RTX 3080 relative performance data from Digital Foundry's video

[Bombastinator]

3 hours ago, straight_stewie said:

Is it possible the drivers have split?

It's my understanding that the 30 series cards have at least two hardware capabilities that the 20 series cards do not have:

• Whatever they call that "direct decompression" thing more than likely requires special hardware support
• Microsofts "Hardware GPU Scheduling" thing probably is better with dedicated hardware on the GPU, instead of just a software update.

 

This is the concerning part to me.

 

Any reasonable and experienced person is certain that Nvidia is exaggerating. All of the hardware manufacturers do at every new product release. That isn't even a question IMO. The only question is how much are they exaggerating? Are they exaggerating to the point of lying? Or are they just exaggerating to the point of marketing?

Hehe.  I am amused by The differentiation between exaggerating to the point of lying vs to the point of marketing. 
 

 

[Mister Woof]

35 minutes ago, KaitouX said:

It's not like you can realistically get it before the reviews are out, so that should be the standard for any GPU purchase. Buying without knowing the value and possible issues of the product doesn't really make sense when talking about CPUs and GPUs.

It's pretty unlikely they'll perform worse than current offerings, so barring some disastrous design flaw, it should still be worthwhile even before Tech Jesus reviews.

 

That said, of course wait for tests and never pre-order.

But guessing here doesn't seem to be too large a gamble.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

2 hours ago, leadeater said:

That's the difference here, you have direct air current blowing right in to where the CPU cooler is, AIB cards don't do this.

Sapphire disagrees...

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

[Bombastinator]

7 minutes ago, Mister Woof said:

It's pretty unlikely they'll perform worse than current offerings, so barring some disastrous design flaw, it should still be worthwhile even before Tech Jesus reviews.

 

That said, of course wait for tests and never pre-order.

But guessing here doesn't seem to be too large a gamble.

There does seem to be a bunch of arguments to that effect. Will amphere be not horrendously  awful when compared to big Navi? Probably.  AMD has little reason to go too far ahead of AMD.  Nvidia seems a least to be delivering more performance at lower price than expected.  They might even win. There isn’t just one other competitor come the end of 2020 though.  There a three.  Microsoft (XboxX), Sony (PS5), and AMD(big Navi) and any of them has the capacity to break this.  A pre order before the other stuff even comes out is more or less a wager that amphere will beat or match all three others.  It’s not impossible, if the stats we have been shown hold up to independent testing. So chances aren’t zero.  They appear to be in line with minimum previously stated expectations from AMD.  The phrase “ double the 5700x” was used on “Moore’s law is dead” several times, which is right in line with what the 3090 seems to be able to do.  Amphere has some interesting specialist bits that may prove useful, but only may.  Big ray tracing, dlss2, and this cpu avoiding storage call are all interesting.  They have to be implemented in games though.  If they’re not they’re useless. 

[Bombastinator]

16 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

Sapphire disagrees...

 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

Not quite. That’s air blowing into where part of where the cpu cooler is.  The modified graphic would only work if there was no PCB at all.  Sapphire also blew all down as well.  I don’t quite get the “blow part of it up” thing.  There may be a reason though.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

1 minute ago, Bombastinator said:

Not quite. That’s air blowing into where part of where the cpu cooler is.  The modified graphic would only work if there was no PCB at all.  Sapphire also blew all down as well.  I don’t quite get the “blow part of it up” thing.  There may be a reason though.

Sapphire's design is almost the same as the 3000 "mixed" fans designs, the only difference is they do it with a push fan instead of a pull fan...

[Bombastinator]

16 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

Sapphire's design is almost the same as the 3000 "mixed" fans designs, the only difference is they do it with a push fan instead of a pull fan...

True.  Definition of “down” Gets confused if the card is flipped.  I suddenly wonder if it’s a patent avoidance action.  If sapphire or whomever has that system patented Nvidia would have to flip the fan to get around it. 

Edited September 4, 2020 by Bombastinator

[KaitouX]

18 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

Sapphire's design is almost the same as the 3000 "mixed" fans designs, the only difference is they do it with a push fan instead of a pull fan...

And the 3070 is basically the same as the Sapphire, as it doesn't have the fan in the back.

14 hours ago, KaitouX said:

And as far as I have seen many AIB models also have holes in the backplate showing the heatsink, so that might be pretty common this gen.

