C'mon Team Linus! Help an IT instructor out!

[USMCallinan]

4 hours ago, WereCatf said:

Mate, you keep jumping from one thing to another and being like an Energizer-bunny. Do you have an actual, practical example on how they could make any of this entertaining enough to be a good fit for the channel? You have not yet given anything on how to make it fit.

 

Also, about cherry-picking things like you did in the quoted part here: only IT-pros that do some work related to networking need such basic knowledge, so it's not relevant to any IT-jobs that don't deal with such.

I understand how that may seem like jumping around, but to me, this is a basic It concept that EVERYONE should know...  

Not to talk trash or degrade anyone else... I just feel like Linus could supplement this with a solid foundation in IT overall.

 

Financial gain = entertaining ALL day long...         IT colleges and tech schools make 500 million a year in the US...  (partly from the US completely SUCKING at professional IT education in formal 4 year colleges..)

[zeusthemoose]

18 minutes ago, USMCallinan said:

I also think it would be fun for Linus to create an "education" branch to his videos....   "Hey, do you want to learn what ACTIVE DIRECTORY is and how to use it? GO HERE!"  Most instructors you find on youtube/Udemy are **BORING**AS**SHIT**..   It doesn't have to be this way.

That’s what techquickie is for. They summarize the most important parts of common tech questions/things in general in a fun easy to understand way.

[USMCallinan]

4 hours ago, WereCatf said:

Mate, you keep jumping from one thing to another and being like an Energizer-bunny. Do you have an actual, practical example on how they could make any of this entertaining enough to be a good fit for the channel? You have not yet given anything on how to make it fit.

 

Also, about cherry-picking things like you did in the quoted part here: only IT-pros that do some work related to networking need such basic knowledge, so it's not relevant to any IT-jobs that don't deal with such.

"only IT-pros that do some work related to networking need such basic knowledge"...  
If you don't understand the basics, in my opinion, you're at an extreme disadvantage. 

 

3 hours ago, zeusthemoose said:

That’s what techquickie is for. They summarize the most important parts of common tech questions/things in general in a fun easy to understand way.

Majo

 

3 hours ago, zeusthemoose said:

That’s what techquickie is for. They summarize the most important parts of common tech questions/things in general in a fun easy to understand way.

I don't think anyone who has responded here is incorrect! 

I'm not a master in "all things IT" either... 
BUT...   My only point is that the basics are hurting......    that's a fact...   Yes, you're right in assuming that professions that are siloed in the IT world... and they may not be up to date on such basics...   but from a teacher point of view, my hope is that everyone understands these basics.

[Dutch_Master]

Well, I got Comptia A+, and CDCP, but no offers so far. Mind, I'm from the "making-the-Millennials" generation and have a previous career in Public Transport. IT-employers want folk with (loads of) experience and if you don't have 'provable' experience in IT, you're not gonna get it as no-one is gonna hire you   And yet, the industry is complaining bitterly (mostly at the educational system) for not providing enough people with (relevant) IT skills and an empty pool of the same. Still, no-one is even considering hiring someone with basic IT cert's making a career switch

[USMCallinan]

Just now, Dutch_Master said:

Well, I got Comptia A+, and CDCP, but no offers so far. Mind, I'm from the "making-the-Millennials" generation and have a previous career in Public Transport. IT-employers want folk with (loads of) experience and if you don't have 'provable' experience in IT, you're not gonna get it as no-one is gonna hire you   And yet, the industry is complaining bitterly (mostly at the educational system) for not providing enough people with (relevant) IT skills and an empty pool of the same. Still, no-one is even considering hiring someone with basic IT cert's making a career switch

Interesting theory. If you'd like me to coach you on how to interview, let me know. 

[The_russian]

Just now, USMCallinan said:

Interesting theory. If you'd like me to coach you on how to interview, let me know. 

It’s not bad interviewing skills, I’m in a similar position and for the position I am looking at, everyone wants a minimum of 2 years experience. And yet the industry is complaining there aren’t enough knowledgeable people.

