[The Escapist] Apple removes games from its online store due to use of Confederate Flags.

[The_Strict_Nein]

I mean, you still have the Nazi Flag in German games. If anything, ban that first.

 

You can't censor history.

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

Current history books don't do anything they talk about justice, it is extremely simplified. This is dangerous when history is incredibly complicated.

 

"History is written by the victors" - Winston Churchill

[1823alex]

I got accused a few times of being anti-semitic in uni when saying the Holocaust was more than only about Jews.(11 million were killed in holocaust, 6 million were Jews. What about those 5 million?)

 

Nowadays, it's so easy to offend someone. Scary.

TIL that 5 million that were killed in the Holocaust weren't Jewish. But my opinion still stands I didn't really fact check it all that much, it was mostly generalized knowledge and my personal opinion. But people do get offended WAY to easily.

[moustacheman]

fun fact, the stars and bars represent racism just as much as the confederate flag. Lets all remember that the Union did not go to war to emancipate the blacks, nor to remove bondage. The confederate flag represents a resentment towards industrialisation, attacks on slavery expansion and declining political power.  the confederate flag was flown by almost a million of non slave owning southerners who fought a war on their soil for their perceived liberties. 

[jos]

I hope i can start a shop with anything Confederate Flags.. Business without competition

[d3sl91]

Instead of educating the general public to understand history, we now teach a simplified abridged version of history, like it doesn't matter. 

 

 

Rather than think rationally, we have people making knee-jerk decisions and emotionally charged changes. And then we have people-pleasing companies an politicians who will do anything to gain popularity and MONEY. 

 

Don't let any of this fool you. While some may be genuinely concerned, many just want your money, and think making a fuss about how they "arent selling this anymore" makes them so great. 

 

No. 

 

Rather, if its so bad to sell it..... why did it take a murder for your company to stop selling something?

[Ekpyrosis]

I mean, you still have the Nazi Flag in German games. If anything, ban that first.

 

You can't censor history.

You have not in Germany (yeah, Wolfenstein: The New Ordered was censored here). I seems like every country wants to whitewash its own history.

Also please distinguish between German games (i.e. games made in Germany, I don't know any of them that has Nazi flags tbh) and games that take place in Germany.

[evilarceus]

The games they removed seems like games I wouldn't buy IMO.

[Anult]

I don't know what this is supposed to mean. But given who 'liked' it, I take it their intentions are sour.

 

I was just making a point about how on this forum, threads such as this degenerate quickly into nothing but blind fanboyism and flaming. I have seen it happen multiple times and I know at some stage it will happen again. That's all, there's nothing more to it than that really.

 

Luckily, nothing like that has happened on this thread so far, and I hope it stays that way for the better.

 

EDIT:

 

Regarding the topic in general, I wish to add that I am not a fan of companies setting a 'moral compass' in order to please a subset of people. It just seems shady to me.

[spartaman64]

i can see why people dont want a confederate flag flying over a state building but in games meant to portray history really?

[Lewellyn]

Ha ha ha, Reddit:

 

1. Rile up SJW for yet another retarded cause
2. Anger racist idiots with removal of their symbol
3. Anger intellectuals with removal of legitimate history
4. Anger libertarians and progressives with censorship
5. Pass TPP unnoticed

[Dabombinable]

 

Ha ha ha, Reddit:

 

1. Rile up SJW for yet another retarded cause
2. Anger racist idiots with removal of their symbol
3. Anger intellectuals with removal of legitimate history
4. Anger libertarians and progressives with censorship
5. Pass TPP unnoticed

 

Its true though.....

[That Norwegian Guy]

TL;DR It's a double standard you can have a WW2 game with swastikas or a full on simulation game of the Nazi party but, you can't have a flag from 150 years ago.

 

War Thunder doesn't use swastikas on German vehicles. And it'll delete any custom skins that have them and give warnings to the uploaders.