[Mister Woof]

30 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

There does seem to be a bunch of arguments to that effect. Will amphere be not horrendously  awful when compared to big Navi? Probably.  AMD has little reason to go too far ahead of AMD.  Nvidia seems a least to be delivering more performance at lower price than expected.  They might even win. There isn’t just one other competitor come the end of 2020 though.  There a three.  Microsoft (XboxX), Sony (PS5), and AMD(big Navi) and any of them has the capacity to break this.  A pre order before the other stuff even comes out is more or less a wager that amphere will beat or match all three others.  It’s not impossible, if the stats we have been shown hold up to independent testing. So chances aren’t zero.  They appear to be in line with minimum previously stated expectations from AMD.  The phrase “ double the 5700x” was used on “Moore’s law is dead” several times, which is right in line with what the 3090 seems to be able to do.  Amphere has some interesting specialist bits that may prove useful, but only may.  Big ray tracing, dlss2, and this cpu avoiding storage call are all interesting.  They have to be implemented in games though.  If they’re not they’re useless. 

I wouldn't include consoles in the equation - people who buy expensive gpus and people who buy consoles aren't really generally in the same market - and the even if they are, the capability of each hardware isn't the deciding factor.

 

I know you believe they do, but I disagree and really think you're in the minority. People by and large who were going to buy a ps5 were gonna buy a ps5 no matter how good or bad ampere or big navi is, and people who were gonna buy big navi or ampere weren't suddenly going to abandon pc for console if the console hardware was better.

 

The demographics just don't really coexist. You're either in the console for the exclusives/platform, or you're not, and pc gpus are irrelevant.

 

It really is just as long as ampere performs better than it's predecessor for less money, and if it's competitive with big navi. Consoles don't fit in the equation.

[straight_stewie]

2 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

Hehe.  I am amused by The differentiation between exaggerating to the point of lying vs to the point of marketing. 

Glad someone got a chuckle out of that  

[Bombastinator]

44 minutes ago, Mister Woof said:

I wouldn't include consoles in the equation - people who buy expensive gpus and people who buy consoles aren't really generally in the same market - and the even if they are, the capability of each hardware isn't the deciding factor.

 

I know you believe they do, but I disagree and really think you're in the minority. People by and large who were going to buy a ps5 were gonna buy a ps5 no matter how good or bad ampere or big navi is, and people who were gonna buy big navi or ampere weren't suddenly going to abandon pc for console if the console hardware was better.

 

The demographics just don't really coexist. You're either in the console for the exclusives/platform, or you're not, and pc gpus are irrelevant.

 

It really is just as long as ampere performs better than it's predecessor for less money, and if it's competitive with big navi. Consoles don't fit in the equation.

It’s a good question: will people flip?  Some won’t for sure. But what percentage will? The thing about questions like this is they’re partially testable.  Doing things like this is bog standard market research.  Just because neither of us know doesn’t mean there aren’t people who have a pretty good idea what the answer is.   I’d bet there are whole departments at microsoft, Sony, nvidia, and AMD that have data.  And if there aren’t there probably should be.  Moneyball has been everywhere for a very long time now. 

[Mister Woof]

22 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

It’s a good question: will people flip?  Some won’t for sure. But what percentage will? The thing about questions like this is they’re partially testable.  Doing things like this is bog standard market research.  Just because neither of us know doesn’t mean there aren’t people who have a pretty good idea what the answer is.   I’d bet there are whole departments at microsoft, Sony, nvidia, and AMD that have data.  And if there aren’t there probably should be.  Moneyball has been everywhere for a very long time now. 

Few.

 

Generally speaking, console players and pc players aren't the same people.

 

One thing to consider is the Microsoft Xbox Gamepass for PC.

 

If Microsoft thinks that gamers are choosing between PC and Xbox, then why are they providing this service that effectively removes Xbox exclusivity?

 

You would think they would keep the exclusivity to encourage gamers to choose Xbox over PC, but they aren't.

 

 

As it stands, you can play all the Xbox games on PC, and it's obvious that Microsoft knows pc and console gamers aren't the same market, and by providing pc games access to the Xbox library, they'll just get more subscriptions than that would if they didn't open it up to pc gamers, since pc gamers weren't going to buy consoles anyway.

[Bombastinator]

2 hours ago, Mister Woof said:

Few.

 

Generally speaking, console players and pc players aren't the same people.

 

One thing to consider is the Microsoft Xbox Gamepass for PC.

 

If Microsoft thinks that gamers are choosing between PC and Xbox, then why are they providing this service that effectively removes Xbox exclusivity?

 

You would think they would keep the exclusivity to encourage gamers to choose Xbox over PC, but they aren't.

 

 

As it stands, you can play all the Xbox games on PC, and it's obvious that Microsoft knows pc and console gamers aren't the same market, and by providing pc games access to the Xbox library, they'll just get more subscriptions than that would if they didn't open it up to pc gamers, since pc gamers weren't going to buy consoles anyway.