[USMCallinan]

1 minute ago, The_russian said:

It’s not bad interviewing skills, I’m in a similar position and for the position I am looking at, everyone wants a minimum of 2 years experience. And yet the industry is complaining there aren’t enough knowledgeable people.

So you're in the same boat of "I have a whole lot of knowledge but not IT experience?" 
Let me know! 
There are ways to navigate those interview situations. 
@The_Russian I'm assuming you have at least A+?

[Dutch_Master]

42 minutes ago, USMCallinan said:

Interesting theory. If you'd like me to coach you on how to interview, let me know. 

Thx for the offer. The problem isn't the interview, it's the invitation to the interview. I simply don't get them, based on my resume. Once I'd shown up cold with a company that builds servers (and installs them at customers) and asked if they had suitable positions I could apply for. They said they had and the HR guy asked me to send him my resume. I called him a week later and he promised a reply next Monday (which I got). I was rejected. Probably my size (I'm Anthony-sized ), but I also have a hole in my resume where I wasn't working, awaiting further training (non-IT related).

 

edit: I have the 901/902 Comptia A+, with 902 taken the last day before retirement by PV. That retirement was waaayyyy overdue, the whole course was really a "how do I click myself through ancient and totally obsolete Win-OS versions". As a Linux guy, the very first time I saw the Win-OS disk management tool was on that 902 exam

[The_russian]

2 minutes ago, USMCallinan said:

So you're in the same boat of "I have a whole lot of knowledge but not IT experience?" 
Let me know! 
There are ways to navigate those interview situations. 
@The_Russian I'm assuming you have at least A+?

Yeah I have an A+ along with some other certs, and I know it’s still possible to get a job without experience. The problem is most people don’t, so if they see experience needed and they don’t have it, they won’t even bother applying, let alone interviewing.

[USMCallinan]

Just now, The_russian said:

Yeah I have an A+ along with some other certs, and I know it’s still possible to get a job without experience. The problem is most people don’t, so if they see experience needed and they don’t have it, they won’t even bother applying, let alone interviewing.

Thats your problem, APPLY to everything... 
Im assuming you dont have Net+, Security+, CCNA or CySA+?  

The career is waiting. Stop being lazy. What's your next cert?

[The_russian]

1 minute ago, USMCallinan said:

Thats your problem, APPLY to everything... 
Im assuming you dont have Net+, Security+, CCNA or CySA+?  

The career is waiting. Stop being lazy. What's your next cert?

I’m not being lazy, right now I’m not applying because I’m still in school and haven’t gotten my CCNA yet, and I’m studying for the Security+. After that I will apply regardless of experience, within reason of course. That doesn’t change what I said earlier though, when people see applications that say experience needed, they won’t even try applying because they think that is a hard set requirement.

[USMCallinan]

4 minutes ago, The_russian said:

I’m not being lazy, right now I’m not applying because I’m still in school and haven’t gotten my CCNA yet, and I’m studying for the Security+. After that I will apply regardless of experience, within reason of course. That doesn’t change what I said earlier though, when people see applications that say experience needed, they won’t even try applying because they think that is a hard set requirement.

That's not an excuse.  KEEP APPLYING.    Get Your Network+ so you're not a fool in networking situations.

[LogicalDrm]

*** Several posts merged ***

 

Please use Edit and Multiquote functions rather than triple-post back to back.

[Froody129]

Seems like you've found an avenue for your own YouTube channel tbh. I don't think this is in the wheelhouse of LTT. They're not working in IT, so basic IT certs would mean nothing to them. 

 

If you have ideas for making things like you're talking about fun and interesting, go ahead and make your own channel. You could even turn it into something you do with your students. 

[WkdPaul]

6 hours ago, USMCallinan said:

Thats your problem, APPLY to everything... 
Im assuming you dont have Net+, Security+, CCNA or CySA+?  

The career is waiting. Stop being lazy. What's your next cert?