 

Not defending anyone btw, I think this is 110% idiotic.

[1823alex]

War Thunder doesn't use swastikas on German vehicles. And it'll delete any custom skins that have them and give warnings to the uploaders.

 

Not defending anyone btw, I think this is 110% idiotic.

I wasn't just talking about WarThunder there are other simulation games.

[That Norwegian Guy]

I wasn't just talking about WarThunder there are other simulation games.

 

I know, just giving an example of one that does censor.

[Swndlr]

Eh, I guess I can kinda see both sides of the argument. Although some people will see Apple going overboard for doing it, theyre kinda stuck between a rock and hard place. I want to guess that it is a more difficult call to make if youre actually working at Apple and have say in what happens.

[stconquest]

I am not a historian and I really could not give two shits about the civil war.  The Confederacy was a political movement, so the removal of the flag from government buildings should be a given... they lost... "G A M E  O V E R".

 

As far as Amazon, Walmart, Apple and the likes removing this Confederate symbol:  It is a social movement that is based both on political and civil situations.  They are probably trying to make a difference.  

 

I am not saying it is smart, but what these stores are doing is not censorship.  There is no Nazi threat in the USA, there is a very real threat of domestic terrorism.  When is the last time you saw a left wing nutcase?  Seriously, left wing nutcases exist but they don't seem to go around shooting innocent people and blowing up abortion clinics.  These acts are committed in large due to the propaganda put forth by right wing nutcases, to other right wing nutcases.  It is all but too common in the USA.

 

I guess what I am saying is that this is not censorship, but more a message.  That symbol is actively being used to appease like minded nutcases, please don't assume all right-wing conservatives are nut cases (they are not).  They (stores) might be just saying:  You are not going to make us part of your shit. 

[jaggysnake57]

Hitler wore a tie, we should ban ties.

 

this is a stupid analogy....would have been better if you had focused on the swastika.

 

the confederate flag stood for racism hatred, and oppression just like the swastika......but try to ban it it dangerous...you cant gloss over the parts of history you dont like and we shouldnt forget what happened. this is a stupid move and only plays into the hands of the groups that use it as a raciest symbol

[Lewellyn]

I am not a historian and I really could not give two shits about the civil war.  The Confederacy was a political movement, so the removal of the flag from government buildings should be a given... they lost... "G A M E  O V E R".

 

As far as Amazon, Walmart, Apple and the likes removing this Confederate symbol:  It is a social movement that is based both on political and civil situations.  They are probably trying to make a difference.  

 

I am not saying it is smart, but what these stores are doing is not censorship.  There is no Nazi threat in the USA, there is a very real threat of domestic terrorism.  When is the last time you saw a left wing nutcase?  Seriously, left wing nutcases exist but they don't seem to go around shooting innocent people and blowing up abortion clinics.  These acts are committed in large due to the propaganda put forth by right wing nutcases, to other right wing nutcases.  It is all but too common in the USA.

 

I guess what I am saying is that this is not censorship, but more a message.  That symbol is actively being used to appease like minded nutcases, please don't assume all right-wing conservatives are nut cases (they are not).  They (stores) might be just saying:  You are not going to make us part of your shit. 

 

There is so much crazy apologetics in your post I don't know where to start. It is censorship, by defintion. I'm not addressing the rest of the unmitigated crazy as hell you posted about "left wing crazies don't shoot people" which is obviously subversive and untrue. You might want to read over the posts in this thread where people have argued that historical depiction is not an endorsement.

 

Nothing you said is worth a damn.

[stconquest]

There is so much crazy apologist crap in your post I don't know where to start. It is censorship, by defintion. I'm not addressing the rest of the unmitigated crazy as hell you posted about "left wing crazies don't shoot people" which is obviously subversive and untrue. You might want to read over the posts in this thread where people have argued that historical depiction is not an endorsement.

 

Nothing you said is worth a damn.

