would disagree.

 

[Guest]

 

19 minutes ago, Statik said:

However, I think unfortunately society has obviously moved away from this state of mind/upbringing,

Reasons to live in Russia:

 

[Statik]

11 minutes ago, fpo said:

 

Reasons to live in Russia:

 

Yeah I don't exactly know the origin of that video, but gun laws in Russia are actually surprisingly strict.

 

In fact much more strict than almost any European country, and definitely more strict than the Americas.

 

 

You can't even own a firearm with a rifled bore for 5 years after your initial license.

[Crunchy Dragon]

15 minutes ago, fpo said:

 

Reasons to live in Russia:

 

On today's list of things I really wish I had learned in high school...

[Guest]

Anyone else have input on optics for AK47s? 

[Real_PhillBert]

22 hours ago, fpo said:

Anyone else have input on optics for AK47s? 

For less expensive options Holosun, or sig optics are probably going to be your best bet. They're all Chinese, but at least not complete trash.

 

If you want to sprinkle on a few more bucks you could get into something like a Trijicon MRO, but I think those are running around $450 right now, but occasionally come on sale for ~$350.

[Real_PhillBert]

Looks like these (relatively) quick F4 times are going to get me again.

 

Ordering a Rugged Razor since wait times are down to 3-6mo. 3-6mo still sucks a lot, and is a far cry from the 28 days that my latest F1 was processed at, but I know a guy who waited 19 months for his F4 on a KAC suppressor about two years ago.

 

 

EDIT:

 

Ordered:

 

[Guest]

On 9/8/2020 at 9:58 AM, Real_PhillBert said:

For less expensive options Holosun, or sig optics are probably going to be your best bet. They're all Chinese, but at least not complete trash.

Are they good or just not worthless?

On 9/8/2020 at 9:58 AM, Real_PhillBert said:

If you want to sprinkle on a few more bucks you could get into something like a Trijicon MRO, but I think those are running around $450 right now, but occasionally come on sale for ~$350.

If I go over the $350 price point, I'm going all out on an EOTech. I think they're the coolest red dot. (holographic if the difference matters) If I go over $500 range, I'm going to an ACOG at over $1,000 US.

 

[Sarra]

Here's my most recent experience:

 

I walked into the local gun shop.

 

"Excuse me, do you have any Mossburg MVP's in 5.56?"

 

GS employee: "No, sorry, they're on permanent back order."

 

Me: "Oh." *Sad Kitty Face*

 

Me: "Do you have ANYTHING bolt action in a 5.56 or .223?"

 

GSE: "No, sorry." *Also a Sad Kitty Face*

 

Me: "Well, at least you've got tons of .357 mag revolvers in stock..."

 

Random guy walking by with his 6 yo daughter, 8 yo son, and a very bored looking wife bursts out laughing at that.

 

At least I was able to buy some road flares for $60 for a set of 4. >_>

[Real_PhillBert]

14 hours ago, fpo said:

Are they good or just not worthless?

The Holosun optics are pretty solid, more so than Sig optics. I'm just not a huge fan of anything on a defensive firearm being made in China. 

 

14 hours ago, fpo said:

If I go over the $350 price point, I'm going all out on an EOTech. I think they're the coolest red dot. (holographic if the difference matters) If I go over $500 range, I'm going to an ACOG at over $1,000 US.

My only bitch with EoTech is the shit battery life. I'm a huge fan of having optics that you can simply leave on 24/7. And they had that whole zero shift issue in changes of temperature, but they should have that sorted by now at least. 

 

ACOGs are a solid option.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Real_PhillBert said:

The Holosun optics are pretty solid, more so than Sig optics. I'm just not a huge fan of anything on a defensive firearm being made in China. 

Ahh okay. 

I still have my front sight Incase my sight goes down. That & all my airsoft practice of shooting guns without looking down the sights. 

At the short distances in my house, i have confidence in my hip firing. 

3 hours ago, Real_PhillBert said:

My only bitch with EoTech is the shit battery life. I'm a huge fan of having optics that you can simply leave on 24/7. And they had that whole zero shift issue in changes of temperature, but they should have that sorted by now at least. 

Oh? I thought EO Tech were really good. Glad I didn’t blow $500+ on one. 

3 hours ago, Real_PhillBert said:

ACOGs are a solid option.

Should I just save the money for one of these or is the Holosun a pretty good option? 

 

Several YouTube “experts” seem to have faith in it so much that they say it’s worth it over the Aimpoint originals. 