 

6 hours ago, USMCallinan said:

That's not an excuse.  KEEP APPLYING.    Get Your Network+ so you're not a fool in networking situations.

Seriously?

 

And you're a teacher?

[SansVarnic]

@USMCallinan Honestly I don't want to make this reply but I am getting a bit tired of seeing this ... continue.

 

Including and not including myself, I know many people that are not certified and are far more qualified to do the work you say people need to be certified on. Certification is just a minimum standard to meet and that standard isn't always a necessity. Spouting all this about getting certified is just a way to tell people to fall in line with what is generally accepted. I don't agree with this one bit, I get taking the classes and wanting to have a cert to show off that you "know" something but I also know more people that are certified and are the worst in their field, narrow minded and incapable of following up or following through on the theories or have a lack in developing some understanding past what they are taught in school by the individual teaching the class.

 

Now this is in no way an insult to you, but if you are calling yourself a teacher or professor in the is field you should also be taking the position that a certification is only the start not the Be-All and End-All of the profession. You strike me as the type that teaches that certification IS the Be-All and End-All of the profession.   

 

I suggest to you [if you don't already] start opening yourself up to concept I just laid out. I didn't allow my teachers to limit my thinking in the same manner you have done in this thread. BTW I was Homeschooled 7-12th and was given the opportunity to see a much larger picture in learning than I ever did in the public setting and then turned around and challenged my professors in college to educate me to the highest expectation with the goal to open to my eyes beyond limiting myself to an accepted standard. I was known to call out professors for teaching limitations and they didn't like me very well for, lol, I just told them it was personal problem on their end.

 

Your initial opening comment was in some way expected and understandable as you and many others can appreciate the need to have that cert in hand to prove they have the background to give the instruction they provide. After that, subsequent comments just sadden me in the fear you would take the path you did. Certs aren't all that they are ... given to in value as they ought to have. 

 

Lastly this debate has pros and cons and both sides of the argument have valid and constructive points but taking one side over the other is a fallacy and I can both argue for having and not having a cert in any area of study. Taking the position that one needs to be certified to be accepted is seriously flawed since we all know better, including yourself.

 

Apologies for the lengthy comment.

Edited May 22, 2020 by SansVarnic

[CCMTTECH]

13 hours ago, USMCallinan said:

You're absolutely right! This topic can be REALLY dry and boring! As an instructor, my classes are NEVER dry and boring! (NO BS, my students are motivated!) But...     topics such as A+ networking and "printers" (laser printers specifically) can be made fun by a thorough explanation and constant reiteration of the need in the IT world. 

 

I also think it would be fun for Linus to create an "education" branch to his videos....   "Hey, do you want to learn what ACTIVE DIRECTORY is and how to use it? GO HERE!"  Most instructors you find on youtube/Udemy are **BORING**AS**SHIT**..   It doesn't have to be this way.

 

Realistically, how many IT pros can say "Hey! an IP address of 192.168.5.135 /25 is in the second network with a network address of 192.168.5.128 and a broadcast address of 192.168.5.255" and really understand what those numbers mean?

Professor Messer videos are great for CompTIA exams.

[IkeaGnome]

14 hours ago, USMCallinan said:

My  suggestion was only to give info to people who watch LTT and are trying to get into the IT world without previous experience...   

If you're already making them watch the videos for class, wouldn't watching the evolution of where they started in the videos and where they are now show that pretty well? Or is that "too far away from book learning" for formal education?

[CCMTTECH]

43 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

@USMCallinan Honestly I don't want to make this reply but I am getting a bit tired of seeing this ... continue.

 

Including and not including myself, I know many people that are not certified and are far more qualified to do the work you say people need to be certified on. Certification is just a minimum standard to meet and that standard isn't always a necessity. Spouting all this about getting certified is just a way to tell people to fall in line with what is generally accepted. I don't agree with this one bit, I get taking the classes and wanting to have a cert to show off that you "know" something but I also know more people that are certified and are the worst in their field, narrow minded and incapable of following up or following through on the theories or have a lack in developing some understanding past what they are taught in school by the individual teaching the class.