We can have opinions all we want.  Data is data though, and I suspect the answer to this one has been known for years by all companies involved.  Us mushroom people have one point of reference, which is Nvidia.  It’s not really a no or a yes though because it could mean a lot of things.  More will be revealed in the coming months I suspect. 

[leadeater]

3 hours ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

Sapphire disagrees...

Nice, that's actually really cool they did that. For cooling the GPU that is actually better 

[SpaceGhostC2C]

20 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Nice, that's actually really cool they did that. For cooling the GPU that is actually better 

Could only find it for HBM cards (Vega, R9 Fury). Not sure if it's related to the PCB being shorter or just coincidence.

[DragonTamer1]

3 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

  I don’t quite get the “blow part of it up” thing.  There may be a reason though.

I think the choice to have a fan pulling air through the fins is more interesting than them cutting down the PCB to put a fan there in the first place.

 

Most fans can't maintain as high pressure differential while pulling air through something as they can pushing air through something. The fan design on the 3080 and 3090 are very different though so maybe nvidia found a design that can mitigate this.

 

If I had to guess as to why they did this, I would say that it is a noise thing. They can run the fans faster for a lower noise level because the fan blades are causing less buffeting because the air they are pulling from is less dense to begin with. The fins could also help generate more laminar flow into the fan which should reduce the nose further.

[Ankerson]

7 hours ago, valdyrgramr said:

Only problem I have with it is the fact that Nvidia sponsored it, and that's why he was "allowed" to test early.   He then failed to dismiss a bias by implying his word alone would do that.   That's not how that works.  I'm curious as to others testing their 2080 Ti against the 3080 in all of the games.

 

That's what I am interested in also, all what DF did was at 4K with a 3080 .... And not with a 2080Ti to compare to....

 

And he didn't run the Metro Exodus Benchmark so we could see the framerates...... Interesting...

 

So I will be waiting to see a lot from the 3080 and 3070....... And at 1440P...

 

 

[BTGbullseye]

Any which way you slice it, the 3080 is going to significantly outperform the 2080TI in every way, and at a much lower price.

 

RDNA2 is probably going to be competitive in both performance and price, but I have a feeling it'll have much fewer features. AMD's driver software will look significantly better though. (and won't require an internet connection for full use)

[Valentyn]

2080Ti owners after the announcement and DF video 
 

 

[ewitte]

18 hours ago, HumdrumPenguin said:

There is no way I’d go from 11gb vram to a more capable card with less vram. I already cap that in a few games at 3440x1440 and 4k res (monitor and tv connected to my pc). The only worthy upgrade is the 3090 right now, but I’d be paying for a lot of that vram that would go completely unused in the lifespan the card would have in my hands. I guess it’s waiting time until the 3080 Ti comes out for USD 999. Back to trashing money on my audiophile paranoia. 

Hold off 16/20GB cards will come. IDK I went from a 1080TI to a RTX 2080 it has been slightly faster in anything I do.  I had the same concerns.  At the time I was running 2560x1440 but its now 3440x1440.

 

Not even considering the 3090.  I'd rather have a 20GB 3080.

[Lord Megadrive]

On 9/2/2020 at 10:35 PM, Bombastinator said:

Got that digital foundry video pushed on me earlier.  It bugged me.

The only time ive seen another video with this person is for the Mac Pro launch.  

Dude went on at length about how he wouldn’t talk up a card and then did exactly that.  For even longer.  He did that for the Mac Pro too.  
 

I got so bored with it I skipped to the numbers, except there sort of weren’t any. 
 

The problem with first day release stuff like this is the stuff is passed out by the marketing team, and marketing teams like reliability.  He does seem to provide reliable marketing for marketing departments.  He loved all over the Mac Pro too. 
 

Me I’m not buying anything on that say so.

 

Is this dude ultra respected or something? because it felt just fairly Schill like. 

Richard Leadbetter has been a gaming journalist in the uk since the mid 80’s he used to write for Computer & Video Games and other Future/Emap publications.  I used to find his reviews fairly spot on and I would say he’s respected within his field. 

[HumdrumPenguin]

On 9/4/2020 at 6:24 AM, ewitte said:

Hold off 16/20GB cards will come. IDK I went from a 1080TI to a RTX 2080 it has been slightly faster in anything I do.  I had the same concerns.  At the time I was running 2560x1440 but its now 3440x1440.

 

Not even considering the 3090.  I'd rather have a 20GB 3080.

I went from the 1080 to the 2080 Ti, otherwise the performance jump wouldn’t be significant. I was capping on 8gb vram before constantly. And yeah, I’ll be waiting on those cards with more vram. It will likely be the 3080 Ti at around USD 1000 that I’ll end up going with, assuming the leak was accurate.