[Real_PhillBert]

6 minutes ago, fpo said:

Should I just save the money for one of these or is the Holosun a pretty good option? 

That's a hard call to make as they're pretty different animals. 

 

Something like the Holosun 503 is a good little red dot, and will serve you fine, but it's not going to be "bombproof" like a Trijicon MRO or Aimpoint T1/T2. Although it's not in their price range either. 

 

As for the ACOG, like everything it has it's good side and bad side. They're incredibly durable, don't require batteries (depending on the model), and add a bit of magnification which can be useful. However they are expensive, and have pretty shit eye relief, that's why you pretty much only see the 4x ACOG's mounted as far back on the receiver as they can get, and people like LaRue and Geissele make cantilever mounts to push them even farther back. Where traditional red dots (Holosun, Eotech, Trijicon MRO, Aimpoints) all have "unlimited" eye relief. 

 

I've been wanting to get a LVPO, something like the Vortex 1-10x24 or Trijicon 1-8x28 as these kind of solve the eye relief issue, but at the cost of money and weight. I am really looking hard at picking up a Vortex Razor 1-10x24 for my 16" LaRue when I move the Triijicon MRO from that rifle to my new 12" ADM SBR when I finally get that finished, but it's a $2k optic, which hurts. 

 

You also have to take into account what you're putting it on, putting a $1200 ACOG on a $450 rifle is perhaps a not so optimal pairing. And on the flip side, a $175 Holosun on a KAC SR-15 is equally head tilt worthy. 

 

I'm not sure I really answered any questions, but hopefully it was at least helpful. 

[vf1000ride]

1 hour ago, fpo said:

Oh? I thought EO Tech were really good. Glad I didn’t blow $500+ on one. 

Should I just save the money for one of these or is the Holosun a pretty good option? 

 

My Eotech EXPS-2 is currently back at the factory for warranty repairs.  Sitting in the safe and not being touched one of the mirrors inside the unit fell out of it's mount and was just loose and rattling around inside the unit.  Not the greatest testament to being a strong product.  I purchased a Holosun HS503CU as a stand in replacement and depending on how well it works may become the primary sight on my AR. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Real_PhillBert said:

That's a hard call to make as they're pretty different animals. 

~snip~

Yeah. As of right now, I just want to put something on my AK. ($700~ so mid range rifle)

 

It would be nice to put it on an AR-15 if I get one. (Lighter ammo)

 

I won’t be jumping out of tanks & crashing my car with it on the daily. 

 

Mostly seeking a “good sight, but if apocalypse happens, it’ll still be decent sight Incase I drop it or hit something with my gun. Needs to hold a zero for when I shoot an AK.”

 

You seem to be saying “it’ll do most of that, above average stress; I personally would rather these name brands.” If I’m understanding you correctly. 

 

EDIT

I think the MRO you recommended was around $300~ range. Depending on the prices and qualities I might go Trijicon red dot. Save $1k. 

END EDIT

 

12 minutes ago, vf1000ride said:

My Eotech

Oof...

I might stick with TRIJICON then if I go high end. 

Only problems I’ve heard with them is “the tritium half lifed enough to be a little dim after 15 years.” 

[Real_PhillBert]

40 minutes ago, fpo said:

Yeah. As of right now, I just want to put something on my AK. ($700~ so mid range rifle)

 

It would be nice to put it on an AR-15 if I get one. (Lighter ammo)

 

I won’t be jumping out of tanks & crashing my car with it on the daily. 

 

Mostly seeking a “good sight, but if apocalypse happens, it’ll still be decent sight Incase I drop it or hit something with my gun. Needs to hold a zero for when I shoot an AK.”

 

You seem to be saying “it’ll do most of that, above average stress; I personally would rather these name brands.” If I’m understanding you correctly. 

 

EDIT

I think the MRO you recommended was around $300~ range. Depending on the prices and qualities I might go Trijicon red dot. Save $1k. 

END EDIT

I think for what you want, the holosun 403 or 503 would be a really good fit. Sturdy enough to handle recoil and you dont have to be too worried about it breaking in half if you do knock the rifle over in the safe while also not spending a ton of money. 

 

The MRO is a few more bucks and accomplishes the same task although is going to be more robust. Although you may not necessarily need that either, so that extra ~$100 might be better spent on something else, like ammo. 

 

Basically you've nailed what I'm saying, the Holosun will do perfectly for you, or me if I'm honest; I just like really really unnecessarily heavy duty stuff. If you do decide to go with the MRO, you wont regret it as it will likely last damn near forever.