 

Now this is in no way an insult to you, but if you are calling yourself a teacher or professor in the is field you should also be taking the position that a certification is only the start not the Be-All and End-All of the profession. You strike me as the type that teaches that certification IS the Be-All and End-All of the profession.   

 

I suggest to you [if you don't already] start opening yourself up to concept I just laid out. I didn't allow my teachers to limit my thinking in the same manner you have done in this thread. BTW I was Homeschooled 7-12th and was given the opportunity to see a much larger picture in learning than I ever did in the public setting and then turned around and challenged my professors in college to educate me to the highest expectation with the goal to open to my eyes beyond limiting myself to an accepted standard. I was known to call out professors for teaching limitations and they didn't like me very well for, lol, I just told them it was personal problem on their end.

 

Your initial opening comment was in some way expected and understandable as you and many others can appreciate the need to have that cert in hand to prove they have the background to give the instruction they provide. After that, subsequent comments just sadden me in the fear you would take the path you did. Certs aren't all that they are ... given to in value as they ought to have. 

 

Lastly this debate has pros and cons and both sides of the argument have valid and constructive points but taking one side over the other is a fallacy and I can both argue for having and not having a cert in any area of study. Taking the position that one needs to be certified to be accepted is seriously flawed since we all know better, including yourself.

 

Apologies for the lengthy comment.

I enjoyed reading your post.  It is well thought out and written.  I look at the certifications as a starting point.  All it the certification implies is exposure to contents of the cert itself.  A certification is doesn't replace knowledge and/or experience.  It a point on a resume or degree on the wall.  After all, would you go to a doctor, nurse, or lawyer who didn't have a licence, board certification or whatever standard set?

[spartaman64]

if you are looking for an entry level job at geek squad or something then sure A+ is good/required to have but beyond that its barely even considered. and since linus is probably not considering becoming a geek squad employee i dont see what benefit it will give him

[leadeater]

18 hours ago, USMCallinan said:

CompTIA A+, Network+ and Security+

Honestly, as someone who works in IT, all 3 of those really don't have much value. Only weird stickler employers care about those, everyone else basically takes no notice of them. I got my A+ during high school as it was an offered class and legitimately nobody ever has cared about it, asked if I had it or listed it as a requirement.

 

Industry experience is much more important long term, if A+ or Network+ helps you get that first job then great and that's about as best as I view those certs. After that point it's lesser to experience.

 

There are certs I do take notice of but they aren't entry level certs and you are required to re-certify every few years.

 

Speaking as a Systems Engineer who only has an expired CCNA from 2009/2010 and aforementioned A+ from I think 2004/2005. Cert collectors with no experience who don't actually know what they are doing are the worst, nothing pains me more than to see someone with a cert for something not knowing what they are doing for the thing they are certified in.

[leadeater]

17 hours ago, Dutch_Master said:

And yet, the industry is complaining bitterly (mostly at the educational system) for not providing enough people with (relevant) IT skills and an empty pool of the same. Still, no-one is even considering hiring someone with basic IT cert's making a career switch

That's a long standing issue in the IT industry, complaining there isn't enough people in the field but then refusing entry to people wanting to get in to it because you don't have 3 or 5 years experience, and that's for basic service desk positions. Why do almost all job advertisements for career entry positions have these requirements, these aren't coming from the technical managers either. HR systems and processes are just fundamentally broken for entry IT positions, other previous job experience just doesn't apply beyond "this person can actually turn up for work".

 

There's really obvious potential solutions to these problems, employers work with education institutions and have apprenticeships and internships along with final year projects. Where I studied and got my degree that was part of it and that meant when I graduated I had existing experience and I had a real project for a real client which meant I was infinitely more employable than other graduates from courses that did not have this. Employment rates for graduates of my course is much higher and takes way less time to get a job and most importantly you actually get an interview most of the time.