 

How is it censorship?  What these stores have done is not done because of legislature.  There is no law against selling that confederate symbol anywhere in the USA.  Maybe you mean the censorship of fucking idiot ideologies... I am partly for that.

 

Sorry, why you so mad?... and so fucking wrong.

 

You really believe this "censorship" bullshit?

[Mattr567]

"The Confederate flag is bad in ALL forms? Even historical, you say? That's cool. We'll just pretend the civil war never happened." -Apple

[Lewellyn]

How is it censorship?  What these stores have done is not done because of legislature.  There is no law against selling that confederate symbol anywhere in the USA.  Maybe you mean the censorship of fucking idiot ideologies... I am partly for that.

 

Sorry, why you so mad?... and so fucking wrong.

 

They are censoring games that merely use the flag in its historical context and in no way endorse racism or the confederacy, but I'm the one that's wrong? 

 

Censorship has ALWAYS referred any institution or authority that removes unwanted media content. I do not know why so many politically immature users on this forum will continue to distort what that means or to waive the criticisms of a private corporations under an insidious guise of what the definition of censorship is.

 

Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication or other information which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient as determined by governments, media outlets, authorities or other groups or institutions.

 

Governments, private organizations and individuals may engage in censorship.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship

[stconquest]

They are censoring games that merely use the flag in its historical context and in no way endorse racism or the confederacy, but I'm the one that's wrong? 

 

Censorship has ALWAYS referred any institution or authority that removes unwanted media content. I do not know why so many politically immature users on this forum will continue to distort what that means or to waive the criticisms of a private corporations under an insidious guise of what the definition of censorship is.

 

Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication or other information which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient as determined by governments, media outlets, authorities or other groups or institutions.

 

Governments, private organizations and individuals may engage in censorship.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship

 

Politically immature, nice.  Stop acting like you know shit you do not.

 

From your source:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship

 

"There are no laws against self-censorship."

 

Politically, these entities (Walmart, Amazon, Apple, etc..) are self-censoring.  We as individuals do this all the time.  How can you be angry at these companies for exercise their right to do this?

 

You are bent of out shape because you think you are in the right, and I come along with a different viewpoint.  The people who decided to boycott the confederate symbol have every right to do so.  You can go buy your game elsewhere, or draw a fucking flag on your wall and stare at it... I really don't give a shit.

 

You are picking a fight with me because you really believe this is wrong of these companies to do.  History is not going to unravel because Civil War Generals II (or whatever) is not being sold at Apple.

 

But a clear message is being sent (no matter what I think), you are just not seeing it.  Keep your head buried in a deep hole if you want.  Deflect the nature of what is happening around the USA regarding violence all you want... there are many others just like you, you won't be alone.

[Dabombinable]

Politically immature, nice.  Stop acting like you know shit you do not.

 

From your source:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship

 

"There are no laws against self-censorship."

 

Politically, these entities (Walmart, Amazon, Apple, etc..) are self-censoring.  We as individuals do this all the time.  How can you be angry at these companies for exercise their right to do this?

 

You are bent of out shape because you think you are in the right, and I come along with a different viewpoint.  The people who decided to boycott the confederate symbol have every right to do so.  You can go buy your game elsewhere, or draw a fucking flag on your wall and stare at it... I really don't give a shit.

 

You are picking a fight with me because you really believe this is wrong of these companies to do.  History is not going to unravel because Civil War Generals II (or whatever) is not being sold at Apple.

 

But a clear message is being sent, you are just not seeing it.  Keep you head buried in a deep hole if you want.  Deflect the nature of what is happening around the USA regarding violence all you want... there are many others just like you, you won't be alone.

Some one is in denial.........censorship is censorship. No matter who does it.

[stconquest]

Some one is in denial.........censorship is censorship. No matter who does it.

 

In this case, even if it is not the smartest way, the message might be a good one.  +1 to this censorship then.