[IkeaGnome]

32 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Speaking as a Systems Engineer who only has an expired CCNA from 2009/2010 and aforementioned A+ from I think 2004/2005. Cert collectors with no experience who don't actually know what they are doing are the worst, nothing pains me more than to see someone with a cert for something not knowing what they are doing for the thing they are certified in.

Just like one of our IT guys... Took the tests online to get his "ASE Master mechanic" certificate that anyone can go get. Practically an open book test and now he tries to tell us mechanics how to fix mining equipment that has nothing to do with automotive. Most certs don't mean anything once you get into a field. For the most part they get you into the field to get experience. A cert tells you that you have to use a 5/8 socket to remove a bolt. Experience tells you that 16mm works just as well if it's a 6 point. 12 point usually wants to try to slip off. 

[rcorkum]

Comptia certs are a joke really a+ it should be called screwdriver 101. and the prices, I am a certified electronic engineering technician, with certs in plc programming and mil grade soldering with no a+ also been sysadmin and been dabling in pc programming and linux for more than 30 years. now. with no a+ cert or willing to spend those bills should I be denied a job where I am not qualified to turn an fing screw. please don't let common sense slap ya silly, btw I my it prof gave me 100% since I fixed his network, rebuilt all his pc's for free, so much the local school tech union showed up at the door was wondering why they had no work sent to them for the past 6 months and filed a complaint because I wasn't certified  that tell you what i think of certs?

 

my moto, fix it once, fix it right.

[SansVarnic]

7 hours ago, CCMTTECH said:

I enjoyed reading your post.  It is well thought out and written.  I look at the certifications as a starting point.  All it the certification implies is exposure to contents of the cert itself.  A certification is doesn't replace knowledge and/or experience.  It a point on a resume or degree on the wall.

I agree and thank you for the compliment.

7 hours ago, CCMTTECH said:

 After all, would you go to a doctor, nurse, or lawyer who didn't have a licence, board certification or whatever standard set?

Kind of comparing apples to oranges here, but to answer the question, I would not.

A medical degree or a bar exam is far more intensive and thorough than a computer engineering degree, programming or language certification. I did make sure to include the point of both sides of the argument just for this type question though. I can argue just as strongly for the need of a cert over not having one. /shrug

 

The over all point of my comment (I am sure you got it but just incase for someone else that reads this) was to convey how ignorant and misconceived it is to only really on what certs one may have or not have [in the field of electronics] to base how reliable they are in their understanding. The OP is too focused on the "tunnel vision" of having a cert over the fact that he recognizes LTT's ability to pass on knowledge. To focused on what they feel they have over what they already have that over-shadows their conceived notion of the needed standard. Its kinda funny that OP openly recognized LTT's level of knowledge and recommend the channel but then downplays it by pointing out and basically demanding that LTT gets those certs out for everyone to see. Honestly why? why does LTT need to throw those out to show off? IMO it would be little the LTT Team to do so and make them look smug. The point is to provide solid and educational content, not to throw up the certs and pretty much tell that they know what they are talking about and that they are correct by what they are saying. I know that Linus is not like that as he has pointed he doesnt want to be that or appear that way.

 

I agree that getting certified in your field of study is a good thing up to a point but at what end is that any good? As @leadeater pointed out the certs hold only the value one puts into it. 

In my personal experience, I held certs for what I did but I was valued more, not for my certs, by my employer(s) because I was able to build on and expand on those certs and not only overshadowing but providing more value in my work by applying the experience, knowledge and understanding of what I did by giving back improved methods and modeling that I was able to pass on that improved proficiency, efficiency, lowering liability and securing better safe habits for our employees, I basically wrote the book on how our company operated. My experiences quickly overshadowed my training in a very short amount of time as the training material held very little application to what I was doing. (apologies for tooting my horn a bit and going off on a tangent...)

 

Hopefully that makes my position a bit clearer.

 

TLDL: Certs are good to have but not necessary to be relied on.